Most wins over ATGs - Federer had none of the best 24 seasons

BGod

Legend
Because Wawrinka, Murray & Roddick aren't on the list. Roddick being an ATG without Federer.

The simple reasoning is Federer's obliterating dominance from 2004-2007, 09 and Nadal being the only guy to qualify under that label largely clay oriented until 2010.

Sampras isn't much higher with 8 & 9 wins for the same reason. If McEnroe & Lendl dominated more then Wilander, Becker, Edberg wouldn't be classified as ATGs.
 

Pheasant

Hall of Fame
Takeaway: Rod Laver, who won the Open Era CYGS at the ripe old age of 31, followed up this performance by beating 15 ATG players at age 32. He then followed up that year by beating 11 ATG players at the age of 33.

Laver is the only one at age 30+ to rack up 10+ wins against an ATG in the same season. And he pulled this off twice. And those two seasons were immediately after he won the Open Era CYGS.

I think that this is the best case that anyone has built for Laver being the 2nd best player ever(MuryGOAT is #1 by the reflexive property). The irony here is that Lew built this case accidentally by trying to trash Federer for the 1,000,000th time.

Folks, Sir Lew just accidentally discovered penicillin.
 

Druss

Hall of Fame
If you care about it, do it yourself.

I don't. Look at Federer: he improved his h2h since 2014. He's the perfect example that young age is not an advantage.
So Thiem and Medvedev have no age advantage over Djokovic these days?
Ok.

Oh what I'd give to see 2011 Djokovic whip these guys.
 

Bobby Jr

G.O.A.T.
Congrats, another braindead thread from Lew II.

When you're that dominant, and existing ATGs retire soon into your career there's not really much you can do about it.

We should be more worried about Djokovic's H2H with Pat Cash which currently is an even race. If he can't improve on his H2H with a scrub like Cash he can hardly be regarded as a GOAT.
Most wins over ATGs (10+ Slam finalists) in a season:
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
This is a skewed statistic I think since Federer was so good he prevented other players from becoming all time greats
How would Roddick or Hewitt go from 4/5 slam finals to 10 slam finals without Federer?

They're simply far from ATG level.
 
How would Roddick or Hewitt go from 4/5 slam finals to 10 slam finals without Federer?

They're simply far from ATG level.
1. Federer d. Roddick 2003 Wimb SF
2. Federer d. Roddick 2007 AO SF
3. Federer d. Roddick 2007 UO QF (Roddick 5-1 career h2h vs Davydenko)
4. Federer d. Roddick 2009 AO SF

That's 4 more right there for Roddick. That's not counting 2003 AO where he was physically ruined in the SF after going 21-19 in the 5th of QF with El Aynaoui. Wrist and forearm.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
1. Federer d. Roddick 2003 Wimb SF
2. Federer d. Roddick 2007 AO SF
3. Federer d. Roddick 2007 UO QF (Roddick 5-1 career h2h vs Davydenko)
4. Federer d. Roddick 2009 AO SF

That's 4 more right there for Roddick. That's not counting 2003 AO where he was physically ruined in the SF after going 21-19 in the 5th of QF with El Aynaoui. Wrist and forearm.
It's 9 and you don't even know if Roddick would have made it to the final.

And this game can be done for all players.

What would Murray be without Djokovic? He could be in the Lendl/McEnroe tier. What would Ferrer be without Nadal? A clay ATG.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Funny that Federer prevented Roddick from being an ATG in the mind of people, but they omit how Djokodal prevented Murray, Thiem, Tsonga, Ferrer, Berdych, Nishikori, etc. from being ATGs and multiple Slam champions..

Big3 have similar career but somehow only Federer stops players from becoming ATGs :-D
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Most wins over ATGs (10+ Slam finalists) in a season:

1) 1984 McEnroe 17
2) 1985 Lendl 16
3) 1970 Laver / 2015 Djokovic 15
5) 1987 Lendl 13
6) 1979 Borg 12 / 1989 Becker 12 / 1990 Edberg 12
9) 2011 Djokovic 12
10) 1971 Laver / 1986 Becker 11 / 1995 Agassi 11 / 2008 Nadal 11
14) 1969 Laver 10
15) 1970 Rosewall 9 / 1989 Edberg 9 / 1994 Sampras 9 / 2007 Nadal 9
19) 1980 Borg / 1987 Edberg / 1988 Becker / 1989 Lendl / 1995 Sampras / 2012 Djokovic / 2014 Djokovic 8

Federer's best season (7 wins in 2010) is at #26 place (EDITED) , tied with other seasons.
Fed is overrated. 4.0 at best, closer to 3.5 I'd say
 
It's 9 and you don't even know if Roddick would have made it to the final.

And this game can be done for all players.

What would Murray be without Djokovic? He could be in the Lendl/McEnroe tier. What would Ferrer be without Nadal? A clay ATG.
Ok Lew. Replace Fed with his previous round opponent then.

-2003 Wimby vs Schalkan (Roddick 5-1 h2h and defeated him 2004 Wimby)
-2007 AO vs Robredo (Roddick 11-0 h2h)
-2007 UO vs Lopez (Roddick 7-1 h2h)
-2009 AO vs Delpo (Delpo double bageled by Fed winning 3 games, taking Roddick)
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Ok Lew. Replace Fed with his previous round opponent then.

-2003 Wimby vs Schalkan (Roddick 5-1 h2h and defeated him 2004 Wimby)
-2007 AO vs Robredo (Roddick 11-0 h2h)
-2007 UO vs Lopez (Roddick 7-1 h2h)
-2009 AO vs Delpo (Delpo double bageled by Fed winning 3 games, taking Roddick)
I think those would be embarassing draws.

Roddick in his career had only 6 wins at Slams over top10s (#44 in the Open Era). Dominik Hrbaty beat more top10s than he did. Real ATG numbers :D
 
I think those would be embarassing draws.

Roddick in his career had only 6 wins at Slams over top10s (#44 in the Open Era). Dominik Hrbaty beat more top10s than he did. Real ATG numbers :D
6-16 overall vs top 10 in slams. 13/16 were to slam winners Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Hewitt, and Delpo. 50% of those losses were to Federer (8). 3 ATG GOAT contenders making 10/16 losses he had.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
6-16 overall vs top 10 in slams. 13/16 were to slam winners Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Hewitt, and Delpo. 50% of those losses were to Federer (8).
Why did he face so few top10s in his career?

He's only #43 in the Open Era in matches played against top10s.
 

junior74

G.O.A.T.
Funny that Federer prevented Roddick from being an ATG in the mind of people, but they omit how Djokodal prevented Murray, Thiem, Tsonga, Ferrer, Berdych, Nishikori, etc. from being ATGs and multiple Slam champions..

Big3 have similar career but somehow only Federer stops players from becoming ATGs :-D
Comparing Roddick to Tsonga, Ferrer, Berdych and Nishikori?

Roddick was WORLD #1 and won 30+ titles.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Big3's most finals won over ATGs:

2011 Djokovic / 2015 Djokovic 9
1970 Laver / 1984 McEnroe / 1985 Lendl 8
1979 Borg 7
1986 Becker / 1988 Becker / 1989 Becker / 2008 Nadal 5
1983 McEnroe / 1987 Edberg / 2006 Nadal / 2009 Nadal / 1969 Laver / 1986 Lendl / 1987 Lendl / 1994 Sampras / 1995 Agassi / 1995 Sampras / 2012 Djokovic / 2013 Djokovic / 2014 Djokovic / 2016 Djokovic 4

Federer never won more than 3 finals against ATGs in a season in his career.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
Finals won vs ATGs:

FEDERER

2004 - 0
2005 - 1
2006 - 1
2007 - 2
2008 - 1
2009 - 2

total: 7

NADAL

2008 - 5
2009 - 4
2010 - 2
2011 - 1
2012 - 3
2013 - 2

total: 17

DJOKOVIC

2011 - 9
2012 - 4
2013 - 4
2014 - 4
2015 - 9
2016 - 4

total: 34
 
Last edited:

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Most wins over ATGs (10+ Slam finalists) in a season:

1) 1984 McEnroe 17
2) 1985 Lendl 16
3) 1970 Laver / 2015 Djokovic 15
5) 1987 Lendl 13
6) 1979 Borg 12 / 1989 Becker 12 / 1990 Edberg 12
9) 2011 Djokovic 12
10) 1971 Laver / 1986 Becker 11 / 1995 Agassi 11 / 2008 Nadal 11
14) 1969 Laver 10
15) 1970 Rosewall 9 / 1989 Edberg 9 / 1994 Sampras 9 / 2007 Nadal 9
19) 1980 Borg / 1987 Edberg / 1988 Becker / 1989 Lendl / 1991 Courier / 1995 Sampras / 2012 Djokovic / 2014 Djokovic 8

Federer's best season (7 wins in 2010) is at #27 place (EDITED) , tied with other seasons.
Because Roddick, Baghdatis, and Gravinboginagis aren't ATG's unfortunately.
 

Lew II

G.O.A.T.
So beating top10 players is more important than winning tournaments and becoming the best player in the world?

You've got a special coconut.
I think Roddick should be happy with the career and the competition he had and shouldn't deserve to be an ATG.
 

Nole_King

Professional
Ok let's write off Murray (who is an ATG for me, anyway):

2011 Djokovic 10
2015 Djokovic 9
2008 Nadal 8
2007 Nadal 7
2013 Nadal 7
2013 Nadal had 4 wins against a Federer that was losing to the likes of ... I don't even remember their names .....

Ultimately the stat that you are presenting is basically the H2H stats among the Big 3.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
let me guess, he played 129 matches vs ATGs that were at least 6 years older than he is?

could you for example expand:
Becker age in 1986 and the age of the ATGs he defeated in 1986?
Becker age in 1989 and the age of the ATGs he defeated in 1989?
Nadal age in 2007 and the age of the ATGs he defeated in 2007?

you know, just asking for a friend
Rosewall was 35 in 1970. Most of the ATG he defeated were about 5-10 years younger.
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Takeaway: Rod Laver, who won the Open Era CYGS at the ripe old age of 31, followed up this performance by beating 15 ATG players at age 32. He then followed up that year by beating 11 ATG players at the age of 33.

Laver is the only one at age 30+ to rack up 10+ wins against an ATG in the same season. And he pulled this off twice. And those two seasons were immediately after he won the Open Era CYGS.

I think that this is the best case that anyone has built for Laver being the 2nd best player ever(MuryGOAT is #1 by the reflexive property). The irony here is that Lew built this case accidentally by trying to trash Federer for the 1,000,000th time.

Folks, Sir Lew just accidentally discovered penicillin.
I didn't know penicillin was discovered accidentally until reading your comment now.

Lew has done us all a great service with this thread.
 

blablavla

Legend
Rosewall was 35 in 1970. Most of the ATG he defeated were about 5-10 years younger.
can you provide details on the cases I mentioned?

can you perhaps split the OP into defeats over ATGs that are older than the winner, and defeats over ATGs that are younger that the winner?
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Rosewall was 35 in 1970. Most of the ATG he defeated were about 5-10 years younger.
Only slam he won over a relative ATG was over Newcombe in 1970. And I say relative because Newcombe "only" had 5 slams, so it's up for debate whether he was an ATG.
 
Top