My "bold/unpopular" opinion: Prime Federer played a better version of Rafa than Prime Djokovic did

[DSH]

2011 Rafa was a really beatable version of Rafa at Wimb. Don't think Fed would have too much trouble.


You do realize 2015 was the worst ever version of Nadal, right? And 2014/2016 weren't spectacular versions of him either. Fed dealt with versions of Nadal better than those.


I guess that invalidates Novak's 2011 Rome win since Nadal had played the entire clay season before the Rome final.


So has Fed.

Nadal's 2011 version at Wimbledon is clearly better than his 2006 version.

 

[mike danny]

Nadal's 2011 version at Wimbledon is clearly better than his 2006 version.

Throughout the entire tournament, yes.

In the final itself, not really.

 

[Nole_King]

Here's my unpopular tennis opinion: Federer in his prime played a better version of Rafa than Djokovic did in his, despite the much wider age gap.

Here are some reasons:

- When Fed was at his best on clay between 2005-09, that coincided with Rafa's best years on clay where he won 81 matches in a row (Djoker's clay prime were during some of Rafa's not so great years on clay by his hefty standards)

- 2007/08 were Rafa's two best years on grass (alongside 2010), and better than any version of Rafa at Wimby post-2011 (only '18 is in the same stratosphere)

- 2009 AO Rafa was the best he ever played in the land down under and that of course, came at the expense of Fed

- Federer in his prime never got to play 2014-2016 Nadal (on and off clay) who Djokovic scored a handful of wins off of

- Rafa was a top 2 player in 5/6 prime Fed years; Rafa was top 2 for only 2/6 prime Djoker years

- Only place Djokovic has played a tougher version of Rafa is the USO and part of that is because Fed never played the Spaniard there

Since we're in quarantine, let's start what will surely be a long and heated discussion, grab the popcorn folks!

1. True
2. Post 2011 means 2011 is included in his best years on grass and Novak gave a decent beating to Nadal at Wimbledon.
3. True
4. Djokovic also had many wins over Nadal in 2011 and that includes clay.
5. One of the reasons of Nadal dropping below is Novak. Earlier it was Fedal contesting for top 2 and from 2011 onwards there were 3 competing for top 2. So it is bound to happen that one of Nadal and Federer go below top 2.
6. True.

 

[maratha_warrior]

So did Djoker.

Difference is Fed played Rafa more times and neither of those times was Rafa at 2019 level.

Djoker is AO GOAT .
No version of Fedal are beating him at AO if Djoker is fit and in form .

And Fedovic can't beat Nadal at RG regardless of form .
same way , Nadalovic mi8 find it extremely difficult or impossible to beat Roger at WB 2005-07 .

 

[mike danny]

Djoker is AO GOAT .
No version of Fedal are beating him at AO if Djoker is fit and in form .

And Fedovic can't beat Nadal at RG regardless for from .
same way , Nadalovic mi8 find it extremely difficult or impossible to beat Roger at WB 2005-07 .

That's fair.

I'm just saying that both guys dealt with a peak Nadal once at the AO, but Federer played 3 more matches against him.

In their primes, they both dealt once with a peak Nadal. Djokovic won his, Fed didn't.

 

[maratha_warrior]

That's fair.

I'm just saying that both guys dealt with a peak Nadal once at the AO, but Federer played 3 more matches against him.

Young Rafa always had matchup advantage against Fed , just like Novak had age advantage against Fed .

Fed is fast court GOAT . Rafa would have found it impossible to beat Fed at USO 2004- 08 fast version .

Infact Fed was aged 30 32 35 in his last 3 AO matches versus Rafa . he won one . It's a good achievement . Just my opinion .

 

[mike danny]

Young Rafa always had matchup advantage against Fed , just like Novak had age advantage against Fed .

Fed is fast court GOAT . Rafa would have found it impossible to beat Fed at USO 2004- 08 fast version .

Infact Fed was aged 30 32 35 in his last 3 AO matches versus Rafa . he won one . It's a good achievement . Just my opinion .

Of course.

Not as good as actually beating Rafa in 2009, but I'll take what I can get

 

[RS]

Young Rafa always had matchup advantage against Fed , just like Novak had age advantage against Fed .

Fed is fast court GOAT . Rafa would have found it impossible to beat Fed at USO 2004- 08 fast version .

Infact Fed was aged 30 32 35 in his last 3 AO matches versus Rafa . he won one . It's a good achievement . Just my opinion .

Fed would have had chance of beating Djokovic at any slam and vise versa.
04-08 Fed was not impossible to beat at the USO he had lots of tough matches in that timeframe.

 

[maratha_warrior]

Fed would have had chance of beating Djokovic at any slam and vise versa.
04-08 Fed was not impossible to beat at the USO he had lots of tough matches in that timeframe.

US 2004 -08 was very fast , and Djokodal are not that great on fast courts .

I don't think any Djokodal version would have beaten Fed during US 2004-08 version .
Djokovic didn't even win single set in 3 matches versus Fed .

 

[NoleFam]

Djokovic played Nadal 8 times in the same timespan and has also had to play 2012 Nadal who was a buzzsaw on clay.

So 11 matches for both Federer and Djokovic right there.

I do actually think 2012 Nadal >> 2006 Nadal on the mud and peak Djokovic would have performed slightly better (pushed Nadal a bit further) than Federer did in 2006.


Djokovic played Nadal at USO 10, 11 and 13, each time on the back of a 5 set semi.


Only match where you could say Federer had it a bit tougher but I don't think 2012 is that far behind and Djokovic also played Nadal at Wimbledon 2011 where Nadal was serving at around 80 percent in the first set.


Do you really think Federer would beat Nadal at Rome in 2014/2016 and MC in 2015?

Federer is 0-14 against Nadal at slow plexi AO, MC, Rome and FO combined.

Djokovic's wins against Nadal on clay in 2011 are more impressive wins than anything Federer has done on clay.

Only two wins Federer has against Nadal on clay is on lower bouncing surfaces after Nadal played the entire clay season before the Hamburg final (still needed three sets to win) and a 4 hour marathon SF against Djokovic in Madrid.


Djokovic has been playing against Nadal all the way since 2005.


0-0 at USO; also, see above points.

@125downthemiddle @NoleFam @Hitman

You pretty much covered it and nothing left for me to say really. I never understood the view that Djokovic didn't play as good of a version as Nadal. He's been playing him since 2006 and played him many times on clay from 2006-2009.

 

[RS]

US 2004 -08 was very fast , and Djokodal are not that great on fast courts .

I don't think any Djokodal version would have beaten Fed during US 2004-08 version .
Djokovic didn't even win single set in 3 matches versus Fed .

Federer had difficulty with Agassi in 04 and Andreev 08 in very close 5 setters were he nearly lost. Djokovic got a set in 08 and gave Fed a good match in 07 and 09. Hewitt and Kiefer and Santoro and even Blake gave Fed good matches then.

Fine to think Federer wins but impossible is a strong word. Djokovic and Nadal (mainly Djokovic are very good on faster courts even if not as good as Federer.

 

[NoleFam]

US 2004 -08 was very fast , and Djokodal are not that great on fast courts .

I don't think any Djokodal version would have beaten Fed during US 2004-08 version .
Djokovic didn't even win single set in 3 matches versus Fed .

He won a set in 2008.

 

[maratha_warrior]

He won a set in 2008.

my bad . i thought It was a straight setter .

 

[NoleFam]

my bad . i thought It was a straight setter .

They had some real close sets in 2007, 2008 and 2009.

 

[maratha_warrior]

Federer had difficulty with Agassi in 04 and Andreev 08 in very close 5 setters were he nearly lost. Djokovic got a set in 08 and gave Fed a good match in 07 and 09. Hewitt and Kiefer and Santoro and even Blake gave Fed good matches then.

Fine to think Federer wins but impossible is a strong word. Djokovic and Nadal (mainly Djokovic are very good on faster courts even if not as good as Federer.

I agree , but I just have this opinion that Djokodal would find it very dificult to beat Fed on Fast USO .

Ofcourse Fed had few tough matches at USO ,but Djoko had too .

At AO ,
Murray was close to beat Novak in 2012
Nadal was close in 2012
Wawrinka was close in 2013 and 15 , and beat Novak in 2014 .
Simon took Novak to 5 sets in 2016 .

 

[RS]

I agree , but I just have this opinion that Djokodal would find it very dificult to beat Fed on Fast USO .

Ofcourse Fed had few tough matches at USO ,but Djoko had too .

At AO ,
Murray was close to beat Novak in 2012
Nadal was close in 2012
Wawrinka was close in 2013 and 15 , and beat Novak in 2014 .
Simon tool Novak to 5 sets in 2016 .

I agree Djok has struggled but this was about Fed.

I think Federer is the favourite vs Djokovic at the USO but he would really really struggle vs Nadal but whatever.

 

[mike danny]

US 2004 -08 was very fast , and Djokodal are not that great on fast courts .

I don't think any Djokodal version would have beaten Fed during US 2004-08 version .
Djokovic didn't even win single set in 3 matches versus Fed .

He actually did. He won a set in 2008.

But Djokovic wasn't in his prime in those years and Fed had the age advantage back then.

 

[RF-18]

Who cares? Djokovic owned both of them

 

[maratha_warrior]

I agree Djok has struggled but this was about Fed.

I think Federer is the favourite vs Djokovic at the USO but he would really really struggle vs Nadal but whatever.

wow . Please explain me how Fed would have struggled alot against Nadal on Fast hardcourts ? especially US Open 2004-08 .

During the same period , Djokovic Lost 9 sets and won only 1 against Fed .And Rafa lost to non great players during same period .
How would Rafa make it difficult for Fed , when Novak was not able to make it dificult ??

 

[Rago]

Djoker is AO GOAT .
No version of Fedal are beating him at AO if Djoker is fit and in form .

And Fedovic can't beat Nadal at RG regardless for from .
same way , Nadalovic mi8 find it extremely difficult or impossible to beat Roger at WB 2005-07 .

Well, Federer won that 2007 Final by the skin of his teeth. Djokovic from 2015 would pose quite a few problems with his imprived serve.

2003-06; possibly but Federer's return game on grass wasn't at the same level after that.

 

[mike danny]

Well, Federer won that 2007 Final by the skin of his teeth. Djokovic from 2015 would pose quite a few problems with his imprived serve.

2003-06; possibly but Federer's return game on grass wasn't at the same level after that.

Nadal posed match-up issues that Djokovic wouldn't.

 

[RS]

wow . Please explain me how Fed would have struggled alot against Nadal on Fast hardcourts ? especially US Open 2004-08 .

During the same period , Djokovic Lost 9 sets and won only 1 against Fed .And Rafa lost to non great players during same period .
How would Rafa make it difficult for Fed , when Novak was not able to make it dificult ??

I gave you examples of oppenents Fed struggled to in 04-08........

I was talking peak for peak Rafa was not at peak at USO from 04-08 of course back then Fed is the heavy favourite.

 

[mike danny]

I gave you examples of oppenents Fed struggled to in 04-08........

I was talking peak for peak Rafa was not at peak at USO from 04-08 of course back then Fed is the heavy favourite.

Well, Fed and Rafa have only once played on a fast HC in a slam, so not much data to get from it.

 

[CYGS]

Bold because it ain't true /thread

 

[RS]

Well, Fed and Rafa have only once played on a fast HC in a slam, so not much data to get from it.

Fed wouldn’t be impossible I know that was the premise. They have played on grass which is not far away from a fast HC.

 

[mike danny]

Fed wouldn’t be impossible I know that was the premise. They have played on grass which is not far away from a fast HC.

That depends.

AO 2017 seemed faster than Wimb.

 

[RS]

That depends.

AO 2017 seemed faster than Wimb.

Still comparable attacking favoured surfaces. Grass has a lower bounce which should help Fed more vs Nadal so it brings it near even.

 

[Born_to_slice]

Not bold, not unpopular, not true.

 

[metsman]

08 in 02 would probably have won that edition. I'd certainly give Djokovic a fighting chance in 09/03 - saying he's stopped by a random loss in the R3 is like saying Federer loses 04/10 because a Kuerten-equivalent plays him in R3. 09 Djokovic reached the semis of all 3 clay masters and the final of 2 of them, losing only to Nadal all 3 times. I would definitely give Djokovic a great chance in 04.

I wouldn't discount him completely in 07/01 either - he didn't really play anyone of note, but a few lucky matches could see him winning there. Not to mention Djokovic in 2011 was also fairly strong. He'd also pick up 09 as the Federer stand-in (2015 Djokovic wasn't really going to lose to anyone but Stan, unfortunately).

Either way, there's 3 editions where I'd have tipped him to win, with another 2 where he has a decent chance at it. Instead we get this reality for him.

Federer on the other hand, would be in his clay heyday (05-11) in 11-18. He'd win 09/15 and 10/16 fairly straightforwardly. I doubt he takes 2017, though - Nadal won that convincingly. 11 and 12 I also doubt. Maybe he takes 13 - Nadal was choking in the SF with Djokovic. 08/14 maybe, but I'm not betting on it. Going through any version of Nadal would've been a tough ask, plus he'd need to go through 15 Wawrinka and a late-stage Djoker.

So that's what, 2-3 editions for Federer?

For me, it's a plain proposition. Djokovic was the better player on clay early in his career. Even at 18 he was meeting Nadal at RG, made his first SF at 19. It took Roger until 23 years old to even see a SF at Roland Garros. By 21, Djokovic was the 2nd best clay courter on the planet trailing only Nadal. Federer couldn't necessarily claim that same thing until he was 24 (Coria and Davydenko put up similar results in 05). Obviously Federer had it worse in his prime, but Djokovic was dealing with Nadal from day one to day [whatever day it is now]. Federer didn't.

Djokovic was the better player early in his career on clay, but he lost to Kohly in 09 and Melzer in 10, very standard opponents, not a floater like Guga, so no, projecting him to navigate all earlier rounds and then beat someone like Ferrero in 03 is just way too far. In 04, there were plenty of quality clay court players in the QF stage: Nalbandian, Kuerten, Coria, Gaudio, Moya. Even Henman was playing pretty well. Knowing 2010 Djokovic he might have mugged even harder than Coria did if he even made it that far. Losing to washed up but still somewhat potent Kuerten is better that losing to Kohly/Melzer, but I still certainly wouldn't project 2004 Fed to any RG glory in most if not all years really. 07 Djokovic beating Kuerten in 01, not to mention Ferrero/Corretja who were also pretty strong in that tournament? 0 chance, come on now.

 

[King No1e]

2009 wasn't prime Fed?

2009 and mayyyybe 2012 were Prime Fed. 2014 and 2017 were not, so it doesn't count as "Prime Fed having it worse than Prime Djoker"
Nadal was a non-factor at HC Slams until USO08/AO09. He was a factor on HC throughout Djoker's prime until late 2014.

 

[metsman]

Federer had difficulty with Agassi in 04 and Andreev 08 in very close 5 setters were he nearly lost. Djokovic got a set in 08 and gave Fed a good match in 07 and 09. Hewitt and Kiefer and Santoro and even Blake gave Fed good matches then.

Fine to think Federer wins but impossible is a strong word. Djokovic and Nadal (mainly Djokovic are very good on faster courts even if not as good as Federer.

Santoro? Am I forgetting something? Or is making it close for 1 set while messing around a "good match, overrated peak Fed struggling again, the Fraud fans told me this guy was handing out double breaks every set!!". Oh and as always, don't forget Baghdatis!

Sure if we apply this same logic Djokovic struggled even harder vs Dolgopolov and Tipsy in 11. Bringing up some random struggles for Fed and then talking about Djokovic (especially at the USO) is just really a peak example of throwing stones in a glass house. You see it a lot to somehow temper Federer's level in those years and it's hilarious every time. Yeah the guy didn't win 5 straight USO titles winning every single set, some real breaking news. How many straight years has Djokovic managed to go at the USO without throwing in a massive stinker (or more?). That's right, 1.

 

[ForehandCross]

Not bold, not unpopular, not true.

Bold because it ain't true /thread

Now now , let's not be this decisive.

Federer's prime in general consensus 2003-12 (10 years)

I will take several variations of Djokovic's prime as it usually is a bit too ambiguous

1. 2008-16(9 years) 2. 2011-16 (6years)




Nadal from 2005-12 on Clay(Marking from his first slam win):

231-10 (96%) ,2nd serve won(57.4%) ,hld%(85.9) DR (1.43)



Nadal from 2008-16 on Clay :

232-21(92%), 2nd serve won (56.1) Hold%(85.1) , DR (1.39)

Nadal from 2011-16 on Clay

162- 18 (90%) , 2nd serve won(55.5) ,Hold%(84.4), DR (1.38)


Now 2005-12 in terms of stat is clearly better.

And it's so obvious on grass that I am not gonna waste my time with it.

It's really not *that* decisive.


What's decisive is the idea that Djokovic faced a much better Nadal on HC.

 

[RS]

Santoro? Am I forgetting something? Or is making it close for 1 set while messing around a "good match, overrated peak Fed struggling again, haha"

Sure if we apply this same logic Djokovic struggled vs Dolgopolov and Tipsy in 11. Bringing up some random struggles for Fed and then talking about Djokovic (especially at the USO) is just really a peak example of throwing stones in a glass house. You see it a lot to somehow temper Federer's level in those years and it's hilarious every time. Yeah the guy didn't win 5 straight USO titles winning every single set, some real breaking news. How many years has Djokovic managed to go at the USO without throwing in a massive stinker (or more?). That's right, 1.

Santoro was a mistake thought he got to a tight 4 setter error from me sorry. And i never said Djokovic was better at the USO player and he had close matches but he said it would be impossible for Djokovic to win.

 

[metsman]

Santoro was a mistake though he got to a tight 4 setter error from me sorry. And i never said Djokovic was better at the USO player and he had close matches but he said it would be impossible for Djokovic to win.

It seemed like he said he "didn't think Djokovic would win" not that it's impossible for Djokovic to win. Which is what I think too. The matches would be competitive but I'd firmly favor Fed.

 

[RS]

It seemed like he said he "didn't think Djokovic would win" not that it's impossible for Djokovic to win. Which is what I think too. The matches would be competitive but I'd firmly favor Fed.

Obviously it is no shock you would firm favour Fed. He also said he didnt think Nadal and Djokovic would trouble 04-08 Fed as well later in the text which was why i responded. Nothing to do with Djokovic being better at all.

 

[NoleFam]

Now now , let's not be this decisive.

Federer's prime in general consensus 2003-12 (10 years)

I will take several variations of Djokovic's prime as it usually is a bit too ambiguous

1. 2008-16(9 years) 2. 2011-16 (6years)




Nadal from 2005-12 on Clay(Marking from his first slam win):

231-10 (96%) ,2nd serve won(57.4%) ,hld%(85.9) DR (1.43)



Nadal from 2008-16 on Clay :

232-21(92%), 2nd serve won (56.1) Hold%(85.1) , DR (1.39)

Nadal from 2011-16 on Clay

162- 18 (90%) , 2nd serve won(55.5) ,Hold%(84.4), DR (1.38)


Now 2005-12 in terms of stat is clearly better.

And it's so obvious on grass that I am not gonna waste my time with it.

It's really not *that* decisive.


What's decisive is the idea that Djokovic faced a much better Nadal on HC.

I agree that Nadal was better in 2005-2010 on clay as far as a 6 year timeframe because it doesn't include years like 2015 and 2016, which brings his level down. With that said, Djokovic's overlap with Nadal was more intense though, except on grass, mainly because they are closer in age.

2005-2010
Federer/Nadal matches
hardcourt - 6 matches (1 Slam)
clay - 12 matches (4 Slams)
grass - 3 matches (all Slam matches)

Nadal/Djokovic matches
hardcourt - 12 matches (1 Slam)
clay - 9 matches (3 Slams)
grass - 2 matches (1 Slam)


2011-2016
Federer/Nadal matches
hardcourt - 9 matches (2 slams)
clay - 3 matches (1 Slam)
grass - 0 matches

Nadal/Djokovic matches
hardcourt - 13 matches (3 Slams)
clay - 12 matches (4 Slams)
grass - 1 match (Slam match)


Even in 2005-2010 he met Nadal in Slams 5 times, 3 times at RG. He also only met Nadal one time in a Slam in 2015 and 2016, compared to Nadal playing him 3 times in 2006-2007, so he could have even turned that head to head even more had they played 3 matches in those years. So looking at this, it's hard to say prime Federer played a better Nadal when prime Djokovic was playing the same Nadal way before he hit his peak.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

New York, help me this time.

 

[Mivic]

The fact that peak Federer wasn’t able to push Nadal to 5 in either 05 or 06 at the French when Nadal hadn’t established his dominance there yet isn’t a great look imo.

 

[ForehandCross]

I agree that Nadal was better in 2005-2010 on clay as far as a 6 year timeframe because it doesn't include years like 2015 and 2016, which brings his level down. With that said, Djokovic's overlap with Nadal was more intense though, except on grass, mainly because they are closer in age.

2005-2010
Federer/Nadal matches
hardcourt - 6 matches (1 Slam)
clay - 12 matches (4 Slams)
grass - 3 matches (all Slam matches)

Nadal/Djokovic matches
hardcourt - 12 matches (1 Slam)
clay - 9 matches (3 Slams)
grass - 2 matches (1 Slam)


2011-2016
Federer/Nadal matches
hardcourt - 9 matches (2 slams)
clay - 3 matches (1 Slam)
grass - 0 matches

Nadal/Djokovic matches
hardcourt - 13 matches (3 Slams)
clay - 12 matches (4 Slams)
grass - 1 match (Slam match)


Even in 2005-2010 he met Nadal in Slams 5 times, 3 times at RG. He also only met Nadal one time in a Slam in 2015 and 2016, compared to Nadal playing him 3 times in 2006-2007, so he could have even turned that head to head even more had they played 3 matches in those years. So looking at this, it's hard to say prime Federer played a better Nadal when prime Djokovic was playing the same Nadal way before he hit his peak.

Of course, Djokovic faced Nadal in both periods. I just wanted to point out that it was not as clear cut as they made it out to be.

The argument falls completely apart when we move out of arbitrary "prime period". My post was limited to that.

And even on Grass Djokovic met 2007,2011,2018. Each of them were very good years from Nadal. And Djokovic faced all the versions of Nadal that Federer faced at RG except 2005 and 2011, and he played 2012,2013,2014 each good to Great years.

On HC it is not even debatable. I was just limiting myself to thread title.

Djokovic throughout his career had tougher competition from Nadal, maybe in prime period it was comparatively similar.

 

[NoleFam]

Of course, Djokovic faced Nadal in both periods. I just wanted to point out that it was not as clear cut as they made it out to be.

The argument falls completely apart when we move out of arbitrary "prime period". My post was limited to that.

And even on Grass Djokovic met 2007,2011,2018. Each of them were very good years from Nadal. And Djokovic faced all the versions of Nadal that Federer faced at RG except 2005 and 2011, and he played 2012,2013,2014 each good to Great years.

On HC it is not even debatable. I was just limiting myself to thread title.

Djokovic throughout his career had tougher competition from Nadal, maybe in prime period it was comparatively similar.

Well I agree with pretty much all of this.

 

[CYGS]

Now now , let's not be this decisive.

Federer's prime in general consensus 2003-12 (10 years)

I will take several variations of Djokovic's prime as it usually is a bit too ambiguous

1. 2008-16(9 years) 2. 2011-16 (6years)




Nadal from 2005-12 on Clay(Marking from his first slam win):

231-10 (96%) ,2nd serve won(57.4%) ,hld%(85.9) DR (1.43)



Nadal from 2008-16 on Clay :

232-21(92%), 2nd serve won (56.1) Hold%(85.1) , DR (1.39)

Nadal from 2011-16 on Clay

162- 18 (90%) , 2nd serve won(55.5) ,Hold%(84.4), DR (1.38)


Now 2005-12 in terms of stat is clearly better.

And it's so obvious on grass that I am not gonna waste my time with it.

It's really not *that* decisive.


What's decisive is the idea that Djokovic faced a much better Nadal on HC.

BOORRRINGG.

 

[beltsman]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily fromNarodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick and Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existencial catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools... how I pity them. And yes by the way, I DO have a Rick and Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

I heckin love SCIENCE!!!!

 

[RS]

Djokovic
Great or better versions of Nadal faced in slams-AO 12 and RG06/RG07/RG08/RG 12/RG13/RG 14 and Wim 07/18 and USO 10/13
Good versions Wim 11/USO 11
Weaker versions RG 15/AO 19


Federer
Great or better versions AO 09/AO 12/AO14 and RG 05/RG 06/RG07/RG08/RG11/RG 19 and Wim 07/08
Good versions Wim 06/AO17/Wim19
Weaker versions none

It is somewhat close at slams but Fed never faced a version of Nadal like RG 15 and AO 19 which tips it in his favour in slams.

 

[Breakpointerer]

Djokovic
Great versions of Nadal faced in slams-AO 12 and RG06/RG07/RG08/RG 12/RG13/RG 14 and Wim 07/18 and USO 10/13
Good versions Wim 11/USO 11
Weaker versions RG 15/AO 19


Federer
Great versions AO 09/AO 12/AO14 and RG 05/RG 06/RG07/RG08/RG11/RG 19 and Wim 07/08
Good versions Wim 06/AO17/AO 19
Weaker versions none

It is somewhat close at slams but Fed never faced a version of Nadal like RG 15 and AO 19 which tips it in his favour in slams.

Federer didn't face Nadal at AO19

 

[RS]

Federer didn't face Nadal at AO19

Sorry correction Wim 19.

 

[Lew II]

Slams Nadal either won the title or lost to Federer until 2009 --> 8

Slams Nadal either won the title or lost to Djokovic since 2011 --> 16

 

[mike danny]

The fact that peak Federer wasn’t able to push Nadal to 5 in either 05 or 06 at the French when Nadal hadn’t established his dominance there yet isn’t a great look imo.

There's no guarantee Djokovic would.

 

[RaulRamirez]

Fed of 2005-6 was a monster. I do see him being very capable of beating 2015 rafa on clay. I always have been of the opinion that despite Rafa and Novak being closer in age, their peaks did not overlap as supposed. Fed often faced beast Rafa on clay. Novak too faced some of the finest of Rafa on clay but I feel it was Fed who had it tougher with Rafa on clay.

I gently disagree. Although I think that their level is very close, I would give Novak an overall edge on clay - and at RG - over Roger. That said, Roger did win their important showdown in 2011.

 

[StrongRule]

Djokovic
Great versions of Nadal faced in slams-AO 12 and RG06/RG07/RG08/RG 12/RG13/RG 14 and Wim 07/18 and USO 10/13
Good versions Wim 11/USO 11
Weaker versions RG 15/AO 19


Federer
Great versions AO 09/AO 12/AO14 and RG 05/RG 06/RG07/RG08/RG11/RG 19 and Wim 07/08
Good versions Wim 06/AO17/Wim19
Weaker versions none

It is somewhat close at slams but Fed never faced a version of Nadal like RG 15 and AO 19 which tips it in his favour in slams.

RG 2014 is a great version of Nadal...

 

[RS]

RG 2014 is a great version of Nadal...

Yeah it was in reality.