My match analysis

FiReFTW

Legend
Very interesting day I had today.

My coach decided that I should play a junior kid, he is 12 years old and extremely talented, my coach's friend whos also a coach is in charge of his development.. so they both said they wanted to do a match with us to see if we can train in the winter and also so they can do a match analysis and see what the weakest points in our games are and also statistics of the match.

Some very cool interesting things I learned from this

I lost the match 7:6 6:4, it was quite tight tho and quite equal overall, it was up and down the whole match from both of us.

The statistics were very interesting tho

I made 15 double faults (I knew I made quite a few but it did not seem like I made this many, I thought more like 8-10)
My 1st serve % was decent in set1, in set2 it was quite bad, I thought overall at the end it was around 50-60%, but to my suprize it was 46% in the match, which is very low, much too low.
I hit 11 winners but made quite alot of unforced errors, I think 40 something

It was very cool hearing the thoughts from both my coach and his coach tho.

We both play good, have very good variety of play and good technique and all, but both have alot of the same problems during play, and alot of them are common for players without a ton of mileage and matches behind them.
His coach actually said an interesting thing, that you need tons of matches and that he tells all his juniors to completely forget about the first 10 tournaments they play.

Some of the things that im (well both of us) having issues with during point play because I know you guys are interested:

1.Forcing the serve too much, when its clicking its good but when it starts to not go in theres no adjustment of more spin and a bit less pace to get the feel back, but just keep swinging at it the same as always even in a slump, need to learn to adjust more depending on how its feeling if its hot or cold

2.Lack of patience during points, we both want to finish points and go for winners too often, we need alot more build up play and keeping the ball in play, we attacked some good attackable balls but we also went for too aggressive shots from not so good positions many times

3.Get tight on 2nd serve often, specially when theres a crucial point, they could see the hand shortening and getting very tight, but its normal and will improve with more play

4.Very bad movement backwards on deep very high balls, and often get caught in a bad spacing or position on these balls (I already know I struggle with this)

5.We both tend to be dead on our feet after hitting a very good aggressive shot or a very good serve because it already looks like a won point, a winner or ace or whatever, and we almost stop and then when the ball gets returned we get caught off guard and suprized and flat footed
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
Yes you need to bring that unforced error count down. 40 is way too high.

I started off as a super aggressive player and quickly learned that I couldn't go for it on every shot.

I have what I call a 70%-shot during the rally, and I only go for it when I have the right opportunity and even that is with spin. In the meantime I focus on neutralisation and placement. Works for me very well.
 

sredna42

Hall of Fame
Very interesting day I had today.

My coach decided that I should play a junior kid, he is 12 years old and extremely talented, my coach's friend whos also a coach is in charge of his development.. so they both said they wanted to do a match with us to see if we can train in the winter and also so they can do a match analysis and see what the weakest points in our games are and also statistics of the match.

Some very cool interesting things I learned from this

I lost the match 7:6 6:4, it was quite tight tho and quite equal overall, it was up and down the whole match from both of us.

The statistics were very interesting tho

I made 15 double faults (I knew I made quite a few but it did not seem like I made this many, I thought more like 8-10)
My 1st serve % was decent in set1, in set2 it was quite bad, I thought overall at the end it was around 50-60%, but to my suprize it was 46% in the match, which is very low, much too low.
I hit 11 winners but made quite alot of unforced errors, I think 40 something

It was very cool hearing the thoughts from both my coach and his coach tho.

We both play good, have very good variety of play and good technique and all, but both have alot of the same problems during play, and alot of them are common for players without a ton of mileage and matches behind them.
His coach actually said an interesting thing, that you need tons of matches and that he tells all his juniors to completely forget about the first 10 tournaments they play.

Some of the things that im (well both of us) having issues with during point play because I know you guys are interested:

1.Forcing the serve too much, when its clicking its good but when it starts to not go in theres no adjustment of more spin and a bit less pace to get the feel back, but just keep swinging at it the same as always even in a slump, need to learn to adjust more depending on how its feeling if its hot or cold

2.Lack of patience during points, we both want to finish points and go for winners too often, we need alot more build up play and keeping the ball in play, we attacked some good attackable balls but we also went for too aggressive shots from not so good positions many times

3.Get tight on 2nd serve often, specially when theres a crucial point, they could see the hand shortening and getting very tight, but its normal and will improve with more play

4.Very bad movement backwards on deep very high balls, and often get caught in a bad spacing or position on these balls (I already know I struggle with this)

5.We both tend to be dead on our feet after hitting a very good aggressive shot or a very good serve because it already looks like a won point, a winner or ace or whatever, and we almost stop and then when the ball gets returned we get caught off guard and suprized and flat footed
Good stuff mate, THIS is one improves IMO, through endless practice sets and matches that you and/or your coach assess objectively.
Endless rallying, and endless obsession over technique is a dead end that I wasted way too long stagnating in. Even the shot tolerance you develop rallying is kinda false, as it is stripped of that reality warping match pressure that makes even a simple shot seem hard
 

FiReFTW

Legend
It really is funny tho how you can play so much better against a active ball with lots of spin and pace compared with weak bunty slow junky whatever balls, is tennis the only sport where you can play much better against stronger strokes than against slow no pace weird spin ones.. i swear il never understand this even tho I get why and all.
 

Znak

Professional
Are you actively keeping these numbers in your head while you play or is someone helping you keep track?
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
It really is funny tho how you can play so much better against a active ball with lots of spin and pace compared with weak bunty slow junky whatever balls, is tennis the only sport where you can play much better against stronger strokes than against slow no pace weird spin ones.. i swear il never understand this even tho I get why and all.
Baseball ... many batters want the fastball over the plate.

My 2hbh has about as much experience as you do ... and it doesn't like ros against crafty old guy no pace serves. o_O

I think you have played long enough now that it's time for low UE and low double fault habits. Half of winning is managing aggression with low UE ... whatever that level is for each of us. I think you asked once what percentage of max do each of us hit our ground strokes. I was thinking about it, and my best guess ... including tournament singles years would be approx 50% on avg rally ball, and occasional 75% on finishing shot when opening was there. Like Nav said ... most rec matches are lost by one player UEs rather than won by a player with more offense. What are you using for a second serve. You have to have a rarely miss safe 2nd serve ... for me it's a safe loopy kicker. In your case ... you would get to use your good first serve aggressively if you were always covered with 2nd serve. 40% big first serve getting some free points, backed with a never double fault 2nd works. If someone rarely gets a freebie with first serve, then that person should try and get first serve in at a higher percent ... closer to lines maybe, imo.

No doubt one wants to avoid being stuck in "too conservative" mode ... but no one wins at any level with high UE ... not even Isner.
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
It really is funny tho how you can play so much better against a active ball with lots of spin and pace compared with weak bunty slow junky whatever balls, is tennis the only sport where you can play much better against stronger strokes than against slow no pace weird spin ones.. i swear il never understand this even tho I get why and all.
Against no pace balls, you think you have more time. Move faster to get to the ball.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Against no pace balls, you think you have more time. Move faster to get to the ball.
You have to generate your own pace ... counterpunching is easier off pace for many/most. No pace tends to be out of strike zone. Movement (as you said) to try and take it in the strike zone works sometimes, like early off the bounce before it gets high ... but not always ... like off-pace low slice.

Maybe drop feeds is the best drill ever invented for pushers. :p
 

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
You have to generate your own pace ... counterpunching is easier off pace for many/most. No pace tends to be out of strike zone. Movement (as you said) to try and take it in the strike zone works sometimes, like early off the bounce before it gets high ... but not always ... like off-pace low slice.

Maybe drop feeds is the best drill ever invented for pushers. :p
for low slice, you have to get low in addition. it sucks. u get tired really quickly.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
for low slice, you have to get low in addition. it sucks. u get tired really quickly.
Yes ... and it's a beautiful thing against a pusher. Mr Pusher, want to play that game, let me introduce you to Mr Slice to opposite corners and to Mr Drop Shot ... and Mr Lob on that great get to Mr Drop Shot. :p Nothing more satisfying than a pusher doing road work. The pusher with better/more targets wins.

Constant baseline topspin that gets up high can wear you out also. One of my good friends had good topspin (heavy-adjacent) on both wings, and by 3rd set in the heat it took it's toll.
 

GeoffHYL

Professional
Yeah, cut down on the UE's and you should easily beat this opponent. I have really focused on keeping my UE's low recently. I play doubles, so I don't get as many strokes in a set compared to playing singles, but I kept track one set and had something like 4 UE's and 10-12 clean winners. That doesn't happen all the time, but when my mental focus is on it means more winners than UE's. I hit for placement, not power. I hit a lot of deep balls, which give me more time to react to the opponents shot.
 
Get more first serves in, meaning do two 2nd serves if you must. This will develop your second serve to make it reliable, which it needs to be especially when you get tight.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Get more first serves in, meaning do two 2nd serves if you must. This will develop your second serve to make it reliable, which it needs to be especially when you get tight.
not necessarily.
It is of course one method, and I was taught it as a kid.

Nevertheless, after having several big breaks without playing, I now struggle to keep consistency in serve variation.
Meaning, if I only serve second serve, to the same spot, yeah, sure, I'll get few DF, as one of the two will land there.
But as soon as I try to variate, hit a proper first serve, or try to play with directions, all of a sudden my DF rate increases.
Why? because different serves require different nuances.
So, I try to practice precisely this, go to the tennis court, with someone willing to practice return, or alone, and just hit 1st serve + 2nd serve. Kind of try to build the automatism, so that I don't have to think, rather just execute on instinct during match.
Then take it to the matches.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Get more first serves in, meaning do two 2nd serves if you must. This will develop your second serve to make it reliable, which it needs to be especially when you get tight.
lol ... that actually could work. Fire wants to hit that big 1st serve, so he would nail down the 2nd quickly to get the 1st out of the penalty box. 8-B(y)

No 1st serve for you little man :p

 

FiReFTW

Legend
Did analysis today too, won 6:2 6:4, 1st serve % was 54%, which is better than last time at least haha. Made 11 double faults, again better than yesterday but still baaaaad.

One game was interesting, was going for more spin on my 1st serve and missed all 3 serves... then I went for 2 bigger serves and made both lol, one ace and one forced error.

I don't know exact stats now but making some calculations 18 total games, so 9 service games.. taking an average of 6 serves per service game that means 54 total 1st serves, and I hit around 29 of these in play while missing 25.. and out of 25 2nd serves made 14 and made 11 double faults.. very interesting, can't wait to have a more reliable 2nd serve under match pressure conditions (in practice I can hit 30 2nd serves and miss maybe 3 lol.
 
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