Multi/syn gut hybrid?

[torpantennis]

Anybody used a multi mains/syngut cross hybrid? How does the combo feel like? I assume good pocketing, but what about spin level, does it compare in any way to multi/poly? What about power, can any syngut crosses tame the power down at all? Any good spin oriented combos? Optimal tension range for maximum spin?

I'm looking for a cheap but longer age alternative to multi mains/poly crosses hybrid, that wouldn't lose control as rapidly when aging. But I hate the sticking together effect of full multi stringbeds so much. Do the mains and crosses stick together in this hybrid like in full multis when ageing?

 

[sp1derman]

I am going to give this combination a try as well. I traditionally used poly mains with syn. gut crosses. However, I feel like I am missing some power I used to have. I'm hoping the multi mains ( I've ordered 5 different sets mainly from Mikeler's review page). From my reading of the many threads on this topic it seems like there are too many variables to say that a given combination makes more spin than another. String texture, gauge, tensions of the mains and crosses all make it a bit hairy.

With that being said I plan to try multi mains/Gosen OGSM crosses and see how that works. I look forward to peoples responses.

 

[BorderLine]

Interesting topic to me...hope there is some feedback...only seen a few post on this. If a stiffer, higher spin, more control, and crisper multi setup can be made from a multi/multi, multi/syn, or syn/multi then I think that hits the spot for a ton of people and for the folks that want hybrid poly feel but want to be conservative on the arm.

Have some thoughts on this, but no concrete testing so my thoughts are pretty useless other than I will say due to the way Prince Premier Control (PPC) feels and behaves, it seems like it would be a good main for a multi/syn. and could be thought of as a weak co-poly/soft poly even though I know it is a multi and that this may sound silly. That is just the way it looks, feels, and behaves to me and why I think it is so interesting and unique.

Once more people play with it, I think there might be some corroboration to what I am describing.

 

[ndoughb]

Presently using Head Rip Cont. 17g in the mains (55#) and Prince Premier Attack 16g in the crosses (53#). I realize this isn't exactly what you are asking but I feel that I have not lost much in the spin department and have retained a good amount of power by using the PPA in the crosses. I have roughly 12 sets of doubles on this setup and there is very little notching of the mains. In addition, the price of this hybrid is fairly similar to what you will pay for the multi/syn gut.

I typically use gut/poly but I plan on having my backup racket strung with the above combo for when I move outdoors.

 

[BorderLine]

Presently using Head Rip Cont. 17g in the mains (55#) and Prince Premier Attack 16g in the crosses (53#). I realize this isn't exactly what you are asking but I feel that I have not lost much in the spin department and have retained a good amount of power by using the PPA in the crosses. I have roughly 12 sets of doubles on this setup and there is very little notching of the mains. In addition, the price of this hybrid is fairly similar to what you will pay for the multi/syn gut.

I typically use gut/poly but I plan on having my backup racket strung with the above combo for when I move outdoors.

I was wondering and hoping for a post on RIP and PPA. I have some RIP and PPA in the mail. I didn't know if this was wasteful to try so thanks for the help.

I had a couple of proposals in a post that is in cyber space now and I decided to shorten my one above and leave out in hopes of some folks that had actually tested.

Any testing with Lightning XX and another syn. or multi for a hybrid?

Any testing with Forten and another syn. or multi for a hybrid?

 

[anubis]

Anybody used a multi mains/syngut cross hybrid? How does the combo feel like? I assume good pocketing, but what about spin level, does it compare in any way to multi/poly? What about power, can any syngut crosses tame the power down at all? Any good spin oriented combos? Optimal tension range for maximum spin?

I'm looking for a cheap but longer age alternative to multi mains/poly crosses hybrid, that wouldn't lose control as rapidly when aging. But I hate the sticking together effect of full multi stringbeds so much. Do the mains and crosses stick together in this hybrid like in full multis when ageing?

I'm using Prince Premier Control 16 in mains @ 54 lbs, with Kirschbaum Pro Line II crosses @ 50 lbs. I love this combination. Much more comfortable than reversing the strings. Great spin too. Since the crosses are smooth, the multi mains continue to slide well, incorporating great string snap back in the process. Even after 4 or 5 hours of use!

Compare that to full bed of multi, where after two hours, a full bed of PPC is virtually glued to each other: the mains refuse to slide over the crosses.

I find that it's just as powerful as a full bed of multi, however, with increased string movement and spin, you have more control. Shots dip back down into the court.

I used to use poly mains with multi cross. That works well too, I had a lot of good success with it. However, it only works for the first two hours. After that, the poly mains no longer slide over the multi cross.

 

[torpantennis]

I'm using Prince Premier Control 16 in mains @ 54 lbs, with Kirschbaum Pro Line II crosses @ 50 lbs. I love this combination. Much more comfortable than reversing the strings. Great spin too. Since the crosses are smooth, the multi mains continue to slide well, incorporating great string snap back in the process. Even after 4 or 5 hours of use!

Compare that to full bed of multi, where after two hours, a full bed of PPC is virtually glued to each other: the mains refuse to slide over the crosses.

So you really DO enjoy multi/poly? Great to hear. It's got great spin, and it's so plush, isn't it?

I do like the spin level that the multi/poly setup delivers, throughout the whole 15-20h life of it. But the problem just is that poly crosses lose tension faster than multi mains, and I feel the setup has too much trampoline effect after 5-7h. That would be no problem if I were stringing myself. The price would be cheap enough to restring at this point. But instead, I use a pro stringer, and it costs too much to restring each 6h. So that's why I'm after an alternative setup, with better tension maintenance.

Got any clue whether multis and stiffer synguts glue together like multis?

 

[BorderLine]

So you really DO enjoy multi/poly? Great to hear. It's got great spin, and it's so plush, isn't it?

I do like the spin level that the multi/poly setup delivers, throughout the whole 15-20h life of it. But the problem just is that poly crosses lose tension faster than multi mains, and I feel the setup has too much trampoline effect after 5-7h. That would be no problem if I were stringing myself. The price would be cheap enough to restring at this point. But instead, I use a pro stringer, and it costs too much to restring each 6h. So that's why I'm after an alternative setup, with better tension maintenance.

Got any clue whether multis and stiffer synguts glue together like multis?

I have these same issues and questions plus I feel like adding poly drops the forgiveness and feel especially at the net. Poly spins well on serves, but I think I can serve better with all multis.

Would it be "glue" together that you want or "slide and snap back" or either (just something other than move and stick)

 

[Muppet]

I tried Hexy Fiber 16/Sweet 16 @ one pound higher than my full bed of Dunlop S-gut 16 tension, in my LM Radical OS. Don't bother. It was a total trampoline. Test fail.

 

[BorderLine]

All Hexy Fiber 17 at 58 was a trampoline for me so it is good to know that with a synthetic that it failed too.

I am going to try RIP Control with PPC in a month or so.

 

[eelhc]

Check this thread...

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=477442

While I thought the Multi/SG hybrid was good, I am now using Multi's mains with a smooth and soft poly crosses (Topspin Cyber Blue or Isospeed Baselie Spin). I string the crosses 3~5lbs lower than mains. With Rip control mains and Baseline Spin crosses, it's under $5 per string job. I hit ~10-15 hrs before cutting it out.

 

[torpantennis]

I have these same issues and questions plus I feel like adding poly drops the forgiveness and feel especially at the net. Poly spins well on serves, but I think I can serve better with all multis.

Would it be "glue" together that you want or "slide and snap back" or either (just something other than move and stick)

Slide and snap back is what I'm after. Fresh poly cross is the king, but is any syngut cross ok, in terms of low friction sliding against multi mains?

 

[Power Player]

Slide and snap back is what I'm after. Fresh poly cross is the king, but is any syngut cross ok, in terms of low friction sliding against multi mains?

I may give this a go just to see what happens.

My experience with poly crosses is the stringbed lasts maybe 4 hours for me before snapping. It is just not durable enough.

To me, multi/syn gut hybrid makes a lot more sense and is more cost effective.

Plus you are not going to get a huge difference in spin just from putting poly in the crosses. Thats going to boil down to technique.

My go to setup for the past few years is a poly main/syn gut cross. I love it, but I like to try alternatives now and then just to see how they compare. Plus, poly is not the best thing ever for the arm as we know.

 

[BorderLine]

What would be some multis and syns. that would be considered "slick?"

Would PPA/PPC be considered slick? I Lightning XX slick? Is RIP Control slick?

 

[SCRAP IRON]

I may give this a go just to see what happens.

My experience with poly crosses is the stringbed lasts maybe 4 hours for me before snapping. It is just not durable enough.

To me, multi/syn gut hybrid makes a lot more sense and is more cost effective.

Plus you are not going to get a huge difference in spin just from putting poly in the crosses. Thats going to boil down to technique.

My go to setup for the past few years is a poly main/syn gut cross. I love it, but I like to try alternatives now and then just to see how they compare. Plus, poly is not the best thing ever for the arm as we know.

Which string in your Multi/Poly hybrid snapped first? I would imagine it was the Multi mains. Have you tried the stiff syngut Gosen product called AK CX Pro? It is very durable as a cross. I can tell you this, I can't remember the last time I broke a cross string no matter what was in there.

 

[Power Player]

Which string in your Multi/Poly hybrid snapped first? I would imagine it was the Multi mains. Have you tried the stiff syngut Gosen product called AK CX Pro? It is very durable as a cross. I can tell you this, I can't remember the last time I broke a cross string no matter what was in there.

I use Forten sweet as my cross. I love it. And yes the mains snapped first.

So for me, it is better to leave the poly cross out of the equation.

 

[SCRAP IRON]

I have these same issues and questions plus I feel like adding poly drops the forgiveness and feel especially at the net. Poly spins well on serves, but I think I can serve better with all multis.

Would it be "glue" together that you want or "slide and snap back" or either (just something other than move and stick)

Honestly, you can't have the perfect set up. If I were you, I would stick with your favorite multi in the mains (The mains dominate the feel) and put in a smooth poly in the crosses. At that point you can experiment in future string jobs with the TENSION in order to achieve more power or control. There are many good smooth polys out there and they are all relatively inexpensive. By the way, what racket are you currently using?

 

[BorderLine]

I use Forten sweet as my cross. I love it. And yes the mains snapped first.

So for me, it is better to leave the poly cross out of the equation.

So what syn. or multi main will you try/do you use with your Forten cross?

I pickup my first all Forten 16 @ 58 today. I haven't hit synthetic gut in a very long time (unless you consider multis the exact same as syn.).

 

[BorderLine]

Honestly, you can't have the perfect set up. If I were you, I would stick with your favorite multi in the mains (The mains dominate the feel) and put in a smooth poly in the crosses. At that point you can experiment in future string jobs with the TENSION in order to achieve more power or control. There are many good smooth polys out there and they are all relatively inexpensive. By the way, what racket are you currently using?

2012 BLX Steam 100 is what I currently hit and I love it - I just left a ProKennex Ki-5x and before that a 2013 APD.

I haven't ever hit poly as just a cross, but I have hit all poly.

I like the feel of a multi if the main dominates the feel that might make sense other than I am not sure if I am a fan of poly due to it dying and being tricky on the arm. What does the poly in a cross due - lower the power? Does a cross have much impact on spin?

 

[Power Player]

So what syn. or multi main will you try/do you use with your Forten cross?

I pickup my first all Forten 16 @ 58 today. I haven't hit synthetic gut in a very long time (unless you consider multis the exact same as syn.).

The yonex 850 for sure. I read good things over and over about it.

 

[anubis]

So you really DO enjoy multi/poly? Great to hear. It's got great spin, and it's so plush, isn't it?

I do like the spin level that the multi/poly setup delivers, throughout the whole 15-20h life of it. But the problem just is that poly crosses lose tension faster than multi mains, and I feel the setup has too much trampoline effect after 5-7h. That would be no problem if I were stringing myself. The price would be cheap enough to restring at this point. But instead, I use a pro stringer, and it costs too much to restring each 6h. So that's why I'm after an alternative setup, with better tension maintenance.

Got any clue whether multis and stiffer synguts glue together like multis?

LOL, I knew I said I'd report back my findings in that old thread, but it fell off my radar screen.

It is very plush, very comfortable. I haven't had it in long enough yet to judge exactly how long it lasts. I don't have as may opportunities to hit in the winter. Right now I'm up to 5 hours on one frame and an hour on two other frames.

As to the tension issue, after first waiting 24 hours after the initial stringing, and then playing for 5 hours, I don't notice any difference in the cross tension. I know the poly cross is *supposed* to lose more tension, and perhaps it does, but I don't see that as negatively impacting my stringbed. My Tourna string meter only shows a couple lbs lost overall.

Once I get beyond the 5 hour mark, I'll be able to comment further on the trampoline effect.


As to why multis and syn guts seem to "glue" together, that's because of their coefficient of friction. Their values are more than 3x as high as the average polyester. They are so rough (and only get rougher with use), that after 2 to 4 hours of play time, their coefficient of friction goes from 0.300 to 0.500.

To put it into perspective, the slickest poly has a coefficient of 0.068 (Spiky Shark). The roughest multi is Biphase X-1, 0.300. A coefficient of 1.0 means no movement, 100% friction (which is very hard to duplicate).

 

[Power Player]

I still say that is not going to matter much unless you have really advanced racquet head speed.

Give me a racquet with full syn gut, a hybrid, or whatever you want and I guarantee you Ill hit with a lot of spin. The thing that keeps me with the poly mains so far is the amount of control I can get when hitting the ball hard. This is more due to the lack of launchiness than anything else. You can see people describing that issue in gut/poly threads as well.

 

[SCRAP IRON]

2012 BLX Steam 100 is what I currently hit and I love it - I just left a ProKennex Ki-5x and before that a 2013 APD.

I haven't ever hit poly as just a cross, but I have hit all poly.

I like the feel of a multi if the main dominates the feel that might make sense other than I am not sure if I am a fan of poly due to it dying and being tricky on the arm. What does the poly in a cross due - lower the power? Does a cross have much impact on spin?

A poly in the cross does a few things with either a multi or better yet, natural gut in the mains. First of all, a smooth co-poly cross allows for the mains to slide more freely, thus creating better spin than a full multi bed. Secondly, you will experience more control on your slices and some topspin options on your serves. You will lose a little depth on your shots in general, but the added control will allow you to attempt harder ground strokes so that will neutralize the possible lack of depth! If you are a 3.5-4.5 player with longer, developed strokes, the co-poly crosses should not hurt your arm. A stiff racket with a stiff first generation poly will hurt your arm if you are older than 35 years of age and play more than a few times a week. I think you will enjoy this hybrid set up. ALWAYS string the multi mains 3-4 pounds higher than the poly crosses to account for tension loss, although the poly will lose tension as well in a different way. Equally as important is the fact that you should re-string your racket every 10-15 sets, so that you may continue to enjoy the fresh properties and performance that this hybrid set up brings. Enjoy your tennis!

 

[sp1derman]

So it looks like Multi mains/ Syn gut crosses will be no better at producing spin than full bed of multi? I wanted to get some of the power I used to have back...

 

[el sergento]

I may give this a go just to see what happens.

My experience with poly crosses is the stringbed lasts maybe 4 hours for me before snapping. It is just not durable enough.

To me, multi/syn gut hybrid makes a lot more sense and is more cost effective.

Plus you are not going to get a huge difference in spin just from putting poly in the crosses. Thats going to boil down to technique.

My go to setup for the past few years is a poly main/syn gut cross. I love it, but I like to try alternatives now and then just to see how they compare. Plus, poly is not the best thing ever for the arm as we know.

NXT mains, Bab original syngut crosses. It makes for a soft yet crisp string bed and has very little string movement, less than a traditional syn/poly hybrid. Even in my super open pattern EXO's, the string barely moves.

Here's a relevant post from the holic' thread:

14 hours and counting with this string job :shock:

We're talking NXT mains and the cheapest Babolat syngut in the crosses. That's absolutely insane. I usually saw through NXT in about 6 hours with an open pattern.

The best thing is that in 14+ hours I've lost zero playability with this setup, whereas I would have gone through 2-3 poly jobs in the EXO by this point. Tension maintenance is fantastic, from an original 60#'s it feels no looser than 55# right now.

Sure, I've put in over 30 string savers :razz:, but still, there's barely any sting movement with this racquet and string combo. The strings really locked themselves into place.

 

[el sergento]

So it looks like Multi mains/ Syn gut crosses will be no better at producing spin than full bed of multi? I wanted to get some of the power I used to have back...

There's no real advantage in terms of playability, at least not IME. The reason I hybrid a multi with a syngut is to save some $$. You'll get about 80-90% of the playability of a full multi job but for almost half the price.

I will say that with my particular setup, NXT/Bab syngut, there is less string movement than with a full bed of NXT.

 

[el sergento]

I still say that is not going to matter much unless you have really advanced racquet head speed.

Give me a racquet with full syn gut, a hybrid, or whatever you want and I guarantee you Ill hit with a lot of spin. The thing that keeps me with the poly mains so far is the amount of control I can get when hitting the ball hard. This is more due to the lack of launchiness than anything else. You can see people describing that issue in gut/poly threads as well.

Until the poly dies of course, then, in my case, I'll get a huge drop in control and power.

My goat setup is NXT/ALU Power Rough. But the ALU dies so fast, which is fine if I'm playing daily, cus I'll snap the NXT before it gets too bad, but if I'm only playing 1-2 times a week, the ALU dies and I'm left with a neutered half set of expensive multi.

I agree with you 100% on the spin element, I get the same spin no matter what I use, that's why one of my tennis resolutions is to wean myself entirely off poly.

 

[el sergento]

As to why multis and syn guts seem to "glue" together, that's because of their coefficient of friction. Their values are more than 3x as high as the average polyester. They are so rough (and only get rougher with use), that after 2 to 4 hours of play time, their coefficient of friction goes from 0.300 to 0.500.

To put it into perspective, the slickest poly has a coefficient of 0.068 (Spiky Shark). The roughest multi is Biphase X-1, 0.300. A coefficient of 1.0 means no movement, 100% friction (which is very hard to duplicate).

It's great when you get the scientific explanation to something you've observed, but aren't 100% isn't just in your head. In my case, I've no doubt that my setup of NXT/syngut moves way less than my old go to setup of NXT/ALU PR.

.............. the more you know

 

[anubis]

I still say that is not going to matter much unless you have really advanced racquet head speed.

Give me a racquet with full syn gut, a hybrid, or whatever you want and I guarantee you Ill hit with a lot of spin. The thing that keeps me with the poly mains so far is the amount of control I can get when hitting the ball hard. This is more due to the lack of launchiness than anything else. You can see people describing that issue in gut/poly threads as well.

Yes you're right, technique has a lot to do with it. But you can be a lot lazier and still get the job done when you put poly into the mix.

For example: i have two Pure Drives, both stock. I put full bed of multi (Prince Premier Control) @ 64 lbs. Another one, I have PPC in mains @ 54, poly cross @ 50 lbs.

With the full bed multi, I absolutely must do an exaggerated low to high WW finish to create enough topspin to hit the ball hard, and keep it in play. The minute I start to flatten out my shots, balls start to sail long (not enough spin).

Contrast that to the multi/poly hybrid: I don't have to have such an exaggerated swing to produce the amount of spin necessary to keep the ball in play. I can flatten out my strokes and still keep the ball in play. There's more room for error there, because there's already a lot of topspin being produced soley because of the string composition, which frees me up to swing the racquet in which ever way I believe is best given the circumstances.

 

[sp1derman]

There's no real advantage in terms of playability, at least not IME. The reason I hybrid a multi with a syngut is to save some $$. You'll get about 80-90% of the playability of a full multi job but for almost half the price.

I will say that with my particular setup, NXT/Bab syngut, there is less string movement than with a full bed of NXT.

Thanks ^,

The string movement does bother me to some extent. Another reason I wanted to hybrid multi/syn. gut is because it will save money over the full bed of multi.

 

[Power Player]

Something is wrong then to be honest. I don't change my strokes at all no matter what strings are in it.

I'd suggest getting good at hitting with spin using the non poly setup.

There were plenty of us hitting with big spin before poly and it did not require an exaggerated swing.

Also, your tension may simply have been too low.

And I agree 100% about the money factor. I also really love the feel of a syn gut cross.