DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
Huh? You didn't understand my post at all. Read it again and come back to me.
Most impressive sweep: Rafa clay 2010 or Nole hc 2011
- Thread starter Dutch-Guy
- Start date
Huh? You didn't understand my post at all. Read it again and come back to me.
Isn't it funny that you say the same thing Federer fans were saying from 2004-2007?
At least Federer's competition has slams. Nadal's competition has like a total of 0 slams (outside of Federer, who really doesn't count as Nadal's 'contemporary')
single_handed_champion
Professional
Similarly, everybody stinks on hardcourts right now except Novak. Rafa always played second fiddle to other aggressive players at these non-Slam events, Federer has rarely played worse, Murray was irrelevant all year. Care to name anybody else? Thought not.
Either you say that both Nadal and Djokovic were one-eyed kings in the land of the blind during their runs, or admit that (if you do believe Djokovic is such a blindingly brilliant force right now) Nadal's claycourt reign was not a cakewalk or a gimme or whatever other disparaging term you are capable of coming up with.
single_handed_champion
Professional
So Safin, Roddick, Hewitt were Federer's contemporaries. Hewitt won both his Slams before Federer won his first. Safin managed just one, Roddick squeezed one out just as Federer went on a rampage and never got close to another again.
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
Ummm, that was the point I was making. It's stupid to say either way - that the field stinks or player A is amazing. I was just countering his stupid logic will equal inaneness. It's the same old weak era contradiction rearing it's ugly head again. Only the results matter. So far Djoker is undefeated, beating Nadal and Federer along the way.
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
single_handed_champion
Professional
Do I need to remind you of all the bagels and breadsticks Djokovic handed out throughout his hardcourt season? To quality players as well. Smacks of bendingoveritis to me.
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
Yeah but against the other top two players? Ummm, no. Just no. Just watch the Nadal-Djoker finals and watch the Nadal-Verdasco final. Ummm, one is bending over, see if you can tell which one. Djoker doesn't have the rep yet that makes others bend over. Nadal and Fed do.
single_handed_champion
Professional
There ya go. The guy's worked for it (much like Federer). So according to you, the same thing might have been more impressive if Nadal had done it in, say 2005 or 2006?? But Djokovic is already a Slam champion and an established top player, so what gives?
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
He may be working for it, but he is not there yet. 2 slams at the AO is hardly in the league of Nadal or Federer. Djoker may get there one day, but players do not fear him the way they fear Nadal now or at one time Federer.
namelessone
Legend
It's hard to pick Djoker's run because it just seems so random and flukey, but then again, it was well-deserved, and he played amazing against Federer and Nadal, beating them a combined 5 times in a row (and I went to two of those matches). So I gave it to him.
I know what you mean, players just stumble over 24 consecutive win streaks all the time.
Cassius Clay
Banned
You are contradicting yourself. If clay is such a difficult surface to play on, then Nadal's achievements are more impressive, he managed to excel where nobody could.
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
No you can't seem to understand basic logic. Nadal may indeed be incredible on clay. But his opponents are incompetent. Therefore yes Nadal is great on clay, but his achievements are not as impressive given the lack of competition.
eidolonshinobi
Professional
Both are pretty impressive.
Cassius Clay
Banned
Sure, nobody wants to win clay tournaments, only Nadal is concerned, the rest don't even try, what for?
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
Oh sure they want to win them. They just suck at it. Because clay essentially removes shotmaking.
Cassius Clay
Banned
Yeah, every single player sucks on clay except for Nadal. What a coincidence!. Don't you think it's more plausible that everyone is good but Nadal is just too good for them?
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
It is difficult to say. With Federer and Djokovic not playing well, Nadal really had no competition at all in the clay season last year (except the Madrid final). I mean playing Verdasco in a Masters final, ROTFL!! However he was playing so extremely well I think he would have gone undefeated even if the real opponents had their sh1t together. Djokovic had much tougher competition on the hard courts this winter and was challenged much more. As far as level of play I would say equal though so I voted the last option.
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
No I don't. Thanks.
5555
Hall of Fame
You are delusional.
single_handed_champion
Professional
Yeah, shotmaking as in American-style big-serve+big-forehand. Hit one good shot and expect to win points outright or go completely to pieces if you don't.
Again, one guy's greatness and others' suckage are deeply interconnected.
Netzroller
Semi-Pro
Well that’s certainly a tough one...
I think Nole's performance seems bigger since it was very unexpected. Rafa has already been dominating the clay season for years. What he achieved last year is not so much different from what he had done before, people got used to it.
But nevertheless, I think the fact that he has been great in the past doesn’t devalue this particular run. So I voted for Rafa. The manner in which he dominated was absolutely impressive and I am pretty sure he would have crushed any other opponent as well. Not dropping a set in a GS and a Masters is ridiculous. He also won three consecutive Masters titles.
That so many people argue there is no competition on clay actually shows how dominant he was. If it wasn't for Rafa, I don’t believe there would be the same impression. Clay is not some kind of alien surface, a lot of the pros grew up it – it seems unlikely that the entire field happens to suck while the greatest clay courter ever is around (or call him the 2nd best if you believe Borg was better...).
I think Nole's performance seems bigger since it was very unexpected. Rafa has already been dominating the clay season for years. What he achieved last year is not so much different from what he had done before, people got used to it.
But nevertheless, I think the fact that he has been great in the past doesn’t devalue this particular run. So I voted for Rafa. The manner in which he dominated was absolutely impressive and I am pretty sure he would have crushed any other opponent as well. Not dropping a set in a GS and a Masters is ridiculous. He also won three consecutive Masters titles.
That so many people argue there is no competition on clay actually shows how dominant he was. If it wasn't for Rafa, I don’t believe there would be the same impression. Clay is not some kind of alien surface, a lot of the pros grew up it – it seems unlikely that the entire field happens to suck while the greatest clay courter ever is around (or call him the 2nd best if you believe Borg was better...).
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
obviously Nadal's. There is nowhere to go with that guy on clay.
Unless you're Robin Soderling
N
NadalAgassi
Guest
Seriously I am a Nadal fan but you dont really think this a strong clay court era do you. I actually wish it was a stronger clay court field since I would love to see Nadal taking down and apart much better clay courters than the current field presents, and I have full confidence he would. Still the only decent clay courter her faces is Federer and Djokovic when in the mood. The rest of them are jokes. Verdasco making the Monte Carlo final last year was one of the all time embarassments really. I dont even think Federer is a top 10 clay courter in the Open era yet he is the 2nd best clay courter of his era by far.
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Yeah, shotmaking as in American-style big-serve+big-forehand. Hit one good shot and expect to win points outright or go completely to pieces if you don't.
Again, one guy's greatness and others' suckage are deeply interconnected.
The funny thing is that nadal can now play that style as well and won the USO relatively easily using that style. He's the most flexible player on the tour right now in terms of varying style to suit surface.
According to *********s (prior to the match), Djokovic wasn't even supposed to win. But since he did, and it's excuses left and right.
A loss is a loss.
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
TheBoom
Hall of Fame
Isn't that one of the easiest feats in pro tennis?
Easier than donald young
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
Isn't that one of the easiest feats in pro tennis?
Not for peak Nadal
. He couldn't even take him out in straight sets on the slowest clay on earth!single_handed_champion
Professional
Not for peak Nadal
:roll: FAIL. He was talking about beating Murray in a final... Do read once in a while before going all berserk with your keyboard.
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
When was the last time Nadal beat Murray in a final?
single_handed_champion
Professional
Is that what you said? Here is your post, in case you forgot it in the 10 seconds since you hit submit.
Not for peak Nadal
Anyway, the last time he beat Murray in a final was Indian Wells 2009: 6-1, 6-2.
DjokerIsTheBest
Banned
Not really sure what you're getting at. I think the original post meant it's easy taking Murray out in general, not necessarily a final, despite that part being bolded too.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Nadal's better, because noone else has done it before.
But Rafa's cc 2011 sweep is going to be even greater with added Barcelona title
I hope so lol, but I doubt it's gonna happen this year.
nadalbestclass
Hall of Fame
I agree, and I'd rather not have it happen, because Rafa needs to stock up on energy for RG-Wimbly stretch. I think he has a REALLY good shot at picking up those two again.
glazkovss
Professional
I doubted too,
but looking at how he destroys Barcelona's field so far it is just like another week of practice for him.
Practice with additional confidence growth, points, prize money and joy of victories. Suddenly it looks like it was a good decision to play there. But we will see. He needs to avoid playing Djokovic as long as it is possible, because their potential math-up on clay promises to be
very demanding.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Nadal's better, because noone else has done it before.
But Rafa's cc 2011 sweep is going to be even greater with added Barcelona title
I've made a bet with some of my friends that Rafa will sweep the clay events this year again. MC, Barca, Madrid, Rome and FO. So, it's finanically beneficial for me that he wins them all.
billnepill
Hall of Fame
still, the poll suggests otherwise
Bud
Bionic Poster
Lol!
A poll is a popularity (or reverse-popularity) contest, not reality. Please get that straight.
If we simply crunch the numbers (which is objective), Nadal's accomplishment was more impressive.
5000 points > 4500 points
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billnepill
Hall of Fame
Hm, that is my point. The idea of which is better is subjective and cannot be decided upon.
dunno why people voted more in favor of Nole than the other two options combined. I think though that most people don't like Rafa's dominance on clay so they give it less value to make it less significant. Alternative reason is that Nole's sweep is more recent.
Bud
Bionic Poster
Sorry.. I thought you were making a case that Djokovic's accomplishment was more impressive, based on this silly TT poll
Many who voted FOR Djokovic were simply voting AGAINST Nadal (and probably vice versa to a lesser degree)
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