Most impressive sweep: Rafa clay 2010 or Nole hc 2011

Most impressive sweep:Rafa clay 2010 or Nole hd 2011?

  • Total voters
    133
  • Poll closed .
namelessone said:
The point you seem to be missing is that those players, Ferrer,Verdasco,Soderling, Fed/Almagro to a lesser degree WERE the best players in CC season 2010. He beat the best from that year.

Ferrer finished clay season a respectable 28-6(losing only to Nadal,Fed, Soderling and to RG surprise Melzer).

Verdasco finished clay season with 22-7(losing to Nadal,Ferrer,Almagro and ******* away some matches against Robredo and Gasquet).

Soderling made Barca final,RG finals, Bastaad finals and finished with a 15-5 on clay that year despite having some issues.

Federer finished clay season with a 10-4.

Djoker finished clay in 2010 with 12-4.

Now let's look at the deities your propose to push Nadal on clay in 2010:

1)Djokovic. Djokovic was soundly beaten on clay by Nadal in the past and couldn't beat a Nadal with physical issues in 2009. Nadal of 2010 was quite close to his 2008 form on clay. You think Novak could have clipped his wings when he has NEVER beaten him on clay?

2)DelPo. Why put delpo here as a threat? Just cause he has a RG SF? Melzer also has a RG SF. DelPo almost beat Fed in five, Melzer came back from two down to defeat the Djoker, a very competent CC'er by your assumption. Melzer was better than Djoker at this point, in RG.

3)Federer. You said so yourself, his worst surface and past his prime. Why is Fed such a massive threat to Nadal on clay in 2010? Don't get me wrong, he is one of those that has the goods but in 2010 he was past his prime and most Fed fans have given up the thought of Fed beating Nadal on clay ever again(or at least in RG).

4)Soderling. The boogie man. So now he doesn't count cause it was a final? Come on.

5)Davydenko - knows how to push Nadal but he is 3-0 against Nadal on clay.

To me the only one with a real shot to push Nadal in 2010 on clay is a very motivated Djoker, as he is the only one with the youth and game to do so and even then Nadal is a big favourite in this match up.

The funny bit to me when criticizing Nadal's streak(he didn't beat this guy or that guy) is that Nadal has utterly defeated almost everyone that has been thrown at him over the years on clay so it's not like he is manouvering around to get streaks or such. The guy has 6 losses in 6 years on clay and has a 81 streak match on this surface. He absolutely owns this surface.

I've already asked this question many times but no one will answer:

What is a tough draw for Nadal on clay with the current seeding system?
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Ok, I'm not into long discussions today. I said what I thought: Nadal's achievement is better historywise, Djokovic's wins were more impressive, though.

Only 1 point: Djokovic actually plays Nadal well on clay, you mentioned 2009 as being Nadal's injured-packed year, well didn't Djokovic win a set 6-2 against Nadal in Hamburg in 2008? He was also the only player who actually had a couple of set points against Nadal at the French open in 2008, arguably Nadal's best clay tournament ever. And huge LOL at Melzer beaing a better clay courter than Del Potro in 2009 because of his 1 fluke win over Djokovic (who actually led 2-0 in sets and was a break up in the third). Del Po at the 2009 French had some really impressive wins and pushed Federer to 5 sets.

What's a tough draw for Nadal on clay?

Dunno, but I like to see him face Djokovic ONCE on clay this year (given Djokovic doesn't play for 4 hours the day before).
 
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DjokerIsTheBest said:
More guys would not win titles. Federer would take them all.
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are you an idiot? Without nadal, djokovic would have had 1-2 FOs, same with federer and söderling maybe would have won last year if not for nadal.

djoker's only Masters on clay was achieved during the absence of Nadal. ferrer would have had at least 2 masters on clay..verdasco at least 1.

Federer didn't even get to play nadal this year...how could you claim he would have won them all?


theory holds: without Nadal, there would have been multiple winners on clay.
 
The-Champ said:
are you an idiot? Without nadal, djokovic would have had 1-2 FOs, same with federer and söderling maybe would have won last year if not for nadal.

djoker's only Masters on clay was achieved during the absence of Nadal. ferrer would have had at least 2 masters on clay..verdasco at least 1.

Federer didn't even get to play nadal this year...how could you claim he would have won them all?


theory holds: without Nadal, there would have been multiple winners on clay.
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Now, which French Opens would Djokovic win, exactly?

Cause I see:

2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 French Opens - Federer
2010 French Open - without Nadal in the draw, maybe Fed would push himself a little harder OR depends on who Soderling would face in the final, the only 2 times he played in a Slam final he was crap so he'd have to face another crap player in the final.
 
tennis_pro said:
And paid a higher price for being a far worse hard courter. You can't have everything.

Players excel on hard courts cause there are far more tournaments compared to clay. Usually a typical top 20 pro out of 18 tournaments played a year participates in 4-5 tournies on clay, 11-12 on hard courts and 2 on grass.
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True...but...so what? Very few people excel in physics because it's hard and not money-rewarding but that doesn't make Einstein's theories less impressive. Would you consider it more impressive to become a NBA player just because millions of people around the world are trying to make it there?
 
The-Champ said:
are you an idiot? Without nadal, djokovic would have had 1-2 FOs, same with federer and söderling maybe would have won last year if not for nadal.

djoker's only Masters on clay was achieved during the absence of Nadal. ferrer would have had at least 2 masters on clay..verdasco at least 1.

Federer didn't even get to play nadal this year...how could you claim he would have won them all?


theory holds: without Nadal, there would have been multiple winners on clay.
Click to expand...

There have already been multiple winners: Federer, Soderling, Djokovic.
 
tennis_pro said:
Now, which French Open would Djokovic win, exactly?

Cause I see:

2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 French Opens - Federer
2010 French Open - without Nadal in the draw, maybe Fed would push himself a little harder OR depends on who Soderling would face in the final, the only 2 times he played in a Slam final he was crap so he'd have to face another crap player in the final.
Click to expand...

djokovic in 2008 FO would have won if not for Nadal. That federer in the final would probably suffer the same humiliating defeat.
 
Cassius Clay said:
True...but...so what? Very few people excel in physics because it's hard and not money-rewarding but that doesn't make Einstein's theories less impressive. Would you consider it more impressive to become a NBA player just because millions of people around the world are trying to make it there?
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, I would. Tennis is a rather medium-popular sport so being a top tennis player for a year is less impressive than being a top top basketball player for a year
 
The-Champ said:
djokovic in 2008 FO would have won if not for Nadal. That federer in the final would probably suffer the same humiliating defeat.
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THAT Federer would play a different ball game against Djokovic. It would something like 60-40 in favor of Federer

EVEN if Djokovic somehow beat Federer in 2008, where's his second French Open? And where's Soderling's French Open?
 
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tennis_pro said:
THAT Federer would play a different ball game against Djokovic. It's 60-40 to Federer that match

EVEN if Djokovic somehow beat Federer in 2008, where's his second French Open? And where's Soderling's French Open?
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söderling last year would have beaten any player on Nadal's draw...he was brilliant in that tournament.

I said, 1-2 FO for djokovic, but most certainly 1 though Djokovic of 2007 at the FO was pretty good too...who knows he might have beaten Federer in the final, if not for nadal.
 
The-Champ said:
söderling last year would have beaten any player on Nadal's draw...he was brilliant in that tournament.

I said, 1-2 FO for djokovic, but most certainly 1 though Djokovic of 2007 at the FO was pretty good too...who knows he might have beaten Federer in the final, if not for nadal.
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Dude, just no. Not only Djokovic doesn't beat Federer at the 2007 French Open, he also fails to do so at the 2008 French Open meeting. I'll make a thread so you can check the results.
 
Nadal's for sure. Joker was lucky with Nadal's injury at the AO.
 
tennis_pro said:
You can't really compare. We do know, that top football players f.e. get paid far more than top tennis players FOR A REASON.
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And that reason is that professional football makes tons of money and therefore the managers can afford to pay huge wages, but not because they are better athletes than Usain Bolt.
 
The-Champ said:
söderling last year would have beaten any player on Nadal's draw...he was brilliant in that tournament.

I said, 1-2 FO for djokovic, but most certainly 1 though Djokovic of 2007 at the FO was pretty good too...who knows he might have beaten Federer in the final, if not for nadal.
Click to expand...

The-Champ said:
yeah, i'll probably give the nod to federer in 2007 but 2008, Nole wins in straights..
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LOLLLLLL, contradict much? :)
 
DjokerIsTheBest said:
Nobody is undermining. They're just not as impressive as Nole's run so far. HC field is deeper.
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Sure, but Nole didn't play all the best HCs on his way to winning his titles. Which means that is a weak argument. I mean either you or someone else mentioned how last year in MC Verdasco bent over for Rafa in MC final, what about Murray at AO? Technically he's great on HCs, and should have been able to put up a good fight, but as usual on the big stage he folded and played a **** match. A lot of Novak's opponents were BS as well. The field example falls apart unless Novak played the best HCers at their best. It doesn't take away from his achievement, but is a poor argument when when it comes to whose streak was better.
 
nadalbestclass said:
Sure, but Nole didn't play all the best HCs on his way to winning his titles. Which means that is a weak argument. I mean either you or someone else mentioned how last year in MC Verdasco bent over for Rafa in MC final, what about Murray at AO? Technically he's great on HCs, and should have been able to put up a good fight, but as usual on the big stage he folded and played a **** match. A lot of Novak's opponents were BS as well. The field example falls apart unless Novak played the best HCers at their best. It doesn't take away from his achievement, but is a poor argument when when it comes to whose streak was better.
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Agreed Murray failed big time at the AO. But Novak beat Federer pretty badly and he was playing well. Moreover he beat Nadal playing the best HC tennis of his life twice in a row. That pretty much seals the deal for Djoker. Nadal was beating nobodies on clay.
 
nadalbestclass said:
Sure, but Nole didn't play all the best HCs on his way to winning his titles. Which means that is a weak argument. I mean either you or someone else mentioned how last year in MC Verdasco bent over for Rafa in MC final, what about Murray at AO? Technically he's great on HCs, and should have been able to put up a good fight, but as usual on the big stage he folded and played a **** match. A lot of Novak's opponents were BS as well. The field example falls apart unless Novak played the best HCers at their best. It doesn't take away from his achievement, but is a poor argument when when it comes to whose streak was better.
Click to expand...

So who the hell are the best hardcourters?
 
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I would say Clay by the gap with which Rafa dominated it. None of the matches ended in last set tie breakers.
Also 3 masterseries. Vs Nole's 2.

On the flip note Noles was extremely impressive given far more players are competitive on the surface and the competition is that much tighter. Only 1 of the top 5's best surface is clay. 4 of top 5 are better on HC then clay.
 
i have no problem with anyone who thinks that djokovic's streak is more impressive but to dismiss nadal's wins over soderling and federer is silly. Since when are del potro and davydenko a threat to nadal on clay? Thats just a comical argument
 
DjokerIsTheBest said:
Moreover he (Djokovic) beat Nadal playing the best HC tennis of his life twice in a row. .
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LOL what? Nadal playing the best tennis of his life in IW/Miami this year. You must be on some good stuff. Can I have what you're having? :twisted:

Truth is Nadal played CRAP all through 2011 (MC included).
Obviously Nadal 2008/Nadal 2010 >>>>> Nadal 2011. Hell, even the injured, mentally disturbed Nadal of 2009 was better than the current version.

So please Nadal was not even close to his best in IW/Miami, and so Djoker beat him comprehensively. ( This is not to say that Djokovic cannot handle a peak Nadal, but he didn't face one this year).
 
The competition on clay is not as tough as it is on HC.
Also Djoker beat Federer, Nadal and many other good players many times where they could all play good tennis and many sets he won by 6x0, 6x1.
To win a tournament on HC is harder due to competition and ability of most to play on the surface than to win on clay where only a few can play well.
 
TennisFan3 said:
LOL what? Nadal playing the best tennis of his life in IW/Miami this year. You must be on some good stuff. Can I have what you're having? :twisted:

Truth is Nadal played CRAP all through 2011 (MC included).
Obviously Nadal 2008/Nadal 2010 >>>>> Nadal 2011. Hell, even the injured, mentally disturbed Nadal of 2009 was better than the current version.

So please Nadal was not even close to his best in IW/Miami, and so Djoker beat him comprehensively. ( This is not to say that Djokovic cannot handle a peak Nadal, but he didn't face one this year).
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No He didn't, in fact He played better last year than this year in IW and Miami.
Last year he got outplayed, this year He got to the finals again.
Either you don't understand what Nadal says and He said how great He played or you don't know anything about tennis.
Any player can play their best and still lose a match, because it doesn't depend only on themselves, it's about match up.
 
They both are very impressive, while Nadal's sweep is more prestigious Nole's is more difficult to achieve because the field is much tougher on HC then on clay and he did beat Federer 3 times and Nadal 2 during these tournaments while Nadal in the clay sweep just beat Federer once and playing the finals against the likes of Ferrers and Verdascos.
 
TennisFan3 said:
LOL what? Nadal playing the best tennis of his life in IW/Miami this year. You must be on some good stuff. Can I have what you're having? :twisted:

Truth is Nadal played CRAP all through 2011 (MC included).
Obviously Nadal 2008/Nadal 2010 >>>>> Nadal 2011. Hell, even the injured, mentally disturbed Nadal of 2009 was better than the current version.

So please Nadal was not even close to his best in IW/Miami, and so Djoker beat him comprehensively. ( This is not to say that Djokovic cannot handle a peak Nadal, but he didn't face one this year).
Click to expand...

Just watch the matches. Nadal was playing amazing in the finals. His HC game has improved dramatically from even a year ago. The kind of tennis that led up to his USO victory and it makes sense since he is in his peak level now.
 
Both were impressive since Nadal was coming off injury, but Djoker's ability seems to have come out of nowhere and he beat a lot tougher opponents. He beat 16 slam and 9 slam winners in his run. I would say Nole is somewhat more impressive because there are more players who play HC better.
 
I would say Djokovic since...it was unexpected hence impressive. Nadal....he has been ploughing through clay tournies for five+ years.....so it is expected that he dominates. So less impressive as a tennis fan.

Defintly Nadal is impressive in achievement.....but in terms of unexpected I give Novak the nod.
 
li0scc0 said:
I don't think either streak is terribly impressive...what is more impressive to me is how Nadal followed up his Clay court streak by winning Wimbledon and the US Open in 2010.
If Djokovic follows up this Hard Court streak by winning the French AND Wimbledon, then, and only then, will I consider the feats to be equivalent.
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Agreed...

Happy for Djoker and his streak, but if he doesn't parlay it into huge results this year, it will be just that, a streak, soon forgotten.

And on a side note, I say Nadal's because clay is the most difficult surface where you need point construction and craft, not just ball bashing. Not to mention this is the beginning of the year and strange things often happen at the beginning of the year when everyone's coming off of vacation.
 
yes nadal was playing the best hardcourt tennis of his life in indian wells, serving like 40 percent
 
Nadal got to the finals of both IW and Miami, something he could not even do last year. I'd say that means he was playing quite well indeed, despite any ********* excuses of serve performance.
 
DjokerIsTheBest said:
Nadal got to the finals of both IW and Miami, something he could not even do last year. I'd say that means he was playing quite well indeed, despite any ********* excuses of serve performance.
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Yes, you are right, Nadal was playing great, in fact his performance was close to that of Djoker's in the finals (third set tiebreak). Therefore, Djoker's victory was not that impressive. Nadal obliterated almost every single contender on clay.
 
Cassius Clay said:
Yes, you are right, Nadal was playing great, in fact his performance was close to that of Djoker's in the finals (third set tiebreak). Therefore, Djoker's victory was not that impressive. Nadal obliterated almost every single contender on clay.
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So let's see Djoker beat a potential GOAT candidate playing GREAT as you said. Versus Nadal destroying CC nobodies bending over for him. And the latter is more impressive?? What are you smoking?
 
DjokerIsTheBest said:
Clay is easy for Nadal. It's not that impressive. He doesn't have to in fact play that great on clay since everybody else essentially stinks at it.
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It's easy because he owns everyone, not the other way round. He has trained hard to become the beast he is now and makes the rest of the players look like a bunch of losers. That's impressive even though he wins easily.
 
DjokerIsTheBest said:
The data we have now indicates he was routinely being beat on HC by both Fed, and Nadal. Now he's reversed that. He's been tough on Rafa on clay in the past. That bodes well for this year given the beatings he's given Nadal on slow clay like HC.
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Two 3-set matches are not beatings, if so, then Djokovic has never been tough on him on clay (including the Madrid semifinal).
 
Cassius Clay said:
Two 3-set matches are not beatings, if so, then Djokovic has never been tough on him on clay (including the Madrid semifinal).
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At the incredible level Nadal was playing at, specially compared to last year, they were beatings. I thought Novak had no chance with how well Nadal's ground game was going. After all look what Nadal did to the GOAT in the semis. He was on fire. But Novak was the man! Bending over on clay is not impressive to anyone, except maybe to Verdasco.
 
DjokerIsTheBest said:
At the incredible level Nadal was playing at, specially compared to last year, they were beatings. I thought Novak had no chance with how well Nadal's ground game was going. After all look what Nadal did to the GOAT in the semis. He was on fire. But Novak was the man! Bending over on clay is not impressive to anyone, except maybe to Verdasco.
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Lmao this is comical. He used to beat Rafa MUCH worse on HC. Now him in his "peak unstoppable" form, was pushed to a 3rd set tiebreak and "Wasn't sure if he would win till the last ball was struck." come on now. Im a Novak fan too but you guys are being outrageous.
 
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