Murray the moaner......

[Deuce]

From the little I've admittedly seen of Monfils, he seemed a little too full of himself for my liking - like he felt he was the star of the show, and thoroughly enjoyed the attention. Very cocky.
If he wants to be this way once he's established himself in a few years, that's one thing - but to first come on the tour with the attitude that he's the greatest thing since sliced bread rubbed me the wrong way.

It seems that Murray, on the other hand, would behave the same way whether his match was played in front of a full house at Ashe Stadium - and televised around the world -, or if no-one at all was watching.

 

[monfils]

From the little I've admittedly seen of Monfils, he seemed a little too full of himself for my liking - like he felt he was the star of the show, and thoroughly enjoyed the attention. Very cocky.
If he wants to be this way once he's established himself in a few years, that's one thing - but to first come on the tour with the attitude that he's the greatest thing since sliced bread rubbed me the wrong way.

It seems that Murray, on the other hand, would behave the same way whether his match was played in front of a full house at Ashe Stadium - and televised around the world -, or if no-one at all was watching.

He doesn't seem cocky to me, he just seems quite pumped up when he plays and maybe you see that as being cocky but i see it as having a good positive attitude. He never disrespects his oponents, the crowd or the umpire so i don't really see anything wrong. Murray on the other hand insults his own coach, that is extremly annoying to watch Brad Gibret being abused by a spoilt little punk. Murray just looks like a spoilt brat. You don't get the same feeling when you see Safin whining, but when you see Murray he is just annoying because he is whining for no reason.

 

[Deuce]

The best reply to the ignorant (and comical) claims that Murray is 'abusing' Gilbert comes from Rabbit in post #31.

 

[shrakkie]

I think he's emo.

bahahahaha!u my friend actualy just made really laugh out loud!!!!

can u say eeeeeeeeeemo?

 

[monfils]

The best reply to the ignorant (and comical) claims that Murray is 'abusing' Gilbert comes from Rabbit in post #31.

So Murray can treat Gilbert the way he wants to because they signed a contract, if you are sensible then you would know that the disrspect Murray was giving Gilbert was not correct and there is no excuse for that. As a 19 year old you should give your coach even more respect than when you are 30 because you are still very young on the tour and acting like you own your coach at such a young age is not good. There is no excuse for Murrays behaviour. Haas should not treat his coaches badly either but that does not mean its okay for Murray to do it as well.

 

[Rabbit]

So Murray can treat Gilbert the way he wants to because they signed a contract, if you are sensible then you would know that the disrspect Murray was giving Gilbert was not correct and there is no excuse for that. As a 19 year old you should give your coach even more respect than when you are 30 because you are still very young on the tour and acting like you own your coach at such a young age is not good. There is no excuse for Murrays behaviour. Haas should not treat his coaches badly either but that does not mean its okay for Murray to do it as well.

I didn't see Murray do anything, but let's assume for the sake of argument that he did. How do you explain Haas' treatment of his coaches, or Myskina's, or a hundred other players who treat their coaches worse? Why do you single out Murray?

 

[monfils]

I didn't see Murray do anything, but let's assume for the sake of argument that he did. How do you explain Haas' treatment of his coaches, or Myskina's, or a hundred other players who treat their coaches worse? Why do you single out Murray?

Because Murray is the one i saw, i don't think 100 hundred other players mistreat their coaches especially someone like Brad Gilbert. He is one of the most respected coaches and some 19 year old is treating him like garbage. What Murray did was scream at Gilbert saying" your giving me nothing" and also using some swear words with it. What bothered me was that he said it so many times after he loses a point, i wouldn't mind if he only said it once.
I didn't see Haas treatment of his coach but i think Murrays is worse because Murray is mistreating a well respected coach and also Murray is only 19 so he has no right to treat his coach like that. Do you think what Murray did was justified?

 

[Rabbit]

Gilbert isn't that well respected. There are plenty of people in the sport who don't think he's all that. Roddick ditched him because he doesn't shut up. Andre Agassi's father said some very uncomplimentary things about him saying in effect he won't shut up. The folks on ESPN have made remarks about a possible Gilbert/Roddick reunion saying "that ain't gonna happen" and then smiling like it's some kind of inside joke. Apparently it takes a certain personality to mesh with Gilbert.

I think he knows his stuff. I also see where a) Murray is very young, b) has more pressure on him because the Brits expect a winner and want it very badly (just ask Henman), and c) let's see if he does it again. If Gilbert is that good a coach, which I don't doubt, he'll get this stuff stopped. As it is, I'm sure Gilbert would rather Murray scream at him indirectly while he's playing than vent at an official and get a warning, or something worse.

I just don't see coming down so hard on him when the others have probably done the same thing... Monfils appears to be very comfortable with Thierry Champion, but that is most likely the exception and not the rule.

 

[monfils]

Gilbert isn't that well respected. There are plenty of people in the sport who don't think he's all that. Roddick ditched him because he doesn't shut up. Andre Agassi's father said some very uncomplimentary things about him saying in effect he won't shut up. The folks on ESPN have made remarks about a possible Gilbert/Roddick reunion saying "that ain't gonna happen" and then smiling like it's some kind of inside joke. Apparently it takes a certain personality to mesh with Gilbert.

I think he knows his stuff. I also see where a) Murray is very young, b) has more pressure on him because the Brits expect a winner and want it very badly (just ask Henman), and c) let's see if he does it again. If Gilbert is that good a coach, which I don't doubt, he'll get this stuff stopped. As it is, I'm sure Gilbert would rather Murray scream at him indirectly while he's playing than vent at an official and get a warning, or something worse.

I just don't see coming down so hard on him when the others have probably done the same thing... Monfils appears to be very comfortable with Thierry Champion, but that is most likely the exception and not the rule.

Gilbert is a well respected coach because he has coached two players to become world number one, he has also published books. Not many coaches if any have coached two different players to number one in the world. So compared to other coaches Gilbert is well respected. Just because agassi's father said he talks too much doesn't mean he is not well respected. Just because Matts Willander said Federer does not have balls, does that mean Federer is not well respected as a player? I don't now wether Gilbert would prefer Murray to scream at him instead of officials but i don't think he likes a player disrespecting him like that. Just because there is pressure on Murray does not mean he has to disrespect his coach, he can blame himself and whine but he cannot blame and disrespect a coach who has left his family to help Murray. Murray is very young and thats exactly why he should show more respect to his coaches. He is a teenager, been on tour for only one year, acheived very little and there he is screaming at a well respected coach who is over twenty years older than him. Non of the young up and comers have disrespected their coaches and niether has Monfils. Monfils is not a spoilt brat like Murray and ge doesn't whine like a cry baby. I don't see anything Wrong that Monfils does when he is on the court.

 

[Kaptain Karl]

From the little I've admittedly seen of Monfils, he seemed a little too full of himself for my liking - like he felt he was the star of the show, and thoroughly enjoyed the attention. Very cocky.
If he wants to be this way once he's established himself in a few years, that's one thing - but to first come on the tour with the attitude that he's the greatest thing since sliced bread rubbed me the wrong way.

(This is just begging for it....)

Deuce, your psychoanalysis of Monfils might have some value if you'd at least met him once. But as you likely haven't, to lay those charges of "too full of himself ... felt he was the star of the show ... attitude that he's the greatest thing since sliced bread" against him sounds like nothing more than sour grapes.
Did he beat your favorite player somewhere along the line?

(So much for ignorance....)

- KK

 

[Kaptain Karl]

Gilbert is a well respected coach because he has coached two players to become world number one, he has also published books. Not many coaches if any have coached two different players to number one in the world....

You might want to check out a guy named, "Robert Lansdorp." Google him and see how many World #1s he's coached. (He just doesn't "toot his own horn" like Gilbert.)

<edit>Oops! I frequently screw-up on Lansdorp. </edit>

- KK

 

[monfils]

You might want to check out a guy named, "Robert Lansdorf." Google him and see how many World #1s he's coached. (He just doesn't "toot his own horn" like Gilbert.)

- KK

How many did he coach and what does that have to do with the fact that Gilbert is a well respected coach. Gilbert actully coached the players to become number one not just coming in to coach someone who has already established themselves as number one. Write for me the list of players that this guy coached to become number one, don't put players who were already number one. Can you think of any other coaches? I don't think so. Why? because Gilbert has done a special thing which cannot be achieved by many coaches so he is well respected.

 

[monfils]

(This is just begging for it....)

Deuce, your psychoanalysis of Monfils might have some value if you'd at least met him once. But as you likely haven't, to lay those charges of "too full of himself ... felt he was the star of the show ... attitude that he's the greatest thing since sliced bread" against him sounds like nothing more than sour grapes.
Did he beat your favorite player somewhere along the line?

(So much for ignorance....)

- KK

HAHAHA.knock some sense into his thick skull Captain:mrgreen:

 

[Kaptain Karl]

Off the top of my head, here are some Top Players who give Lansdorp (Not "Lansdorf"; my bad.) credit for significant development: Tracy Austin, Davenport, Sampras, Sharapova, Myskina. I'm sure there are others....

- KK

 

[Rabbit]

Add Shriver & Sampras to the list.

 

[Kaptain Karl]

I didn't know about Shriver. Sampras is on the list. (Geez! He oughta be at the TOP of the list, huh?)

- KK

 

[Rabbit]

How many did he coach and what does that have to do with the fact that Gilbert is a well respected coach. Gilbert actully coached the players to become number one not just coming in to coach someone who has already established themselves as number one. Write for me the list of players that this guy coached to become number one, don't put players who were already number one. Can you think of any other coaches? I don't think so. Why? because Gilbert has done a special thing which cannot be achieved by many coaches so he is well respected.

You might want to rethink that. Gilbert's first charge, Agassi was #1 in the world prior to hooking up with Gilbert. True, he did slide and hooked up, but he certainly had the talent to be there without Gilbert as he had previously proved.

Other great coaches include Nick Bollitieri who has had a hand in the careers of every top player in the world it seems other than Sampras. And, by the way, helped Gilbert.

Tony Roche handled Ivan Lendl and Patrick Rafter and now Roger Federer, not a bad resume. He took Lendl prior to Lendl becoming #1 in the world and I believe Rafter as well. Roche is also directly responsible for the Australian Davis Cup team becoming one of the best teams in the world again (in tandem with Newk).

Larry Stefanki took Marcello Rios and Yvegeny Kafelnikov to #1 in the world and currently works with Fernando Gonzalez. He's had a pretty stellar track record as well.

Paul Annacone worked with Pete Sampras and now Tim Henman. He hasn't done badly.

Gilbert has a great head on his shoulders, no doubt. But don't think for one instant that he's not regarded by a great many in the game with a snicker. Gilbert is a cunumdrum wrapped in an enigma.

 

[monfils]

Off the top of my head, here are some Top Players who give Lansdorp (Not "Lansdorf"; my bad.) credit for significant development: Tracy Austin, Davenport, Sampras, Sharapova, Myskina. I'm sure there are others....

- KK

I mean how many did he coach to number one, not how many good players did he coach.

 

[monfils]

You might want to rethink that. Gilbert's first charge, Agassi was #1 in the world prior to hooking up with Gilbert. True, he did slide and hooked up, but he certainly had the talent to be there without Gilbert as he had previously proved.

Other great coaches include Nick Bollitieri who has had a hand in the careers of every top player in the world it seems other than Sampras. And, by the way, helped Gilbert.

Tony Roche handled Ivan Lendl and Patrick Rafter and now Roger Federer, not a bad resume. He took Lendl prior to Lendl becoming #1 in the world and I believe Rafter as well. Roche is also directly responsible for the Australian Davis Cup team becoming one of the best teams in the world again (in tandem with Newk).

Larry Stefanki took Marcello Rios and Yvegeny Kafelnikov to #1 in the world and currently works with Fernando Gonzalez. He's had a pretty stellar track record as well.

Paul Annacone worked with Pete Sampras and now Tim Henman. He hasn't done badly.

Gilbert has a great head on his shoulders, no doubt. But don't think for one instant that he's not regarded by a great many in the game with a snicker. Gilbert is a cunumdrum wrapped in an enigma.

I meant how many players were coached to number one, not coached when they were already number one. Tony Roche handled Rafter who never became number one, Federer who was already number one. What you have written is completely irrelevent. I am talking about coaches who coached a player to number one and you are giving me some players who were never even number one or were already number one.

 

[BaseLineBash]

Isn't Robert Lansdorp just a groundstroke and footwork coach?

 

[chess9]

Guys, it's teen-aged angst. Give the kid a break.

Exactly. He's a kid. He has the emotional maturity though of a 14 year old. We all mature at different rates. If he were 14 and saying that stuff no one would criticize him. It's tough out there in the adult world with so many cynics around.

Anyway, I completely agree with the others who say Brad will bring him around. He knows he needs Brad, his parents know, and the LTA knows. He lucked out and got what he needed. Wish we all could be so lucky. Like maybe a couple US players? No way, Jose though.

-Robert

 

[BaseLineBash]

On a side not about Lansdorp, I found this interesting quote about Sampras and Federer.

"I’ll tell you what happened with Sampras. He came to me after he just became No. 1 and said, “It’s so tough being No. 1,” because Becker had recently been No.1 for just six months, Courier was No. 1 for six months. I said, “Listen, man, what’s tough is when somebody has a family and the guy gets laid off —- that’s tough. What you do, that’s not tough at all. You play two hours and then you make millions. So don’t ever come back to me and tell me that life is tough.” But what was great about Pete, was once he became no. 1, he always felt like he was going to win. When Federer plays, I’m always worried that he’s going to disappoint. I would always put my money on Pete." ~Robert Lansdorp

 

[simi]

Murray McWhinger or Moaning Murray?

I want to see him do well because he is a Brit... but let's be honest, he sees himself as Scottish and nothing to do with Britain as a nation - and to be fair, a lot of Scots feel the same way as he does.

So, my loyalties are to the "Brit", but when he decides one day that he is "just Scottish", which is inevitable IMO, I can just acknowledge that he is a great tennis player, rather than a great tennis player with class.

Didn't I see him with a Scotland flag patch on his arm sleeve last week?

 

[Kaptain Karl]

Isn't Robert Lansdorp just a groundstroke and footwork coach?

This is either funny or incredibly senseless.

In that line of thinking ... Pat Riley and Phil Jackson just wear suits and get great seats to watch NBA games ... Mike Shanahan is just a glorified Towel Boy for the Broncos ... P Mac just sends an e-mail, and the US Davis Cup players clammor to be on the team; he doesn't do much of anything....

Sheesh!!!

- KK

 

[monfils]

This is either funny or incredibly senseless.

In that line of thinking ... Pat Riley and Phil Jackson just wear suits and get great seats to watch NBA games ... Mike Shanahan is just a glorified Towel Boy for the Broncos ... P Mac just sends an e-mail, and the US Davis Cup players clammor to be on the team; he doesn't do much of anything....

Sheesh!!!

- KK

What exactly are you saying?

 

[Phil]

I meant how many players were coached to number one, not coached when they were already number one. Tony Roche handled Rafter who never became number one, Federer who was already number one. What you have written is completely irrelevent. I am talking about coaches who coached a player to number one and you are giving me some players who were never even number one or were already number one.

Lansdorp coached Tracy Austin, Sampras, Davenport and Sharapova when they were still UNKNOWN-they weren't nor had they ever BEEN #1 when he started working with them. He MADE them into the players they became-i.e. #1 Hall of Fame Champions. So I'd suggest you put the shovel down and stop digging your hole any deeper.

 

[maynardsson55]

Lansdorp coached Tracy Austin, Sampras, Davenport and Sharapova when they were still UNKNOWN-they weren't nor had they ever BEEN #1 when he started working with them. He MADE them into the players they became-i.e. #1 Hall of Fame Champions. So I'd suggest you put the shovel down and stop digging your hole any deeper.

Hello, God, I've missed you. Oh, sorry, you told me you were just A God. There are not many that have stayed with their original coach all the way to #1. My fav, Edberg, I think did it with his coach Tony Pickard. I am sure he had other coaches in juniors though, I can't be sure. .............and I agree with everything Phil has said.