Musetti has done what Thiem, Tsitsipas, Guga, Muster, Wawrinka couldn’t

[Kralingen]

Of all the great one handers of the past 25 years, Lorenzo Musetti joins an elite club: winning 5 matches at Wimbledon with a one-handed backhand.

The list is headlined by the obvious grass court specialists: Federer, Sampras, Rafter, etc. Additional one-off runs come from the likes of Haas, Dimitrov and Shapovalov, but those are easily explainable: big serve, attacking FH, quick to approach net, a more “classical” approach to grass tennis in the vein of Becker, Federer, and Sampras.

Conspicuously absent from that list are the most successful non-Federer one handers of the modern era - Tsitsipas, Thiem, Wawrinka, Guga, Muster. Wondrous clay courters who challenged for #1 and also won big titles off of clay, clearly far superior to the likes of Musetti on HC. But why couldn’t they conquer grass, and Musetti can? Why can they play on HC, and he can’t?

Even more confounding is how Musetti does not fit the mold of a traditional grass court player - his forehand is a western mess, clearly the worst on the list, with a NextGen bent wrist takeback, and his serve is the weakest of any player mentioned, especially Tsits, Stan, and Guga.

So he isn’t winning with a forehand, and he definitely isn’t winning with a serve.

But somehow, Musetti and Gasquet have managed to outdo their fellow one handers on grass despite having liabilities for serves and downright poor forehands. Why? How?

 

[InsuranceMan]

Cristian Garin era

 

[Lleytonstation]

Keep wawa's name out your damn mouth

 

[fedfan24]

Zverev injury paved the way. He would’ve beat Fritz in straights if he could move properly then made the SF vs Djokovic. He has played with some nice variety too and been very good all grass season.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Baesetti

 

[Lleytonstation]

For starters, the courts play much slower and the grass competition is much weaker. The tour is less specialized. Not to mention this is one good run where mug2setsuppi beat who?

 

[Kralingen]

Keep wawa's name out your damn mouth

Wawrinka is perhaps a bit unfair, as he came the closest with the epic 5 setter vs Gasquet in 2015, a legitimately great match. But it’s not like he ever had grass court success - losing early very often even in his prime, and never winning a grass title.

For starters, the courts play much slower and the grass competition is much weaker. The tour is less specialized. Not to mention this is one good run where mug2setsuppi beat who?

But Thiem and Tsitsipas play in this era too, have much better serves and FHs, why can’t they do it?

 

[AO13]

Cakewalk draw.

1R Constant Lestienne (86)
2R Luciano Darderi (34)
3R Francisco Comesaña (122)

4R Giovanni Mpetshi Perricard (58) (LL)​

QF Taylor Fritz (13)

The only one who had easier draw to SF is Novak Djokovic, who had solid opponents for 4R (Holger Rune) and QF, but had a De Minaur walkover in QFs.​

 

[18x20 ftw]

Good post. Is it that Musetti’s slice is better than the other guys you mentioned?

 

[18x20 ftw]

Cakewalk draw.

1R Constant Lestienne (86)
2R Luciano Darderi (34)
3R Francisco Comesaña (122)

4R Giovanni Mpetshi Perricard (58) (LL)​

QF Taylor Fritz (13)

The only one who had easier draw to SF is Novak Djokovic, who had solid opponents for 4R (Holger Rune) and QF, but had a De Minaur walkover in QFs.​

Yes, but Musetti also got to the Queens final. He clearly is ok on grass.

 

[aldeayeah]

Nothing against Lorenzo but this run feels a bit flukish. No strong competition, and no easy wins. He has a nice baseline game and slice, but I expect him to lose horribly in the semi.

 

[18x20 ftw]

If everyone always throws their hands up and says weak era it’s really hard to converse on any of these topics.

 

[MeatTornado]

Nothing against Lorenzo but this run feels a bit flukish. No strong competition, and no easy wins. He has a nice baseline game and slice, but I expect him to lose horribly in the semi.

Just a bit?

 

[Kralingen]

So all of it’s just down to the mugs and the weak era? The specifics of how things happen in court doesn’t matter, just all about the competition?

 

[Rosstour]

But Thiem and Tsitsipas play in this era too, have much better serves and FHs, why can’t they do it?

Musetti has a higher ceiling and is more dangerous. That's the long and short of it

He's also a superior athlete to both of them.

Good post. Is it that Musetti’s slice is better than the other guys you mentioned?

That's a big part of it. He hit a slice that made the crowd murmur in astonishment...how many players can do that with a slice BH?

Nothing against Lorenzo but this run feels a bit flukish.

Just a bit?

It would feel flukish if he hadn't just made the Final of Queen's

 

[aldeayeah]

So all of it’s just down to the mugs and the weak era? The specifics of how things happen in court doesn’t matter, just all about the competition?

Well, let's see how he does against the Big Bad Serbian Wolf.

 

[tennis_error]

This is one of those one in a carrier runs. We've seen similar flukish runs from many players. Everything aligned for him. He is out tomorrow and I doubt we will see him again in the Wimbledon SF.

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

To be fair. This era is weak on grass. In the 1990’s it was amazing and deep. I have no doubt muster or Kuerten would be year round dominant players just like sinner and alcaraz with these strings/rackets/sports medicine and conditions. In a few years we could see complete mugs winning Wimbledon Especially of sinner/alcaraz can’t stay healthy

Winning just one wimbledon back in the 90’s is worth about 5 Wimbledons today adjusted for inflation and MUGness of the field

 

[FlyingSaucer]

Grassetti soon to become GOATsetti

 

[zagor]

To be fair. This era is weak on grass. In the 1990’s it was amazing and deep. I have no doubt muster or Kuerten would be year round dominant players just like sinner and alcaraz with these strings/rackets/sports medicine and conditions. In a few years we could see complete mugs winning Wimbledon Especially of sinner/alcaraz can’t stay healthy

Winning just one wimbledon back in the 90’s is worth about 5 Wimbledons today adjusted for inflation and MUGness of the field

Adjusted for inflation and mugness I seriously loled.

 

[Kralingen]

Maybe a better question: why has Musetti found success on grass but almost none on HC?

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

Med could potentially win Wimbledon this year. Imagine Med on 90’s grass against that field LOL

 

[FlyingSaucer]

Maybe a better question: why has Musetti found success on grass but almost none on HC?

I've actually watched very little of him on grass but is his footwork playing any or much of a role in his improved performance/results on grass?

 

[zagor]

Med could potentially win Wimbledon this year. Imagine Med on 90’s grass against that field LOL

Not just the field but the grass was different as well, balls too. Pretty sure say Guga would be making deep runs on today's grass.

Conversely very few of today's robotic baseliners would be able to adjust to 90s grass, those dead bounces would be killing them.

 

[L4S10s]

Maybe a better question: why has Musetti found success on grass but almost none on HC?

he will, expect him to do well in the north american season.
i think something is starting to click with him.

 

[beltsman]

Cakewalk draw.

1R Constant Lestienne (86)
2R Luciano Darderi (34)
3R Francisco Comesaña (122)

4R Giovanni Mpetshi Perricard (58) (LL)​

QF Taylor Fritz (13)

The only one who had easier draw to SF is Novak Djokovic, who had solid opponents for 4R (Holger Rune) and QF, but had a De Minaur walkover in QFs.​

LOL this is like a qualifier

 

[Kralingen]

Not just the field but the grass was different as well, balls too. Pretty sure say Guga would be making deep runs on today's grass.

Why? What was his grass game like?

 

[Lleytonstation]

Why? What was his grass game like?

I honestly do not think he played a ton on grass like at all. Maybe 10 matches.

 

[Vincent-C]

Of all the great one handers of the past 25 years, Lorenzo Musetti joins an elite club: winning 5 matches at Wimbledon with a one-handed backhand.

The list is headlined by the obvious grass court specialists: Federer, Sampras, Rafter, etc. Additional one-off runs come from the likes of Haas, Dimitrov and Shapovalov, but those are easily explainable: big serve, attacking FH, quick to approach net, a more “classical” approach to grass tennis in the vein of Becker, Federer, and Sampras.

Conspicuously absent from that list are the most successful non-Federer one handers of the modern era - Tsitsipas, Thiem, Wawrinka, Guga, Muster. Wondrous clay courters who challenged for #1 and also won big titles off of clay, clearly far superior to the likes of Musetti on HC. But why couldn’t they conquer grass, and Musetti can? Why can they play on HC, and he can’t?

Even more confounding is how Musetti does not fit the mold of a traditional grass court player - his forehand is a western mess, clearly the worst on the list, with a NextGen bent wrist takeback, and his serve is the weakest of any player mentioned, especially Tsits, Stan, and Guga.

So he isn’t winning with a forehand, and he definitely isn’t winning with a serve.

But somehow, Musetti and Gasquet have managed to outdo their fellow one handers on grass despite having liabilities for serves and downright poor forehands. Why? How?

I do enjoy a well-posed question.

 

[RS]

If he doesn't win the tournament TTW call him a mug

 

[junior74]

I love the one-handed backhand.

Two-handed backhand is for girls.

 

[Kralingen]

If he doesn't win the tournament TTW call him a mug

That’s all this place is, mugs and weak era, no one actually interested in discussing what’s happening between the lines.

 

[McLovin]

Of all the great one handers of the past 25 years, Lorenzo Musetti joins an elite club: winning 5 matches at Wimbledon with a one-handed backhand.

The list is headlined by the obvious grass court specialists: Federer, Sampras, Rafter, etc. Additional one-off runs come from the likes of Haas, Dimitrov and Shapovalov, but those are easily explainable: big serve, attacking FH, quick to approach net, a more “classical” approach to grass tennis in the vein of Becker, Federer, and Sampras.

Conspicuously absent from that list are the most successful non-Federer one handers of the modern era - Tsitsipas, Thiem, Wawrinka, Guga, Muster. Wondrous clay courters who challenged for #1 and also won big titles off of clay, clearly far superior to the likes of Musetti on HC. But why couldn’t they conquer grass, and Musetti can? Why can they play on HC, and he can’t?

Even more confounding is how Musetti does not fit the mold of a traditional grass court player - his forehand is a western mess, clearly the worst on the list, with a NextGen bent wrist takeback, and his serve is the weakest of any player mentioned, especially Tsits, Stan, and Guga.

So he isn’t winning with a forehand, and he definitely isn’t winning with a serve.

But somehow, Musetti and Gasquet have managed to outdo their fellow one handers on grass despite having liabilities for serves and downright poor forehands. Why? How?

Not sure how you can talk about 1-handers at Wimbledon and forget one of the best 1-handers of his era: Edberg. I mean...he did make the finals 3 years in a row, winning this thing twice...

 

[Grafil Injection]

Henman did it four times of course, with his OHBH, against some pretty decent players in earlier rounds.

 

[RaulRamirez]

If everyone always throws their hands up and says weak era it’s really hard to converse on any of these topics.

Unfortunately, they (all) throw their hands down and type it.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Things he has going for him on grass:

1. He does move well on this surface. Movement is necessary to be great in the modern game. Just ask Andy “The Oracle” Rawduck about how important it is. And considering many players don’t know how to move that well on grass that gives him a huge advantage.

2. He has a great slice which was clearly giving Fritz fits. He basically junk balled him into oblivion. Combine that with his movement and he’s able to play some surprisingly good defense. And his slice actually translates into being good at blocking back serves, especially on his BH side.

3. As many others have pointed out he’s had a cakewalk draw here thus far. And that’s a big consequence of grass having by far the shallowest talent pool of all the surfaces for a long time now.

 

[RaulRamirez]

To some extent, the draw set up nicely to this point, but Fritz was a very solid win.
Musetti is young (22), and a good athlete. I think his movement is better than Stan/Gasquet/Tsitsi...and possibly Thiem..
he's developed a nice BH slice and (while not as accomplished as any of the others yet) is a creative shotmaker.

Perhaps, until he improves his FH - if he does - his movement and shotmaking flair may make him more dangerous on both natural surfaces than HC.

 

[AO13]

Yes, but Musetti also got to the Queens final. He clearly is ok on grass.

Will lose 0:3 tomorrow against Djokovic.

 

[Tano]

Of all the great one handers of the past 25 years, Lorenzo Musetti joins an elite club: winning 5 matches at Wimbledon with a one-handed backhand.

The list is headlined by the obvious grass court specialists: Federer, Sampras, Rafter, etc. Additional one-off runs come from the likes of Haas, Dimitrov and Shapovalov, but those are easily explainable: big serve, attacking FH, quick to approach net, a more “classical” approach to grass tennis in the vein of Becker, Federer, and Sampras.

Conspicuously absent from that list are the most successful non-Federer one handers of the modern era - Tsitsipas, Thiem, Wawrinka, Guga, Muster. Wondrous clay courters who challenged for #1 and also won big titles off of clay, clearly far superior to the likes of Musetti on HC. But why couldn’t they conquer grass, and Musetti can? Why can they play on HC, and he can’t?

Even more confounding is how Musetti does not fit the mold of a traditional grass court player - his forehand is a western mess, clearly the worst on the list, with a NextGen bent wrist takeback, and his serve is the weakest of any player mentioned, especially Tsits, Stan, and Guga.

So he isn’t winning with a forehand, and he definitely isn’t winning with a serve.

But somehow, Musetti and Gasquet have managed to outdo their fellow one handers on grass despite having liabilities for serves and downright poor forehands. Why? How?

I really doubt that Musetti would have had a better performance than Kuerten against Agassi at Wimbledon 1999, a much faster grass than now.
That version of the Brazilian would be a candidate to win the title in this edition of Wimbledon.

 

[N01E]

Of all the great one handers of the past 25 years, Lorenzo Musetti joins an elite club: winning 5 matches at Wimbledon with a one-handed backhand.

The list is headlined by the obvious grass court specialists: Federer, Sampras, Rafter, etc. Additional one-off runs come from the likes of Haas, Dimitrov and Shapovalov, but those are easily explainable: big serve, attacking FH, quick to approach net, a more “classical” approach to grass tennis in the vein of Becker, Federer, and Sampras.

Conspicuously absent from that list are the most successful non-Federer one handers of the modern era - Tsitsipas, Thiem, Wawrinka, Guga, Muster. Wondrous clay courters who challenged for #1 and also won big titles off of clay, clearly far superior to the likes of Musetti on HC. But why couldn’t they conquer grass, and Musetti can? Why can they play on HC, and he can’t?

Even more confounding is how Musetti does not fit the mold of a traditional grass court player - his forehand is a western mess, clearly the worst on the list, with a NextGen bent wrist takeback, and his serve is the weakest of any player mentioned, especially Tsits, Stan, and Guga.

So he isn’t winning with a forehand, and he definitely isn’t winning with a serve.

But somehow, Musetti and Gasquet have managed to outdo their fellow one handers on grass despite having liabilities for serves and downright poor forehands. Why? How?

I guess "Musetti has done what Dimitrov, Gasquet and Shapovalov had done before him" doesn't have that nice ring to it.

 

[tennisandtennis]

Cakewalk draw.

1R Constant Lestienne (86)
2R Luciano Darderi (34)
3R Francisco Comesaña (122)

4R Giovanni Mpetshi Perricard (58) (LL)​

QF Taylor Fritz (13)

The only one who had easier draw to SF is Novak Djokovic, who had solid opponents for 4R (Holger Rune) and QF, but had a De Minaur walkover in QFs.​

This really is the explanation. I think GMP is going to make several SF (or better) in his career, but he’s what, 19 and a day? Just started playing Tour-level matches in the past few months. His record of 10-7 might be the result of him playing his first tourneys on his most-natural surface (although I do see him as a big threat on fast indoor courts like Paris and Shanghai).

Point is, Musetti had a cakewalk draw. Put him in Sinner’s draw and he’s out in R3. If he beats Djokovic tomorrow, we can revisit.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

@Kralingen

Variety a revelation on grass​

Musetti was 6-7 lifetime on grass ahead of 2024. This year? He’s a spectacular 12-2 on the surface. So what has been the difference? The Italian says he is learning how to disrupt his opponent’s rhythm and dictate the terms of the tennis with his variety.


“Especially like with a good baseliner like Taylor, if you play every time flat, I cannot win a point,” he said. “I mean, I’m playing his game.


“So probably it was the strategy to try to mix every ball and try to [dictate] the game. Certain points of the match I felt from the baseline I could… win every point. He was not in a good position with all my variation. It’s certainly something that I’m really working on. Since I was a kid, I always didn’t like to do the same stuff on the court, not to be, let’s say, mono-automatic on the court. Probably it’s a good help on grass, and I’m using it this week.”

“I always finished with a lesson” - Musetti outlines how he may overcome Grand Slam king Djokovic at Wimbledon

Lorenzo Musetti hopes that lessons learned can fuel him in his Wimbledon semi-final against Novak Djokovic

www.tennismajors.com

 

[Lleytonstation]

To be honest I point to age. I keep forgetting he is 22 as he made significant impact getting his name out there with some close big matches.

Maybe we just grab our mugs before the sun has risen.

 

[SonnyT]

Weak field! Guys are complaining about weak field for Djokovic all week long, so how Djoko's weak one-fourth translates to Musetti's strong one-fourth?

Zverev played the first two sets like he was on fire. And then came the 3rd set, and he choked, as simple as that! He didn't pick up any additional injury between the 3rd and 4th sets, did he?

 

[Kralingen]

Weak field! Guys are complaining about weak field for Djokovic all week long, so how Djoko's weak one-fourth translates to Musetti's strong one-fourth?

Zverev played the first two sets like he was on fire. And then came the 3rd set, and he choked, as simple as that! He didn't pick up any additional injury between the 3rd and 4th sets, did he?

actually he did fall on his knee during the match and its condition seemed to deteriorate pretty rapidly.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Maybe we just grab our mugs before the sun has risen.

But there is still an opportunity for Djoker to expose Musetti's false dawn.

 

[junior74]

@Kralingen

Variety a revelation on grass​

Musetti was 6-7 lifetime on grass ahead of 2024. This year? He’s a spectacular 12-2 on the surface. So what has been the difference? The Italian says he is learning how to disrupt his opponent’s rhythm and dictate the terms of the tennis with his variety.


“Especially like with a good baseliner like Taylor, if you play every time flat, I cannot win a point,” he said. “I mean, I’m playing his game.


“So probably it was the strategy to try to mix every ball and try to [dictate] the game. Certain points of the match I felt from the baseline I could… win every point. He was not in a good position with all my variation. It’s certainly something that I’m really working on. Since I was a kid, I always didn’t like to do the same stuff on the court, not to be, let’s say, mono-automatic on the court. Probably it’s a good help on grass, and I’m using it this week.”

“I always finished with a lesson” - Musetti outlines how he may overcome Grand Slam king Djokovic at Wimbledon

Lorenzo Musetti hopes that lessons learned can fuel him in his Wimbledon semi-final against Novak Djokovic

www.tennismajors.com

Good info. I was commenting how Musetti thought the court had already translated into clay in set 1. And then he started mixing it up. Variation in pace, spin, height over the net, luring Fritz forward, lobbing, and playing more from inside the baseline. It was a very strong performance, but those who like last man standing duells won't like this type of tennis, which I absolutely love.

 

[ibbi]

Guga played tennis in a whole other age and I think is barely comparable. People crying weak era, I mean, sure, but it has been for Stef and Stan and Thiem too.

I think Stef and Thiem being sort of famed for their lack of return and slice plays a key part in their lack of success. Lorenzo has a nice slice, and he's just knocked off two massive servers in succession. He was reading Perricard, in particular, like a book. Gasquet was for a while there just a really good grass player, he also could slice, he had a knack for getting to the net even without a great serve, and had tremendous hands all overcoming the aspects of his game that made no sense for the surface.

Add on to that the magic of grasscourt footwork. I think Gasquet and Musetti seem far more obviously small and nimble of step than these more dyed-in-the-wool dirtballers. Gasquet and Musetti also both excel at changing pace, these other dudes did not. Thiem was a completely brainless player till Massu came long, Tsitsipas still is one.

I don't know that these things Tsitsipas and Domi so clearly lack apply to the same degree to Stan, but he was damn good for a couple of years on the surface. He got well and truly fncked by the scheduling in 2014 when he was on fire, and the year after just ran into one of the people we're talking about who is just better on the surface.

 

[vokazu]

Of all the great one handers of the past 25 years, Lorenzo Musetti joins an elite club: winning 5 matches at Wimbledon with a one-handed backhand.

The list is headlined by the obvious grass court specialists: Federer, Sampras, Rafter, etc. Additional one-off runs come from the likes of Haas, Dimitrov and Shapovalov, but those are easily explainable: big serve, attacking FH, quick to approach net, a more “classical” approach to grass tennis in the vein of Becker, Federer, and Sampras.

Conspicuously absent from that list are the most successful non-Federer one handers of the modern era - Tsitsipas, Thiem, Wawrinka, Guga, Muster. Wondrous clay courters who challenged for #1 and also won big titles off of clay, clearly far superior to the likes of Musetti on HC. But why couldn’t they conquer grass, and Musetti can? Why can they play on HC, and he can’t?

Even more confounding is how Musetti does not fit the mold of a traditional grass court player - his forehand is a western mess, clearly the worst on the list, with a NextGen bent wrist takeback, and his serve is the weakest of any player mentioned, especially Tsits, Stan, and Guga.

So he isn’t winning with a forehand, and he definitely isn’t winning with a serve.

But somehow, Musetti and Gasquet have managed to outdo their fellow one handers on grass despite having liabilities for serves and downright poor forehands. Why? How?

Musetti is more creative and he thinks out of the box. His balls variety (short and deep slices, lobs) made Fritz so uncomfortable. He certainly knows how to play an opponent and not just hit good powerful balls. He knows how to move opponents around.

 

[Vincent-C]

Good info. I was commenting how Musetti thought the court had already translated into clay in set 1. And then he started mixing it up. Variation in pace, spin, height over the net, luring Fritz forward, lobbing, and playing more from inside the baseline. It was a very strong performance, but those who like last man standing duells won't like this type of tennis, which I absolutely love.

In other words Lorenzo was playing Real Tennis.