Moya: For Rafael Nadal, ATP Finals loss was tougher to accept than Australian Open loss

King No1e said:
Goes to show you Nadal definitely cares about that one last check on his resume. He's got 5 of the 6 Infinity Stones, once he gets WTF and the Super Slam, he can snap the GOAT race out of existence
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Do you really need this to show you something that is not only pretty much obvious, but already confirmed by Nadal himself in interviews.
As for the GOAT race, I don't think it's that simple.
 
I was the opposite. I knew Nadal would benefit from losers like Dimitrov, Zverev, Tsitsipas, Medvedev winning the ATP Finals.
The more they win it, the more meaningless the event becomes.
Whereas if Nadal won it, people would keep saying how "Nadal only won it once, while Djokovic and Federer won it 5 times each".
It doesn't matter how many times Djokovic/Federer won the ATP Finals, because losers keep winning it every year.
 
NADALalot said:
I was the opposite. I knew Nadal would benefit from losers like Dimitrov, Zverev, Tsitsipas, Medvedev winning the ATP Finals.
The more they win it, the more meaningless the event becomes.
Whereas if Nadal won it, people would keep saying how "Nadal only won it once, while Djokovic and Federer won it 5 times each".
It doesn't matter how many times Djokovic/Federer won the ATP Finals, because losers keep winning it every year.
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Have you ever wondered if you are, in fact, out of your mind? Because you speak like you are.
 
BeatlesFan said:
What was silly was Rafa slicing constantly, thinking that would somehow disrupt Medvedev's rhythm.
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It very much did, good thing Medvedev found a way to adjust at the last minute. What Nadal did wrong was not responding to that by adjusting his own gameplan, which got exposed in the third set.
 
skaj said:
Do you really need this to show you something that is not only pretty much obvious, but already confirmed by Nadal himself in interviews.
As for the GOAT race, I don't think it's that simple.
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It isn't, but having all 4 Slams + OG + WTF and the Slam record puts him in a very good position against Fedovic.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Have you ever wondered if you are, in fact, out of your mind? Because you speak like you are.
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Well I'm only stating the obvious. The more scrubs win an event, the less meaningful the event becomes.

AnOctorokForDinner said:
Must have been really exciting to suddenly get a great opportunity to finally vulture the YEC, thankfully Madweed came to his senses just in time to prevent such a disgusting outcome.
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It didn't look like a great opportunity to me.
Thiem has the edge over Nadal on hardcourts of late, so if Nadal made the Final the odds are he'd have lost to Thiem.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Thanks for proving WB and USO > AO and RG.
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Roland Garros is the yardstick for greatness.
Look at the list of Champions since 2005.
Also, the best players in the world feel most comfortable at Roland Garros.

Australian Open 2019, Quarter-Finals = 1, 2, 8, 14, 16, 22, 28, unseeded
Australian Open 2019, Semi-finals = 1, 2, 14, 28

Roland Garros 2019, Quarter-Finals = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10, 24
Roland Garros 2019, Semi-Finals = 1, 2, 3, 4

Wimbledon 2019, Quarter-Finals = 1, 2, 3, 8, 21, 23, 26, unseeded
Wimbledon 2019, Semi-Finals = 1, 2, 3, 23

US Open 2019, Quarter-Finals = 2, 3, 5, 13, 20, 23, 24, unseeded
US Open 2019, Semi-finals = 2, 5, 24, unseeded

And the only top 8 seeds to miss the Roland Garros QF was Tsitsipas (lost to French Open Champ Wawrinka-24) and Del Potro (lost to rising star Khachanov-10).
 
I’m sure he was upset that he lost, but let’s add some context to the thread title. He was more upset about losing to the Mad Lad than he was when he lost to Timmy. The YEC loss hurt more because he was serving for a straights win. He ended up playing a terrible game to get broken and went on to he lose in the deciding set. Whereas in the AO, even if he beat Timmy and made the F he’s probably losing to Joker. So, not much to be upset about.

RAFA has said multiple times that the loss that bothers him most is the 2014 AO F. If I had to guess, his 2nd biggest upsetting loss would be the 2007 Wimby F.
 
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Thanks for proving WB and USO > AO and RG.
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He said "the more scrubs win an event, the worse it is". I don't like the expression "scrub", but he obviously meant lesser players or non-ATGs. In the last decade the USO has been won by more non-Big 3 players (Murray, Wawrinka, Cilic or Thiem) than RG (Wawrinka), and so by his logic RG > USO. Therefore your comment is wrong, as he indeed confirmed the opposite of what you asserted.
 
NADALalot said:
Roland Garros is the yardstick for greatness.
Look at the list of Champions since 2005.
Also, the best players in the world feel most comfortable at Roland Garros.

Australian Open 2019, Quarter-Finals = 1, 2, 8, 14, 16, 22, 28, unseeded
Australian Open 2019, Semi-finals = 1, 2, 14, 28

Roland Garros 2019, Quarter-Finals = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10, 24
Roland Garros 2019, Semi-Finals = 1, 2, 3, 4

Wimbledon 2019, Quarter-Finals = 1, 2, 3, 8, 21, 23, 26, unseeded
Wimbledon 2019, Semi-Finals = 1, 2, 3, 23

US Open 2019, Quarter-Finals = 2, 3, 5, 13, 20, 23, 24, unseeded
US Open 2019, Semi-finals = 2, 5, 24, unseeded

And the only top 8 seeds to miss the Roland Garros QF was Tsitsipas (lost to French Open Champ Wawrinka-24) and Del Potro (lost to rising star Khachanov-10).
Click to expand...

Now look back before Nadal began to hoard argees endlessly.
 
King No1e said:
Goes to show you Nadal definitely cares about that one last check on his resume. He's got 5 of the 6 Infinity Stones, once he gets WTF and the Super Slam, he can snap the GOAT race out of existence
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Yeah well. All of the Big 3 have that one missing hole such will probably never be filled. Nobody is gonna end up with a “perfect resume” and the GOAT debate will rage on and on.
 
Shouldn't have choked then. It's time he actually learns how to not get so tight under pressure like he always does nowadays. Always go for the kill
 
I think the loss to Medvedev at the WTF was an example of a player executing a new strategy that addresses the other player’s weakness, but was counterproductive as it took away the player‘s own rhythm and optimal point patterns. Thiem was very successful hitting many slice BHs at the USO against Med and Rafa decided to copy him. While it was somewhat effective, it seemed to take away Rafa’s own BH rhythm and he made tons of unforced errors while trying to hit his usually solid BH drive late in sets. Rafa’s strength is not variety and he should have stopped once he realized he was making too many BH errors.
 
socallefty said:
I think the loss to Medvedev at the WTF was an example of a player executing a new strategy that addresses the other player’s weakness, but was counterproductive as it took away the player‘s own rhythm and optimal point patterns. Thiem was very successful hitting many slice BHs at the USO against Med and Rafa decided to copy him. While it was somewhat effective, it seemed to take away Rafa’s own BH rhythm and he made tons of unforced errors while trying to hit his usually solid BH drive late in sets. Rafa’s strength is not variety and he should have stopped once he realized he was making too many BH errors.
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Yes, just too much slice. Variety was good but he actually played too much slice. The tactic at the 19 USO was the good one : doing everything, play with variety but still staying true to his gamestyle.
 
Strange as it may seem, it may have been the best chance for Nadal to win WTF in his whole career.

Every other time he arrived in good form to the tournament, he got owned by good versions of Fed and Djokovic in the later stages. There was nothing like that in his way this time, and his losses were all very close - particularly the semi where he blew a set+break lead against the guy who ended up winning every match.
 
PeoplesChamp said:
Nadal was devastated.

www.sportskeeda.com

For Rafael Nadal, ATP Finals loss was tougher to accept than Australian Open loss: Carlos Moya

The season-ending ATP Finals is the only big trophy missing from Rafael Nadal's cabinet.
www.sportskeeda.com www.sportskeeda.com
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This is the most important thing he did this year:

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animated-smileys-laughing-269.gif
 
Umm.... Nadal is the ultimate competitor. He hates losing at anything, whether it's tiddlywinks or PlayStation. Let's not read too much into it.LOL!

Of course he hated losing that match to Medvedev, in particular because he lost it from a position where he should have won the match. To him, it probably felt like a choke. Those defeats always sting the most. If he had lost 62, 62, he'd be a lot less gutted, because he knows he wasn't supposed to win. But he let Medvedev back in the match when he should have finished it.
 
Phoenix1983 said:
Of course it was tough for him to accept.

Nadal, unlike his fanboys, knows how important the YEC is.
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It's tough for him to accept the loss because he choked and he knows it. The losses where you should have won always sting the most. Like 40-15 for Federer

It's not about the tournament. It's the manner of how he lost the match that bothers a competitor like Nadal, who hates losing in the best of circumstances. If Medvedev routined him, he'd probably have been over it within a few hours, because the better guy won. But he gifted his opponent victory. It's not about the WTF being so dear to him, but how he lost that match.

But people who actually understand Nadal's nature would know that already.LOL!
 
skaj said:
He was serving for the match, of course it was difficult to accept.
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Agree. I don't think Moya is making a comment on the status of Australian Open, or WTF. He's looking at the matches in isolation.

Anyone who has played tennis knows there is nothing worse than serving for a match and then losing it. That's going to cause more agitation than a match lost without having the chance to serve it out.

Acapulco a few years ago against Kyrgios would be another example. An immensely frustrating match for Rafa, partly because of Kytgios' behaviour but mainly because of the match points Rafa had and a loss from a commanding position where he normally always capitalizes.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, it's the only missing piece to the collection.

Frankly, winning a second AO really puts him at a rare level by winning every slam twice.

Not sure which is "better" as a fan.
 
I think both things can be true here. In other words Nadal is probably most upset that he lost from a winning position at the WTF, and because he didn't get that chance at the AO it doesn't sting as much, but also that the WTF this year was a huge chance missed to check off the last box. It won't stop him from being the consensus GOAT if he wins the slam race, especially if it's by a 2-3 slam margin. And I think he knows that, but he also knows how important the WTF is to win. Both how much it takes away from his career if he doesn't win and how much it adds to it if he does.
 
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