My 2nd serves suck (Help me get a kick serve) (vid)

[BirdWalkR]

A quick vid of serves. The first one is a flat while the next serves are attempted topspin/kick (i know there not great lol)

http://s999.photobucket.com/albums/af114/BirdWalk-R/?action=view&current=MyMovie-1.mp4

Things i thought i should work on/observations
1.) jumping into court an not spinning on left leg
2.) maybe slightly higher toss?
3.) getting my left foot in front of right foot during pinpoint stance (like the lockandrolltennis teacher)
4.) Trophy pose doesnt look right either (idk why? maybe racquet arm doesnt drop enough?)

I want to get a fundamentally sound serve in approx two months if i can! Been working on my serve forever so hopefully its not so terrible

 

[rufusbgood]

Is it possible for you to upload to youtube instead of photobucket? Videos on youtube never look this choppy.

 

[Xizel]

Toss is too far to the right. You're not hitting at optimal extension, which is farther up. You're lacking a deep racquet drop (BIG one).

 

[BirdWalkR]

Toss is too far to the right. You're not hitting at optimal extension, which is farther up. You're lacking a deep racquet drop (BIG one).

What does racquet drop mean?

Is it possible for you to upload to youtube instead of photobucket? Videos on youtube never look this choppy.

An it might look choppy because it was recorded on my cell phone. ill see if i can post it on my youtube account as well. although i havent used in a few years

 

[Xizel]

It's essentially the backswing of your serve. The more distance the racquet has to accelerate before contact, the more potential for racquet head speed, which dictates pace and spin. Note the line being drawn of the bottom of the racquet in relation to the body. Yours is much shorter.

If you're loose and relaxed, gravity will do a lot of work for you, but to get a deeper racquet drop, you have to make a conscious effort to stretch your shoulders back.

 

[BirdWalkR]

It's essentially the backswing of your serve. The more distance the racquet has to accelerate before contact, the more potential for racquet head speed, which dictates pace and spin. Note the line being drawn of the bottom of the racquet in relation to the body. Yours is much shorter.

If you're loose and relaxed, gravity will do a lot of work for you, but to get a deeper racquet drop, you have to make a conscious effort to stretch your shoulders back.

Oh ok yeah i virtually have no deeps backswing. appreciate the advice just another thing to work on!

 

[Ballinbob]

I agree with what Xizel said.

Also though, you want more upper body rotation on that serve. You want to keep your left shoulder higher than your right and really rotate into the ball. Pete Sampras is a good example of this as he does it really well.

Make sure to practice a consistent toss as well.

Good luck !

 

[TennisCJC]

Here's a few basic's to consider:

1. Toss the ball above your front shoulder or just above your heart.
2. Maintain a closed shoulder position at toss and into hit. In other words, don't open your shoulders to the court. Your chest will point toward the side fence and even a bit toward the back fence.
3. Keep the front arm up - point at the ball - exaggerate it at first. It will feel arkward. This should also result in front shoulder being higher than back shoulder in trophy position. I also advise the front arm be roughly parallel with the baseline as this helps close the shoulders and hitting to the side as described below.
4. Think hit up the front arm. Visually your front arm pointing at the contact point and then the racket head will take the path of the front arm up to the ball.
5. As you hit up, don't over rotate foreward with your shoulders - they will rotate a bit toward open but keep then closed until you start foreward and don't open them fully thru the hit. To hit kick or top/slice, you are actually hitting up and toward the R side fence. If you rotate the shoulders open, you cannot hit toward the side fence and you usually end up with a flat serve - no spin.
6. At contact, your hand holding the racket will be 6-12 inches outside (to the right of the contact point. With the hand outside the contact point, the angle of the racket will be almost 45 degrees to the left of straight up kind of like this slash \ - hand at bottom of slash and contact point at top of slash. You are brushing up and to the R across the ball with the strings - racket head going up and then toward side fence.

I would not worry too much about your legs for now. Just keep the knees slightly bent (an inch or two - no stiff legs) and relaxed when you start the swing. Maintain good balance with soft knees - not rigid.

Basics: Just close shoulders, arm parallel to baseline, then arm pointing up, hit up the front arm which should be pointing toward the side fence, and get the hand outside of the ball (\) which allows you to hit top/slice or kick.

Once you start getting decent spin on the ball, try speeding up the racket head but keep a loose relaxed grip and shoulder. You are trying to hit it fast but not hard. Fast is with speed - hard is with muscle. You want relaxed speed not muscle contraction as contraction slows down your arm.

Sam Stosar's kick serve video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnqYduBcmNQ

Her toss is more behind her than over her heart/shoulder but you can start with toss over front shoulder/heart.

Also, notice the angle between hand and contact. She uses the 45 degree \ angle - all kick serves do.

EXAGGERATE holding up the front arm and hitting up the arm at first. Almost all non-pros drop front up too soon or don't get it fully up - I still struggle with this. Almost all pros have a strong "pointing up" arm and a firm front side.

 

[Limpinhitter]

A quick vid of serves. The first one is a flat while the next serves are attempted topspin/kick (i know there not great lol)

http://s999.photobucket.com/albums/af114/BirdWalk-R/?action=view&current=MyMovie-1.mp4

Things i thought i should work on/observations
1.) jumping into court an not spinning on left leg
2.) maybe slightly higher toss?
3.) getting my left foot in front of right foot during pinpoint stance (like the lockandrolltennis teacher)
4.) Trophy pose doesnt look right either (idk why? maybe racquet arm doesnt drop enough?)

I want to get a fundamentally sound serve in approx two months if i can! Been working on my serve forever so hopefully its not so terrible

First, I would suggest learning how to throw a ball. Then incorporate the same throwing motion in to your serve. Until you learn to do that, all these other issues are premature.

 

[rdis10093]

bend those knees and then snap through it son

 

[Ducker]

get some decent tennis shoes first

 

[Ryoma]

Let's take a step back and show us your topspin forehand. If you can hit a topspin forehand from the baseline that bounce over the head or shoulder of you opponent. Then you can move on to a kick serve. It's basically the same idea how you strike the ball. Don't listen to all those toss to the left, behind your head and 7 o'clock to 1 o'clock instruction.

Ask yourself if you think about hitting from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock on your forehand? what about a cross forehand? The fact is we live in a 3D world, all the orientation changes once you start your motion. It's easier to have a solid foundation of hitting a decent topspin forehand. Once you get it, you can apply the same principal to pretty much every stroke.

 

[charliefedererer]

A quick vid of serves. The first one is a flat while the next serves are attempted topspin/kick (i know there not great lol)

http://s999.photobucket.com/albums/af114/BirdWalk-R/?action=view&current=MyMovie-1.mp4

Things i thought i should work on/observations
1.) jumping into court an not spinning on left leg
2.) maybe slightly higher toss?
3.) getting my left foot in front of right foot during pinpoint stance (like the lockandrolltennis teacher)
4.) Trophy pose doesnt look right either (idk why? maybe racquet arm doesnt drop enough?)

I want to get a fundamentally sound serve in approx two months if i can! Been working on my serve forever so hopefully its not so terrible

"You are only as good as your second serve."


There are two keys to a kick serve that will let you hit it different from your "flat" serve:
1. Toss almost over your head.
2. Bigger shoulder turn.


You'll have to work on tossing to this location.

Your biggest problem right now is that with your pinpoint stance step up, you are swinging your back shoulder forward into the court way before you should be.

Watch this video from "The Serve Doctor" starting at 3:50 into the video on how to hit a topspin serve, and the need to use a "bigger shoulder wind", and to maintain that until the forward swing starts.
Serve Doctor's Simplified Spring-loaded Serve Technique http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixx-MCC7D88




I will address your 4 questions with responses below:
[As Tennis CJC mentions you've got to keep your tossing arm going up in a "follow through" of your tossing motion until it is straight up, and keep it straight up above you until you start the swinging motion to maintain your balance as you wind your shoulders back more into your trophy position. This should fix your concern about your trophy position.
See pics 3,4 below. And see pic 4 for how steep the shoulder angle between the front and back shoulder should be in your trophy position.

]

[Because you don't get a steep shoulder angle, as you swing, you are swinging your shoulders around mainly from right to left. If you can get that high shoulder angle, then the primary direction of your shoulder movement should be a vertical reversal of your shoulder angle so your back shoulder moves almost straight up and your front shoulder almost straight down, as seen as pics 4-8 above.
This is discussed as so very important in this video:
Preventing Rotator Cuff Injury http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRvxaBMh8s
When you learn to develop a vertical "shoulder over shoulder" action, you will stop spinning around on your left leg, as this is just a symptom that you are spinning your upper body/shoulders around with your current horizontal shoulder action.]

[A very slightly higher toss may be necessary to allow yourself to wind your shoulders back further. But don't make it so high as to develop a hitch in your swing.]

[The further forward you bring your rear foot, the more difficult it is to maintain the "big shoulder wind" you need for a topspin serve. So that even though you get a "tighter wind" all the way through your body, the difficulty in balancing may lead to more difficulty mastering the serve. (Djoker and Fed are at least two current players who think the added stability of a platform stance outweighs any advantage of the pinpoint, but you decide for yourself.) If you do keep your pinpoint, notice in the above posted video of Sam Stosur's kick serve http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnqYduBcmNQ that she has a relatively small step up with her rear foot, and keeps it to the left of her front foot to help maintain her shoulder wind/balance.]