Mouratoglou: straight arm is the ideal position for the FH

[Jonesy]

He basically said that Novak doesn't have the arm in the ideal position on his FH because of his extreme grip (impossible to have SA), in other words, if you don't use an extreme grip you should be hitting your FH with a straight arm a la Alcaraz/Rune etc.

If your grip is Eastern, SW or something in between you should have SA on FH.

Do you agree with the master of tennis?

 

[Rosstour]

PM is no dummy. Even knowing how sketch he is, I like his insights.

 

[travlerajm]

Considering that my forehand sucks and it’s not straight, he’s probably right.

 

[socallefty]

There is no one way to hit a FH that is ideal. There are guys with great FHs that are straight arm and guys with great FHs that are bent arm. The most popular FH grip amongst advanced players these days is the SW grip and you find players of both elbow bend types with that grip. It shows that all the other fundamentals discussed in the video which are rarely missing in any pro are the things to focus on and not the ‘ideal‘ position of the elbow bend. If pros do 8 out of 10 things the same way and differ on 2 things (grip, elbow bend), let’s focus while coaching (or learning) on the 8 common things rather than the 2 things where there is variance. No use debating those two things when there are many pros who are highly accomplished with either style.

Novak was hitting FHs at >80mph average pace in the AO and even higher by 2mph in the final when he bullied Tsitsipas on the FH wing - just like he did with another FH specialist Ruud in the FO final. Why would it be a non-ideal way to hit a FH considering what he has won throughout his career and how well he is hitting his FH at his advanced age for a pro?

 

[Curious]

I don’t think 80% of professional players will do something not technically ideal.

 

[LOBALOT]

Why would anyone listen to him. He doesn't know tennis and is not a good coach. He is a good self promoter.

 

[mental midget]

He basically said that Novak doesn't have the arm in the ideal position on his FH because of his extreme grip (impossible to have SA), in other words, if you don't use an extreme grip you should be hitting your FH with a straight arm a la Alcaraz/Rune etc.

If your grip is Eastern, SW or something in between you should have SA on FH.

Do you agree with the master of tennis?

it makes the best use of the kinetic chain, honestly he's probably right BUT it's also a harder shot to pull off...more demanding from a footwork and timing perspective. so i mean, if you can do it, i guess?

 

[ballmachineguy]

You actually have to force yourself (by keeping muscles contracted) to swing with a bent arm. If you relax and rotate your body back and forth, your arms swing straight. It is natural. But we are playing tennis, so whatever makes you hit the ball better is better.

 

[Bender]

Considering that my forehand sucks and it’s not straight, he’s probably right.

My forehand also sucks despite the fact that it’s straight, so the only thing I can come up with is that given it’s pride month, Mouratoglou is being homophobic.

 

[Dragy]

What is quite evident with this topic, and Novak’s technique evolution shows it, straighter is better than more bent. Djokovic, Thiem, Zverev and many others have improved their spacing and come to using nearly-straight arm during their career.

PM is also right with him linking arm straightness to grip. You cannot successfully use fully straight arm with grip past true SW (Nadal, Alcaraz), as you will have hard time achieving closed enough racquet face with Eastern grip and double-bent arm structure.

Whether elbow should be locked-out straight seems less significant, if not in favor of just-bent.

 

[Wurm]

Far too slow a forehand. He should've used a straight arm technique.

 

[zill]

I don’t think 80% of professional players will do something not technically ideal.

Oh wow, an insightful comment at last!

And no, I don't agree with PM.

 

[ppma]

Practical logic.

He is No. #1, so whatever he does should be considered ideal.

 

[Dragy]

Practical logic.

He is No. #1, so whatever he does should be considered ideal.

He was No. 1 in different periods. But his FH has become truly GOAT level only several years ago. But if it’s ideal or best in the game - not sure.

He’s a complete player, whose overall techniques, fitness, mental, tactical parts are in great synergy and altogether better than anyone else. That’s ideal about him, as good as it could be.

 

[Curious]

Disregard what Moratoglu says. This guy explains the ideal mechanics of tennis forehand and serve from 4:01! ( ideal take back, ideal hand and elbow position and that, everything is there)

 

[zill]

Disregard what Moratoglu says. This guy explains the ideal mechanics of tennis forehand and serve from 4:01! ( ideal take back, ideal hand and elbow position and that, everything is there)

This belongs in another forum/website.

 

[Slicehand]

I think it really has to do with your ideal contact point depending on your body, nobody should be forced to hit with a straight or bent arm, in my opinion its something that comes naturally once you get the fundamentals

 

[HitMoreBHs]

Disregard what Moratoglu says. This guy explains the ideal mechanics of tennis forehand and serve from 4:01! ( ideal take back, ideal hand and elbow position and that, everything is there)

But, but… Nikola says the serve is not a throwing motion!

 

[Curious]

But, but… Nikola says the serve is not a throwing motion!

Clickbait. I don't think he believes that.

 

[StringSnapper]

PM is no dummy. Even knowing how sketch he is, I like his insights.

Why is he sketch?

 

[HitMoreBHs]

Clickbait. I don't think he believes that.

Agreed. Nikola obviously loves being contrary as it generates clicks and comments.

 

[zill]

Clickbait. I don't think he believes that.

Disregard what Moratoglu says. This guy explains the ideal mechanics of tennis forehand and serve from 4:01! ( ideal take back, ideal hand and elbow position and that, everything is there)

The racquet is an extension of the arm. And your hitting something as opposed to throwing something. In this way the two are different.

In tennis you have something in your hand to hit with. In throwing you have nothing external other than a ball which you intend to throw. There may be some similarities between the two (eg tennis and soccer would be even more different to each other) but they are mostly different.

 

[ppma]

But, but… Nikola says the serve is not a throwing motion!

Nik is just thirsty for visits, likes and subscriptions. He's made crazy statements like no power comes from the legs bottom-up, or that lighter and stiffer racquets are better for tennis elbow. It's just pointless at this time.

 

[Jonesy]

As someone who uses a western grip on the FH i always used a bent arm. A few days ago i decided to hit some FHs with a SW grip but the bent arm felt so weird and wonky with this grip, hard to control, hard to let go, just felt wrong. Then i remembered Alcaraz FH and decided to try SA: damn, the thing just became alive, so loose and fast, i could pull the trigger anytime with it.

Perhaps it is personal and it clicked only with me, but i finally understood how to make the SW grip work. That is why i decided to create this thread considering i already knew Mouratoglou's take on the FH.

 

[ppma]

Yes... I've stated this here before. Straight arm is more advantageous mechanically to get power and spin. If one simply thinks of the shoulder-arm-racquet as a two pivot pendulum, straight arm takes produces the highest racquet head acceleration.

A part of control is lost and timing is somewhat more demanding, but damn, dude, if you hit them well...

 

[coolvinny]

I think straighter is better vs highly bent, but I don’t think a bent arm FH which is nearly straight (or reasonably unbent) is inferior to a straight arm forehand. If too bent then spacing is probably insufficient and the shorter lever reduces pace. Djokovic is good example of bent arm forehand but still a long lever and with lots of space.

 

[ballmachineguy]

A part of control is lost and timing is somewhat more demanding, but damn, dude, if you hit them well...

Care to explain?

 

[Curious]

The racquet is an extension of the arm. And your hitting something as opposed to throwing something. In this way the two are different.

In tennis you have something in your hand to hit with. In throwing you have nothing external other than a ball which you intend to throw. There may be some similarities between the two (eg tennis and soccer would be even more different to each other) but they are mostly different.

Throw is a swing. Whether or not you let go of the thing you’re holding doesn’t change what it is. You can toss a ball and throw another ball at it or you can throw the “head” of a racket at it!

 

[zill]

Throw is a swing. Whether or not you let go of the thing you’re holding doesn’t change what it is. You can toss a ball and throw another ball at it or you can throw the “head” of a racket at it!

All I know is I have worked out pretty much all the essentials of how to hit the tennis ball .... like the pros but without ANY thought to throwing a ball of any kind. I do admit I have never thought about the throwing motion and probably do not know how to throw a ball properly but that has not affected my tennis one inkling.

 

[Curious]

All I know is I have worked out pretty much all the essentials of how to hit the tennis ball .... like the pros

I guess that means you no longer blame your technique for your errors, which is a big step for your tennis improvement as you can now focus on what matters most: footwork and shot selection, something I haven’t heard you talk about at all in the last 5 years.

 

[zill]

I guess that means you no longer blame your technique for your errors, which is a big step for your tennis improvement as you can now focus on what matters most: footwork and shot selection, something I haven’t heard you talk about at all in the last 5 years.

Actually I deduced that footwork is extremely simply in tennis ... after working out the technique (i.e how to properly hit a tennis ball). The footwork 'comes along for the ride' basically, if you allow it to and being physically fit enough. The correct technique basically dictates the required/correct footwork in the situation. Although if your technique is off then your footwork will be suboptimal as well and may require you to 'think' about it which adds to the burden.


Fitness though is another matter (ball game) all together and my no 1 challenge now.

 

[socallefty]

All forehand’s below 80mph and below 3000 rpm are not ideal however you hit it. All FHs above 80mph and above 3000 rpm that you hit into the court especially with some depth or angle are ideal - however you hit it.

 

[ballmachineguy]

All forehand’s below 80mph and below 3000 rpm are not ideal however you hit it. All FHs above 80mph and above 3000 rpm that you hit into the court especially with some depth or angle are ideal - however you hit it.

Are the >80mph and 3000rpm balls the same ball? Or just want to be hitting one or the other benchmark?

 

[Slicehand]

does tomic hit with a straight arm? no, so you dont need it to be the goat

 

[StringSnapper]

does tomic hit with a straight arm? no, so you dont need it to be the goat

I thought the lord did

 

[Curtennis]

Far too slow a forehand. He should've used a straight arm technique.

Who am I looking upon?

 

[optic yellow]

Actually I deduced that footwork is extremely simply in tennis ... after working out the technique (i.e how to properly hit a tennis ball). The footwork 'comes along for the ride' basically, if you allow it to and being physically fit enough. The correct technique basically dictates the required/correct footwork in the situation. Although if your technique is off then your footwork will be suboptimal as well and may require you to 'think' about it which adds to the burden.


Fitness though is another matter (ball game) all together and my no 1 challenge now.

This is correct.

 

[Jonesy]

Who am I looking upon?

Thiem.

 

[papado]

Who am I looking upon?

Fernando Gonzalez

 

[ballmachineguy]

Thiem.

Still have the iPhone 6?

 

[ppma]

Care to explain?

With straight arm contact point is further from the body, and hitting in the sweetspot demands a little more precision as compared to semi bent arm.

 

[TennisCJC]

I think SA is better but obviously either can be extremely good. There is a tendency for SW to W grips to be more bent arm for some reason. Only thing I'll say is try to avoid the extreme bend where the elbow is tucked into the rib cage and all other techniques are good.

 

[optic yellow]

I think SA is better but obviously either can be extremely good. There is a tendency for SW to W grips to be more bent arm for some reason. Only thing I'll say is try to avoid the extreme bend where the elbow is tucked into the rib cage and all other techniques are good.

You more or less can't hit a W forehand with the arm straight. I'm not sure why but it feels completely off.

 

[zill]

PM is now proposing to just arm the ball. Getting more and more ridiculous.

 

[Jonesy]

PM is now proposing to just arm the ball. Getting more and more ridiculous.

Calm down, i can see the direction where he is going, everything will make sense when he teaches the PoMo:

 

[5263]

Very funny how this idea that a SA is better in some way seems to persists despite no evidence I"ve ever seen that amounted to anything. PM saying it gives me even more cause for doubt.

 

[Slicehand]

I just dont see it as a game changing factor, there are many more things that can put a forehand above another, rune has straight arm and has quite an average forehand, sampras, wawrinka, djokovic... a lot of bent arms are and have been some of the best forehands ever

 

[ballmachineguy]

PM is now proposing to just arm the ball. Getting more and more ridiculous.

No more ridiculous than the “ground-up” kinetic chain or shifting your weight into the shot.

 

[coolvinny]

PM is now proposing to just arm the ball. Getting more and more ridiculous.

There is a difference bad arming the ball without the shoulder (and which will result in late contact), vs keeping the body fairly stable while throwing the shoulder forward. The latter is a sound stroke…and that’s what’s happening in the video. I think the words PM uses are oversimplifying but if you watch what he demonstrates you can see the body (esp torso rotation) is still involved to shift weight forward when throwing the shoulder forward.

 

[Dragy]

Very funny how this idea that a SA is better in some way seems to persists despite no evidence I"ve ever seen that amounted to anything. PM saying it gives me even more cause for doubt.

Is it important in your opinion how bent is it? E.g. Tiafoe vs Djokovic?