My ground strokes and serves

S

skuludo

Professional
Part 1 of hitting session http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6jJSA6Yb0c
Part 2 of hitting session http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7xkR_n5yPQ
Part 3 of hitting session http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDdfuVdqvmc
Flat serve (front) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17Ac-K6Hkaw
Flat serve (rear) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bOvxa_qaKU
Flat serve angle higher (rear) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQdK0vxqCZM
Topspin serve (rear) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6VegxGRH3c
Flat serve (side) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYsxRZ-4OIk


Extras/extrats from main video:
Radar gun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuiV-dPfhus

Running forehand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZY0_lRphWc

String of forehands http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JAhpgb1dIs


Asphalt courts: Some of the serves I hit were really painful because when I take the racket back the racket would slap my tossing hands knuckle (really hurts). This mysterious habit suddenly appeared and through off my timing when I delibratly tried to avoid my left hand getting hit when I take the racket back. By the time camera changed to flat serve higher view angle I overcame the habit compltly.

One serve made it to 102 MPH but it went into the net. That happened when I served on the ad side. (Consecutive serves that went into the net.)

What I've noticed in my serve is the racket is not parallel to my body when I throw the racket. Only one of the serves I hit the racket was parallel to my body and that is in the topspin serve video.

Racket used in ground stroke video was a I Radical OS at 13.6oz. Didn't like it. Too heavy. When I played with it it felt like it had the power of the Pure Drive Plus yet had the control of my RD Ti 70 mid. Unfortunly it felt dead on serves like the RD Ti 70. For some reason my serving percentage goes up when I use the Liquid Metal Radical Midplus, but I don't have enough money to string it up right now. Strings are fraying and looks like it will snap.

I need help increasing my service speed.



Total run time of videos is about 32 minutes. Only first ground stroke video has normal sound. The rest of the video has messed up sound. My camcorder is damaged. There were my footage of my ground strokes, but the camera was out of focus cause it was damaged. I've figured out how to work around it, thus I managed to produce 32 minutes total of usable footage. The rest on my tape are garbage.



Updated. Front and part 3 is available.
 
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skuludo said:
Part 1 of hitting session http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6jJSA6Yb0c
Part 2 of hitting session http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7xkR_n5yPQ
Part 3 of hitting session DELAYED TILL YOUTUBE FINISHES PROCESS
Flat serve (front) DELAYED TILL YOUTUBE FINISHES PROCESS
Flat serve (rear) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bOvxa_qaKU
Flat serve angle higher (rear) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQdK0vxqCZM
Topspin serve (rear) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6VegxGRH3c
Flat serve (side) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYsxRZ-4OIk


Extras/extrats from main video:
Radar gun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuiV-dPfhus

Running forehand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZY0_lRphWc

String of forehands http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JAhpgb1dIs


Asphalt courts: Some of the serves I hit were really painful because when I take the racket back the racket would slap my tossing hands knuckle (really hurts). This mysterious habit suddenly appeared and through off my timing when I delibratly tried to avoid my left hand getting hit when I take the racket back. By the time camera changed to flat serve higher view angle I overcame the habit compltly.

One serve made it to 102 MPH but it went into the net. That happened when I served on the ad side. (Consecutive serves that went into the net.)

What I've noticed in my serve is the racket is not parallel to my body when I throw the racket. Only one of the serves I hit the racket was parallel to my body and that is in the topspin serve video.

Racket used in ground stroke video was a I Radical OS at 13.6oz. Didn't like it. Too heavy. When I played with it it felt like it had the power of the Pure Drive Plus yet had the control of my RD Ti 70 mid. Unfortunly it felt dead on serves like the RD Ti 70. For some reason my serving percentage goes up when I use the Liquid Metal Radical Midplus, but I don't have enough money to string it up right now. Strings are fraying and looks like it will snap.

I need help increasing my service speed.



Total run time of videos is about 32 minutes. Only first ground stroke video has normal sound. The rest of the video has messed up sound. My camcorder is damaged. There were my footage of my ground strokes, but the camera was out of focus cause it was damaged. I've figured out how to work around it, thus I managed to produce 32 minutes total of usable footage. The rest on my tape are garbage.
Click to expand...

Skuludo,

You are going to have to switch to a continental grip on the serve to maximize your serve. It will probably take you 2 months or more to adjust to the new grip.

Jeff
http://www.hi-techtennis.com
 
That was a eastern didn't know. I am use to the other grips. Guess I'll turn it more towards backhand side.
 
Was the grip I was using for my topspin serve eastern?

I do turn my grip leaning a bit closer to backhand side for that serve, and can use that to hit flat serves.

I can still go further if necessary.

I'll take a picture of the grip right now. As soon as I find the software for the pc camera.
 
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How long have you been playing?

IMO you are not taking the racket back and setting it right.

You want the racket hand at shoulder height, setup your body and feet way way sooner.

The serve tose is way way too short, you are trying to hit it too hard, you are not getting into a full position


You need to relax, if you are trying hard or are getting tired you are not relaxing enough.

Try to relax and let the racket/ drop of racket take care of hitting the ball, you just spin and control.

Relax, don't try hard, keep motion smooth, setup up way earlier
 
4 years of playing. Do you mean the looped takeback with the racket "head" at shoulder level and then droped down?

The serves early on were relaxed. It was relaxed until I got to the side view where I started to get tense. (The serves at the end of today.)

I think my forehand is a straight takeback right now. When I did do the loop tackback it didn't really make any difference.
 
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Grip for flat serve:

FS4.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/skuludo/FS4.jpg

FS1.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/skuludo/FS1.jpg

FS2.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/skuludo/FS2.jpg

FS3.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/skuludo/FS3.jpg
 
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Should I use the grip from the first post or second?

Or more extreme?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone else share the same opinion as jackson ville where I need to change to a loop take back where the racket starts from the shoulder and then drops down on my forehand?

One of the shots I compltly gave up on. That is why I just stood there. That was the shot I made a complete mishit on and sailed way passed the baseline. (A forehand drive turned into a shanked lob.) After I made that shot I did a lazy forehand slice and got passed.

With my current takeback it is possible for me to hit a 86mph forehand provided the ball is around shoulder level + short where I can hit down on the ball (Not consistent cause I hardly practice it.) Also it is the only time I make a straight take back at shoulder level. From ground up I can crank it into the 70s if the ball is barely moving. If I attempt to hit this shot on a medium paced ball I will over shoot the ball. Usualy a 64 mph forehand will skid right on the baseline hit off a medium paced ball for me. This shot is only inches above the net, but I can do it consistently when I am on.
 
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ok, first of all for your ground strokes, on the forehand, thats not a good takeback because even though it is a straight take back, you bring the racquet low around your feet and swing upwards. This will hurt you tremendously on the high forehands.

On the serve, the only way to increase your service speed is to get proper form. Try this, holding a continental grip, start your serve with your weight shifted forward. Shift your weight back and toss the ball while doing so. Rock back to having your weight forward and explode into the court. Do not arm the serve. You should pronate right before contact automatically, do not think about it. Hope i helped.
 
Frame by frame shot of what I currently do.
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/skuludo/Serviceside.jpg

I'll try the rocking back and forward when it stops raining here. It looks like I can get further into the trophy position as well.
Anyone able to determine the grip I use for my flat serve? Also should I turn my grip even further than the grip I use for my topspin serve?
Pictures have been posted with a close up view.

Reply to lolsmash:
I think I adjust my takeback height when appropriate. From what I see the takeback was appropriate for the height I decided to strike the ball. The only highball I received in the video I had let the ball drop back down and then I struck it for a topspin shot. I haven't encountered any problems with a high forehand so far. Balls above my shoulder height I just hit a neutral rally shot.

I would need to play someone who can hit that high with more pace than the person I am playing against to see if my forehand ticks again.

3 years ago when I did use that low tackback and on a high ball with pace I would compltly miss the forehand. A ball that goes up to my shoulder, but does not have a second arc where the ball drops will pose a problem for the low takeback. I feel that it would be impossible to start that low and hit such a ball. However, I do not screw up on this shot because I've hit my swinging volleys and managed to land the ball in when someone hits the ball out in practice. I believe this is the concern you were talking about with that low tackback.



The part where the other guy says, "Yeah, hit to my back hand." where I fired my forehand inside out and never made it over, I think I made a concious effort to take the racket higher. If I remember correctly I think I took the racket too high for that shot and couldn't get enough lift to fire the ball over is what I had felt when I made that unforced error.
 
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My serve seems to resemble Rafael Nadal's takeback. Just that I am holding the wrong grip and did not go further back into the trophy position. I did try pushing my takeback further using my topspin grip (continental) along with the rocking back and forth motion and it felt I managed to store more energy for release.

I taped my self doing this and this time it looks like my racket is parallel to my body in the throwing position.

I need to wait till the weather clears up to try doing this and hit a tennis ball.

My serve http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/skuludo/Serviceside.jpg

Anyone else see the resemblence? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHB-kYtU_YI
 
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I didn't purposly choose to model mine after Nadals, but the take back came out that way.

At the moment when I pulled the racket back further with Nadal's takeback I can store more energy compared to the one where you loop the racket downwards and up into the trophy position.

One more thing I've noticed is my shoulder becomes really steep similar to what Jeff recommends. But I'll have to change the way I toss the ball in order to get it out in front and not right on my head. Currently my palm is facing downwards towards the ground. I noticed that it is a lot easier to toss the ball with the palm facing sideways in that position.

I tried looping the racket style with a contiental and my serve was in between 60s and 70s. Max was 85 mph. Also I achieved the same speed using a eastern forehand grip too. I was only on court for about a hour and then it started to rain. I needed more time to practice.

Vancouver is forcasted to rain another whole week or 2.
 
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i'm coming to vancouver this xmas for my older brother's wedding. how cold does it get there, if at all? I've been playing indoors cuz there's so much snow here.
 
It is pretty warm compared to other parts of Canada because it is next to the ocean. And I mean really close. The coldest it's going to get here is probly a -3 or -5 degrees celcis.

Right now from time to time it gets to 13 degrees celcius. It is starting to drop though. Right now it is hovering at around 6-8 degrees celcuis. It is still warm enough for me to wear a t-shirt outside and play. (Even at -5 I still play with t-shirt.)

It probly won't snow in January or December.
 
boojay said:
i'm coming to vancouver this xmas for my older brother's wedding. how cold does it get there, if at all? I've been playing indoors cuz there's so much snow here.
Click to expand...

It'll be hard to play outdoors around christmas. The weather usually refuses to cooperate. Sometimes it'll be so so weather but the courts might not dry enough in between rain spurts. It is mostly rain here with the occasional snowfall, but like skuludo said its usually in february. We do get the occasional good weather from time to time though.

Do you know where abouts you are staying? Where are you coming from?
 
One thing I noticed which you may have also is that your tossing arm doesn't point completely upwards. This hinders your ability to get a better backscratch.
 
I knoticed that as well. I've found that I could take the racket back further into the trophy position. When I do this, I can feel a real stretch (not sure if this is storing extra energy to be uncoiled, but it feels that way.)

I think if I were to change my toss having my palm face sideways similar to what Sampras does, I can get my sholders reaching a steeper shoulder alignment (Example: "\"). Currently I toss with my palms facing towards the ground this prevents the toss from going to far forward. I've also learned that it is near impossible to get the ball out in front if I am leaning backwards. In order to get the ball in front I would need to lean forward during the rocking back and forth motion.


Vancouver:
During the winter it takes about 2 days for a tennis court to dry providing that the tennis court doesn't have craters/lumps. After 1 full day of no rain passes, on the 2nd day at around 3 to 3:30PM a good court should be compltly dry.
 
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I tried toss the ball indoors and my speed doubled. I threw a tennis ball with that motion just using arm and scored 48mph easily. <--1st try
I tried my old motion and scored 24mph.

I expect some immediate results once I hit something.

I think I ripped the rear end of my right shoulder. It appears I don't have the strength to sustain the speed. Also felt like my knuckle was shaking during the shadow swing without a racket.
 
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Hey skuludo,

a few things I noticed on your groundstrokes. Try starting with a wider base and bounce a little bit by putting the weight forwards on the balls of your feet.

The low takeback on the forehabnd is ok, but you are bending at the hips instead of bending your knees. Get down there with your knees and I say turn your body more to the side

and on the backhand I noticed a couple of times were your body was absolutely rigid and straight up. A good model is Agassi for the knee bend and the unit turn.

good luck
 
takeuchi said:
It'll be hard to play outdoors around christmas. The weather usually refuses to cooperate. Sometimes it'll be so so weather but the courts might not dry enough in between rain spurts. It is mostly rain here with the occasional snowfall, but like skuludo said its usually in february. We do get the occasional good weather from time to time though.

Do you know where abouts you are staying? Where are you coming from?
Click to expand...

coming from Saskatchewan. It was really cold here last week, in the minus 30s (Celsius) with windchill and we've been getting a sh|tload of snow!! I welcome plus degree weather in any form.
 
The highs are still 10 or 11 degrees celcius.

Maybe the problem will go away with more use or if I just hold a tennis racket instead of holding nothing.

The knuckle bursting feel will go away for sure if I am holding a racket. As for shoulder rip problem I have no idea.
 
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Stage 3 form has been formulated after stage 2 with extra pull back failed miserably.

This new form was developed after looking at pictures of Sampras. That body twisting looks more comfortable for some reason. During ball throwing tests I seemed to be able to control directions.

Instead of a tornado type turn to straighten the body to face the net it is more of a plank like flip where one part of the shoulder tips over the other. And the body moves like -\|/-

Sampras body position was the model since I don't need to coil my body to get into the position with back facing the net. All I had to do was perform the release stage. To create the illusion of hip stretch in this position I simply needed to fall backwards on to my head keeping my feets on the ground. When I begin to fall on my back which will be going towards the court I can then do the cyclone smash move Ryoma does and my body will be back to facing forwards again. During the falling phase I can make an upward leg press up this means the launch will make me go in the air and forwards since I just fell down in mid air. Landing is natural human instinct, so I won't kill myself by actualy falling on the ground. Balance will be regained.

Also the tossing arm will now go all the way up no matter what. I am practicly standing backwards. To toss the ball out front I now need to toss the ball over my head like (Side view -\| [Drop phase of tossing arm now] |/-
Basicly trying to throw a basketball into the hoop standing backwards using one hand. My insurance toss.

The person named TennisMastery has inspired me to try this form as it is comptly different from what I do now.

Real results will be produced when the snow melts here and I can hit a tennis ball again. Renting indoor court will be performed when I feel impatient.


Now I await for my plan to fall in place. When that time comes, I will see if my expectations will be met.
 
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Indoors seems like a practical option no matter the occasion. $3/hr and membership is $15.

I can't join till January based on the email I received from the club.
 
skuludo said:
Indoors seems like a practical option no matter the occasion. $3/hr and membership is $15.

I can't join till January based on the email I received from the club.
Click to expand...

Are you serious??? That is the best price I've ever heard of.
 
Skuludo, I play in Vancouver. Where is this club exactly that is $15 to join and $3/hr ? Haven't been able to play since it started snowing.
 
I am serious. The site says $3/hr for the drop in sessions.

The UBC tennis club.
The student union has taken over and is now running the club. The club has lossed all its reception staff.

Also the club now has 2 sponsers. They are Tad's Sporting Goods and Impulse Sports.

With membership you get 10% off Tad's and 20% of Impulse Sports.

http://www.ubctennisclub.com/


This time I think I've unlocked the move to achieve the 100+mph goal.

Also I have tested my 2 radar guns. The Bushnell Speedster 2 passed the tuning fork test. Always within +- 1mph or exact as stated by the tuning fork.


My Speedtrac one has produced unsatisfactory results. The gun would range from 70mph - 64mph with my 65 mph x band tuning fork. I am now waiting for another x band tuning fork straight from the creators of Speedtrac to perform the final test.
The X band tuning fork I purchased was from the aution site and it is used. My second x band tuning fork will be straight from the Speedtrac manufacturer.
I will also try using different batteries to see the result.
 
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Thanks for the info. I had a look and it appears that all the drop in times ($3/hr) are during work hours for me so I can't take advantage unless I take days off.

Also, about your serves/groundstrokes. What pretty much everyone said is correct. I noticed that you're "arming" the ball when you're serving especially when trying to hit it flat. I forget which thread but it mentions that you should try to pretend you're "throwing your racquet" upwards at the ball instead of trying to "arm" it. However, moving to a continental grip will probably help that. I use to get bad shoulder/arm pain also when I use to "arm" the ball. What helped me a lot was to think that I was reaching up towards the ball instead of concentrating on hitting it forward for speed.
 
I don't know how to throw a ball. My tennis ball throws only clock at around 20-30 mph range. Increased stretch throw gives me a low 30-40.

New service ball throw style gives me 40-50mph. This style of throwing looks like John McEnroes service stance and maybe motion. I face backwards and then do the twist and throw forwards. I haven't played around with it long enough to see if I can throw a tennis ball faster than 50mph.

Changing my grip to continental alone will not fix anything. It is a starting point though.
The next part is figuring out how to square my racket with the ball. If I fail to pronate enough I am going to end up slicing the ball. This happened last month when I played with this grip for 3 days before it started snowing.
 
I only achieved the same speed with the new motion. Balls are flying at the same speed.
I have problems with the new toss mainly due to lack of not serving enough.
Ball dropped on my head once and there were times I competely missed the ball.

Highest speed was 94mph.
 
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Made a couple of new changes and toss is compltly different than my hypothesis.

The highest was 97mph before the ball got too wet.

Under wet conditions the flat serve goes in almost every time. The ball toss just needs to be in the right place is the only requirement for the serve to go in.
Placement control is ok. I can finally hit inside the service box down the T on the ad side.
 
skuludo said:
Grip for flat serve:

FS4.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/skuludo/FS4.jpg

FS1.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/skuludo/FS1.jpg

FS2.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/skuludo/FS2.jpg

FS3.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/skuludo/FS3.jpg
Click to expand...

Isn't this an eastern forehand? And for your normal forehand, isn't that semi-western?

I think you should get more kneebend instead of bending at the hips. =\ I don't know what the difference is, but the coach in the school that I go to says so....
 
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My forehand grip is actualy eastern. Just a more extreme version of that old service grip. I think it might be the same as Sampras's grip.


The knee bend issue, could it be that you've applied this idea on the wrong situation?

That low forehand I hit was done by spreading my legs further apart, so I wouldn't need to bend as much to reach lower. From there I bend at the hips.

I do notice that I stand pretty upright. <-- Here lies the lack of knee bend.
Could it be that your coach was saying that I am not in the ready position?



I would also like to know the disadvantage of my ready position.

I am now using that topspin service grip to hit my first serves. I think it is the continental grip. So far no one has confirmed what that topspin grip really is. Most of my posts on what that grip is has been dodged in this thread.
 
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skuludo said:
My forehand grip is actualy eastern. Just a more extreme version of that old service grip. I think it might be the same as Sampras's grip.


The knee bend issue, could it be that you've applied this idea on the wrong situation?

That low forehand I hit was done by spreading my legs further apart, so I wouldn't need to bend as much to reach lower. From there I bend at the hips.

I do notice that I stand pretty upright. <-- Here lies the lack of knee bend.
Could it be that your coach was saying that I am not in the ready position?



I would also like to know the disadvantage of my ready position.

I am now using that topspin service grip to hit my first serves. I think it is the continental grip. So far no one has confirmed what that topspin grip really is. Most of my posts on what that grip is has been dodged in this thread.
Click to expand...

I think that your upper body is straight, but not perpendicular to the ground. My school's coach says that the upper body should be perpendicular to the ground (I don't know why though) during hitting forehands or backhands.

I don't think that there's a topspin grip, but I do know that there are different grips that give you different natural amounts of topspin.

Btw, Hammer Grip is the Continental Grip right?
 
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