My brother and I playing some points. Guess our level

MRG13

New User
New Video!


I would give you some context about us as tennis players but I want to see what everyone thinks.

Any tips or things we should look out for in our games would be really appreciated!


***Edited to include longer video

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***Edited again to include a much better video
 
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Dartagnan64

Legend
3.0-3.5. First few points looked terrible but then you guys got into more rhythm. Looks like you have worked a little too much on having strokes that look like pros but not on footwork that looks like pros. Footwork is still the biggest key in this sport. Learn it while you are young.
 

MRG13

New User
3.0-3.5. First few points looked terrible but then you guys got into more rhythm. Looks like you have worked a little too much on having strokes that look like pros but not on footwork that looks like pros. Footwork is still the biggest key in this sport. Learn it while you are young.
We had been playing for a while so these points were definitely played very loose and very low intensity. You’re definitely right about trying too hard to copy pro’s strokes though. I was late to tennis and pretty much taught myself and at the time I thought just trying to look like the pros was the best way to go
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
3.25.

You guys are horsing around so not taking things seriously.

You can keep the ball in play so better than 3.0 but you're foot-faulting on your serves and it would appear that you're wasting motion and energy on your serve.

A 3.5 player typically has some knowledge in doing things to annoy the other player to win more points by the other person making more errors. That is they will press or try to hit shots that annoy the other player. I didn't see any evidence of that here.

Lots of potential though.
 

MRG13

New User
3.25.

You guys are horsing around so not taking things seriously.

You can keep the ball in play so better than 3.0 but you're foot-faulting on your serves and it would appear that you're wasting motion and energy on your serve.

A 3.5 player typically has some knowledge in doing things to annoy the other player to win more points by the other person making more errors. That is they will press or try to hit shots that annoy the other player. I didn't see any evidence of that here.

Lots of potential though.
Yeah, not a serious day of tennis at all, which is why I chose to exclude any context about us. It was like 95 degrees out so neither of us were putting in that much effort. I might record us playing on a day where we are more focused haha I’d like to think we are both upwards of 3.5 when playing seriously.
 
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movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, not a serious day of tennis at all, which is why I chose to exclude any context about us. It was like 95 degrees out so neither of us was putting in that much effort. I might record us playing on a day where we are more focused haha I’d like to think we are both upwards of 3.5 when playing seriously.
It's hard to make a determination outside of a match as NTRP is about match play. Someone can have the worst strokes or be out of shape but still win matches by a variety of means.
 

rrortiz5

Rookie
Yeah, not a serious day of tennis at all, which is why I chose to exclude any context about us. It was like 95 degrees out so neither of us were putting in that much effort. I might record us playing on a day where we are more focused haha I’d like to think we are both upwards of 3.5 when playing seriously.
You know I can see 3.5 a lot more than I see 3.0. God forbid you guys look out of shape and then we'd be seeing responses of 2.5. I think something to consider is that to win a match you have to win 2 full sets and some people on this forum can't play an entire set without folding over at the waist. Y'all would easily play 3.5's in my book as you'd probably outlast your opponents.
 

tennishabit

Hall of Fame
ntrp etctec rating systems are only based on the win/lose, right:?))).............'winning ugly'>'losing beautifully', like hsieh ranked wta 31..........absolutely hilarious to watch a rec-looklike sht ugly-all-round beat the sht out of fancy/pro/pretty all round snowwhite.........mamohmam. just wonder if any1 can make it to the top100 atp-er in dat sht style..............lolololololol gr8 fun 2 watch:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D..............................
 

tennishabit

Hall of Fame
a lot of vid here quite 'official' showing tensed up muscles/arms etcetc which might cause te/ge/etcetc n might be bit better off if get some1 else shoot some casual/normal w/o notifying any1, might b much real n relaxed..........also mostlikely playing better:?))):love::love::love::love::love::love:.....................
 
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movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, not a serious day of tennis at all, which is why I chose to exclude any context about us. It was like 95 degrees out so neither of us were putting in that much effort. I might record us playing on a day where we are more focused haha I’d like to think we are both upwards of 3.5 when playing seriously.
I'd rather play a shorter session where I'm focused on doing the right thing than a longer session horsing around. Good training sessions or practice matches help to build habits. If you're moving your feet, watching the ball, etc., in training and practice matches, then you're more likely to do that in real matches. My last video was a 45 minute practice session. I was obviously getting pretty tired at that point and stopped the session but I put in the best effort that I could under the circumstances for that practice session.
 

MRG13

New User
Is this a continous play or are bad serves, points cut out?
I basically cut the set in half because I didn’t feel like editing all of it. Then took out missed serves and points that ended in ue or just didnt seem necessary to be in the video
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Haha that does seem to be the case
I know a guy that played 4.0 Tournaments with a 120+ MPH serve. He's 6'5", and works construction. I saw him beat a 5.0 player once.

I think that the term is sandbagging.
 

MRG13

New User
I'd rather play a shorter session where I'm focused on doing the right thing than a longer session horsing around. Good training sessions or practice matches help to build habits. If you're moving your feet, watching the ball, etc., in training and practice matches, then you're more likely to do that in real matches. My last video was a 45 minute practice session. I was obviously getting pretty tired at that point and stopped the session but I put in the best effort that I could under the circumstances for that practice session.
We definitely don’t take every time out on court that seriously. Sometimes we just go out there to mess around and have fun. I’ll probably post a much more serious, match-like session sometime soon
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
We definitely don’t take every time out on court that seriously. Sometimes we just go out there to mess around and have fun. I’ll probably post a much more serious, match-like session sometime soon
It doesn't have to be match-like serious; but focused is good. Perhaps you're young enough so that you have a lot of free time but time gets a lot shorter as an adult so you have to prioritize what you do and make as much as you can with what you're doing. Court time is expensive here for a lot of folks and may involve travel time too so you want to make the most of the time if you're spending $25 to $100 for an hour of court time.
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
I would give you some context about us as tennis players but I want to see what everyone thinks.

Any tips or things we should look out for in our games would be really appreciated!


***Edited to include longer video
Why are you guys hitting the ball so short ? Aim further out. I'd say 3.0-3.5. Nice topspin serve consistent strokes but not enough pace or depth.
 

MRG13

New User
Why are you guys hitting the ball so short ? Aim further out. I'd say 3.0-3.5. Nice topspin serve consistent strokes but not enough pace or depth.
Some of the limited pace and depth comes from how tired we were at the time. I’ll be posting another video shortly where we play a little better. Though tbh, I don’t think either of us are near a 3.0
 
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pencilcheck

Semi-Pro
Not sure what matches you both have been playing, but I can find some strong 3.5s in CA that could beat you both easily.

Cheers
 
C

Chadalina

Guest
Its hard to tell, you are very consistent and have some offense. Volleys need work (your bro too) and serve needs more power.

Do you have trouble against people with bigger serves? Return looks very solid

2nd video was good tennis.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
3:23 on the second video: clear the balls from the tennis court unless they are at the net.

3.0 This player is consistent when hitting medium pace shots, but is not comfortable with all strokes and lacks control when trying for directional intent, depth, or power.
3.5 This player has achieved improved stroke dependability and direction on moderate pace shots, but still lacks depth and variety. This player exhibits more aggressive net play, has improved court coverage and is developing teamwork in doubles.

The variety is there but consistent depth isn't. I've seen 3.5s, particularly those that play a lot of doubles, with better volleying skills. Both of you hit the volley but that the other is getting one, two or three more tries means that you aren't putting the volley away. Your mix of skills and talent are different from what we usually see here.
 

time_fly

Hall of Fame
I would say 3.0 to 3.5. Serves are decent except for the foot faults. But you aren’t using your legs and bodies enough on most of your strokes, leading to lots of short balls. On the flip side, neither of you has a strong attack strategy off of those short balls; you mostly play them back and retreat to the baseline. There were a fair number of UEs for “highlights” points. Obviously you are both physically fit enough to play at least 4.0 and your endurance might give older adult 3.5 players trouble in a singles match, but you would need more depth and strategy to beat a strong 3.5.
 

MRG13

New User
3:23 on the second video: clear the balls from the tennis court unless they are at the net.

3.0 This player is consistent when hitting medium pace shots, but is not comfortable with all strokes and lacks control when trying for directional intent, depth, or power.
3.5 This player has achieved improved stroke dependability and direction on moderate pace shots, but still lacks depth and variety. This player exhibits more aggressive net play, has improved court coverage and is developing teamwork in doubles.

The variety is there but consistent depth isn't. I've seen 3.5s, particularly those that play a lot of doubles, with better volleying skills. Both of you hit the volley but that the other is getting one, two or three more tries means that you aren't putting the volley away. Your mix of skills and talent are different from what we usually see here.
As stated previously NTRP rating has much more to do with winning matches. I can tell you that I have played in 4.0 tournaments and done fine and my UTR is just under a 6.5. With that said, I don’t think either of us are anywhere near 3.0.

Maybe our volleys are close to 3.0 though haha
 

undecided

Semi-Pro
As stated previously NTRP rating has much more to do with winning matches. I can tell you that I have played in 4.0 tournaments and done fine and my UTR is just under a 6.5. With that said, I don’t think either of us are anywhere near 3.0.

Maybe our volleys are close to 3.0 though haha
That's higher than my UTR ( but I only have 6 usta matches ) and my groundstrokes are way faster deeper, etc. Of course, I have other issues that you guys may not have and may beat me. Any way, you need more depth, other than that, good overall play.
 

MRG13

New User
That's higher than my UTR ( but I only have 6 usta matches ) and my groundstrokes are way faster deeper, etc. Of course, I have other issues that you guys may not have and may beat me. Any way, you need more depth, other than that, good overall play.
I don’t play USTA anymore or even utr really, most of my results come from playing college tennis. I won a lot of matches just by playing defensively and waiting out my opponents mistakes because that was the most effective way to win, even though it’s definitely not as pretty as a more typical aggressive play style
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
As stated previously NTRP rating has much more to do with winning matches. I can tell you that I have played in 4.0 tournaments and done fine and my UTR is just under a 6.5. With that said, I don’t think either of us are anywhere near 3.0.

Maybe our volleys are close to 3.0 though haha
3.5 This player has achieved improved stroke dependability and direction on moderate pace shots, but still lacks depth and variety. This player exhibits more aggressive net play, has improved court coverage and is developing teamwork in doubles.
4.0 This player has dependable strokes, including directional intent, on both forehand and backhand sides on moderate shots, plus the ability to use lobs, overheads, approach shots and volleys with some success. This player occasionally forces errors when serving and teamwork in doubles is evident.

I used to play with a guy, former college player, and he's in his upper 60s today. He hits heavy, hard shots, is very, very smart (he quickly figures out what kinds of shots and placements you don't like), has the typical hard first serve and kick or slice second serve, and he has a killer volley. If you pop it up to him in doubles, you'd best get out of the way (or your partner should get out of the way). He's a 4.0 player but a falling 4.0 player due to age. This is a 4.0 player without any obvious flaws in his game.

I've seen lots of 4.0s with obvious flaws. Some don't have a reliable overhead. Some can't volley - I have a friend on a college team, has heavy powerful topspin groundstrokes, very fast, very tall, huge first serve. But you have to hit a drop shot to get him to come to the net. He won't go to the net voluntarily and his volley is poor. I would see him pinning you back six to ten feet behind the baseline in a match.

Another guy that I've hit with was a good junior player. Has a radar-tested 120+ MPH serve. Tall guy, very fit but he graduated from college and is working as an accountant and spends a lot of time playing basketball. This guy also has the heavy, deep topspin shots but he can volley too. Again, a falling 4.0 but that's because he's doing a lot of other things in his life.

When people ask about depth and pace - it's for good reason as 4.0s usually have depth and pace. It decreases the opportunity to get attacked effectively. Even the pushers have at least the depth. The lack of pace is intentional.

I'm in NH. LeeD has suggested that I'm a 3.5 to 4.0. I do focus on pace, depth and footwork. For me, depth is more important than pace; but if I have a good setup, I'll just smack the ball.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
As stated previously NTRP rating has much more to do with winning matches. I can tell you that I have played in 4.0 tournaments and done fine and my UTR is just under a 6.5. With that said, I don’t think either of us are anywhere near 3.0.

Maybe our volleys are close to 3.0 though haha
Can definitely see you doing fine at the 4.0 level because you move faster than most 3.5s. There’s not a huge difference in play between high 3.5 and low 4.0. The low 4.0s just tend to have more consistency especially on the bb side.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Can definitely see you doing fine at the 4.0 level because you move faster than most 3.5s. There’s not a huge difference in play between high 3.5 and low 4.0. The low 4.0s just tend to have more consistency especially on the bb side.
Agreed ... more than enough 4.0 skills here, would come down to UEs and knowing how to win points. They have passing shots ... who knew rec tennis passing shots still existed. 8-B This is the problem with rating based on video, even with games and sets. What "it looks like" counts for very little at 4.0 ... even 4.5 ... which is a very frustrating part of tennis.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Agreed ... more than enough 4.0 skills here, would come down to UEs and knowing how to win points. They have passing shots ... who knew rec tennis passing shots still existed. 8-B This is the problem with rating based on video, even with games and sets. What "it looks like" counts for very little at 4.0 ... even 4.5 ... which is a very frustrating part of tennis.
Everyone I play with has passing shots.

I thought that the new paradigm was baseline play and that players didn't come to the net because groundstrokes were so good.

Older players have passing shots. They went through the era of serve and volley.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Everyone I play with has passing shots.

I thought that the new paradigm was baseline play and that players didn't come to the net because groundstrokes were so good.

Older players have passing shots. They went through the era of serve and volley.
Yep ... my experience also. My comment was about 90% of the match video I see here. I usually can't answer the question ... "can player x hit passing shots with their bh". Rec tennis malpractice. 8-B
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Yep ... my experience also. My comment was about 90% of the match video I see here. I usually can't answer the question ... "can player x hit passing shots with their bh". Rec tennis malpractice. 8-B
I take passing shots for granted. The guys I hit with will come up on every serve and return if they think that you don't have a passing shot. Weaknesses are ruthlessly exploited.

Maybe I don't watch enough video here.
 

Jhreamer

Rookie
This is a fun watch. Love a lot of these points.

Don't know which of you it is, but the dude with the shorter serve motion reminds me of Roddick's. The high pre-toss position and all that. Also love his BH.

I love the rally tolerance. Makes me itch for play even more.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
There’s not much difference between a strong 3.5 and a weak 4.0.
Sure thats true. But these 2 guys in the videos have good technique, good footwork and movement. Everything you need to win at 4.0 . I will recruit them to my 4.0 team any day. :)
 

MRG13

New User
This is a fun watch. Love a lot of these points.

Don't know which of you it is, but the dude with the shorter serve motion reminds me of Roddick's. The high pre-toss position and all that. Also love his BH.

I love the rally tolerance. Makes me itch for play even more.
Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed it. We’re going to be posting a lot more hitting videos for sure.

I believe you’re referring to my brother. I’m the one with the navy blue shirt in the second vid. His backhand is great, I wish I could hit it like he does
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
oh trust me. i have played several 3.5 and 4.0 leagues. Most 3.5s dont have BH, and they cant intentionally target BH either.
Yup. But according to NuBas, 3.5s on his planet can rally against pace and spin all day long. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

You start to see semi-reliable backhands around strong 3.5s and higher.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
Yup. But according to NuBas, 3.5s on his planet can rally against pace and spin all day long. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

You start to see semi-reliable backhands around strong 3.5s and higher.
Tennis talk has interesting crowds. Many People overestimate playing level of themselves and people they know. But they underestimate big time the level from videos posted, probably by at least .5 ntrp.
 
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