My 5 point checklist to find opponent weakness....

I am going to make this a more deliberate process for the first game or two (and warm up)

For starters...

1) Drop shot. Or short ball in general. See what he does as he runs forward. Does this give him trouble?
If yes, start slicing and giving him balls he needs to move forward on. Lots of under 5.0 players mess this up and blast it long/net.
You need drill lessons to learn how to modulate when you're at the service line.

2) Test BH. Obviously.

3) Deep ball to FH. Does he back up? Does he slice back? (If so, anticipate moving forward)
If he can't handle deep FH, then I don't need to always go to his BH

4) Moonball. Can he hit it back? Spazz overhead from baseline? If yes, moonball him

5) Serve weakly. Does he spazz and lose the point? Does he bunt it back?
If a weak serve is not punished, I will take pace off the serve, and increase my serve %

#winningugly
 
Last edited:

Nellie

Hall of Fame
In warm ups, I will send a couple of lobs over the opponents backhand side. If he smoothly side-steps over and cranks an overhead, I know I am in for a long day.
 

BaddJordan

New User
"Does he spaz and lose the point" lol.

If me or my opponent lose the plot I'll throw in an underarm serve, the ultimate test
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
Gotta love any game plan that includes "serve weakly.". That's seems well thought out.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Gotta love any game plan that includes "serve weakly.". That's seems well thought out.

I don't think serve weakly is ever a smart thing. But switching up spin makes more sense. If I get a sense my opponent has more trouble with spin serves, then I give them more spins serves at a lower pace. Some returners love pace. I'm one of them. Give me a flat serve in the middle of the box and that's coming back at your feet most of the time. Throw spin at me, especially lefty spin, and I struggle for a few service games to adjust.

Of course painting the lines with pace is the ultimate answer but I certainly don't face many servers that are that good.
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
I don't think serve weakly is ever a smart thing. But switching up spin makes more sense. If I get a sense my opponent has more trouble with spin serves, then I give them more spins serves at a lower pace. Some returners love pace. I'm one of them. Give me a flat serve in the middle of the box and that's coming back at your feet most of the time. Throw spin at me, especially lefty spin, and I struggle for a few service games to adjust.

Of course painting the lines with pace is the ultimate answer but I certainly don't face many servers that are that good.
I was being massively sarcastic. Obviously if any part of your game plan is "serve weakly and see what they do".....you've completely lost the frigging plot.

Yes. Spin is good.
 
When you DF, you have a 0% chance of winning the point.
When you serve weakly, you have a > 0% chance of winning the point.
Basic Math.

Serving weakly can be good if you are DF'ing 20 times a set, and reduce it to 0.
Also, like Dart said, lots of players under 5.0 can't handle a sitter of a serve.
Many replies will be in the net or in the fence. Yet, they can hit normal serves with ease.
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
It's all subjective. You can only serve at a pace and aggressiveness that you've put in the work to earn. Obviously one should not be doubling all over the match. But I can't see serving weakly based on your individual game just to see what they do. Doing anything weakly on the court is not a strategy I'd ever be comfortable selling.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
5) Serve weakly. Does he spazz and lose the point? Does he bunt it back?
If a weak serve is not punished, I will take pace off the serve, and increase my serve %

#winningugly

Instead of "5) serve weakly", how about "5a) serve regularly and see how he deals with it" [especially given that you're a lefty with a serve that's above-level]. If he can't deal with it, continue. If he's tearing it apart, then go to plan B. Besides, this probing is to ultimately win the match but if your emphasis is on improvement, you shouldn't be concentrating so much on winning. "serving weakly" is not going to help you improve.
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
If the dropshot is considered a weapon, i really dont wanna play with you.

Ttps, if these things are working for you, just hit a patty cake to their backhand and run to net, you wont even need your racket 70% of the time

Lol, saw ****sburg in this thread giving tips. Maybe you can be as good as him someday!!! Lmao
 

Roland G

Hall of Fame
I am going to make this a more deliberate process for the first game or two (and warm up)

For starters...

1) Drop shot. Or short ball in general. See what he does as he runs forward. Does this give him trouble?
If yes, start slicing and giving him balls he needs to move forward on. Lots of under 5.0 players mess this up and blast it long/net.
You need drill lessons to learn how to modulate when you're at the service line.

2) Test BH. Obviously.

3) Deep ball to FH. Does he back up? Does he slice back? (If so, anticipate moving forward)
If he can't handle deep FH, then I don't need to always go to his BH

4) Moonball. Can he hit it back? Spazz overhead from baseline? If yes, moonball him

5) Serve weakly. Does he spazz and lose the point? Does he bunt it back?
If a weak serve is not punished, I will take pace off the serve, and increase my serve %

#winningugly
I love #5

I have a horrible kick serve which has zero pace but plenty of spin and the ball just moves away from my opponent as they run towards it. It's usually my 2nd serve but if it's causing trouble I'll throw in a few as 1st serves
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
When you DF, you have a 0% chance of winning the point.
When you serve weakly, you have a > 0% chance of winning the point.
Basic Math.


When you serve weakly, you have a 0% chance of improving your serve.
When you serve intelligently aggressively and DF, you have a > 0% chance of improving your serve.
Basic tennis improvement math.
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
If the dropshot is considered a weapon, i really dont wanna play with you.

Ttps, if these things are working for you, just hit a patty cake to their backhand and run to net, you wont even need your racket 70% of the time

Lol, saw ****sburg in this thread giving tips. Maybe you can be as good as him someday!!! Lmao
In one lesson I could give this guy better info than he's dropped 10K for. Fact.
 

Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
Actually if you play at a very low level (like I do) there are a lot of players who fk up returning a weak serve, even more so when they are expecting a stronger one. You'd be surprised how often this happens.

Maybe PittsburghDad plays at a higher level where this tactic is no longer a valid option.
 
LOL, PittsburghDad has never even picked up a tennis racket.

He is a helicopter parent with no identity beyond chauffeuring his kid to tennis matches (just look at his screen name)
while being too cheap to pay for lessons and coaching, mocking those who actually employ drill and coaching,
chasing some Quixotic fantasy of his kid becoming a tennis socialite.
This sad clown's stark reality will come crashing into his life in a few years.
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
Sure thing. Of course my kid didn't need 19K of lessons to figure out unit turn. We did that in about a week. But by all means carry on. BTW.

I'm not too cheap. I don't have to. She's that hard a worker and so am I.

Keep in mind. I'm doing this to spend time with my kid. Improve her self esteem. Have fun and build skills. And considering the results, at least college if she wants. What you spending this money for? You sure I'm Quixote in this equation?
 
P

PittsburghDad

Guest
It's time for you to refocus TTPS. Would Quixote charge a windmill weakly? Just to see if the windmill would mess up. I'm dissapointed.

Remember like two months ago when you asked the board to explain topspin to you. That was fun. Old times. Thanks for reminiscing with me!
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
I love #5

I have a horrible kick serve which has zero pace but plenty of spin and the ball just moves away from my opponent as they run towards it. It's usually my 2nd serve but if it's causing trouble I'll throw in a few as 1st serves
My only reliable serve is a weak kick-serve. It's got no pace, but a fair amount of spin and movement. I think it contrasts a lot of 3.5's (mostly) pace serve that comes in with a little slice action.
 

mcs1970

Hall of Fame
TTPS...didn't you make a thread a couple of weeks ago on how you're going all out on your serves...even 2nd serves....and mentioned that the dink serve phase of your career was over? You were calling out people dinking their serves in. So why are you talking about weak serves now to win games?

Your other tips are spot on...someone had posted something similar a while ago...make your opponent run side to side, forward and back...rinse and repeat. If he still beats you, shake his hand, forget about the match, go home and drink a beer. The best and most concise set of tips ever posted on this board.
 

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
Please be aware that too much variation can be a friend by throwing off your opponent, but can be an enemy by throwing off yourself.
So try and understand what kind of a tournament player you are before trying too many things in first couple of games.

Some players are rhythm players, who benefits better by getting into their groove early. Some are strategy players, who benefits better by not allowing the opponent to get into their groove.

I am going to make this a more deliberate process for the first game or two (and warm up)
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
TTPS...didn't you make a thread a couple of weeks ago on how you're going all out on your serves...even 2nd serves....and mentioned that the dink serve phase of your career was over? You were calling out people dinking their serves in. So why are you talking about weak serves now to win games?

Your other tips are spot on...someone had posted something similar a while ago...make your opponent run side to side, forward and back...rinse and repeat. If he still beats you, shake his hand, forget about the match, go home and drink a beer. The best and most concise set of tips ever posted on this board.
What I want to know is would the D1 coach tell him to serve weakly?
 
It all depends. I was more referring to serving 2nd serves, and not 1st serves.
D1 coach would say to serve, but DF'ing will not win you matches.
If my 2nd is not going in, then I may need to revert to dink spin vs. taking a full 2nd swing.
There is a reason people have vastly different strokes when casually rallying vs. playing a USTA match.

I start every match serving only 2nd serves.
This also gives me a chance to warm up my 2nd before going for a low % 1st.
If my 2nd is working well, then I will stick with it.
 

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
Wait... isn't it easier to just call everything out which lands on your side of court? The match is yours even if the opponent call you names and retires.
Just miss the lines and see if he calls them out. If he doesn't then keep hitting slightly out and yet win the points. My two cents.
 

samarai

Semi-Pro
a 3.5 talking about speeds of first serves, second serves, winners, drop shots, net play. I thought he was describing the play of federer and nadal. At 3.5 if u get a serve in its a plus.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
a 3.5 talking about speeds of first serves, second serves, winners, drop shots, net play. I thought he was describing the play of federer and nadal. At 3.5 if u get a serve in its a plus.
Didn't you read that he has THREE, let me repeat that, THREE 4.5 players trying to schedule time on his calendar? 4.5s don't clamor to hit with 3.5 players! ;)
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
I do not think OP has run into a player that has no weakness that you can find or use. Probe all you want; you won't find any relative weaknesses you can take advantage of. He should try playing USTA age group M35's where you can run into a lot of ex-D1 or low level pros. Even in M45 or older, you can still find some 5.0+ in doubles. What OP states would work against people with a glaring relative weakness at lower levels, e.g. BH vs FH. But it would be level dependent. Does not help to know if the FH is 6.0 and the BH is 5.5; or FH is 5.5 and BH is 4.5+. May work if FH is 4.5+ and BH is 4.5- until the opponent gets his FH working.
 

StringSnapper

Hall of Fame
I am going to make this a more deliberate process for the first game or two (and warm up)

For starters...

1) Drop shot. Or short ball in general. See what he does as he runs forward. Does this give him trouble?
If yes, start slicing and giving him balls he needs to move forward on. Lots of under 5.0 players mess this up and blast it long/net.
You need drill lessons to learn how to modulate when you're at the service line.

2) Test BH. Obviously.

3) Deep ball to FH. Does he back up? Does he slice back? (If so, anticipate moving forward)
If he can't handle deep FH, then I don't need to always go to his BH

4) Moonball. Can he hit it back? Spazz overhead from baseline? If yes, moonball him

5) Serve weakly. Does he spazz and lose the point? Does he bunt it back?
If a weak serve is not punished, I will take pace off the serve, and increase my serve %

#winningugly

This is like a laundry list of what every crafty old guy did to me when I started playing competitively.
 

rkelley

Hall of Fame
Great list.

One thing that I also tried (3.5 level) is a deep, high (but not a lob), low pace ball to the backhand, wait a beat, then come in behind it. A high, low pace ball reply (opponent is going for depth) I could volley for a winner, a lob I could hit an overhead for a winner, and driving this ball back with pace was not a tool that most players had in their toolbox.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Great list.

One thing that I also tried (3.5 level) is a deep, high (but not a lob), low pace ball to the backhand, wait a beat, then come in behind it. A high, low pace ball reply (opponent is going for depth) I could volley for a winner, a lob I could hit an overhead for a winner, and driving this ball back with pace was not a tool that most players had in their toolbox.

Yes! A fairly sophisticated play for a 3.5 but quite intelligent in my book. Most people think if they haven't started their approach immediately after hitting the ball it's "too late". "Balderdash," I say. The element of surprise can be worth a lot.

Even better if you can hit TS and wait for the ball to bounce up past your opponent's line of vision so he can no longer see you out of his peripheral. If you come in too soon, he may see you and adjust.
 

rkelley

Hall of Fame
Yes! A fairly sophisticated play for a 3.5 but quite intelligent in my book. Most people think if they haven't started their approach immediately after hitting the ball it's "too late". "Balderdash," I say. The element of surprise can be worth a lot.

Even better if you can hit TS and wait for the ball to bounce up past your opponent's line of vision so he can no longer see you out of his peripheral. If you come in too soon, he may see you and adjust.
One thing that makes this work is that the ball that you're hitting is a low pace ball, and the reply you expect from your opponent is also low pace. There's a lot of time available to move in. Like you said, while you wait at the baseline for a moment your opponent loses track of you in order to track the ball. Set-up for the volley around the service line if you expect a lob - it will make the overhead easier and since your opponent can't drive the ball very well (the fundamental weakness that's being exploited) you have plenty of time to close to the net for a volley if you need to.

Big topspin would help this play, but back in the day when I did this I couldn't hit huge topspin. This was 3.5 in the 1980's so not really necessary anyway.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
In warm ups, I will send a couple of lobs over the opponents backhand side. If he smoothly side-steps over and cranks an overhead, I know I am in for a long day.
I don't warm up seriously. I horse around, primarily to get my muscles stretched.
 
Top