My 3.5 Tennis Gameplay
- Thread starter pdizzy
- Start date
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
You are completely flat-footed as your opponent is about to hit; you need to learn the split-step, which will get you into optimal balance, ready to move in any direction. Watch any high-level player and how active they are on their feet.
Most of your errors are into the net: where are you aiming on those occasions? Aim 5' above the net.
Most points end in errors, not winners. Increasing your consistency will boost your game but make sure to work not only on consistency but placement and good topspin as well; you could push and be consistent but I believe that will limit you more than if you learned sound stroke technique.
Most of your errors are into the net: where are you aiming on those occasions? Aim 5' above the net.
Most points end in errors, not winners. Increasing your consistency will boost your game but make sure to work not only on consistency but placement and good topspin as well; you could push and be consistent but I believe that will limit you more than if you learned sound stroke technique.
NuBas
Legend
I am gonna be harsh and say this is not 3.5 level, however no reason why you cannot get there and beyond. I think you have great nimble footwork but you are way too casual, maybe your choice of opponent is not good for your development since you are not being pushed hard enough. Hard to evaluate your game when half of the video you are barely moving.
Technically you have to evaluate your own strokes again cause although you got good hand-eye coordination, you will see your strokes have to change as you improve. My biggest suggestion is you work on your upper body unit turn and work more from core and hips.
You should ask specific questions on what you want to improve and choose 1-2 things to focus on improving.
Technically you have to evaluate your own strokes again cause although you got good hand-eye coordination, you will see your strokes have to change as you improve. My biggest suggestion is you work on your upper body unit turn and work more from core and hips.
You should ask specific questions on what you want to improve and choose 1-2 things to focus on improving.
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Mark Asher
Rookie
I was thinking it wasn't quite 3.5 either, though frankly ratings are always confusing to me. There's just not the consistency I'd expect to see in a 3.5. I agree with S&V-not_dead_yet -- learn topspin and increase the safety of your shots. I'd also practice getting more quickly prepared for the next shot. Don't be flat-footed waiting to see what your opponent does.
coupergear
Professional
Sampras "hug me" FH.
eelhc
Hall of Fame
Are you seriously calling Pete's forehand a "hug me"? assuming you're serious so I'll attempt to explain the differences.
Sampras has his left shoulder, arm and hand out of the way so his right arm is clear to swing through. His hands come together at the end AFTER he's swung through the ball.
The player in the red up top has moves his left arm/hand to his right side AS he is swinging through the ball. His left actually ends up in his right armpit.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I think OP would beat a good majority of 3.0's as his WT serve has decent pace and location, which is often all you need. He would get beat by a lot of 3.5's even with the recognition that everything looks ten times slower on video.
Too many easy errors.
Lots to improve on but I think footwork and what to do with your nondominant hand is where to start.
Too many easy errors.
Lots to improve on but I think footwork and what to do with your nondominant hand is where to start.
Traffic
Hall of Fame
I just want to commend you for videoing yourself to analyze and then to hang yourself out on the internet for all to see and make comments on. Pretty brave. But hopefully it'll help your tennis.
I'm about to try it myself!
Wait for my 3.0 video!!
coupergear
Professional
Hahaha ok so Sampras has a high late hug.
eelhc
Hall of Fame
It's not a "hug me" (arms Cross/wrap around).
What Sampras has is a sound, basic tennis practice taught to 6 year olds starting the game. It's the "put the racuet in the backpack" finish.
Since the OP put the video up to request analysis of us game, I pointed this out. The "hug me" forehand will not provide consistency or power. He has to get the left arm and body out of the way and allow his right side (not just the arm) to rotate through impact. At the finish, he can stick the "racquet in the backpack" with both hands like Sampras.
The "hug me" forehand is basically an arm swing. Its impossible to drive with the legs and rotate the right side through when the left arm is rotating against the right. it's a very common and very debilitating habit.
OP needs hitting/ball machine sessions where he concentrates on weight shift and rotation, "catches" the handle with the left hand, and "puts it in the backpack" on forehand followthroughs.
OPs serve is not quite as bad a "hug me" but is still an arm swing. He adds some power by lunging his body into the serve but he's giving up a lot of power with the left arm movement. I would first stop moving the left hand under the right armpit during the stroke.
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eelhc
Hall of Fame
Don't confuse NTRP with tennis skills. NTRP these days is determined by results... (seems fair enough). I've seen 4.0 doubles players who are old, fat, out of shape with little tennis skill who got there with a hard, frying pan serve and soft hands at the net. A lot of these guys wouldn't last a singles set against a 3.0 singles player before cardiac arrest but... they're 4.0. I really do wish there were doubles and singles ratings.
Do they still do sight ratings? According to the descriptions below, OP could be a 3.5. That said, OP could have prevented wisecracks by leaving the number out of his post.
NTRP
Do they still do sight ratings? According to the descriptions below, OP could be a 3.5. That said, OP could have prevented wisecracks by leaving the number out of his post.
NTRP
1.0 This player is just starting to play tennis.
1.5 This player has limited playing experience and is still working primarily on getting the ball into play.
2.0 This player needs on-court experience. This player has obvious stroke weaknesses but is familiar with basic positions for singles and doubles play.
2.5 This player is learning to judge where the ball is going although court coverage is weak. This player can sustain a slow rally with other players of same ability.
3.0 This player is consistent when hitting medium pace shots, but is not comfortable with all strokes and lacks control when trying for directional intent, depth, or power.
3.5 This player has achieved improved stroke dependability and direction on moderate pace shots, but still lacks depth and variety. This player exhibits more aggressive net play, has improved court coverage and is developing teamwork in doubles.
4.0 This player has dependable strokes, including directional intent, on both forehand and backhand sides on moderate shots, plus the ability to use lobs, overheads, approach shots and volleys with some success. This player occasionally forces errors when serving and teamwork in doubles is evident.
4.5 This player has begun to master the use of power and spins and is beginning to handle pace, has sound footwork, can control depth of shots, and is beginning to vary tactics according to opponents. This player can hit first serves with power and accuracy and place the second serve and is able to rush the net successfully.
5.0 This player has good shot anticipation and frequently has an outstanding shot or attribute around which a game may be structured. This player can regularly hit winners or force errors off of short balls, can put away volleys, can successfully execute lobs, drop shots, half volleys and overhead smashes, and has good depth and spin on most second serves.
5.5 This player has developed power and/or consistency as a major weapon. This player can vary strategies and styles of play in a competitive situation and hits dependable shots in a stress situation.
6.0 These players will generally not need NRTP rankings. Rankings or past rankings will speak for themselves. The 6.0 player typically has had intensive training for national tournament competition at the junior level and collegiate levels and has obtained a sectional or national ranking.
The 6.5 player has a reasonable chance of succeeding at the 7.0 level and has extensive satellite tournament experience.
The 7.0 is a world class player who is committed to tournament competition on the international level and whose major source of income is tournament prize winnings.
1.5 This player has limited playing experience and is still working primarily on getting the ball into play.
2.0 This player needs on-court experience. This player has obvious stroke weaknesses but is familiar with basic positions for singles and doubles play.
2.5 This player is learning to judge where the ball is going although court coverage is weak. This player can sustain a slow rally with other players of same ability.
3.0 This player is consistent when hitting medium pace shots, but is not comfortable with all strokes and lacks control when trying for directional intent, depth, or power.
3.5 This player has achieved improved stroke dependability and direction on moderate pace shots, but still lacks depth and variety. This player exhibits more aggressive net play, has improved court coverage and is developing teamwork in doubles.
4.0 This player has dependable strokes, including directional intent, on both forehand and backhand sides on moderate shots, plus the ability to use lobs, overheads, approach shots and volleys with some success. This player occasionally forces errors when serving and teamwork in doubles is evident.
4.5 This player has begun to master the use of power and spins and is beginning to handle pace, has sound footwork, can control depth of shots, and is beginning to vary tactics according to opponents. This player can hit first serves with power and accuracy and place the second serve and is able to rush the net successfully.
5.0 This player has good shot anticipation and frequently has an outstanding shot or attribute around which a game may be structured. This player can regularly hit winners or force errors off of short balls, can put away volleys, can successfully execute lobs, drop shots, half volleys and overhead smashes, and has good depth and spin on most second serves.
5.5 This player has developed power and/or consistency as a major weapon. This player can vary strategies and styles of play in a competitive situation and hits dependable shots in a stress situation.
6.0 These players will generally not need NRTP rankings. Rankings or past rankings will speak for themselves. The 6.0 player typically has had intensive training for national tournament competition at the junior level and collegiate levels and has obtained a sectional or national ranking.
The 6.5 player has a reasonable chance of succeeding at the 7.0 level and has extensive satellite tournament experience.
The 7.0 is a world class player who is committed to tournament competition on the international level and whose major source of income is tournament prize winnings.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Has anyone actually seen >= 6.0 attached to someone's name? The highest I've seen is 5.5 and there aren't that many.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Once upon a time, you got assigned your level by a pro watching you play using guidelines set up by the NTRP. I think that's probably a more valid way to look at these videos than trying to label people based on where a regional computer places them. I mean they could be 5.0 in Uzbekistan if there was no competition.
Bottom line, these guys are intermediate tennis players in the 3.0-3.5 range based purely on the described skills in the NTRP guidelines. Its probably less important to focus on their actual level, and what skills they need to work on.
eelhc
Hall of Fame
LOL... see what's happening here?
OP was posting a video hoping to get advice. he made the mistake of including 2 numbers and a period. Now the the thread has degenerated into a stupid, pointless NTRP discussion (myself guilty as well). Once again... it's about the skills, not the number.
Getting back on the point. Aside from getting into an athletic position (bending the knees and getting lower)... which is good generic advice to practically anyone, he really needs to get that left arm/hand out of the way on forehands and serves.
OP was posting a video hoping to get advice. he made the mistake of including 2 numbers and a period. Now the the thread has degenerated into a stupid, pointless NTRP discussion (myself guilty as well). Once again... it's about the skills, not the number.
Getting back on the point. Aside from getting into an athletic position (bending the knees and getting lower)... which is good generic advice to practically anyone, he really needs to get that left arm/hand out of the way on forehands and serves.
Traffic
Hall of Fame
BTW, what is your setup for video recording?
pdizzy
Rookie
My video recording means are just a spider mount on fence and my IPhone mostly. Usually am only able to record one set at that.
Traffic
Hall of Fame
Thanks. Looks like we have similar setups. I guess I just need to mess with where I mount my phone a bit more to get a better view. I'm using a Samsung with plug in memory card. But for some reason, it chopped my clip about 2/3 way through and then started again. Weird.
Here's a thread with my first video: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/i-now-hate-looking-into-a-mirror.596787/
Could be a file size limitation issue? I know with my Canon DSLR I'm limited to 16 and change minutes per clip because of NTFS file size limitations. Basically it can't write a file bigger than 4GB so it has to stop and start a new file. Could the Samsung be the same?
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
Anyone who thinks this is not 3.5 has never seen himself on video. Record your every point good and bad, view and then be ready to be shocked.
If you think ATP and WTA pros look good on TV, go watch them in person. Their levels are unbelievable.
If you think ATP and WTA pros look good on TV, go watch them in person. Their levels are unbelievable.
OnTheLine
Hall of Fame
I've never liked these descriptions. According to this, based on how I play, I am a 4.5. (Hahahaha) May be why based on the old ratings clinics that was where I was put back 25 years ago.
Especially at the 4.0 and 4.5 levels these descriptions do the players at those levels a grave disservice. Most 4.5 players that I know are doing MUCH more than "beginning to handle pace and beginning to vary tactics" they are well beyond that!
Additionally, the descriptions of 3.0 and 3.5 seem too basic at least for the players both men and women that I play with and against.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
See I disagree. Because it all comes down to what you mean by "pace". If you put a 4.5 on a court with someone that knocks the snot out of the ball, they would look like they are "beginning to handle pace" if at all. Most 4.5's I know meet the description. They hit powerful first serves, handle pace moderately well, have good footwork and consistency. The 4.0's can get flummoxed by superior pace but at moderate pace do everything well and are consistent about it.
I think what has been the big problem with NRTP and why they had to develop a computer system is that its hard to define "pace". The biggest difference as you climb up the rankings is how fast the ball is moving and how well you handle it. If there was a good way to describe pace and how someone handles it, I think you'd have a better rating system.
OnTheLine
Hall of Fame
YES .... you and I actually agree with each other. Too much depends on that definition and in the old ratings clinics would depend on who else was on your court. The 2 ratings clinics I went through, I was the only female on the court. And I think I got put at the 4.0 level the first time and 4.5 the second time because I could handle the men's pace ... but what if their pace wasn't really all that fast? It would LOOK like I am handling "pace" but I am really not.
I think anyone would get flummoxed (great word choice BTW) by "superior" pace. None of us would do well against the full pace of a tour player.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
After watching tour players at court level I heartily agree that their pace is on a different level from anything I've seen on club courts. I've played a few of the 5.0's at our club and I can "handle" the pace by standing further back (and artificially reducing the pace to something I'm used to) but then they can just kill me with angles. I would have to move closer to compete and at that point I have neither the timing nor speed of stroke to get the balls back reliably.
Traffic
Hall of Fame
I am very humbled by the video recording experience. What you think you play vs what it looks like on video is so different.
@pdizzy, I would like to share some thoughts with you. Take them with a grain of salt as they are things I try to keep in mind, they are not necessarily what I have mastered.
1) Try to maintain some sort of cadence with your footwork. Whether you need to cover 15' or 5', take the same number of steps. So even if it only needs 2-3 steps to align with the ball, taking 5-6 smaller steps helps you align with the ball even better. If you need to make a drastic change in your court position, then your strides just get longer.
2) Learn a spin serve. At our lower level, most opponents have a hard time handling spin. They can block or even return flat balls because they travel somewhat linear. But the spin adds a few more dimensions to the travel of the ball.
Traffic
Hall of Fame
I would get my a.s.s. handed to me by these guys!
I move in slow motion in comparison.Also, I want to point out they are playing outdoors, in shorts, in December. I want to cry.
pdizzy
Rookie
FiReFTW
Legend
The guy is seeking for advice to improve his tennis game, may I ask why people even focus on arguing about his 3.5 rating and debating and discussing it post after post? As far as im concerned this is off topic, the OP clearly wants feedback and wants to improve his game, so offer him advice or don't even post, its that simple.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
I'm the one serving first, in all black.
As you correctly guessed, we are all 3.0 except for the young guy in sweatpants who just got bumped up to 3.5.
This is what happens when a legit 3.5 schools 3.0 players.
NuBas
Legend
The guy is seeking for advice to improve his tennis game, may I ask why people even focus on arguing about his 3.5 rating and debating and discussing it post after post? As far as im concerned this is off topic, the OP clearly wants feedback and wants to improve his game, so offer him advice or don't even post, its that simple.
OP asked for any feedback and its important for OP to see how different people view his level cause that's only way for him to improve. We being critical on him cause we want him to improve and right now his game in that video is definitely not what he suggests. Some were harsher on him than others but this isn't first thread he posted asking for advice and to be honest, there wasn't much improvement if any at all. For you FireFTW you certainly have improved in every video but if you were the same, people would be hard on you too.
One thing OP can do to improve is definitely use some of @Curious hustling and bounciness.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
@pdizzy Here is my personal assessment. You may or may not find it helpful:
Pros:
Your serves have good pace and even more importantly, good placement. Serves are deep and close to the corners.
You get a lot of returns of serve back in play. In singles you just have to get them back somehow, somewhere.
You do not give away a lot of free, easy points like your opponent in the video. This makes a HUGE difference in an actual match.
Cons:
Your ball recognition is a little late as is your movement. Sometimes you get a late start and run thru the ball.
Your waiter's tray serves and relatively flat groundstrokes will be fine at 3.5 and may work at 4.0, but has limitations.
What is your goal? Is it to be the top dog among your 3.5/4.0 buddies? Or do you hope to get to a higher level, 4.5?
If your goal is 3.5/4.0, I would say work on footwork/movement and match strategy while adding some spin to your serves and strokes.
If you want to improve beyond that, you would most likely have to revamp your serves and groundstrokes to add spin and pace.
You would also have to vastly improve your movement and conditioning.
This will take a lot of time and work. You will probably lose more matches than you would normally.
However if your long term goal is to get to the very best level that you can achieve, you will have to go thru this painful process.
Pros:
Your serves have good pace and even more importantly, good placement. Serves are deep and close to the corners.
You get a lot of returns of serve back in play. In singles you just have to get them back somehow, somewhere.
You do not give away a lot of free, easy points like your opponent in the video. This makes a HUGE difference in an actual match.
Cons:
Your ball recognition is a little late as is your movement. Sometimes you get a late start and run thru the ball.
Your waiter's tray serves and relatively flat groundstrokes will be fine at 3.5 and may work at 4.0, but has limitations.
What is your goal? Is it to be the top dog among your 3.5/4.0 buddies? Or do you hope to get to a higher level, 4.5?
If your goal is 3.5/4.0, I would say work on footwork/movement and match strategy while adding some spin to your serves and strokes.
If you want to improve beyond that, you would most likely have to revamp your serves and groundstrokes to add spin and pace.
You would also have to vastly improve your movement and conditioning.
This will take a lot of time and work. You will probably lose more matches than you would normally.
However if your long term goal is to get to the very best level that you can achieve, you will have to go thru this painful process.
I think if you get lighter on your feet and cover ground quicker you will see improvement quicker. Maybe it's because your opponents so far have no pace so you don't have the urgency to move quicker.
Do you have group lessons in your area? It's good to just get a lot of repetition for a cheap price and you can focus on just a few things at a time.
I have 2 vids of match play from when I played 3.0 / 3.5 if you want to check them out.
Do you have group lessons in your area? It's good to just get a lot of repetition for a cheap price and you can focus on just a few things at a time.
I have 2 vids of match play from when I played 3.0 / 3.5 if you want to check them out.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
Traffic
Hall of Fame
You and I need to bend our knees more.
Turbo-87
G.O.A.T.
True. I think there are some peacocks at my club who would like to be wearing T-Shirts with their NTRP rating on them. It used to matter to me when I was a rookie but I soon figured out it doesn't mean that much to me personally. No disrespect to people who feel differently.
To the OP, not sure which person is the poster but I can say that in my Sunday doubles league that has 5 courts ranging from low 3.0 to high 4.0, you'd both be on court 4 always fighting to get to and stay on 3. That's as relative as I can get within my local scope in Iowa.
Just keep learning and having fun and your rating will take care of itself.
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pdizzy
Rookie
@IA-SteveB I agree with you on the ratings, I have lost to people claiming to be 3.0 and won against those who are 4.0. I appreciate the post and feel free to follow if you use the Youtubes!
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
-10 credibility pts
