Please add which player you believe has the most stamina in tennis history. After watching Roger only got around 16.5 of rest for the WTF final, I think he has great stamina considered how he was able to move so well throughout the entire match against Rafa. After the match, he still look fresh and can still play another match with no problem.
Most stamina player of all time
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borg number one
Legend
I think Bjorn Borg, Nadal, and Lendl are way up there in this category. I'd put Borg at the very top. For example, Nadal and Borg have the most impressive five set records among Open Era players. Just a note on Borg, twice, he won 19 consecutive points on serve in the fifth set. He did that during the 1980 Wimbledon final against McEnroe and then at the 1980 US Open quarterfinal against Roscoe Tanner .
(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Björn_Borg)
See Borg on two occasions that illustrate his extraordinary stamina. First, look at him after he goes up 4-0 in the fifth set on red clay vs. Lendl. Then, see how he appears after winning two sets against Connors on rubico. After he fully matured as an athlete, the guy did not exhibit fatigue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL__OcegrbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTMx--E0OhY
(Thanks Krosero)
(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Björn_Borg)
See Borg on two occasions that illustrate his extraordinary stamina. First, look at him after he goes up 4-0 in the fifth set on red clay vs. Lendl. Then, see how he appears after winning two sets against Connors on rubico. After he fully matured as an athlete, the guy did not exhibit fatigue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL__OcegrbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTMx--E0OhY
(Thanks Krosero)
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boredone3456
G.O.A.T.
I to have to say Nadal for the men, he plays a long grind out game and in the clay season he will pack in events anywhere he can and always go deep and even with his knees taped has proven he can go the distance in matches if he needs to.
Fed, Borg, Lendl, maybe Agassi to an extent, McEnroe? are all good choices as well
Fed, Borg, Lendl, maybe Agassi to an extent, McEnroe? are all good choices as well
BN1,
You have a good point, winning in the 5th set is a testament of great stamina, especially when it’s a marathon match. But 5th results are not always the best indicator to measure stamina. Notice Sampras has a better 5 sets record than Federer, but I don’t think he’s has better stamina than Federer. Remember it was once pointed out that Pete has a blood disorder(thalassemia).
You have a good point, winning in the 5th set is a testament of great stamina, especially when it’s a marathon match. But 5th results are not always the best indicator to measure stamina. Notice Sampras has a better 5 sets record than Federer, but I don’t think he’s has better stamina than Federer. Remember it was once pointed out that Pete has a blood disorder(thalassemia).
borg number one
Legend
True, but neither has a five set record nearly as good as either Nadal's record or Borg's (both 80+%, let me check that thread from Bud/Mustard). Sampras did win some tough five setters at the AUstralian, Wimbledon and at the US Open, but I would say that no tournament tests stamina as much as the French Open. Look at the masters at the French Open: Bjorn Borg and Rafael Nadal.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Pancho Gonzales!
What is the reason why you pick him? Was there a lot of running and long rallies back then? Was his peers always gassed out before him?
And I heard Pancho was 6'4". Not too many player has great stamina at this size.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
Gonzalez was a half inch shorter than 6'4" but he was great in five set matches. He had very very good stamina perhaps even great stamina but some players did have better stamina than Gonzalez, like Lew Hoad for example.
While Gonzalez had was that serve that many rank as the best ever. Some believe that Gonzalez would easily break 140 miles per hour with his serve. Vic Braden believed that but Braden also believed that Gonzalez's serve was so fluid and smooth that it took very little out of him. So he could be serving bombs in the fifth set of a match while other players would be exhausted serving.
So Gonzalez perhaps didn't have the stamina of some but he also would be great in fifth set matches because his serve was so smooth and easy on him.
Gonzalez is a fascinating figure and I'm sure a very imposing person and player. Jack Kramer said at 5-5 in the fifth set, there is no one he would pick over Gonzalez. Bobby Riggs said that if the loser of a match would have to jump off a bridge (or something like that) that he may pick Gonzalez over anyone. He would have found a way to survive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd0gJzm_EQY
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16.5 hours of rest between the semifinal and the final. Based on their scheduling, Roger had at most was 16.5 hours to recuperate for the final. Nadal’s semifinal match was scheduled 6 hrs before Roger’s match. So clearly Nadal had the upper hand in preparing for the final, not to mention he’s 5 yrs younger. But the match turned out that Roger had more energy of the two, and was still fresh after the match.
Anyway, going back to this topic, I think we should factor in the player’s previous matches. Did they have a lot of rest between matches? Did they played multiple marathon matches in short time frame? How they cope with the heat/humidity. Sure, you can play one great long match, but can you do it the next day is another question.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
That is impressive by Federer but remember Nadal had the much longer match while Federer's match was quick and easy for him.
Didn't Nadal have to play a number of days in a row at Wimbledon one year when there were a lot of rain outs? I think Nadal reached the final and lost to final in five sets.
In '88, Ion Tiriac said that nobody was tougher than Wilander after 4 hours.
Cesc Fabregas
Legend
Borg, Muster, Lendl, Hewitt, Nadal, Federer, Courier.
Hewitt, I totally forgot about him.
I think Reno Tomasi said the samething.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
I reckon Chang would be in that tier also.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
You're right. Wilander never seemed to tired either. Maybe there's something in the Swedish water.
Now that you mention it was probably him I was thinking of, not Tiriac. It was a quote related by Mary Carillo during the '88 USO final. I do know for sure that Tomasi picked Wilander over Lendl in the final.
I’m surprise they don’t provide chairs for the players to sit between games. And since we mention about resting, I think Nadal gets too much credit for his great stamina...he waste time between points too much, and that can help the him to recover especially when he’s the type that runs a lot. Imagine if both players played the same fast pace as Agassi for 5 hours, that would be incredibly tiresome.
Yeah your right, Tomasi picked Wilander in 5 sets. I guess his prediction was spot on.
I think Chang's in the second tier. I did see him get tired in the 5th set numerous times.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
And Vilas. Don't forget him.
Is this the best stamina or quickest on court? The two are not the same in my book.
I would have to say Muster, however I dont have any knowledge of players prior to 85. Saying that the best match I ever saw(conditioning wise) was the Becker Mac davis cup match....4–6, 15-13, 8-10, 6–2, 6–2 Becker. Sadly I did not see the Wilander Mac davis cup match at...9–7, 6–2, 15-17, 3–6, 8–6 Mac.
I would have to say Muster, however I dont have any knowledge of players prior to 85. Saying that the best match I ever saw(conditioning wise) was the Becker Mac davis cup match....4–6, 15-13, 8-10, 6–2, 6–2 Becker. Sadly I did not see the Wilander Mac davis cup match at...9–7, 6–2, 15-17, 3–6, 8–6 Mac.
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
I guess when certain persons play for their nation's Davis Cup team, their stamina gets better.
HarveyPitnik
Professional
My top five: Borg, Muster, Nadal, Wilander and Byron Black
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
He had a better career record than Connors, Courier, Agassi or Vilas.
Might not be all down to stamina but just saying... I recall seeing Courier quite exhausted a couple of times in long matches and Agassi even moreso in his early years.
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pc1
G.O.A.T.
Roy Emerson and Lew Hoad were known for their stamina also.
Actually that's a good point. Stamina helps in long matches but it's not the end all. A great player like Pete Sampras didn't have the best stamina but I don't remember him losing too many five set match. He found a way to way. I think a lot of us wouldn't mind having Pete Sampras play a fifth set on let's say hard court over a lot of great players with better stamina.
Ken Rosewall had excellent stamina but it was funny with him. He often seemed like he was about to collapse between points. But when the point started he was moving around like lightning.
So I guess the big question is this, who would you want to play a fifth set for you? The answer could vary depending on the surface.
Actually that's a good point. Stamina helps in long matches but it's not the end all. A great player like Pete Sampras didn't have the best stamina but I don't remember him losing too many five set match. He found a way to way. I think a lot of us wouldn't mind having Pete Sampras play a fifth set on let's say hard court over a lot of great players with better stamina.
Ken Rosewall had excellent stamina but it was funny with him. He often seemed like he was about to collapse between points. But when the point started he was moving around like lightning.
So I guess the big question is this, who would you want to play a fifth set for you? The answer could vary depending on the surface.
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robow7
Professional
And NO tie breaks. Can you imagine going 14-12 in the first set and knowing this is a best of five. Today's players have it so easy with TV timeouts between change overs. Also can you imagine in the days of shamateurism, playing one night against the best, hop in a van, drive for hours and then play again the next day and then do it again and again. Harry Hopman worked them over for a reason.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Did you mean Rollo Tomasi?
Edberg 1992 USO.
borg number one
Legend
kiki
Banned
Mac was never reputed for his stamina.But some of his streaks, when he was about 21-22, indicate the contrary.In the 1980 USO, he beat Lendl in 4 sets at the quarters, next day beat Connors in a very tight five setter, and finally, defeated Borg in the final, after 5 long sets, with 3 of them ending in a tie breaker.
borg number one
Legend
This is worth reposting. What's stunning to me is the following, when I see this clip from Krosero ('81 FO Borg vs. Lendl):
1. Borg is playing with a wood frame against Ivan Lendl, who is playing with a graphite frame.
2. It's on red clay, in the final, in the fifth set.
Some did comment that this match was never really in question, though it did go 5 sets. Borg was quite apart from Lendl in the 5th set and his stamina may be one of the biggest reasons. He won 6-1 in the 5th, but see this critical point to move him to 4-0. He won 6–1, 4–6, 6–2, 3–6, 6–1.
So, how would one feel physically, stamina wise, moving deep into a fifth set, on red clay at RG in those conditions, facing a up and coming Lendl, who was at that time, beating McEnroe frequently already? Now, see Borg move here and you get an indication of his stamina. Does he look tired? Then, there's his speed too as he wins a sixth FO title before he was even 25.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL__OcegrbY
1. Borg is playing with a wood frame against Ivan Lendl, who is playing with a graphite frame.
2. It's on red clay, in the final, in the fifth set.
Some did comment that this match was never really in question, though it did go 5 sets. Borg was quite apart from Lendl in the 5th set and his stamina may be one of the biggest reasons. He won 6-1 in the 5th, but see this critical point to move him to 4-0. He won 6–1, 4–6, 6–2, 3–6, 6–1.
So, how would one feel physically, stamina wise, moving deep into a fifth set, on red clay at RG in those conditions, facing a up and coming Lendl, who was at that time, beating McEnroe frequently already? Now, see Borg move here and you get an indication of his stamina. Does he look tired? Then, there's his speed too as he wins a sixth FO title before he was even 25.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL__OcegrbY
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borg number one
Legend
Lendl and Wilander had great stamina and yes, like Borg they were very smart about the mental/emotional aspects of being a great "stamina player". Wilander just floated around the court, much like Borg or Federer. He was very smart about how he spent his energy. The 1988 US Open final was an example of Wilander's pure physical fitness too. Lendl was great in this department as well, all up there with the likes of Borg and Nadal. Another great video from Krosero, with great points.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efmy72bXH0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efmy72bXH0c
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
As a 41-year-old at the 1969 Wimbledon, Gonzales met the fine young amateur Charlie Pasarell a Puerto Rican younger than Gonzales by 16 years who revered his opponent.
Pasarell won a titanic first set, 24-22, then with daylight fading, the 41-year-old Gonzalez argued that the match should be suspended. The referee didn't relent and thus the petulant Gonzalez virtually threw the second set, losing it 6-1. At the break, the referee agreed the players should stop. Gonzalez was booed as he walked off Centre Court.
The next day, the serves, the volleys and all the prowess that made Gonzales a fiery competitor surfaced with trademark vengeance. Pasarell, seeking to exploit Gonzalez's advanced years, tried to aim soft service returns at Gonzalez's feet and tire him with frequent lobs. Barked Gonzalez on a changeover, "Charlie, I know what you're doing – and it's not working!" Gonzalez rebounded to win three straight sets, 16-14, 6-3, 11-9. In the fifth set, Gonzales won all seven match points that Pasarell had against him, twice coming back from 0-40 deficits, to walk off the court from the 5-hour, 12-minute epic.
The final score was an improbable 22-24, 1–6, 16-14, 6–3, 11-9. The match with Pasarell is still remembered as one of the highlights in the history of tennis and has been called one of "The Ten Greatest Matches of the Open Era" in the Nov-Dec 2003 issue of TENNIS magazine. It is also the match that probably encouraged the invention of the tie-breaker in tennis scoring.
But it was not this match alone which gave Gonzales the reputation, among the top players, of being the greatest long-match player in the history of the game.
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World Beater
Hall of Fame
edberg and rafter...very underrated. their games were very aggressive and high octane..require a lot of endurance to play that way for an entire tournament.
safin was also a guy who had great stamina especially considering his size.
there needs to be a difference between stamina in one match and stamina over a tournament. i feel federer for example can tire in a single match, but he recovers extremely well - remember 2006 rome tournament on clay.
other players like nadal and safin have great stamina in one match but can show up the next day with no energy if they played a tough match the day before.
safin was also a guy who had great stamina especially considering his size.
there needs to be a difference between stamina in one match and stamina over a tournament. i feel federer for example can tire in a single match, but he recovers extremely well - remember 2006 rome tournament on clay.
other players like nadal and safin have great stamina in one match but can show up the next day with no energy if they played a tough match the day before.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
I agree.. Although if that's the measurement criteria then there is a case to be made that Federer > Nadal in single match category. Plenty of time I've seen Nadal almost run ragged - in the Mimai final against Djokovic even - a level which I've not seen Federer reach nearly as often... most likely because Federer expends less energy to play his matches than Nadal.
As you also say, Federer's next day bounce-back is tremendous and his ability to play right at the top without getting injured in a match is unrivalled.
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dominikk1985
Legend
how about federer? He certainly is overrated in some aspects (BH, mental toughness, tactics) but his fitness is definitely underrated because his game looks so effortless.
but in all those years he never had to retire a match or lost because of tiredness (unlike nadal). I would say federer is the fittest player of all time.
but in all those years he never had to retire a match or lost because of tiredness (unlike nadal). I would say federer is the fittest player of all time.
chrischris
G.O.A.T.
Borg, Nadal, Lendl,Muster, Chang, Vilas. In that order.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
I don't see how Nadal be in that group and Federer not when Nadal has shown dozens of times that both the match he's playing has got to him or that the match from the day before is having an effect on him?
- How many times has Federer called for a trainer in what is just an effort to delay play?
- How many times have you seen Federer keeled over between points?
- How many times have you seen Federer look like death warmed up the day after a hard match?
- How many times has Federer had to pull out of a tournament before it started to get more recovery from the previous one?
No doubt Nadal is a supremely fit guy but he does those things above 10 times more often than Federer.
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