Most wins over top ranked players in a season

2005 Federer

no.2 Hewitt
no.2 Hewitt
no.4 Roddick
no.4 Hewitt
no.5 Safin
no.5 Roddick

2011 Djokovic

no.1 Nadal
no.1 Nadal
no.1 Nadal
no.1 Nadal
no.1 Nadal
no.2 Federer
no.2 Federer
no.2 Federer
no.3 Federer
no.4 Murray
no.5 Murray
no.5 Soderling
 
Lew II said:
Why do you people always give Federer victories he didn't get? He didn't beat all those top players and you can't know if he could have.

And Nishikori, Berdych are only a little part of them. Here is for example the top-5 players beat by 2006 Federer, and by 2015 Djokovic:

2006 Federer

no.2 Nadal
no.2 Nadal
no.3 Nalbandian
no.3 Nalbandian
no.4 Nalbandian
no.5 Ljubicic
no.5 Roddick
no.5 Davydenko

2015 Djokovic

no.2 Federer
no.2 Federer
no.2 Federer
no.2 Federer
no.2 Murray
no.3 Federer
no.3 Murray
no.3 Murray
no.4 Murray
no.4 Murray
no.4 Wawrinka
no.4 Wawrinka
no.5 Nadal
no.5 Nadal
no.5 Wawrinka
no.5 Berdych
Click to expand...


Answer the "How is it Fed's fault that top 11-100 were strong enough to challenge top 10"

And yes, I am assuming that a guy who won 11 Slams could win against a top 10 player who could not beat a top 11-100. Here is the thing you don't get. If a guy ranked 100 beats a guy ranked at 8, then the guy ranked at 100 is playing better and more difficult to beat.

Second, you don't choose who you can play. In the end, you're penalising Fedr for something completely out of his control.

Third, List the H2H of Fedr with Murray, Berdych, Wawa, Soderling (the guys you mentioned in your list as so called strong opponents of Djokovic). He has a winning H2H against all of them, especially in Slams.
 
Djokovic and Nadal peaking in the total homogenisation era helps. Years where the tour is super friendly to top players with similar court speeds, masters have byes and no BO5 format to tire them out etc...no wonder they had lots of meetings ;)

Also lol at 2015 Nadal as a top 5 player that year. Top quality wins those :-D
 
Eren said:
Answer the "How is it Fed's fault that top 11-100 were strong enough to challenge top 10"
Click to expand...
Not his fault, but he didn't earn it either. He was lucky, not guilty.

Eren said:
And yes, I am assuming that a guy who won 11 Slams could win against a top 10 player who could not beat a top 11-100. Here is the thing you don't get. If a guy ranked 100 beats a guy ranked at 8, then the guy ranked at 100 is playing better and more difficult to beat.
Click to expand...
Level of play is not constant in two weeks. As a simple demonstration, when non-ATGs reached slam finals and played an ATG, they lost over 80% of times (I don't remember the exact percentage).

Eren said:
Second, you don't choose who you can play. In the end, you're penalising Fedr for something completely out of his control.
Click to expand...
All I can do is rate his actual achievements.

Eren said:
Third, List the H2H of Fedr with Murray, Berdych, Wawa, Soderling (the guys you mentioned in your list as so called strong opponents of Djokovic). He has a winning H2H against all of them, especially in Slams.
Click to expand...
With Murray he struggled a lot, especially when he was younger. And don't forget the Big3 Djoko had to beat. Plus, let's say Federer was heavy favourite to beat those players in 1 match, but what about meeting 3 of them in a row, for example? It would make a defeat much more realistic.
 
NatF said:
Djokovic and Nadal peaking in the total homogenisation era helps. Years where the tour is super friendly to top players with similar court speeds, masters have byes and no BO5 format to tire them out etc...no wonder they had lots of meetings ;)

Also lol at 2015 Nadal as a top 5 player that year. Top quality wins those :-D
Click to expand...

2016-18 is still ''homogenization'' era and top players were not very consistent.

Lendl and McEnroe beat tons of top players without ''homogenization''.

And let's not forget that Federer was competitive in the years Djokovic/Nadal dominated, he could have dominated himself. He will start 2019 as no.3. It is strange to limit his peak to 4 years in a 15 years high level career.
 
Why do I write long answers, I just have to keep posting these kind of stats, I'm sure deep inside them they know they're wrong.
 
Lew II said:
2016-18 is still homogenization era and top players were not very consistent.

Lendl and McEnroe beat tons of top players in an era which is not known for homogenization.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the 80's had incredible competition. I think most people agree that 2016-2018 has been quite bad, with the top players declining and the next gen taking it's sweet time to mature.

You only addressed one part of my reply as well - what about an extra round at each masters event? What about BO5 final's? Much easier to be consistent when you have a softer schedule. The stats actually bare this out somewhat with Federer having 3 wins over the top 5 (4 meetings) in slams versus Djokovic's 4 wins (4 meetings), at the YEC Federer had 3 wins (3 meetings) and Djokovic 2 wins (3 meetings). The big gap is basically in the masters tournaments where Djokovic obviously outperformed Federer with more titles and finals etc...

In the slams and YEC both Federer in 2006 and Djokovic in 2015 had exactly the same number of meetings and wins over the top 5. The format of ATP events in the two years is quite different with even events such as Basel having BO5 finals. So IMO it's not so simple when looking at their masters records.

Lew II said:
Why do I write long answers, I just have to keep posting these kind of stats, I'm sure deep inside them they know they're wrong.
Click to expand...

I agree, why bother when they get gripped to shreds anyway...
 
NatF said:
Indeed, the 80's had incredible competition. I think most people agree that 2016-2018 has been quite bad, with the top players declining and the next gen taking it's sweet time to mature.

You only addressed one part of my reply as well - what about an extra round at each masters event? What about BO5 final's? Much easier to be consistent when you have a softer schedule. The stats actually bare this out somewhat with Federer having 3 wins over the top 5 (4 meetings) in slams versus Djokovic's 4 wins (4 meetings), at the YEC Federer had 3 wins (3 meetings) and Djokovic 2 wins (3 meetings). The big gap is basically in the masters tournaments where Djokovic obviously outperformed Federer with more titles and finals etc...

In the slams and YEC both Federer in 2006 and Djokovic in 2015 had exactly the same number of meetings and wins over the top 5. The format of ATP events in the two years is quite different with even events such as Basel having BO5 finals. So IMO it's not so simple when looking at their masters records.



I agree, why bother when they get gripped to shreds anyway...
Click to expand...

The new masters system made it a bit easier to meet top players but at the same time it made harder to win the tournament. You have to beat more constantly the top players. That's why Djokovic's domination in the masters is not a joke.

The Bo3 final makes a bit harder for the best player to win too IMO, the better player emerges in a longer match.

In slams I don't think Federer beat as high ranked players as Djokovic did. He had better results so he played more rounds, probably this is the reason he beat as many top players.
 
Last edited:
Lew II said:
The new masters system made it a bit easier to meet top players but at the same time it made harder to win the tournament. You have to beat more constantly the top players. That's why Djokovic's record in the masters is not a joke.

The Bo3 final makes a bit harder for the best player to win too IMO, the better player emerges in the long term.

In slams I don't think Federer beat as high ranked players as Djokovic did. He had better results so he played more rounds, probably this is the reason he beat as many top players.
Click to expand...

Federer 2006 and Djokovic 2015 had the same results in slams + YEC aside from a RR loss from Djok...like honestly are you even aware of tennis outside of your stats bubble? Also nice try shifting the goalposts, first it was top 5 players now it's "top players".

I never commented on whether it was harder to win old style masters or new style masters man. My point was that it was more draining for the top players to compete in them due to the longer format, more chance of an upset with more rounds etc...

As I pointed out across the biggest 5 events Fed and Djok were neck and neck in wins over top 5 players - which is a metric you yourself brought up. The main difference is Djokovic beating waaaay more players in the masters events, which is harder to compare due to the changes in formatting.

TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Im not sure if being popular is what @Lew II is trying do.

It was rather a freudonian slip from your side ;)
Click to expand...

No one wants to be disliked though right? I never said Lew was trying to be popular.

And I never slip :cool:
 
Lew II said:
I'd like to be popular, but I find something cool in being unpopular too.

And thinking about it, this may be in some way how my man Djoker feels towards the crowds too. Maybe that's why I like him.:unsure::laughing:
Click to expand...
Look at whats the most popular in the world, thats not always something to strive for, being like that.

Personally I like people that got their own opinions and not afraid to say what it is even though it’s not popular.
For me in a way when people are brave and open, makes me feel safer w them. I know their loyalty is in their hearts.
To get Novak’s loyalty would mean so much more to me than a type like Federer as he just want to be loved and being popular. Can’t be trusted the ones who wants to be popular as they are not emotionally grounded. It’s loads of those kind of people. Just look at how people struggle to get likes everywhere.
 
BrokenGears said:
If anything, Lew really makes the Trollerans come out in full salt force
Click to expand...

1fijoo.jpg
 
NatF said:
Federer 2006 and Djokovic 2015 had the same results in slams + YEC aside from a RR loss from Djok...like honestly are you even aware of tennis outside of your stats bubble? Also nice try shifting the goalposts, first it was top 5 players now it's "top players".
Click to expand...
Top-5 beat in Grand Slams (YEC is a totally different tournament, with only the top-8):

2004-09 Federer: 17 ---> 1.21 for every title, 0.85 for every final, 0.74 for every semifinal

2011-16 Djokovic: 21 ---> 1.91 for every title, 1.17 for every final, 1 for every semifinal


NatF said:
I never commented on whether it was harder to win old style masters or new style masters man. My point was that it was more draining for the top players to compete in them due to the longer format, more chance of an upset with more rounds etc...
Click to expand...
IMO winning the new masters takes more energy, since you have to beat more top players.
 
Lew II said:
Top-5 beat in Grand Slams

2004-09 Federer: 17 ---> 1.21 for every title, 0.85 for every final, 0.74 for every semifinal

2011-16 Djokovic: 21 ---> 1.91 for every title, 1.17 for every final, 1 for every semifinal
Click to expand...

2008-13 Nadal: 16 ---> 1.6 for every title, 1.23 for every final, 1 for every semifinal
 
Lew II said:
Top-5 beat in Grand Slams (YEC is a totally different tournament, with only the top-8):

2004-09 Federer: 17 ---> 1.21 for every title, 0.85 for every final, 0.74 for every semifinal

2011-16 Djokovic: 21 ---> 1.91 for every title, 1.17 for every final, 1 for every semifinal
Click to expand...

Shifting the goalposts again :-D

Nice dodging of the fact you didn't even know Fed and Djok had the same slam results in 2006 vs 2015 as well.

IMO winning the new masters takes more energy, since you have to beat more top players.
Click to expand...

Doubtful, an extra round and possible BO5 final cuts out on rest time between tournaments and definitely adds more time on court (on average) then however much longer it takes to paste Murray or whoever in straight sets.
 
Lew II said:
Why do you people always give Federer victories he didn't get? He didn't beat all those top players and you can't know if he could have.

And Nishikori, Berdych are only a little part of them. Here is for example the top-5 players beat by 2006 Federer, and by 2015 Djokovic:

2006 Federer

no.2 Nadal
no.2 Nadal
no.3 Nalbandian
no.3 Nalbandian
no.4 Nalbandian
no.5 Ljubicic
no.5 Roddick
no.5 Davydenko

2015 Djokovic

no.2 Federer
no.2 Federer
no.2 Federer
no.2 Federer
no.2 Murray
no.3 Federer
no.3 Murray
no.3 Murray
no.4 Murray
no.4 Murray
no.4 Wawrinka
no.4 Wawrinka
no.5 Nadal
no.5 Nadal
no.5 Wawrinka
no.5 Berdych
Click to expand...
2006 Federer

41-5 vs once top 5

2015 Djokovic

33-5 vs once top 5
 
Lew II said:
"once" LOL

Anyone could reach top-5 in those times, meaningless stat. Ljubicic has the same best ranking as Wawrinka, Blake as Berdych, and Robredo as Tsonga.
Click to expand...

Even if you removed wins against all those players Federer still had more meetings than Djokovic ;)
 
Lew II said:
Everyone looks better when a 15 years generation has only Federer as an ATG.
Click to expand...

yeah, you are just in denial that an ATG from the next gen was already in there as major competition from the 2nd year of Federer's prime - 2005 - his name was Rafael Nadal.

Nadal from 2005-2010 > Nadal from 2011-2016 (by a significant distance)

Also ATG from generations previous, called Agassi was there in 2004-05 playing pretty well on HC.
 
Players who reached top-5 best ranking by year:

1973 4
1974 6
1975 1
1976 1
1977 2
1978 2
1979 1
1980 3
1981 1
1982
1983 1
1984 1
1985 2
1986 2
1987
1988 3
1989
1990 3
1991 2
1992 1
1993 2
1994 3
1995 1
1996 2
1997 2
1998 2
1999 7
2000 4
2001 2
2002 4
2003 2
2004 3
2005 1
2006 5
2007 1
2008 1
2009
2010 1
2011 1
2012 1
2013 1
2014 1
2015 2
2016 2
2017 3
2018 3
 
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