My Meniscus Surgery Experience

Wow its been 27 days! I figured by this point my knees would be totally back to normal and feel great. That is not the case but I continue to make progress and try not to get down. As stated previously the left knee, where the biggest original problem was, is lagging behind the right. I feel I could do just about anything on the right one and the left is about 75%.

Tuesday, two days ago, was my first time on a tennis court in about six weeks. I felt like it was a few days to soon but things went well. I hit with a friend for about 45 minutes and then played two sets of doubles. I was very careful and did not extend myself at all. Needless to say many balls were not reached. I certainly could not play a match at this point. As soon as I got home I iced both knees down.

The next morning my right knee was fine but the left one was very stiff under the kneecap. I had to do quite a bit of stretching to make it feel better that morning. Wednesday night I went to the "Y" and spent 60+ minutes on the cycle going fairly hard (12/20) doing random hills. The back of the left knee continues to be a worry as it is not "right".

I'll hit the courts again this weekend and see how it goes.

woondHealing_healing_phases.jpg


The initial stages of healing go fairly fast.

But the maturation and remodeling phase take many months.

It is humbling that there is no drug/treatment that can make healing go faster than it did in pre-historic times.

Whoever develops it will have the first trillion dollar drug/treatment.


In any event, thanks for posting your progress, and I hope you feel "all better" soon.
 
woondHealing_healing_phases.jpg


The initial stages of healing go fairly fast.

But the maturation and remodeling phase take many months.

It is humbling that there is no drug/treatment that can make healing go faster than it did in pre-historic times.

Whoever develops it will have the first trillion dollar drug/treatment.


In any event, thanks for posting your progress, and I hope you feel "all better" soon.

VERY interesting chart Charlie. Thanks. Puts things in prospective.
 
Saturday (Day 29)

Went to the Y again last night and worked really hard on stationary bike (75 mins 12/20 random hills). Also did quite a bit of stretching. This early afternoon my right knee feels almost normal and my left knee feels about as good as it has since the surgery.

One positive thing I've noticed about the right knee is that if I put my hands over the knee and move my leg up and down the gravelly soft crunchy sound and feeling that I've had in the past is not as bad. It was never a painful thing just got my attention from time to time. Remember this is the first time in my life my knees have ever warranted any attention.

Over the past week my left knee has "caught" a few times. Nothing serious its just when I move it something inside seems to tighten up for a second and then loosen up. No severe pain associated with this.

I plan on taking it pretty easy this weekend. No tennis with perhaps the exception of hitting a while with my ball machine while standing in a fairly stationary position.
 
It's a good thread Red, but I'll add a little warning here...

Don't do anything dumb.

You shouldn't be hitting on a court yet, no matter what 'recover rates' are waved in front of you.

I'm just saying, I would hate to see the thread go from a good ledger of recovery to a sad story - and just toting around a ball machine to hit could end it for you. Listen to someone who has had fair share of surgery and made the mistakes; getting hurt again just because you were not patient is *a lot* more painful than however you got hurt the first time.
 
It's a good thread Red, but I'll add a little warning here...

So how do you judge when you are "TRULY" ready? I actually hit with a good friend today for about an hour. There was a little pain and stiffness but no problems. I welcome any feedback regarding time lines.
 
So how do you judge when you are "TRULY" ready?

Hey Red...

Don't get me wrong, I think you are doing great; if you search my .sig you'll know I have had to 'walk the walk' - and I feel lucky too. Surgery is a crapshoot; lots of times it goes well; sometimes it doesn't - lots of reasons for the 'why's' on both sides (as well as dumb luck). But that's why I weighed in with my little warning - you don't even know how great you are doing...

Just be patient. Relax. If on 5/12 you say "Wow its been 27 days! I figured by this point my knees would be totally back to normal and feel great. That is not the case but I continue to make progress and try not to get down..." - 4 days ago - then you are NOT READY. Period.

Read, take it easy - just do something else than stress you knees and tack on a few more more weeks of R&R. Read what Cindy said or any of the bizillion others 'knee recovery' stories in this forum say; build muscle strength in your legs, work on lateral movement but titrate into it naturally, slowly, etc. - if you have a PT bud talk to him/her...

As someone a lot more patient and wiser than me once told me - 'your injury has everything to teach you'.
 
Tuesday Morning (Day 32)

Thanks waves! I'll continue to be cautious. I feel like I've really held myself back but perhaps I need to be even more conservative. I certainly don't want to reinjure myself. Got to avoid the "no pain, no gain" mantra, which I was raised in sports with.

I plan on hitting today to see where I'm at. I'm putting pressure on myself because my 3.5 team is undefeated this Spring by has tough matches up coming and I'm one of the top players. My 4.0 team can do fine without me as I'm one of the weaker players. I'll probably push my return back to matches yet another week and not play this weekend.

Each workout at the "Y" is getting better and I'm doing more. Yet there has yet to be a day that I wake up and don't have stiffness in the front of my knees and the occasional catch as I start moving around.
 
RedWeb-Thanks so much for continuing to walk us through your progress.

Because everyone's body reacts a little differently to these things I just wanted to share one quick tidbit I found after my second meniscus surgery (both my lateral and medial have been removed in my right knee).

One thing I found in relation to knee pain was running. I was always in the habit of running heel toe for exercise well after the recovery phase and noticed a discernible pain in my knee. What I found was if I kept on the balls of my feet (like a sprinter, and when I'm on the tennis court), the knee responded very favorably.

It's been 12 years since and I have yet to have the pain return with continual gym work to keep my core, calves, quads and gluts in shape to keep the pressure off the joint.

That being said, I'm only 33 so I had my youth to help with the recovery process too.
 
So how do you judge when you are "TRULY" ready? I actually hit with a good friend today for about an hour. There was a little pain and stiffness but no problems. I welcome any feedback regarding time lines.

Everybody has to make this decision for themselves.

But there is reason for concern, Redweb. Pain? *Catching?* That is so not good.

And then you mention you are thinking of launching yourself into competitive 3.5 tennis soon. Ho boy.

I remember quite vividly my return to tennis after my surgery. It was a clinic. The drill was the familiar one where you run to the net, tap it with your racket, and then position for an overhead, then repeat that a few times. As I went back for one of the overheads, my knee hyperextended backward. Not a lot. Just a little. Just a tweak. Certainly enough to get my attention.

But why did it hyperextend? The reason was lack of muscle strength. It was just a drill, nothing was on the line, I was free to let the ball go if the overhead was too challenging. And still I tweaked it.

If you go play for your 3.5 team, you won't have the freedom to just ease up.

I agree that your recovery is going well. You should be *thrilled* with your progress. I just don't know if it is realistic to think you can be the go-to guy on your 3.5 team.

You know, I hurt my other knee about four weeks before the team I captain went to Districts. I had a small meniscus tear, a bone bruise and a stress fracture. I wanted to play. I could have played, although it would have hurt a lot. I benched myself. It was really hard to watch my teammates play (and lose!) close matches when I thought I could contribute.

Looking back on it, I am really glad I chose not to take the risk of playing.
 
Thursday (Day 34)

Ok, I'm backing off and not playing a match until at least June 4th. I will continue my rehab and strengthing work. I played (3 set of doubles) Tuesday and it went better than last week but my knees felt worse Wednesday morning. After reading posts from Cindy, Sphinx and Waves I think a little caution would not hurt.

All this makes me think about the day I can't play anymore. I guess how far away that is depends mostly upon luck. I also think as time passes your game has to naturally change and move from power and quickness to strategy and variation.

One thing you realize when your movement is curtailed (in my case because I'm trying to be cautious and because I still hurt some) is that you often have a lot more time to hit the ball than you think. How often do you jamb yourself because you over react to a shot?

Cindy is right that I'll hold back in practice match but when the outcome counts I might stretch myself beyond the point I should.
 
Thank you for starting this thread. I am horrified to hear about your (and more so about a 16 and 37 yrs.old) having such procedures!!!! You are really brave. I wish you all the very best and a full recovery!!!!!
 
Thank you for starting this thread... I am horrified to hear about your (and more so about a 16 and 37 yrs.old) having such procedures!!!! You are really brave. I wish you all the very best and a full recovery!!!!!

Eliza, thank you for your heartfelt comments. It probably reads worse than it really is. Don't think I'm brave, just like to be able to run and play tennis and not be in pain. The procedure really was not that bad. I go to the doctor tomorrow morning to see how I'm doing. I'm going to be on his case about my continued concern about the pain in the back of my left knee and the stiffness I still have. I'll post an update concerning what he has to say.
 
Please do, I think you are doing a great service to all players, who will be more aware. I have been diagnosed with PF in the right foot, and to me was a tragedy.
NOTHING compared to have your knees drilled!!!!!
I hope you will be 100% again, on court as new!!!
 
Friday (Day 35)

I just got back from the doctor and wanted to post new information before some of it slipped my mind. There was a lot discussed so forgive the length of this post.

He was surprised by the swelling still in my knees, but he said that level was not totally unheard of. The statement "you'll be able to do whatever you feel comfortable doing in four weeks" has now changed to "lets give it another six weeks of rehab and see where we are". I was not happy and we discussed what I had done since the surgery.

He agreed that I had not done anything crazy but I should have more focus on stationary bike work. He was fine with the rehab exercises I was doing and said I would not benefit from working with a physical therapist but he was welling to refer me. I declined the referral. He said I should continue to avoid squats, lunges, and any weight work. We think the problem might be I can tolerate pain pretty well in my activities but that activity is causing the swelling.

Overall I'm happy with my right knee. The only problem is the entry point at the top outside. This did not heal as cleanly as the others and it causes the most pain. All the entry points hurt somewhat if I rub them hard with my fingers. There is a lump under the skin and the tendons/muscles that he "drilled" though are still sensative and therein lies the problem. He said he could give me a shot that would help if I wanted. I declined. He said this will problem improve over time and should be non-existent within 3 months. Once again, I'm thinking "what happened to 4 weeks!?". ROM on the right knee is great and the grating crunchy sounds/feelings when I move the knee are pretty much gone.

The left knee, where more work was done, also has good ROM. The quads have lost more strength on left than right. He said this was normal and more bike work would help strengthen them. He said to avoid the things I mentioned earlier and not to do things like weighted leg curls that would normally strengthen quads. He said the greater stiffness that I have experienced is to be expected and some catching was normal. We would both be concerned if catching occurred after going through some motion early in the day, and that is not the case. Catching pretty much is a first thing in the morning thing. Once again he said the stiffness would go away over time.

We discussed the pain in the back of left leg/knee and he did not seem to concerned. He said it was normal for things not to seem just right for sometime. He said something about my body/nerves/mind still trying to get things back to normal and I would get there. So these issue is also in the "we'll worry about it in six weeks" category.

He once again stated that both my knees were sound and in good shape and that the chances of me hurting them again were not greater than if I had not had any problems to start with. He did say that "excessive" physical activities would continue to cause swelling and delay recovery. He suggested that I start doing ice rubs with dixie cup popsicles and I will as I've done this often in the past with other issues. He said it would be hard to ice to frequently but avoid longer single periods over 15-20 minutes. The goal is to increase blood flow to the area to help clean things out.

One thing that we had discussed in the past was doing hyaluronic acid injections. This is something he does with his knees and he feels it might benefit me. So we tentatively have that scheduled for next week as they have to see if my insurance covers it. I've included a couple of links below with more information in case anyone is interested. If anyone has had this done I'd be interesting in how it went.

So at this point I plan for another of week of limited activity and sitting my butt on the stationary bike at the "Y" each day. I also have some workout bands/tubes that I've started to use more frequently. The community pool opens tomorrow and I'm might add a little swimming to mix. I'll reevaluate the tennis situation early next week. I've already dropped points having been unable to defend my results at the first major zone of the spring/summer season and its just killing me missing the majority of the team spring season.

hyaluronic acid injections links:
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000801/565.html
http://osteoarthritis.about.com/od/osteoarthritistreatments/f/visco_hip.htm
http://www.webmd.com/osteoarthritis/osteoarthritis-of-the-knee-hyaluronic-acid-joint-injections
 
I've never heard an orthopedist say anything like "the chances of me hurting them again are not greater than if I had not had any problems to start with," and I've asked some of the best about problems like yours, at Hosptial for Special Surgery, and Hospital for Joint Diseases, in New York. If things healed with the strength of their original condition, we wouldn't see all the recurring incisional hernias that show up in hospitals all the time.
 
RedWeb, do not worry about lenght. I would have probably recorded all the conversation with this doc, just in case.
I am impressed that you can even stay on a bike!!
Again, I send positive energy to you!!!
 
Now, I am just a layperson, so it is hard for me to criticize your doctor. I do disagree strongly on one point.

I think you should consider physical therapy. PT can evaluate your knees for muscle imbalance and poor tracking. The PT can also help you get over the hump, where exercise/strengthening of the quads brings on swelling, which undermines strength. You could do 4-6 weeks and then decide if it is helping. I don't know what would have happened had my PT not figured me out.

Lastly, I love this part of your post:

Once again, I'm thinking "what happened to 4 weeks!?".

Man, if anything sums up how I felt about my recover, that's it. All the empty promises of a speedy recovery . . . sheez.
 
Thursday (Day 41)

Just got back from 4.0 practice. Moved better this evening that I have since surgery. I played doubles for 2.5 hours without any extended break. Starting to get to balls that would of been impossible a week ago. As of right now I plan on playing in a competitive doubles match in 9 days.

Going tomorrow to have my knee injections (hyaluronic acid) done. These shots are ridiculously expense but luckily insurance is picking up 90% of cost. I will get a series of three injections in each knee about a week apart.

Have been doing a lot more icing than before and that seems to of helped greatly. I highly recommend that anyone going through this ice as much as they can. I don't think you can overdo the frequency of icing, you can overdue the length (don't want to freeze tissue).

I'm up to 90 minutes on stationary bike. My butt is just about as sore as my legs now after a session. I'm meeting with another physical therapist this weekend to get some more exercises to do. Have not done any running or weight training yet and don't plan on doing that anytime soon. Have been doing some resistance band and tube training. I'll let you know of any new exercises I pick up or comments from the PT.

My left knee is still weak but I'm not waking up with as much soreness as in the past. My right knee is almost back to 100%. I'd say my left one is 80%.

Things are going well. :)

Fingers crossed.
 
Sunday (Day 44)

Ok, I admit it. I should of gone to a serious professional physical therapist before now. The last week has been great! This girl has only shown me a handful of exercises that I did not know but they have made a big difference. They mainly address isolating the knee and focus directly on the trouble areas. She also has such a positive attitude that you can't help but feel better just spending time with her.

Additionally she recognized that my left quad was not firing correctly and gave me ways to help deal with that. She also showed me how to massage my incisions to help get rid of the scar tissue that was forming under the skin. It hurts but after only a few days I can already see/feel a difference.

So, for any one who will be going through this... make sure you have a good solid plan, implemented by someone who knows what they are doing, before you go under the knife.

I'm headed to the "Y" now to perform my rehab routine.

Hope everyone has a great Memorial Day. If you, or a loved one, are in the armed forces thanks for your sacrifice. If you've lost someone that served in the military accept my sincere condolences and gratitude.
 
Sunday (Day 51)

I played two matches over the weekend. The first real action I've had in about 3 months. I'm happy to report the knees held up fairly well. I won Saturday's 4.0 match in a third set 10 pt tiebreaker and lost Sunday's 3.5 match in a 10 pt tiebreaker. But I'm just happy to be back out there. My left leg is still only 80% or so and feels weak. I'm not ready to compete in singles, however I've got Ultimate tennis starting this week so I'll be out there in 7-10 days. I really need to work to strengthen the left quad.

Match wise I was really late on some shots and missed some I normally handle. I seemed to be reacting slower than I usually do, and thats pretty bad since quickness is not my forte to start with. I was definitely a little more tired on Sunday and my overall fitness really needs to improve. I need to lose about 15 lbs. But I'm starting to get a new base/foundation to work from as my legs are feeling better.

Icing is making a big difference in recovery. I'm going to start doing that regularly even after I feel 100%. I'm still managing to stay away from the painkillers and my back is doing well.

Dang! Mavs lost a close one.
 
Great job, I would not worry about winning/losing for a few weeks.....I am so glad you are back.....
 
Friday (Day 56)

Hard to believe it has been 8 weeks since the surgery...

I played a singles match this evening and quickly realized that I'm a long way from where I needed to be. I won 6-4, 6-4 but it should of been a lot easier. How quickly I've lost of sense of anticipation and how much more my knees let me know they aren't ready for the increased running, reversing of direction and lunging. I only made it to the net 3-4 times and that is 20% of what I usually do. There was no pain but the knees are saying be careful, we're here, and don't do anything crazy.

More gym work and track time needed. I can't get back to where I need to be just playing.
 
Hard to believe it has been 8 weeks since the surgery...

I played a singles match this evening and quickly realized that I'm a long way from where I needed to be. I won 6-4, 6-4 but it should of been a lot easier. How quickly I've lost of sense of anticipation and how much more my knees let me know they aren't ready for the increased running, reversing of direction and lunging. I only made it to the net 3-4 times and that is 20% of what I usually do. There was no pain but the knees are saying be careful, we're here, and don't do anything crazy.

More gym work and track time needed. I can't get back to where I need to be just playing.

Again, thanks for keeping this informative log of your comeback.

Do you have "words of wisdom" about your planned off court "gym and track time" training that also will be relatively gentle to your knees?
 
I agree with CharlieFederer. It really takes a good six months to completely recover from any surgery. I had a meniscus tear repaired a couple years ago and it took six months before I even thought about playing tennis again. I'm back to full ability with tennis and beyond previous full flexibility with yoga again, and I owe that to putting the work in and doing a ton of rehab exercises and getting most of the flexability in the knee back first. Good luck!
 
There is some controversy about the usefulness of knee arthroscopic surgery.

http://www.drmirkin.com/joints/1259.html

I have said repeatedly that surgery to trim cartilage in the knee is worthless. I have seen many patients who have had cartilage removed by surgeons for an average charge of $5000 and then they must have a knee replacement several years later. The surgeon must know about the harm he is doing because he has to see his patients for followup, when many of them require knee replacement surgery.

A report in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that knee surgery to remove cartilage is worse than doing nothing.
 
I have enjoyed reading your recovery log. Thanks for putting this together. I had meniscus surgery July 20. I have been in PT 2 times a week since the 2nd week. I have yet to hit a tennis ball. I think I am going to try about 30 minutes on the wall and serve 1 bucket this coming weekend.

By the way, my experience is very much like yours. The 1st weeks there was a lot of pain at the point on injury - medial inside area of L knee. Now, the injured area feels pretty good but there is minor soreness under the knee cap and the back of the leg has not recovered full ROM. I do PT with therapists twice a week and do my PT exercises at home every day when I do not see the therapists. Quad, calf, hips, and general area are gaining strength fast - maybe 90% of normal now.

Stick with the PT and take it easy - I am 55 yo and think rest is key.

Raul RJ, I know 4 people that recovered from meniscus surgery and resumed athletics - tennis and running - with a strong degree of success. All 4 have had many years of post meniscus athletics without issue. So, I think it does not always lead to a full knee replacement. At least, I plan on doing everything possible to avoid a knee replacement.
 
There is some controversy about the usefulness of knee arthroscopic surgery.

http://www.drmirkin.com/joints/1259.html

I have said repeatedly that surgery to trim cartilage in the knee is worthless. I have seen many patients who have had cartilage removed by surgeons for an average charge of $5000 and then they must have a knee replacement several years later. The surgeon must know about the harm he is doing because he has to see his patients for followup, when many of them require knee replacement surgery.

A report in the New England Journal of Medicine showed that knee surgery to remove cartilage is worse than doing nothing.

The link deals with mostly osteoarthritis and briefly mentions removing damaged meniscus tissue that is out of place in the knee joint.

"Patients with osteoarthritis of the knee who underwent placebo arthroscopic surgery were just as likely to report pain relief as those who received the real procedure. The researchers say their results challenge the usefulness of one of the most common surgical procedures performed for osteoarthritis of the knee."

A torn meniscus is the most common knee injury I believe. I have had two torn meniscus injuries. The right knee was operated on in 1999. The left knee was injured in 2011 and I took off for 3 months and did PT. Now both knees feel normal with 3-4 doubles per week.

Osteoarthritis involves an already chronic condition as opposed to injuries that may be more of an acute nature. I can see that if someone has considerable osteoarthritis of the knee and, in addition, injuries their meniscus that the outcomes would not be very good. On the other hand, if someone injured the meniscus of an otherwise mostly healthy knee the outcomes would be better. I think that you should distinguish between the two cases in your reply.

I believe that I see this among my tennis friends in their 60s with the results of their meniscus procedures. One had a rather complete discussion with his doctor on his state of osteoarthritis and the likely outcomes. Another did not have the informative discussion and is not pleased with the outcome - not enough pain improvement - but he is still playing tennis. Another younger player (35) is back playing tennis.

Information on the outcomes of players with varying degrees of osteoarthritis would be the way to view outcomes. Can the degree of osteoarthritis be reasonably estimated by the cartilage thickness on the X Rays?
 
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I played football at high levels and Meniscus is nothing when comparing it to ACL or any other legiment tear. It takes only a matter of a few weeks to get back from Meniscus but when I tore a legiment back than it was over for me now a hard (very hard) year or so. I wish you luck in the recovery process work hard in rehab and you will recover quickly.
 
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