Most Overrated Player Outside of the Top 4?

jamesblakefan#1

jamesblakefan#1

G.O.A.T.
I know we've had an underrated thread here, but who's overrated/overhyped perennially? In order to keep the trolls away, I'll try to preference it by saying they can't be in the top 4. A few names, in no particular order:

1. JMDP - I like Delpo, but he's really not lived up to the hype that everyone had set for him off of his 09 USO run. I know the injuries have had something to do with it, the guy can't seem to stay healthy, but he also hasn't performed up to that 'best player outside of the top 4' title that most set for him. Since winning USO only 2 QFs and 0 SF/F in 8 slam appearances. I know he had Fed on the ropes at RG but he broke down there too, as he always seems to do lately against the big 4 in big matches. He's drifted into the overrated category now.

2. Gael Monfils - all we hear about is his talent and how if he just put his mind to it he could be one of the best in the world. The guy's been around for ages now, it's clear that no coach will ever get through to him that message and he personally cares more about being a showman than ever winning a major event.

3. Gasquet - similar to Monf, all we hear about is his talent, but it's obvious that he lacks the major weapons (outside of his BH) or mentality to every truly be great or live up to the expectations people set for him (he was Baby Fed before the new Baby Fed Dimitrov lol)

4. Raonic - the new flavor of the week/month/whatever on here, though people may have cooled on him a bit after Wimby. Can't believe people really looked at this guy as a major threat to NADAL ON CLAY. Raonic still young of course and has a lot of tennis ahead of him, but has been hyped well past his ranking and accomplishments and gets more love than a guy like Berdych who's accomplished double what he (Milos) has.

5. Gulbis - Plays one great match every 2 years, people hype him up based on said match, then he goes on to be mediocre for the next 11 months. Repeat this formula and you have Ernests Gulbis' career story. Enough said.

Others to mention - Brian Baker (from great story to people picking him to win every single tourney in the US this summer), David Nalbandian/Nikolay Davydenko (once great players now on the downside of their careers, yet still get mentioned as threats to the top 4 by some), Dimitrov (even though he's starting to find some good form the past few tourneys, he's still not nearly lived up to the ginormous hype people put on him).
 
Dimitrov! I don't know why people keep comparing him to Federer. Federer was far more accomplished at the same age. The only thing they have in common is that they are both tennis players with 1hb.
 
john isner

from what ive seen of his game, doesnt belong in the top 10

yet earlier in the year some demanded he be the "best of the rest" by the end of the season. far from
 
jamesblakefan#1 said:
1. JMDP - I like Delpo, but he's really not lived up to the hype that everyone had set for him off of his 09 USO run. I know the injuries have had something to do with it, the guy can't seem to stay healthy, but he also hasn't performed up to that 'best player outside of the top 4' title that most set for him. Since winning USO only 2 QFs and 0 SF/F in 8 slam appearances. I know he had Fed on the ropes at RG but he broke down there too, as he always seems to do lately against the big 4 in big matches. He's drifted into the overrated category now.
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Good thread - after reading your post, I have to agree that Delpo is definitely the most overrated.
 
Good list.

If you mean players people are still holding out big tournament wins for, I'd agree JMDP. But I really think it is hard to come back from that injury so I can't blast him for under-performing like some others on the list.

Some of the others (I'm talking to you Richard G.) had more hype for a long period initially (all the way back to early juniors and through at least a couple years of pro) but people no longer believe. The others, Raonic aside, I think people have moved on from. I used to think Gulbis could still turn it around but I don't anymore. He doesn't have it upstairs.

Of the list, JMDP seems to be the only player that had it in the head. Maybe Raonic -- need more time to tell. The other three are head cases.

I don't think Baker is overhyped at all. He was out for 6 years. It's remarkably how he has done this year. I don't think anyone thinks he's winning Masters 1000 events but he seems to be getting the most out of his game. Some of the others on your list could take some inspiration from him. IT'S NOT TOO LATE MONFILS !

I agree Grigor is not developing nearly as fast as people thought he might.

So I'd probably pick him as #1 currently overhyped and give JMDP a break.
 
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It's hard to say Delpo. He did win a slam and has had some injuries.

Based on hype? Hype vs. results - Raonic. The others have at least had their moments.
 
wait, i havent heard anyone speak very highly of delpo in a while. he may have been overrated after he won the USO, but seeing his form as of late(plateauing after getting back in the top ten), he has an unthreatening/stagnant aura about him, as if his recovery from injury stopped short.

i do however see people recalling alot of his pre-injury days from once in a while. people at times exaggerate his old abilities, but unless i've missed a thread, no one is really overrating delpo's ability as of right now.

i agree with the other 4 completely. although part of me is still holding out for gasquet.
 
Other than injuries I really don't see anybody on that list can be on top 4, replacing 3 of the 4 guys who won 30+ majors combined for almost a decade now. Even Delpo who won 1 major is a mere shadow of his former self after the surgery.
 
"people at times exaggerate his old abilities,"

I don't think it was exaggerated. He took Nadal apart in the semis USO 2009. It was a complete blowout. Then he beat 5x (or was it 6 ?) champ, 27 year old Fed. It was quite a performance. And he was 20. You could see more Majors in his future. Then the injury.
 
Tshooter said:
"people at times exaggerate his old abilities,"

I don't think it was exaggerated. He took Nadal apart in the semis USO 2009. It was a complete blowout. Then he beat 5x (or was it 6 ?) champ, 27 year old Fed. It was quite a performance. And he was 20. You could see more Majors in his future. Then the injury.
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yeah, he played lights out, absolutely devastating tennis that whole tournament. it was the most beautiful display of hard hitting i've ever seen, not awkward like soderling or boring like berdych. i was probably one of the ones who exaggerated his old abilities, to be honest.

i was just trying to be unbiased and felt the need to note that people have done that. as a delpo fan, i would love for him to be in contention for the big ones again. as far as overhyped goes however, i see more people doubting his future than hyping him nowadays.
 
Del Potro??

He's 23, won a slam(beating Rafa and Roger), 4 QF's and a SF at slams, has won like 11 titles so far, who outside the top 3 has better number than him right now?

Murray hasn't won a slam yet, Ferrer is yet to play a final, Berdych,Tsonga played one but both have fewer titles and are older than Delpo, Tipsy didn't win a title till last year. On top of that he was missing from the tour long time due to injuries...
 
Enigma_87 said:
Del Potro??

He's 23, won a slam(beating Rafa and Roger), 4 QF's and a SF at slams, has won like 11 titles so far, who outside the top 3 has better number than him right now?

Murray hasn't won a slam yet, Ferrer is yet to play a final, Berdych,Tsonga played one but both have fewer titles and are older than Delpo, Tipsy didn't win a title till last year. On top of that he was missing from the tour long time due to injuries...
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i think the discussion is more about "overrated as in how are their chances to really win something big at their current stage" and not so much "what have they achieved so far in their careers". theres no doubt delpo is a more accomplished player than berdych or tsonga already.

but do you really see him as a contender for a slam title at the moment, say for the us open this year? if you made a poll right now asking "who will win USO 12" then aside of the big 4 delpo may well get the most votes. thats what makes him seem overrated at the moment since truthfully, i could rather imagine tsonga or berdych winning if they get hot and the big guys slip.
 
Other than who you mentioned:

Rosol- Ever since he beat Nadal all I've heard is how great he is or is going to become. Realistically he will probably never play as good as he did in that 5th set ever again, which is not an insult, that level of play is just near impossible to match. He'll probably just continue to be a top 50-100 player.

Tomic- This guy has done absolutely nothing since 4th round at the AO. Whenever I watch him it always seems like he never truly cared, and now it's showing.

Nishikori- Hasn't done anything since QF of the Australian. I don't know if he's in a rut or what, but he hasn't lived up to his ranking lately
 
purge said:
i think the discussion is more about "overrated as in how are their chances to really win something big at their current stage" and not so much "what have they achieved so far in their careers". theres no doubt delpo is a more accomplished player than berdych or tsonga already.

but do you really see him as a contender for a slam title at the moment, say for the us open this year? if you made a poll right now asking "who will win USO 12" then aside of the big 4 delpo may well get the most votes. thats what makes him seem overrated at the moment since truthfully, i could rather imagine tsonga or berdych winning if they get hot and the big guys slip.
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Berdych winning more than Delpo? That's laughable. Berdych results since his Wimbledon final are as follows:

1ST, QF, 1ST, 4TH, 3RD, QF, 1ST

The first QF lost in straights with 2 breadsticks.

On the top of that Berdych hasn't made it past the 4th round at the USO as well.

Tsonga has put some good results lately and pushed the top guys but has only 1 QF at the USO as well.

If you make a poll and Delpo wins most votes it is for a reason - he has won it before and his top level is higher than anyone but Federer, Djokovic and Nadal...
 
Enigma_87 said:
Berdych winning more than Delpo? That's laughable. Berdych results since his Wimbledon final are as follows:

1ST, QF, 1ST, 4TH, 3RD, QF, 1ST

The first QF lost in straights with 2 breadsticks.

On the top of that Berdych hasn't made it past the 4th round at the USO as well.

Tsonga has put some good results lately and pushed the top guys but has only 1 QF at the USO as well.

If you make a poll and Delpo wins most votes it is for a reason - he has won it before and his top level is higher than anyone but Federer, Djokovic and Nadal...
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thats because berdych is a total hot or cold player. he can be cold and bow out in R1 just as much as he can go all the way if he gets hot. delpo at the moment is consistently good to beat pretty much anyone except the top 4. berdych (and tsonga) on the other hand may lose to inferior players, but they may also get through at least one of the top guys on a hot day.

to win a slam (not to just go deep but to actually win it) you will have to beat at least one of the big 4. berdych and tsonga may have a chance if 2 of the big 4 slip and go out early and the other 2 meet in the semi or something so they only have to go through 1 of fed, djoko, nadal, murray on route to the title.

thats much to ask of course, chances are that is not going to happen. it sure hasnt happened in any of the last 30 slams (which is obviously why tsonga and berdych have not won a slam so far) but at least it could happen theoretically. and then berdych and tsonga have a better shot than delpo has ATM imo. for delpo to win at this point it appears that all 4 would have to go out and thats even less likely.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Berdych winning more than Delpo? That's laughable. Berdych results since his Wimbledon final are as follows:

1ST, QF, 1ST, 4TH, 3RD, QF, 1ST

The first QF lost in straights with 2 breadsticks.

On the top of that Berdych hasn't made it past the 4th round at the USO as well.

Tsonga has put some good results lately and pushed the top guys but has only 1 QF at the USO as well.

If you make a poll and Delpo wins most votes it is for a reason - he has won it before and his top level is higher than anyone but Federer, Djokovic and Nadal...
Click to expand...


Before I start, it's worth noting that this thread is about what people say about the players - not the players themselves - it's not the fault of a given player that he is hyped up on here.

That said - Well done on demonstrating so vividly what JBF was talking about when he included Delpo in this list.

Delpo is 1-5 v Murray, 0-4 on hardcourt, 0-1 at the USO but you seem to be implying that he is 4th favourite for the USO . He lost to Murray a couple of weeks before his USO win and a couple of months after. I guess he just doesn't bring 'his top level' when he plays Murray?

My tuppence worth? Milos has been heavily hyped on this board, with Delpo second.
 
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batz said:
Before I start, it's worth noting that this thread is about what people say about the players - not the players themselves - it's not the fault of a given player that he is hyped up on here.

That said - Well done on demonstrating so vividly what JBF was talking about when he included Delpo in this list.

Delpo is 1-5 v Murray, 0-4 on hardcourt, 0-1 at the USO but you seem to be implying that he is 4th favourite for the USO . He lost to Murray a couple of weeks before his USO win and a couple of months after. I guess he just doesn't bring 'his top level' when he plays Murray?

My tuppence worth? Milos has been heavily hyped on this board IMO, with Delpo second.
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Delpo is hyped for a reason. First of all Murray is more than an year older than Delpo. He also didn't suffer injuries when he was on top of his game.

Losing in masters is not the same as majors. Murray has won a lot against Federer at MS but won 1 set in 4 meetings in slams. Murray played only once Delpo in a slam and was tight match, with Delpo still finding his game.

I do believe that if Delpo is fit he's the 4th favorite for the USO.

For one if anyone is hyped it should be Murray...
 
Enigma_87 said:
Delpo is hyped for a reason. First of all Murray is more than an year older than Delpo. He also didn't suffer injuries when he was on top of his game.

Losing in masters is not the same as majors. Murray has won a lot against Federer at MS but won 1 set in 4 meetings in slams. Murray played only once Delpo in a slam and was tight match, with Delpo still finding his game.

I do believe that if Delpo is fit he's the 4th favorite for the USO.

For one if anyone is hyped it should be Murray...
Click to expand...

And this, ladies & gentlemen, is why Juan Martin del Potro is the most overrated player outside the top 4. :)
 
Enigma_87 said:
yeah because he has the best results outside the top 3 at the USO... It's clearly abysmal to suggest he's the 4th favorite there... :?
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It was 3 years ago mate. I guess Roddick is co-4th favourite? Who you got as 5th - Sampras?

Seriously mate - you are making JBF's point for him.
 
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batz said:
It was 3 years ago mate. I guess Roddick is co-4th favourite? Who you got as 5th - Sampras?

Seriously mate - you are making JBF's point for him.
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Last year Delpo was still recovering. This year he made to 2 QF's both lost to Federer. At Wimbey his game is not suited for grass so it's normal to see him go out early, still 4th round.

My point is I can't see how Berdych and Tsonga can be considered better than him at the USO. Even with Delpo still recovering he almost matched their performances since that USO.

And since we're talking about winning the title, I can see Murray be able to do so, given his abysmal record in slam finals. Delpo may not land on his side mate I can't see the relevance in their H2H to got something to do with winning the title.

When I see threads about who is winning the next X slams I see Murray named to win couple in the next 2 years, yet he's still to win 1. I don't see every poster having Delpo there...
 
purge said:
john isner

from what ive seen of his game, doesnt belong in the top 10

yet earlier in the year some demanded he be the "best of the rest" by the end of the season. far from
Click to expand...

agreed.

big serve, average ground game.

once people can get his serve in play....
 
The attention drawn to baker is out of compassion more than anything. It's not as though he's ever had a realistic chance of making any inroads in big tournaments or even be considered a dangerous floater for your Djok/Murr/Fed/Nads.

When people start to draw parallels between Raonic and Sampras then you know something's gone wrong.
 
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jamesblakefan#1 said:
5. Gulbis - Plays one great match every 2 years, people hype him up based on said match, then he goes on to be mediocre for the next 11 months. Repeat this formula and you have Ernests Gulbis' career story. Enough said.

Others to mention - Brian Baker (from great story to people picking him to win every single tourney in the US this summer), David Nalbandian/Nikolay Davydenko (once great players now on the downside of their careers, yet still get mentioned as threats to the top 4 by some), Dimitrov (even though he's starting to find some good form the past few tourneys, he's still not nearly lived up to the ginormous hype people put on him).
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Gulbis is "hated" (not literally, but he is definitely not liked) by 70% of tennis fans. Nalbandian WAS a threat this year for two of the TOP 4, Murray and Nadal) and Davydenko almost beats Federer in Rotterdam I think. Delpo had a lot of injuries, and he is only 23. On the rest I agree (excep I don't see people thinking Baker will win big titles)
 
SLD76 said:
agreed.

big serve, average ground game.

once people can get his serve in play....
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The thing is: they often DON'T get his serve in play. Americans will always be hyped up on this board by some, but in general, I think big servers are often underrated. "just a serve" is no argument at all. The guy is top 10, and often not given credit for being that. Your post and the one you quote seem to suggestt you don't find him actually a top 10 player, while he just is (or was) actually. So if anything, I think the underraters cancel out the overraters when it comes to Isner.
 
rovex said:
The attention drawn to baker is out of compassion more than anything. It's not as though he's ever had a realistic chance of making any inroads in big tournaments or even be considered a dangerous floater for your Djok/Murr/Fed/Nads.

When people start to draw parallels between Raonic and Sampras then you know something's gone wrong.
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What do you base this on, it is not as if the guy was toiling away at the challenger level for years once he turned pro, he was simply out of tennis. He is very much a dangerous floater. The first year he turned pro he knocked a top ten player out of the US Open in the second round. If I am a top ten player I don't want to draw Baker early at the US Open, especially if said player is named Rafael Nadal. It wouldn't surprise me at all if by this time next year, Baker is the highest ranked American player.
 
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RF-17-GOAT said:
No Isner? No Almagro? No Berdych?
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Almagro gets no love. He's the king of the 250s, pretty much never does anything major in the big events. I don't think he's over or underrated, rated for what he is - a solid CCer who'll probably never threaten the big 4 at a major event.

Berdy isn't that overrated either. Given his game and the way people usually go gaga for people with his game (big hitter, big serve, can blow anyone off the court on a good day) he really doesn't get that much hype.

Isner may have gone from under to overrated. He's sorta stagnated after a good start to the season.
 
joeri888 said:
The thing is: they often DON'T get his serve in play. Americans will always be hyped up on this board by some, but in general, I think big servers are often underrated. "just a serve" is no argument at all. The guy is top 10, and often not given credit for being that. Your post and the one you quote seem to suggestt you don't find him actually a top 10 player, while he just is (or was) actually. So if anything, I think the underraters cancel out the overraters when it comes to Isner.
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clearly they are or his results and ranking would be better.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Last year Delpo was still recovering. This year he made to 2 QF's both lost to Federer. At Wimbey his game is not suited for grass so it's normal to see him go out early, still 4th round.
Click to expand...

That would be ok if he didn't go out to another guy who's not exactly suited for grass, Ferrer, and in straight sets.



My point is I can't see how Berdych and Tsonga can be considered better than him at the USO. Even with Delpo still recovering he almost matched their performances since that USO.
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When's the last time Delpo beat any of the top 4? I honestly can't remember it. That's what you have to do to win a slam in this era, and since his injury Delpo hasn't proven that he's able to reach that level consistently and do what he did in 09.

And since we're talking about winning the title, I can see Murray be able to do so, given his abysmal record in slam finals. Delpo may not land on his side mate I can't see the relevance in their H2H to got something to do with winning the title.

When I see threads about who is winning the next X slams I see Murray named to win couple in the next 2 years, yet he's still to win 1. I don't see every poster having Delpo there...
Click to expand...

Murray's consistently there late in every single major though. It's not like he's miles away, just because he loses in finals, it's still better than not making the finals or semis at all. That's why you have to rate Murray's chances at the USO as greater than Delpo's. You can't use 09 as a reason for Delpo's chances, if that were the case then Roddick would be 2nd or 3rd fave at Wimbledon this year, but he wasn't.

We all know what Delpo has done in the past, but right now he hasn't shown that he can reach that level again in order to win another slam.
 
jamesblakefan#1 said:
When's the last time Delpo beat any of the top 4? I honestly can't remember it.
Click to expand...

WTF RR v Fed in 2009?

EDIT he also beat Noel 7-6 3-0 in the DC in September 2011, but WTF v Fed was his last tournament win over a top 4 player.
 
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I don't have the patience to rate past the current top 12 so my vote goes to Tipsarevic. He has never played a final in any tourney above 250's and is a lousy 3-7 in those. At least Pico & Nico have 18 titles between them at that level, but all but one of those were on clay. They are more one-surface "wonders". Isner has no 500+ wins but two finals

At least the rest of the top 12 have some legitimacy at MS1000 and major venues, although Ferrer's lack of a single win up there diminishes his #5 status.

If we went past the top dozen, Simon would be on the radar.
 
For awhile there DelPo was hyped, fans wanted to see the old DelPo play his game at the top level, myself included.
As time went on it wasn't so clear that he could attain those levels again, though at times lately he's shown a little but not near enough.
If announcers have to ask if he's "back" then he isn't.


The same for Roanic, he was progressing pretty well in his all around game but seemed to have stalled. He can still serve but he needs more than that to beat the best consistently.
 
Raonic.....He can keep on winning 250s like Querrey an Isner....and people are going to hype him to be the next Sampras still.


Del Potro even though hyped he has a slam....he can get hyped like crazy and it is worth the attention.
 
SLD76 said:
clearly they are or his results and ranking would be better.
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I don't see many people here saying that Isner should be world no. 1 or is one of the 5 best players in the world. Think he's appreciated for the ranking he has but not that much more. Maybe slightly when he beat Novak in IW, and Roger in DC, but that's it.
 
Overrated? Tennis rankings are based on results. There is no such thing as "overrating" in tennis ranking.
 
LuckyR said:
Overrated? Tennis rankings are based on results. There is no such thing as "overrating" in tennis ranking.
Click to expand...

There's always this post in threads like this. It should be clear by now that in this context overrated means by tennis media and or fans, not the ATP rankings. Or else the question would be overranked, not overrated.
 
jamesblakefan#1 said:
That would be ok if he didn't go out to another guy who's not exactly suited for grass, Ferrer, and in straight sets.
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Well Murray who is pretty much suited to grass had to go through 4 tight sets with 3 tie breaks to beat him himself. Ferrer was in form this year, but as I said I don't consider Delpo a favorite at Wimbey.

When's the last time Delpo beat any of the top 4? I honestly can't remember it. That's what you have to do to win a slam in this era, and since his injury Delpo hasn't proven that he's able to reach that level consistently and do what he did in 09.
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about the same time since Murray defeated one of the top 3 at a slam.
Murray's consistently there late in every single major though. It's not like he's miles away, just because he loses in finals, it's still better than not making the finals or semis at all. That's why you have to rate Murray's chances at the USO as greater than Delpo's. You can't use 09 as a reason for Delpo's chances, if that were the case then Roddick would be 2nd or 3rd fave at Wimbledon this year, but he wasn't.
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Murray hadn't won a match against the top three at a GS tournament since AO 2010(that's like 2 1/2 years ago).He makes it late in the draw if he doesn't meet Nadal, Federer or Djokovic.

Murray is ranked #4 for a long time which means that he can't draw the top three in one tournament, while Delpo can, ultimately making his road tougher. Delpo took 2 sets off Federer this year at the RG something Murray didn't do in their 4 encounters. 09 is a reason because 1 year he spend out of contention and 1 year recovering. This year he's playing real good tennis when fit and slowly getting back to his form.

My point is Delpo can beat the best at a slam, while Murray at his best can't beat 31 years old Federer at his own back yard... Also Roddick is way past his prime, Delpo clearly isn't I can't see the comparison there.

We all know what Delpo has done in the past, but right now he hasn't shown that he can reach that level again in order to win another slam.
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well 5 sets vs Federer in the RG Quarters I say is a good estimate, also career best at Wimbey, he's getting into a streak and USO is his best tournament(surface suits him best) so I really don't see the problem if he's fit to be considered as one of the favorites..
 
Enigma_87 said:
about the same time since Murray defeated one of the top 3 at a slam.

.
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He didn't ask about 'at a slam' - he asked about when he'd last done it ever. Murray beat Djokovic the last time they played, same with Nadal. Murray has also beaten Roger on multiple occasions in the time period under discussion.

I like Delpo - really I do. But you cannot rate his chances today on two weeks of play from nearly three years ago. Your entire position is based on just 2 weeks of play.
 
batz said:
He didn't ask about 'at a slam' - he asked about when he'd last done it ever. Murray beat Djokovic the last time they played, same with Nadal. Murray has also beaten Roger on multiple occasions in the time period under discussion.

I like Delpo - really I do. But you cannot rate his chances today on two weeks of play from nearly three years ago. Your entire position is based on just 2 weeks of play.
Click to expand...



No he didn't. He lost to Cvac in the Miami final,and iirc,that was the last time they played.
 
batz said:
Apologies Clarky - you're right enough; he beat Nole in the match prior to that in the Dubai semis.
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Well yeah I get your point, but I think Murray is very much in his prime right now and still he hasn't won a slam. Hasn't come even close to it.

Yes Murray is capable of beating the best in best of 3 matches, but doesn't have that next level in him to beat them in majors.

Murray's game is based on consistency, while on other hand Delpo when in the zone is very hard to beat even by the best(much alike Safin).

And of course you have to bear in mind that Delpo is younger and injuries were setback for him in the last 1-2 years.

Watching Murray losing finals again and again I can't see him having what it takes to defeat Federer/Nadal or Djokovic at a final of a Major...
 
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