My doubles partner is a ticking time bomb...

[dkshifty]

I'll first share a couple important backstory notes. I started playing tennis about 4 years ago pre-pandemic with my buddy, lets call him Alex. Alex and I are pretty much the same type of player (toolbox wise) but totally different mentally. Fast forward many moons, I started playing USTA '21 18+ 3.5 as a 3.0S beginning of last year while he played 6.5 combo with me late last year. I am now a 3.5 and he is a 3.0S still (no adult games under his belt). I've known him for decades, we are great friends off the court so he asks if we can partner together in a match and I oblige.

We recently played a young consistent 3.5S ghost and an older gentleman with a lengthy 3.5 record in '22 18+ 3.5. We start the match off 0-5 (I had a couple crucial double faults and he went for too much too early) and on the changeover, he told me the reason for the unforced errors is he had a bad warm up. No worries. I said lets go, all business from here, we got this. We roll off 4 games in a row but lose to the 3.5S holding serve. Second set we come out guns a blazing, up 3-0. He's hitting big returns, I'm finishing points at the net, easy life. I see our opponents whisper to each other and magically, I don't get any more balls at the net. It was a heavy dose of lobs and even with me trying to fake/poach, maybe 90% of the balls going to Alex. After trying to hit overheads from the baseline, missing returns and whatever else he was doing, our opponents are up 5-3. We got it all the way to a tb and lost for a straight sets loss.

The whole time, as our opponents were staging their comeback, he was cursing loudly, hitting balls straight up into the air at the end of games, calling himself stupid, and whacking the ground with his racket. All I could do was to tell him no worries, lets get the next point but it had no effect. Post match, my argument was that:

1. Showing you're upset to your opponents give them leverage
2. It also got them to target you and continue to attack your weakness (lobs, in this case)
3. It's rec tennis

Alex's argument was that
1. I don't see those type of balls (lobs)
2. We lost because we did not have a "Plan B"

The result is less important to me, what matters is, what do I do as a partner to get him to snap out of it? I feel like when he gets down this road, he digs the hole deeper and deeper. We will be playing together again I'm sure. I can easily just not partner with him but I want to see my buddy get better, as well as problem solve. What can I do better as a partner and if at all possible, how can I prevent him from going full-tilt mid-match?

 

[travlerajm]

I'll first share a couple important backstory notes. I started playing tennis about 4 years ago pre-pandemic with my buddy, lets call him Alex. Alex and I are pretty much the same type of player (toolbox wise) but totally different mentally. Fast forward many moons, I started playing USTA '21 18+ 3.5 as a 3.0S beginning of last year while he played 6.5 combo with me late last year. I am now a 3.5 and he is a 3.0S still (no adult games under his belt). I've known him for decades, we are great friends off the court so he asks if we can partner together in a match and I oblige.

We recently played a young consistent 3.5S ghost and an older gentleman with a lengthy 3.5 record in '22 18+ 3.5. We start the match off 0-5 (I had a couple crucial double faults and he went for too much too early) and on the changeover, he told me the reason for the unforced errors is he had a bad warm up. No worries. I said lets go, all business from here, we got this. We roll off 4 games in a row but lose to the 3.5S holding serve. Second set we come out guns a blazing, up 3-0. He's hitting big returns, I'm finishing points at the net, easy life. I see our opponents whisper to each other and magically, I don't get any more balls at the net. It was a heavy dose of lobs and even with me trying to fake/poach, maybe 90% of the balls going to Alex. After trying to hit overheads from the baseline, missing returns and whatever else he was doing, our opponents are up 5-3. We got it all the way to a tb and lost for a straight sets loss.

The whole time, as our opponents were staging their comeback, he was cursing loudly, hitting balls straight up into the air at the end of games, calling himself stupid, and whacking the ground with his racket. All I could do was to tell him no worries, lets get the next point but it had no effect. Post match, my argument was that:

1. Showing you're upset to your opponents give them leverage
2. It also got them to target you and continue to attack your weakness (lobs, in this case)
3. It's rec tennis

Alex's argument was that
1. I don't see those type of balls (lobs)
2. We lost because we did not have a "Plan B"

The result is less important to me, what matters is, what do I do as a partner to get him to snap out of it? I feel like when he gets down this road, he digs the hole deeper and deeper. We will be playing together again I'm sure. I can easily just not partner with him but I want to see my buddy get better, as well as problem solve. What can I do better as a partner and if at all possible, how can I prevent him from going full-tilt mid-match?

Tell him to play closer to the net than you are. That will channel more balls to you, and less to him.

 

[Curtennis]

by typing this whole thread out in the excruciating detail you did, it appears you get as worked up about “rec” tennis as much as anyone.
this story just reeks of a humble brag to tell yourself just how good you were and it was all your teammates fault.
“I see our opponents whisper to each other”
This sounds like something out of a fiction novel more than real life.

 

[USMC-615]

Ever heard of the ol’ saying “Act your age, not your damn shoe size”?…try that on him and if he doesn’t get it, tell him adios and move on!

 

[dkshifty]

by typing this whole thread out in the excruciating detail you did, it appears you get as worked up about “rec” tennis as much as anyone.
this story just reeks of a humble brag to tell yourself just how good you were and it was all your teammates fault.
“I see our opponents whisper to each other”
This sounds like something out of a fiction novel more than real life.

thank you for your input. Sorry if it came off as bragging? I didn’t win a single game as a 3.0S so I know I’m not that good.

in competitive play, the objective is to win the match for my team, but when that doesn’t happen, all I can do is try to do better, in this case get on the same page with my partner.

it’s odd, I’ve read stuff on here where people don’t provide any details and get roasted for it. I suppose providing too much has the same effect for you. Apologies again.

just looking to see how I can get my partner to stop blowing a fuse that’s all.

 

[dkshifty]

Ever heard of the ol’ saying “Act your age, not your damn shoe size”?…try that on him and if he doesn’t get it, tell him adios and move on!

First time I’m hearing this phrase. I like it. I’ll tell him next time and be ready to block any incoming punches

 

[dkshifty]

Tell him to play closer to the net than you are. That will channel more balls to you, and less to him.

So if he is receiving, I tell him to come join me at the net? If I am receiving, I stay put at baseline? Just kinda concerned about being lobbed if we are both at the net.

 

[Bambooman]

Make a plan to whisper to each other and switch positions on the fly. Or both just play back. You are not trees.

 

[CosmosMpower]

Dang OP have we played dubs together?

 

[dkshifty]

Dang OP have we played dubs together?

if by "together" you mean on the other side handing me an L, very possible

 

[socallefty]

No. 1 skill required to play winning doubles - Being able to get your partner to snap out of a funk and play better or get relaxed and not play tight because they feel like the worst player on the court.
How long does it take to acquire this skill - Can be a lifetime. Depends how good your communication skills are and your ability to figure out the right buttons to push by reading your partner well.

Even many experienced doubles players struggle with this and there is no easy solution. Staying relaxed yourself, using humor to defuse tension, using positive body language including high-fives often all go a long way. Good luck!

 

[Cashman]

The whole time, as our opponents were staging their comeback, he was cursing loudly, hitting balls straight up into the air at the end of games, calling himself stupid, and whacking the ground with his racket.

This sort of behaviour is childish and embarrassing. If a partner does this to me, I do not play with him again.

he needs to grow up before you can have discussions about tactics

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

1. Keep playing with him, don't let someone else who doesn't know him well really sour on his behavior
2. Next match tell him let's get all the balls in first, then gradually start going for it, let the other team make mistakes, see how it goes. Build a foundation to win the match in the first 4 games then adjust accordingly
3. If Lobs are killing him, literally play both back, if it is just 1 or 2 lobs every 20 points no big deal
4. Tell him I don't think you play better when you are negative, next match let's see how we do if we are positive no matter what. If you think communication like that won't be well received, just short circuit his behavior when he misses a shot, before he can beat himself up, just when he misses go talk to him or say let's get the next point, just interrupt his victim role play.
5. If his personality would accept this, tell him let's use the matches as a learning experience and try and adjust, he seems to be open to that since he mentioned plan B, well work out a plan A and B to acknowledge that you listened and heard his opinion. Maybe even asking him in a changeover after a meltdown if he wants to do this or that will help refocus him for a couple games.

 

[Chairman3]

Ultimately you may not be able to play with him, some partnerships just don't work.
Maybe he feels like he's letting you down and puts too much pressure on himself.
It is really hard to snap people out of those funks, they have to figure it out and do it on their own.
But be encouraging, fist bump/high five/racquet high five, something simple between every point...even if you lost the point.
Keep both your spirits up
At some point, nicely, remind him to play his level (a 3.0 hitting overheads from the baseline, not smart or safe)

In the match if he starts faltering or playing risky be nice and remind him..safe shots, smart shots, make your opponents win points.

Alter your post match approach, your three points kind of just rubbed it in that he lost his sh** and probably made him feel worse. Instead offer constructive observations. "Hey when we get down we need to play points out and make smarter shots" something like that.

Good luck, hope it works out.

 

[denoted]

If the mental game of tennis was difficult, there'd probably be books about it, even "fiction novels."

 

[socalmd123]

When Alex turns 12 he will grow out of it

 

[onehandbh]

You're partner is correct.

If your opponents changed to a lob strategy where he got 90% of the balls and won bc of this strategy, you both should have adjusted in some way to this.

Find a strategy that allows you both to use your strengths and also hide or avoid your weaknesses.

For example, sometimes if I play with a partner with a weak serve, I might occasionally poach sometimes just disrupt the returner's rhythm and to also lure them to go for more down-the-line returns.

 

[onehandbh]

I'll get passed at the net sometimes, but I don't mind as this strategy can make it more likely for us hold serve without me going back to the baseline.

 

[ChaelAZ]

We roll off 4 games in a row but lose to the 3.5S holding serve. Second set we come out guns a blazing, up 3-0. He's hitting big returns, I'm finishing points at the net, easy life. I see our opponents whisper to each other and magically, I don't get any more balls at the net. It was a heavy dose of lobs and even with me trying to fake/poach, maybe 90% of the balls going to Alex. After trying to hit overheads from the baseline, missing returns and whatever else he was doing, our opponents are up 5-3. We got it all the way to a tb and lost for a straight sets loss.

There are 100's of threads over the years on this forum and any other tennis board about how rec players struggle against lobbers, dinkers, "no pace" players and hacks. And we are talking all the way up to 4.5, or even talk about playing someone like Su-Wei Hsieh in the Pros. Look up MEP or GSG on this forum or go check out his matches on YouTube. This is not just your partner, and the frustration is real for many, myself included. It is exponentially worse in lower 3.5 or 3.0 tennis because most of those players have not worked on the skills, footwork, or strategies to overcome them. As @onehandbh mentioned for doubles:

If your opponents changed to a lob strategy where he got 90% of the balls and won bc of this strategy, you both should have adjusted in some way to this.
Find a strategy that allows you both to use your strengths and also hide or avoid your weaknesses.

I will say, even with a good strategy, even at 3.5 you both might not have the skills to fully overcome it and that gives you something to work on individually and as a team. The focus on your partners frustration (rightful frustration maybe) and blame isn't going to fix anything. While handling pressure is important in tennis, in the case you mention it is lack of strategy and technique that is causing the frustration, so as others above mention, you can work on that together or maybe find another partner that you think fits better for important matches.

And yeah man, have fun and see it as a challenge instead of a win/lose expectation and learn each time. That has helped me relax a bit more too.

Cheers.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

@dkshifty,

How does your partner behave with other partners? Or when he plays singles against anyone but you?

it's possible that he's normal in those situations but he feels pressure playing with you because he wants to keep up with you in a friendly rivalry and he's not able to do so. And so he acts out as an ego-defense mechanism. We've all done it [I know I have on occasion].

His response to your argument is irrelevant: it might be true that he doesn't practice against lobs and doesn't have a plan B but those things can be addressed. What is much more difficult to counter is his mental attitude. Let's say he develops a decent OH and crafts a plan B. Then the opponent will do something else that throws him off, no matter how many plans he has. The key is to develop mental strength to be able to handle the slings and arrows of outrageous opponents because they will be flying fast and furious. Until he can do that, no amount of technical adjustments will matter much.

If he's open, show him the below videos. If he's not, you'll have to find a way to pass the info on subtly without sounding too preachy.

YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

by typing this whole thread out in the excruciating detail you did, it appears you get as worked up about “rec” tennis as much as anyone.

But there's a difference between posting something and acting like a child on the court.

this story just reeks of a humble brag to tell yourself just how good you were and it was all your teammates fault.
“I see our opponents whisper to each other”
This sounds like something out of a fiction novel more than real life.

I didn't get that vibe at all. Any time we see an imbalance in the opposing team, we're going to conference and alter our strategy [ie "Don't hit it to Joe"; or "Frank doesn't like low slice"; etc]. The fact that we're conferencing does not mean we think our opponents are the Bryan brothers; we're just exchanging info that we don't want the other team to hear.

You've never been in a situation where you are winning and your opponents conference to try and adjust strategy? Or you're losing and your team conferences? It happens to me every match, both on the giving and receiving ends. It's just how we play the game.

 

[Bambooman]

The pros whisper behind a hand over the mouth as if the opponents have a lip reader feeding them info on an earpiece.

 

[Curtennis]

But there's a difference between posting something and acting like a child on the court.



I didn't get that vibe at all. Any time we see an imbalance in the opposing team, we're going to conference and alter our strategy [ie "Don't hit it to Joe"; or "Frank doesn't like low slice"; etc]. The fact that we're conferencing does not mean we think our opponents are the Bryan brothers; we're just exchanging info that we don't want the other team to hear.

You've never been in a situation where you are winning and your opponents conference to try and adjust strategy? Or you're losing and your team conferences? It happens to me every match, both on the giving and receiving ends. It's just how we play the game.

I’m sure everything is very accurate and normal. I also think the whole story could have been summed up with, “opponents began targeting my teammate, he made a lot of errors and began to self destruct with emotion. How can I help him?”
I think it was a bit superfluous to remark how when the opponenthit the balls to OP he would win the point.
The detail of which he highlighted his teammates errors, and made it clear that if it was just himself on the court x2 they couldn’t have lost, makes me think this post was about more than helping his teammates mental well being.

that said, who cares. I’m just another ****poster on the internet.

 

[eah123]

In the middle of a match, if my partner is getting stressed out from unforced errors, getting targeted by the opponents, etc, I do two things. First, I stay really positive and start saying funny things to my partner. Like, nice duck, good eye, you really got them, don’t worry about it, etc. Second, I never tell my partner to do anything, but instead, get him to try to play better by telling him what the other side is trying to do. Like if they are lobbing him a lot, instead of saying to stay on the service line, I just say watch out, they are trying to lob us to death! And that will be enough to encourage my partner to make an adjustment.

If I really need to get my partner out of a funk, then I will start talking about something really off topic like, what kinda beers should we get after the match? Or did you seen anything good on Netflix this week? And continue the conversation between points. That helps him get his mind off the unforced errors and back to playing well (hopefully).

 

[puppybutts]

I don't even like playing an opponent who curses and chucks stuff around, let alone my own partner.

sometimes you get closer to people by confronting them. other times you blow the relationship up. idk how long you have played doubles with him but just try to give him a few more matches while trying to be positive or block him out. if it doesn't work, all you can do is try and tell him it distracts you when he swears off like that, can he try to play a little more calmly. if that doesn't work...well, do you value your friendship with him over a partner that might be a better fit for you?

reminds me of how a lot of guys i know excuse away people who are complete monster children in video games, swearing off at people or even to their own friends. they say "that's just him when he's gaming." sorry, I don't differentiate like that. life is short and I'm not spending it with ragers no matter the occasion.

 

[PK6]

Lol-the it’s only tennis or rec tennis is a copout!!! If your spending thousands of dollars on lessons to lose all the time it’s not worth playing. That’s what’s always made me mad is if my partner walks off court laughing/socializing with the other team especially losing in 6/0 6/0 or 6/1 6/2. As well taking with other team during match. It’s happened to me to many times as well partner saying if we win great if not no big deal. F—k that!!!’ I’m sooo glad I’ve quit playing tennis/USTA as it’s run it’s course and I’ve taken it as far as I can.

 

[Arak]

It happens to me quite often that the opponents lob me to target my partner. In such cases, I move backwards to cover the baseline and support my partner. However, even then, if they sense that my partner is weaker, they will keep on targeting him anyway. In this case, I will try to cover more of the court myself and switch sides mid point with my partner to disrupt their play. Anyway, sometimes you’re just going to lose whatever you do.

 

[dkshifty]

Firstly, thank you all for such great constructive advice! I have an update and promise not to keep it too long. I set up a Friday night session with him and our teammate that he would ultimately be pairing with for Sunday's match. The partner (lets call him Sam) is a strong 3.5 who although is a singles player, hits a heavy ball and is a baseliner at heart. No real put away power at the net, but can touch/block volley. My idea was, with Alex's rage, Sam can set him up for points at the net. Alex looked pretty sharp that day, he even mentioned that he had to redeem himself from his previous poor performance.

Fast forward to Sunday, they lost 5 and 1 in straight sets. What I saw was that Alex didn't throw his racket this time, but the cursing was still there. No racket chuck on this Mother's day, I saw this as progress. Missed returns and going for too much was still a big issue. However, this time he wasn't the one being bullied. They instead moved Sam back and forth the majority at the baseline of the time due to lack of activity from Alex at the net. They did throw some lobs at Alex, creating some missed overheads. But the match felt very 2v1 at times. I told Alex afterwards to throw some fakes in there to bait some balls to put away. Progress in my opinion!!

@FuzzyYellowBalls I definitely will give it another shot playing with him later in the season. This week, I just wanted to see if I was the bad apple.

@Chairman3 I've tried this. Unfortunately the response I got from Alex was "I only have the one speed."

@onehandbh You are right, I should have left the alley wide open to induce them to do something different. I will definitely do this in the future.

@ChaelAZ I've totally embraced pushers, dinkers whatever you want to call them. I do my best to just get the ball back and not see RED. Thats exactly what they want you to do anyway. I am fine prolonging points, I just hope Alex can see the importance of this too.

@S&V-not_dead_yet I resonated with this post a lot, thank you for sharing. This was the main reason I paired him with somebody different. He did look a little calmer, perhaps because he did not want to fully explode playing with a new teammate. You may have hit the nail on the head about possible rivalry. He has 1 more year of tennis under his belt than I do. He has also told me that he doesn't play "soft" or "pushy" tennis. I thought this was a defense mechanism because at the end of the day, 90% of tennis is mental imo. We've all been pushed around to where we use defensive slices and lobs to neutralize or reset the point. Can't just brute force swing your way out of trouble.

@eah123 I tried brother. I really tried. After the "Hey, you were there" or "cmon we got this," I've thrown in lunch/dinner ideas, laugh about opponent's haircut, what have you. My response is still "****ing STOOOOPID, ughhhhhhh, ****ing TRASHHHHHH."

@puppybutts I can't just drop this guy, I was a groomsman for his wedding and have known him 15+ years. You did mention something that lined up. He is quite the sore loser when we used to play video games. Like chuck the controller, turn the console off before losing, that type of stuff......

@PK6 I get it, I don't like to spend my weekend losing either but all you can really do is do your best. I try not to be results oriented. You always end up getting your exercise and meeting new people. I've played a decade of league basketball before tennis and I like tennis more due to the fact that there is so much variation. Also, most importantly, you cant just brute force your way through tennis. Its super tactical and I want to learn more of it.

@Arak now that's a new one I haven't heard before. I will DEFINITELY try switching spots mid point. Probably can't win points like this, but at least get them to change a target. Thanks, will definitely employ this one.

 

[EggSalad]

Alex sounds like a lot of 3.0 players that in their head think they are a 5.0 level player.

1 great shot for every 15 UE.

 

[Chairman3]

Last piece of free internet advice...
Alex may need to play singles for awhile.
I'm not sure, with his attitude, that he'll improve playing doubles.
He needs consistency in his game which will lead to an overall better mentality.
Been there, trust me, so I'm speaking from personal experience.
Maybe that's not an option, but it's a thought.

You seem like a good friend Keep up the good work.

 

[dkshifty]

@EggSalad I hate to say it, but in his case, that might be true. Ive said previously that he has all the tools. His winners look amazing. Just too many errors....

@Chairman3 I've definitely thought about putting him in singles. He is definitely athletic enough for 2 sets and a super tie. Also, seeing every ball in a match might be a good thing. If he can't get out of this funk and play a singles match, I'll update you. We've played singles before for fun and it's been about 50/50. Me being a heavier set guy, I'm definitely playing more defense and getting more balls back, while if hes feeling good that day, he can move me around and finish the point. I just want him to get better and stop being so hard on himself. Tennis is the only game where errors are normal and you can still win.

 

[Flootoo]

is this a thing even?

"overheads from the baseline"

 

[ChaelAZ]

is this a thing even?

"overheads from the baseline"

I do it all the time.
Of course, I call it a serve.

 

[TennisOTM]

is this a thing even?

"overheads from the baseline"

Well sometimes a lob will land and bounce high enough that you can take an overhead swing from near or behind the baseline. The other day my opponent hit a lob so good that it landed in near the baseline and hit the back fence above my head out of reach. Trying a pre-bounce overhead would have at least given me a chance on that one.

 

[Jonathyl]

One thing I've done before is I tell my partner that his expressions of frustration make me more nervous and I play worse. Its a total lie, but it seemed to work.

 

[FiddlerDog]

Alex's argument was that
1. I don't see those type of balls (lobs)

Alex needs to play more tennis then.

 

[Morch Us]

1. Showing you're upset to your opponents give them leverage
2. It also got them to target you and continue to attack your weakness (lobs, in this case)

The above seems more like partner blaming to me. I will explain below why this thinking may not be constructive.

With this attitude you are very likely to miss a large portion of what is happening on the court.

Alex's argument was that
1. I don't see those type of balls (lobs)
2. We lost because we did not have a "Plan B"

Do you think he was incorrect? First thing to note is that he did not event hint any partner blaming. Believe me... no-one is perfect on court, so with the wrong attitude he can definitely find some things you did which costed the match. So first of all give him points for that. Next I don't think he was incorrect. He also understood his weakness (against lobs). Also probably have better understanding (than you) of the exact reason for the loss, since he hinted that you both did not change a thing (plan B). Also I will give him extra credit for saying "we" ... instead of "you".

what do I do as a partner to get him to snap out of it? I feel like when he gets down this road, he digs the hole deeper and deeper.

The skill needed is not to "correct him" but to do things differently to change the situations. Your partner is what he is... you are what you are. Neighther of you are going to change your personalities (it needs a lot of effort, which most rec players don't have time for) for a rec match. What you can do is not "allow" the same sceneries to keep happening over and over again. This may involve, changing your and your partners starting positions (why not just go two back for example, to give your opponents a different look). Another ways to change scenary/court position is.... if the opponents were doing lobs from baseline... bring them forward with purposeful short balls, making the lob ineffective (more open court). Also analyse the shot before the lob... why they were able to lob consistenly etc etc...

Those are the right thinking process, instead of "heii... my partner is making too many errors... he cannot handle lobs.... my opponents are targeting my partner etc etc...". With the destructive thinking process, you are too concentrated on changing your partner to do something different (which is never going to happen), putting too much pressure on him, and pushing him deeper into the hole. Also you will miss a lot of "other" things happening on the court, when all your focus is on what your partner is doing (... you just don't know what you missed... next time record the match and watch it again with neutral mentality.. you will see what I mean).

Without seeing what exactly was happening/leading to lobs and without knowing exact skills or weaknesses of all 4 players it is hard to say what is the right way to solve constant incoming lobs. But some random thinkings which may or maynot work.

two back
varied I formation with the net person (you) slightly further back, allowing you to take overheads from service lane area (taking away most of the lobs).
placing the ball to the side where the opponents lobs are less consistent
making the opponents move forward via purposeful short balls
keeping the ball lower
reducing or increasing the pace of the ball to get less effective lobs
reducing or increasing the spin of the ball to get less effective lobs

 

[Morch Us]

In short summary @dkshifty I would suggest you to try and control things which are under your direct control first. Also focus on the right things on the court.

 

[zaskar1]

I'll first share a couple important backstory notes. I started playing tennis about 4 years ago pre-pandemic with my buddy, lets call him Alex. Alex and I are pretty much the same type of player (toolbox wise) but totally different mentally. Fast forward many moons, I started playing USTA '21 18+ 3.5 as a 3.0S beginning of last year while he played 6.5 combo with me late last year. I am now a 3.5 and he is a 3.0S still (no adult games under his belt). I've known him for decades, we are great friends off the court so he asks if we can partner together in a match and I oblige.

We recently played a young consistent 3.5S ghost and an older gentleman with a lengthy 3.5 record in '22 18+ 3.5. We start the match off 0-5 (I had a couple crucial double faults and he went for too much too early) and on the changeover, he told me the reason for the unforced errors is he had a bad warm up. No worries. I said lets go, all business from here, we got this. We roll off 4 games in a row but lose to the 3.5S holding serve. Second set we come out guns a blazing, up 3-0. He's hitting big returns, I'm finishing points at the net, easy life. I see our opponents whisper to each other and magically, I don't get any more balls at the net. It was a heavy dose of lobs and even with me trying to fake/poach, maybe 90% of the balls going to Alex. After trying to hit overheads from the baseline, missing returns and whatever else he was doing, our opponents are up 5-3. We got it all the way to a tb and lost for a straight sets loss.

The whole time, as our opponents were staging their comeback, he was cursing loudly, hitting balls straight up into the air at the end of games, calling himself stupid, and whacking the ground with his racket. All I could do was to tell him no worries, lets get the next point but it had no effect. Post match, my argument was that:

1. Showing you're upset to your opponents give them leverage
2. It also got them to target you and continue to attack your weakness (lobs, in this case)
3. It's rec tennis

Alex's argument was that
1. I don't see those type of balls (lobs)
2. We lost because we did not have a "Plan B"

The result is less important to me, what matters is, what do I do as a partner to get him to snap out of it? I feel like when he gets down this road, he digs the hole deeper and deeper. We will be playing together again I'm sure. I can easily just not partner with him but I want to see my buddy get better, as well as problem solve. What can I do better as a partner and if at all possible, how can I prevent him from going full-tilt mid-match?

shifty
my advice is to get another partner, your buddy, Alex sounds like a "headcase"
the only guy that seemed to play better when he got upset is "johnny mac" obviously your partner is not him
z

 

[dkshifty]

The above seems more like partner blaming to me. I will explain below why this thinking may not be constructive.

With this attitude you are very likely to miss a large portion of what is happening on the court.

**I hear ya man, looking back, it does sound like i saddled the loss on my partner. I'm the type of teammate that likes to troubleshoot during the game by chatting with my partner. If we try different things and we lose, we did our best and tip our caps to the opponents. I would ask him if he wanted to try switching sides, target a certain player or what hes seeing so far and the response was "****ing stupid, wtf am i doing, jesus christ so trash" so i felt all i could do was reply "its all good, lets go." There was zero strategy talk with Alex.

Do you think he was incorrect? First thing to note is that he did not event hint any partner blaming. Believe me... no-one is perfect on court, so with the wrong attitude he can definitely find some things you did which costed the match. So first of all give him points for that. Next I don't think he was incorrect. He also understood his weakness (against lobs). Also probably have better understanding (than you) of the exact reason for the loss, since he hinted that you both did not change a thing (plan B). Also I will give him extra credit for saying "we" ... instead of "you".

**I would say hes correct on both. Lobs I took his word for it, and without developing a Plan B, C, D on the fly, nothing will change. The opponents applied a bucket of water on the wet blanket. I guess I didn't know what to do more than to calm him down since I couldn't get him a tactical response out of him. First time for everything.

The skill needed is not to "correct him" but to do things differently to change the situations. Your partner is what he is... you are what you are. Neighther of you are going to change your personalities (it needs a lot of effort, which most rec players don't have time for) for a rec match. What you can do is not "allow" the same sceneries to keep happening over and over again. This may involve, changing your and your partners starting positions (why not just go two back for example, to give your opponents a different look). Another ways to change scenary/court position is.... if the opponents were doing lobs from baseline... bring them forward with purposeful short balls, making the lob ineffective (more open court). Also analyse the shot before the lob... why they were able to lob consistenly etc etc...

Those are the right thinking process, instead of "heii... my partner is making too many errors... he cannot handle lobs.... my opponents are targeting my partner etc etc...". With the destructive thinking process, you are too concentrated on changing your partner to do something different (which is never going to happen), putting too much pressure on him, and pushing him deeper into the hole. Also you will miss a lot of "other" things happening on the court, when all your focus is on what your partner is doing (... you just don't know what you missed... next time record the match and watch it again with neutral mentality.. you will see what I mean).


**By getting him to "snap out of it" I was alluding to how me as a partner can help him let go of previous mistakes. My boy Alex is super hard on himself. Honestly a majority of balls he missed, weren't routine and were tough balls imo but hes kicking himself for it.



Without seeing what exactly was happening/leading to lobs and without knowing exact skills or weaknesses of all 4 players it is hard to say what is the right way to solve constant incoming lobs. But some random thinkings which may or maynot work.

two back
varied I formation with the net person (you) slightly further back, allowing you to take overheads from service lane area (taking away most of the lobs).
placing the ball to the side where the opponents lobs are less consistent
making the opponents move forward via purposeful short balls
keeping the ball lower
reducing or increasing the pace of the ball to get less effective lobs
reducing or increasing the spin of the ball to get less effective lobs

**Again, totally happy to try different looks. My other partners and I always chat and try a bunch of silly things to try and turn the tides. When Alex gets into this deep rage, hes basically talking to himself and is a closed book. I would love to be able to help him mentally hit the reset button but I feel helpless as his partner.

**Update**
Since we're close buddies, I did get a chance to chat with Alex more in depth about that game during our last hit, and competitive tennis in general. He basically said that his cursing and self chat is his way to dig himself out of the hole. I asked if he wanted to work on lobs and he said hes going to hope the next opponents wont lob, but he's still going to smash them. Then he said something that I would like some insight on. He said "tennis is all about hitting nice shots to me," and "I don't care about winning or losing in tennis. I just want to smash the ball and hit nice shots. That makes me more satisfied. Is that selfish?" My response was "very." I feel it is selfish because we are additions to a team of more experienced guys that want to go to district sections or whatever its called. Am I wrong? Perhaps I shouldn't have agreed? When we played league basketball together, our team was selfless. I would sit myself or he would sit himself if the current group in there was working, as we collectively had the ultimate goal of doing what it takes to win the trophy.


I asked if we can talk strategy next time out during the match to adjust, he said "he'll try but no guarantee." The last match of the season is a rematch against the team we lost to so I promised him we'll give it another go.

 

[dkshifty]

shifty
my advice is to get another partner, your buddy, Alex sounds like a "headcase"
the only guy that seemed to play better when he got upset is "johnny mac" obviously your partner is not him
z

Its tough man. That's my guy, I'll always stick my neck out for him. I grew up playing competitive basketball with him and hes a dog, super killer instinct. There HAS to be something more I can do as his partner to make this work.

 

[ktx]

I guess I see where he is coming from (pure ego) but he also needs to understand that wasting time being negative and down on himself on the court is not going to help him play better. Instead it will prob make you as his partner play worse and makes the opponent excited they have a head case who’s imploding. So if you can explain to him that spiraling out is not going to help him hit those pretty shots but make it harder, maybe he can come around. Imo the in-match strategy is a separate thing and makes him uncomfortable bc he doesn’t really know what he’s doing.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

So, did the bomb go off yet?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

He said "tennis is all about hitting nice shots to me," and "I don't care about winning or losing in tennis. I just want to smash the ball and hit nice shots. That makes me more satisfied. Is that selfish?" My response was "very."

It's selfish if he's playing doubles since his actions affect his partner. The only way it wouldn't be selfish is if his partner feels the same way.
It's selfish if he's playing on a team [singles or doubles] since his actions affect his team.

Either the captain accepts his attitude and asks him to play anyway or he plays singles tournaments only.

 

[dkshifty]

I guess I see where he is coming from (pure ego) but he also needs to understand that wasting time being negative and down on himself on the court is not going to help him play better. Instead it will prob make you as his partner play worse and makes the opponent excited they have a head case who’s imploding. So if you can explain to him that spiraling out is not going to help him hit those pretty shots but make it harder, maybe he can come around. Imo the in-match strategy is a separate thing and makes him uncomfortable bc he doesn’t really know what he’s doing.

That's all i was alluding to. I know my typical partners and i know to heavily target a guy who looks volatile.

So, did the bomb go off yet?

6/19 we shall see. if this thread is still somehow alive, i'm happy to update.

It's selfish if he's playing doubles since his actions affect his partner. The only way it wouldn't be selfish is if his partner feels the same way.
It's selfish if he's playing on a team [singles or doubles] since his actions affect his team.

Either the captain accepts his attitude and asks him to play anyway or he plays singles tournaments only.

Yeah, especially since we have some guys on the team that are really trying to get bumped up or already playing up, hence wanting a high win/loss ratio. When I'm paired with them, I feel like its my duty to not go for too much so I don't let them down. Our captain seems to brush it off when it comes to Alex, but so far he's 0-2, both times the pair lost straight sets. He was 1-3 on 6.5 combo last season. Cap did say he will pair with him next to see if it'll make any difference but won't put him in singles.

 

[guanzishou]

I'll first share a couple important backstory notes. I started playing tennis about 4 years ago pre-pandemic with my buddy, lets call him Alex. Alex and I are pretty much the same type of player (toolbox wise) but totally different mentally. Fast forward many moons, I started playing USTA '21 18+ 3.5 as a 3.0S beginning of last year while he played 6.5 combo with me late last year. I am now a 3.5 and he is a 3.0S still (no adult games under his belt). I've known him for decades, we are great friends off the court so he asks if we can partner together in a match and I oblige.

We recently played a young consistent 3.5S ghost and an older gentleman with a lengthy 3.5 record in '22 18+ 3.5. We start the match off 0-5 (I had a couple crucial double faults and he went for too much too early) and on the changeover, he told me the reason for the unforced errors is he had a bad warm up. No worries. I said lets go, all business from here, we got this. We roll off 4 games in a row but lose to the 3.5S holding serve. Second set we come out guns a blazing, up 3-0. He's hitting big returns, I'm finishing points at the net, easy life. I see our opponents whisper to each other and magically, I don't get any more balls at the net. It was a heavy dose of lobs and even with me trying to fake/poach, maybe 90% of the balls going to Alex. After trying to hit overheads from the baseline, missing returns and whatever else he was doing, our opponents are up 5-3. We got it all the way to a tb and lost for a straight sets loss.

The whole time, as our opponents were staging their comeback, he was cursing loudly, hitting balls straight up into the air at the end of games, calling himself stupid, and whacking the ground with his racket. All I could do was to tell him no worries, lets get the next point but it had no effect. Post match, my argument was that:

1. Showing you're upset to your opponents give them leverage
2. It also got them to target you and continue to attack your weakness (lobs, in this case)
3. It's rec tennis

Alex's argument was that
1. I don't see those type of balls (lobs)
2. We lost because we did not have a "Plan B"

The result is less important to me, what matters is, what do I do as a partner to get him to snap out of it? I feel like when he gets down this road, he digs the hole deeper and deeper. We will be playing together again I'm sure. I can easily just not partner with him but I want to see my buddy get better, as well as problem solve. What can I do better as a partner and if at all possible, how can I prevent him from going full-tilt mid-match?

Lol, we had an angry player like that in our club. It was getting really dangerous that he was finally banned from playing at our club !

 

[Moon Shooter]

I understand we’re your coming from. Some guys seem unaware of other players and don’t mind yelling and throwing temper tantrums. It usually doesn’t bother me but sometimes. It is.a bummer to play with theses people. But that combined with someone that complains about how the other team hits the ball as though it’s not his fault he doesn’t know how to deal with lobs would be a bit much. But he is a friend and you want to get past this.
I do like indirectly referring to his outbursts as a lack of “mental toughness”. “If we hit a bad streak let’s try to keep our mental toughness and not show the other team our weakness by beating our rackets and yelling”

As far as what he wants to do versus what he needs to do I think you just say “sure I understand but if your game shuts down as soon as someone lobs your just not going to be competitive playing at 3.5.” Maybe you can play some combo leagues with him.

 

[zaskar1]

Its tough man. That's my guy, I'll always stick my neck out for him. I grew up playing competitive basketball with him and hes a dog, super killer instinct. There HAS to be something more I can do as his partner to make this work.

shifty
if you insist on playing doubles with this "headcase" i would give you "kudos" and say you are a very tolerant person.
you can mention to him that it bothers you and is very distracting when he starts to "go off" but typically
saying anything will probably make it worse.
z

 

[mikelikesgatorad]

if 3.5 players have the ability to target a specific player then you might not be doing enough with the balls you're hitting. even if you are the stronger there is still plenty of room to improve.

 

[dkshifty]

I understand we’re your coming from. Some guys seem unaware of other players and don’t mind yelling and throwing temper tantrums. It usually doesn’t bother me but sometimes. It is.a bummer to play with theses people. But that combined with someone that complains about how the other team hits the ball as though it’s not his fault he doesn’t know how to deal with lobs would be a bit much. But he is a friend and you want to get past this.
I do like indirectly referring to his outbursts as a lack of “mental toughness”. “If we hit a bad streak let’s try to keep our mental toughness and not show the other team our weakness by beating our rackets and yelling”

As far as what he wants to do versus what he needs to do I think you just say “sure I understand but if your game shuts down as soon as someone lobs your just not going to be competitive playing at 3.5.” Maybe you can play some combo leagues with him.

Totally. If he wasn't a good friend of mine, I wouldn't work so hard to make it work. On the flipside, its hard to tell a good friend about something like mental toughness because he could totally take that personal.

shifty
if you insist on playing doubles with this "headcase" i would give you "kudos" and say you are a very tolerant person.
you can mention to him that it bothers you and is very distracting when he starts to "go off" but typically
saying anything will probably make it worse.
z

Mentioned. He said that its necessary for him to dig himself out of the hole and snap out of it. All i can do is shrug it off. I'm curious to know if say, the other team loses one day, would they grievance him for those actions? Obviously opponents don't care, so long as they win.

if 3.5 players have the ability to target a specific player then you might not be doing enough with the balls you're hitting. even if you are the stronger there is still plenty of room to improve.

Definitely agree. I remember that day i tried to hit a little harder to maybe set him up for a look, but it was pretty much the same boat as Alex (increased UE rate). Need to get more crafty, throw in some lobs ourselves or something.