Moya:"Murray is neither Novak nor Rafa"

vladap

Professional
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/09/moya-murray-neither-novak-nor-rafa/49264/#.UkQk0eJ1qNA

The Spaniard says it is impossible to be No. 1 if a player only focuses on winning Grand Slam titles.

“It is something only do [Novak] Djokovic and [Rafael] Nadal can do. For me, Murray is neither Novak nor Rafa," Moya writes. "He can become one [of those types of players], but right now he is not. In terms of consistency, he is far away. Rafa has made 12 finals in 13 tournaments and has won 10. Djokovic has lost very few matches. Murray—not just this year—is a player who has trouble mentally enduring throughout the year.”

Spot on this Moya, don't you think?
 

m2nk2

Hall of Fame
Yes, I agree. But Murray is tanking the matches, so mentally he's probably fine. This is his strategy of winning grand slams. and it works really well for him.
 

syc23

Professional
History will remember Murray as a more accomplished grand slam champion than the Spanaird clown who lucked out winning his only (clay) slam before the arrival of Nadal.

The fact Murray is able to win the more prestigious slam in this golden era makes it irrelevant whether he is tanking MS1000s in order to peak for slams.

Moya is just bitter that his name is not on the champions board at the All England Club. He really should keep his trap shut by virtue that Murray has won more slams and will most likely add more to his collection.
 

aldeayeah

Legend
Moya is just bitter that his name is not on the champions board at the All England Club
I... don't think that's his motivation, considering that he skipped Wimbledon several times.

However, he's only speaking as a commentator, so why the need to bring his own career into the question? Moya has been writing tennis articles for years, at least in Spanish press.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
I guess, if he writes for the Spanish press, but he's in no position to criticize Murray so harshly.

I have a problem with former pros talking negatively about today's players. Whether it is, or not, it looks like bitterness.
 

Fedinkum

Legend
History will remember Murray as a more accomplished grand slam champion than the Spanaird clown who lucked out winning his only (clay) slam before the arrival of Nadal.

The fact Murray is able to win the more prestigious slam in this golden era makes it irrelevant whether he is tanking MS1000s in order to peak for slams.

Moya is just bitter that his name is not on the champions board at the All England Club. He really should keep his trap shut by virtue that Murray has won more slams and will most likely add more to his collection.
or more likely...history will remember Murry as the Wimbie drought breaker for the Brits. He had achieved something quit extraordinary already and it will take another amazing feat to top that.
 

Sid_Vicious

G.O.A.T.
History will remember Murray as a more accomplished grand slam champion than the Spanaird clown who lucked out winning his only (clay) slam before the arrival of Nadal.

The fact Murray is able to win the more prestigious slam in this golden era makes it irrelevant whether he is tanking MS1000s in order to peak for slams.

Moya is just bitter that his name is not on the champions board at the All England Club. He really should keep his trap shut by virtue that Murray has won more slams and will most likely add more to his collection.
Good lord, someone give this fanboy a pacifier.

Moya said that Murray has a long way to go to reach the consistency of Nadal or Djokovic. You are utterly deluded if you think that statement is false.

You are right, only Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic have the right to analyze Murray's game. Everyone else who makes a statement should be fined heavily for their jealousy towards Murray's beautiful career.

Get real. This is nothing more than constructive criticism. Your bitterness towards Moya just makes you seem like an archetypical fanboy.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
As usual, you have to read the whole article before commenting.

I don't find much to disagree with Moya about. Most of us realise that Murray has never been as consistent as Nadal, Djokovic or Federer in winning big titles. Unlike those 3, Murray has been averaging no more than 2 big titles a year ever since 2008, his breakthrough year for winning biggies. His form this year has been even more erratic than usual probably in part, at least, because of his back injury, so this season is very likely to repeat the earlier ones with Murray winning his usual quota of 2 big titles per season.

It is a tad ironic though that Moya should criticise Murray and Lendl for focussing on the Slams and neglecting the Masters. Prior to 2012, Murray had been racking up the Masters titles but coming a cropper on the very biggest stages and, boy, did he get plenty of stick on here and elsewhere for that. So the switch to emphasis on the Slams was quite understandable and has obviously begun to pay off handsomely. Can't fault either of them for a strategy that has so evidently worked. Since hiring Lendl, Murray has transformed himself from 'No Slams Andy' to 'Multi-Slam Champion Andy'.

That said, it's all a question of finding the right balance. Moya is quite right to point out that the surest way to win Slams is to get yourself in the mood by winning some big warm-up titles beforehand. Prior to winning the USO, Murray had won the Olympic singles gold. Prior to winning Wimbledon, Murray had won Miami and Queens (the latter, although officially only a 250, is still the nearest equivalent to a warm-up grass Masters that we have at the moment). Since Wimbledon however, his form has fallen off drastically hence the failure to defend his USO title in New York or even get past the quarter-finals.

If he is to make serious inroads on the elusive #1 ranking, Murray needs to break out of his pattern of winning no more than 2 big titles per season. His recent back surgery means he will probably not be able to achieve that goal this year but hopefully, he will be able to come back fully fit in 2014 and work on his consistency.

He's proved he can win multiple Masters titles. He's proved he can win multiple Slams. Now he needs to prove he can do both in one season.

So all in all, I found the article to be reasonably accurate and fair.
 
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ripitup

Banned
He just isnt as good as Nadal or Djokovic. Peak level play not quite as high, not as potentially dominant, not as consistent, and not nearly as strong on his worst surface (clay). Still a great player who will probably win 5 or 6 slams and could have won 10+ in most eras, but will be hard pressed to ever get to #1 in this era.
 

ripitup

Banned
That said I do think he could be as successful or more than Djokovic until the end of their careers as I think Novak is already starting to slip outside his prime. Nadal will definitely win more slams than either in the coming years. He wont stop until he breaks Federer's Open Era slam record atleast.
 

ripitup

Banned
The person who said Moya is bitter is clueless. Wouldnt Moya have more reason to be bitter of Nadal and Djokovic, players whose achievements are 10 times more beyond his than Murray's is. Heck Moya has both a slam and has been #1, which Murray as of yet never has.

As for Moya being bitter he never won Wimbledon, Moya never had a wing or prayer of winning Wimbledon and he knew it too. He wouldnt be bitter about something he probably never even fantasized in his chances of winning. Of the 4 majors Wimbledon is the one he always had absolutely zero chance to win, similar to Murray at Roland Garros (well maybe slightly above zero, but not much).
 

RNadal

Professional
When put out of context this phrase may seem harsh, but if you read the article there is nothing wrong with what Moya said. Actually, he's right. Murray has to step up his game on all the biggest tournaments if he ever wants to be number 1, and not only the slams.
 

*Sparkle*

Professional
He's factually right that Murray does need to step up and be more consistent across a wider range of tournaments if he's to be number one. That much is obvious.

The only questionable bit is that Murray is somehow not bothered about those other tournaments. When he gave the interview, he could be forgiven for thinking that, but since giving the interview and it being published, it's become obvious that Murray was struggling with an injury much worse than most presumed. It's now more likely he was going easy in the lower tier tournaments lately as a means to manage the problem, and save himself for the bigger ones, not because he doesn't care.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
As for Moya being bitter he never won Wimbledon, Moya never had a wing or prayer of winning Wimbledon and he knew it too. He wouldnt be bitter about something he probably never even fantasized in his chances of winning. Of the 4 majors Wimbledon is the one he always had absolutely zero chance to win, similar to Murray at Roland Garros (well maybe slightly above zero, but not much).
Murray has reached a semi-final at RG, Moya has never been past the 4th round at Wimbledon so Murray's chances of winning RG would seem to be slightly better than Moya's ever were of winning Wimbledon although admittedly, at this stage, it's not saying a great deal.
 

ripitup

Banned
Murray has reached a semi-final at RG, Moya has never been past the 4th round at Wimbledon so Murray's chances of winning RG would seem to be slightly better than Moya's ever were of winning Wimbledon although admittedly, at this stage, it's not saying a great deal.
I agree. 5% to 0% basically. Moya literally had a better chance to match Nadal's 8 Roland Garros titles than to win a single Wimbledon. Anyone who followed tennis in Moya's prime realizes that if someone suggested the idea of Moya possibly winning the title before any given Wimbledon it would result in huge uncontrolable fits of laughter around the room.

Murray could win a French Open, very unlikely and I doubt it will ever happen, but it could conceivably happen, but it would require him to play the clay court tournament of his life and something happen to both Nadal and Djokovic (aka he cant play either one). At Roland Garros anyone in the top 15 plus some other dangerous good clay courters have a fighting chance vs Murray on any given day though, which is why he made only 1 semifinal there thus far.

He was a good clay courter in 2011 though. Despite being only 4th best on the surface behind the big 3 that year, he still played some very strong stuff on the surface, and came close to beating both Djokovic and Nadal one time each. He might have beaten clay GOAT Nadal at Monte Carlo, his favorite event, had it not been for his wrist injury. Then should have beaten Djokovic in Rome but choked at the end. Also for the first time ever dominating all others besides the big 3 (granted he didnt play Ferrer). Sadly that is the only time thus far.
 

Roddick85

Hall of Fame
Moya is right on this one. But then you dont have to be a brain surgeon to be aware of it.
I'm with you on that. Perhaps this is hurting the Murray fans on these boards, but what Moya says is true. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic have been models in terms of consistency for most of they're career. True champion win on a consistent basis, not just peak for Slams. That is the difference between being #1 in the world and the rest. Let's face it, before Lendl, Murray was always choking mentally during the big matches. Even with 2 slams under his belt now, I still don't believe he's a dominant and consistent player like the other 3. Let's look at the US Open this year, Rafa won all the HC MS-1000 he entered, reached the US Open final without being challenged much, you could tell he was going to win the Open. Same thing for Federer in his glory days or for Novak in 2011. In the 2 slams Murray won, did he look like the man to beat? I don't think so. I think it's possible Murray will win another slam or 2 if he can comeback from his back surgery without too much damage, but I don't think he'll ever be a dominant force or reach and stay #1 in the world if he ever does.
 

nethawkwenatchee

Professional
Andy has become very successful in the past fourteen months at the biggest moments, something Moya or no other would be can take from him. He was dominating and had full momentum going into the Clay season when this disk issue began to take hold. Who knows what challenge he could have forced if he would have been able to continue. To his credit he was able to focus and play through the pain during the grass season, taking Queens and Wimbledon. I'm afraid that took all the strength and focus he had and the back problem just couldn't be ignored any more. He made the QF at the US Open with this pain and that should not be underestimated. Neither should Andy and his place at the top of the Mens Game! Here's to Andy coming back stronger than ever in 2014!!
 

Clarky21

Banned
Andy has become very successful in the past fourteen months at the biggest moments, something Moya or no other would be can take from him. He was dominating and had full momentum going into the Clay season when this disk issue began to take hold. Who knows what challenge he could have forced if he would have been able to continue. To his credit he was able to focus and play through the pain during the grass season, taking Queens and Wimbledon. I'm afraid that took all the strength and focus he had and the back problem just couldn't be ignored any more. He made the QF at the US Open with this pain and that should not be underestimated. Neither should Andy and his place at the top of the Mens Game! Here's to Andy coming back stronger than ever in 2014!!
How in the world was he "dominating" going into the clay season?
 

batz

G.O.A.T.
I'm with you on that. Perhaps this is hurting the Murray fans on these boards, but what Moya says is true. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic have been models in terms of consistency for most of they're career. True champion win on a consistent basis, not just peak for Slams. That is the difference between being #1 in the world and the rest. Let's face it, before Lendl, Murray was always choking mentally during the big matches. Even with 2 slams under his belt now, I still don't believe he's a dominant and consistent player like the other 3. Let's look at the US Open this year, Rafa won all the HC MS-1000 he entered, reached the US Open final without being challenged much, you could tell he was going to win the Open. Same thing for Federer in his glory days or for Novak in 2011. In the 2 slams Murray won, did he look like the man to beat? I don't think so. I think it's possible Murray will win another slam or 2 if he can comeback from his back surgery without too much damage, but I don't think he'll ever be a dominant force or reach and stay #1 in the world if he ever does.
Perhaps you haven't read the entire thread?
 

Delpo Fan

Banned
I'm with you on that. Perhaps this is hurting the Murray fans on these boards, but what Moya says is true. Federer, Nadal, Djokovic have been models in terms of consistency for most of they're career. True champion win on a consistent basis, not just peak for Slams. That is the difference between being #1 in the world and the rest. Let's face it, before Lendl, Murray was always choking mentally during the big matches. Even with 2 slams under his belt now, I still don't believe he's a dominant and consistent player like the other 3. Let's look at the US Open this year, Rafa won all the HC MS-1000 he entered, reached the US Open final without being challenged much, you could tell he was going to win the Open. Same thing for Federer in his glory days or for Novak in 2011. In the 2 slams Murray won, did he look like the man to beat? I don't think so. I think it's possible Murray will win another slam or 2 if he can comeback from his back surgery without too much damage, but I don't think he'll ever be a dominant force or reach and stay #1 in the world if he ever does.
you are absolutely right.
though he have two slams , he don't have confidence .
he is not showing great spirit during big moments.
 

batz

G.O.A.T.
you are absolutely right.
though he have two slams , he don't have confidence .
he is not showing great spirit during big moments.
You're right. The way he folded in that Wimbledon final after losing 3 championship points. And don't get me started on his capitulation in the 5th set of last year's USO.
 

Delpo Fan

Banned
You're right. The way he folded in that Wimbledon final after losing 3 championship points. And don't get me started on his capitulation in the 5th set of last year's USO.
yes he played great tennis at USO ( 5th set) but not at Wimbledon . delpo tired nole too much , giving Murray trophy.
 
N

Nathaniel_Near

Guest
You're right. The way he folded in that Wimbledon final after losing 3 championship points. And don't get me started on his capitulation in the 5th set of last year's USO.
No please, do tell us more!
 

batz

G.O.A.T.
yes he played great tennis at USO ( 5th set) but not at Wimbledon . delpo tired nole too much , giving Murray trophy.
OK - thanks for clarifying for me. Murray only straight setted Nole on Centre Court because Nole was tired. I was wondering how the guy who is currently on a 18 match winning streak on grass was able to fluke a win against the grasscourt legend that is Novak.

So how do you explain Noles's other straight sets defeat to Murray on Centre Court?
 

Incognito

Legend
To be number 1 means you have to be consistent, and Moya is right. However, I remember in one of Andy's interviews that he prefers winning majors than getting the number 1 ranking. IMO, he doesn't mind the fact that he is not as consistent as the other two as long as he wins majors every year..
 

Delpo Fan

Banned
OK - thanks for clarifying for me. Murray only straight setted Nole on Centre Court because Nole was tired. I was wondering how the guy who is currently on a 18 match winning streak on grass was able to fluke a win against the grasscourt legend that is Novak.

So how do you explain Noles's other straight sets defeat to Murray on Centre Court?
I think this thread is for discussing Murray's inconsistency.
he is inconsistent , what you say?
 

batz

G.O.A.T.
I think this thread is for discussing Murray's inconsistency.
he is inconsistent , what you say?
I say you asserted Murray didn't show spirit at key moments - I somewhat facetiously pointed out why you were talking bollocks.

I say you then asserted that Murray only won Wimbledon because nole was tired - I was able to demonstrate that further bollocks were being talked.

I say that now, having previously seen your previous assertions debunked for the utter @arsegravy that they were, you now want to have another argument.

I agree with Moya - I've already said that. Your point is?

Fastgrass - you don't have the intellect to pretend to be somebody else. Your Murray hate is like a mile high neon sign. Please p1ss off and leave us all alone - I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
 
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Delpo Fan

Banned
I say you asserted Murray didn't show spirit at key moments - I somewhat facetiously pointed out why you were talking bollocks.

I say you then asserted that Murray only won Wimbledon because nole was tired - I was able to demonstrate that further bollocks were being talked.

I say that now, having previously seen your previous assertions debunked for the utter @arsegravy that they were, you now want to have another argument.

I agree with Moya - I've already said that. Your point is?

Fastgrass - you don't have the intellect to pretend to be somebody else. Your Murray hate is like a mile high neon sign. Please p1ss off and leave us all alone - I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
you don't get it.
I mean delpo was deserving champ. if delpo have tired Murray in SF and nole would have won Wimbledon , l am still saying this as noles victory was due to delpo.

my point is delpo played better than Murray and nole also at Wimbledon . he was deserving champ.
 

cork_screw

Hall of Fame
History will remember Murray as a more accomplished grand slam champion than the Spanaird clown who lucked out winning his only (clay) slam before the arrival of Nadal.

The fact Murray is able to win the more prestigious slam in this golden era makes it irrelevant whether he is tanking MS1000s in order to peak for slams.

Moya is just bitter that his name is not on the champions board at the All England Club. He really should keep his trap shut by virtue that Murray has won more slams and will most likely add more to his collection.
First, Moya has been a #1 player, so he's speaking from experience.

Second, DAMN, you are taking this personal like Moya has insulted your mother. He's just speaking what separates murray from the other two who haven't done something they have. Also, you don't have to be a better tennis player in order to be an insightful analyst or coach. Do you think Phil Jackson was one of the 10 best players of all time? Phil Jackson was not a very good ball player, but he does have good insight to what needs to be done in different situations and facets of the game. You think you need to be a good ball player to be a good coach, you are very wrong. And it sounds like you are the one that's bitter--- but for no reason.
 

Crisstti

Legend
I guess, if he writes for the Spanish press, but he's in no position to criticize Murray so harshly.

I have a problem with former pros talking negatively about today's players. Whether it is, or not, it looks like bitterness.
I don't think it looks like bitterness at all. And he wasn't harsh. He said Murray is way behind in consistency and that he needs to improve on that if he wants to be number 1, that is all.

I don't even think it's harsh when seen out of context nor anything.

I agree. 5% to 0% basically. Moya literally had a better chance to match Nadal's 8 Roland Garros titles than to win a single Wimbledon. Anyone who followed tennis in Moya's prime realizes that if someone suggested the idea of Moya possibly winning the title before any given Wimbledon it would result in huge uncontrolable fits of laughter around the room.
Aren't you exaggerating a bit there?.
 
Moya never had the ability to win more than 2 majors anywhere, even Roland Garros. I dont think he underachieved with 1 either, if anything maybe overachieved. Just 2 would be the absolute possible max for him at any venue.

Saying win 8 RG more likely than 1 Wimbledon is crazy since anyone decent on a surface can fluke a slam. Moya winning Wimbledon would be a huge fluke but no more than Gaudio's French Open or Johansson's slam. He wasnt as bad as say Muster on grass.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
I don't believe it. Fastgrass/Champion's Game has popped up yet again with another user-name. Calling himself 'Delpo Fan' now!

Is there no way to ban these trolls without them popping up the next day under another name?
 
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J

JRAJ1988

Guest
you don't get it.
I mean delpo was deserving champ. if delpo have tired Murray in SF and nole would have won Wimbledon , l am still saying this as noles victory was due to delpo.

my point is delpo played better than Murray and nole also at Wimbledon . he was deserving champ.
Fastgrass you are a very disturbed person, you really need to get reality check in your life mate. I don't understand this obsession about Andy Murray, we know you hate the British after the other Indian gentleman translated your vile previously...but what has Andy Murray done to you, your family and your heritage to warrant this vendetta?
 

nethawkwenatchee

Professional
How in the world was he "dominating" going into the clay season?
Andy had won in Brisban, made the Finals at the Australian Open, and Won Miami leading into the clay court season (not to mention his stellar second half of the 2012 season). I admit his QF showing at Indian Wells wasn't his best form but I also recall that IW is when we first started seeing glimpses of the back problem. Andy was having a great 2013 leading into clay and was able to tough out a few very tough matches in severe pain. He had just split sets with Granollers in Rome when he finally had to retire. My point is: Andy had momentum but his clay court season was cut short or else it's possible he could have been part of the conversation in Paris.
 
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/09/moya-murray-neither-novak-nor-rafa/49264/#.UkQk0eJ1qNA

The Spaniard says it is impossible to be No. 1 if a player only focuses on winning Grand Slam titles.

“It is something only do [Novak] Djokovic and [Rafael] Nadal can do. For me, Murray is neither Novak nor Rafa," Moya writes. "He can become one [of those types of players], but right now he is not. In terms of consistency, he is far away. Rafa has made 12 finals in 13 tournaments and has won 10. Djokovic has lost very few matches. Murray—not just this year—is a player who has trouble mentally enduring throughout the year.”

Spot on this Moya, don't you think?
murray did only concentrate on majors this year because he was hurt. usually he is a force at masters events.
 

oscar_2424

Legend
I guess, if he writes for the Spanish press, but he's in no position to criticize Murray so harshly.

I have a problem with former pros talking negatively about today's players. Whether it is, or not, it looks like bitterness.
so if he criticizes a player, people bring up his career? what about all the trolls in here that never played a match in their lives an go nuts on the top player, who are they to talk>
everybody is free to say what they want!
 
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