My Problem on the One Hand Backhand

[JackB1]

I just watched some video of myself (will post later) and I noticed on my one hand backhand, that I still don't hit low-to-high enough and pull the racquet accross my body too much. I guess this is because I am so used to slicing, that the proper swingpath for topspin isn't ingrained yet. I really struggle with this and have to fight it on every stroke.

Any keys to getting more of a vertical swingpath and less diagnally accross the body? Should I take the racquet back higher and try and loop it more?

Any drills to help this?

thanks

 

[Torres]

Your starting position is basically incorrect, as is your body position though the stroke which leads to you having a racquet path that looks like somebody opening a door.

Get a coach to show you the correct starting position and swing path. You need to know what the correct positioning feels like first otherwise its very difficult to practise spacing and timing and use of the legs etc.

Also with the greatest respect, the way you practise is very flawed. You should never be hitting from the baseline until you've got a good feel for the fundamentals. It simply isn't progressive and at worst simply reinforces incorrect technique - IMO you're trying to do too much to soon which gets you nowhere. Somebody should be feeding you short court balls for you to first develop a feel for the correct swing mechanics and spacing.

Post a video and let's see if we can break this down.

 

[user92626]

Raise the handle higher before you pull it up and across the body.

 

[ProgressoR]

I have a problem of opening up too much, having too much top, and not having my weight going properly forward on my one hander.

I am having lessons on it, I am hitting feeds, what is working for me, is a big shoulder turn in the back swing, more than perpendicular to the net, and also dip my front shoulder a bit to discourage me opening up, and using my back arm as counter weight for the same purpose.

I am looking to hit a clean deep drive type shot, with some top, not a shot with a lot of top that bounces before the service line like it was.

Maybe one of these might click with you.

 

[LeeD]

One path towards retaining a consistent low to high swingpath on 1hbh is to start off with too much, too strong a grip, so it reinforces the need to swing low to high, just to clear the net. After that get's ingrained, you are free to wander your grip back towards eBackhand, if you so desire.
I have the same problem you have, can hit powerful topspin backhands AT TIMES, but when tentative and scared (pressure points), often sky them long by 10'. Can't say I'm going to apply MY recommendation, because I'm 64, heading downhill, and don't practice or play with any regularity. Besides, a flat hit ball, given enough time to set and prep, is more powerful for the amount of effort involved.

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

My issue has been too much low to high swing path and very high follow through, and a resulting uncomfortable jarring of the swinging shoulder.

I'm now finding that I don't even need to make an effort to go low to high, with a one handed backhand it will automatically happen, as long as you let the racket drop below the ball at the start of the swing, focus on being relaxed and comfortable through the swing and follow through.

I seem to turn (supinate) my arm on the follow through, arm reaching forward at around shoulder height, racket facing upwards, that seems to be the natural, comfortable and effective swingpath for me. If you go above shoulder height with your follow through, that may hurt your shoulder.

 

[LeeD]

That certainly pertains to my post.
The two are related.
Practice something, you learn to hit that way.
But you still gotta make the choice of which exact grip to get your game going in the right direction, and it can be SW backhand, eBackhand, or conti backhand, as everyone is different, and you get used to what you practice.

 

[Lukhas]

Just put your BH low during your backswing. Prepare your swing with your racquet pointing down and under the ball. Yes it will abbreviate your swing. But you won't be able not to hit low to high. Once you can properly just lift your racquet towards the ball you can try a full swing in the "high->low->high" manner. But now, just do "low->high" to see if it helps.

 

[Shroud]

I just watched some video of myself (will post later) and I noticed on my one hand backhand, that I still don't hit low-to-high enough and pull the racquet accross my body too much. I guess this is because I am so used to slicing, that the proper swingpath for topspin isn't ingrained yet. I really struggle with this and have to fight it on every stroke.

Any keys to getting more of a vertical swingpath and less diagnally accross the body? Should I take the racquet back higher and try and loop it more?

Any drills to help this?

thanks

I dont think that is NECESSARILY anything wrong with that swingpath! It depends on the grip and stroke.

For instance if you have that kind of swingpath on the FOREHAND you are a modern day hero. It doesnt have to be different on the backhand IME. Though certainly the modern revolution hasnt exactly caught up on the backhand side yet....

 

[JackB1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21exWcGfgk

Here is a video I made today of a few backhands.

I can keep the rally going with this stroke, but I know it's still not the ideal racquet path. Still need more low to high.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[Cheetah]

This is for your own good... your backhand is terrible. haha.

Too much arm for one thing.

 

[JackB1]

This is for your own good... your backhand is terrible. haha.

Too much arm for one thing.

Gee thanks. That was very helpful. :twisted:

 

[Shroud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l21exWcGfgk

Here is a video I made today of a few backhands.

I can keep the rally going with this stroke, but I know it's still not the ideal racquet path. Still need more low to high.


Sent from my iPhone

You will think I am nuts but please try before you dismiss. I think it is OK and can work perfectly well.

Though try changing your grip to an extreme eastern or full semiwestern. I know I know, but if you are hitting like that with an eastern you will be fine with the more extreme grips. Just change slowly if you need too.

Another thing. Instead of taking it back like a slice, just drop the racket and then swing. Like you are drawing a sword. That should get more vertical.

 

[kanulondon]

Gee thanks. That was very helpful. :twisted:

Great advice... NOT!

You're backhand doesn't look that bad(better than mine!) and will be relative to the level you play at. You've noticed an area to improve on which is good. As has been mentioned short ball drillsis wwhere I'd start

Good luck

 

[JackB1]

You will think I am nuts but please try before you dismiss. I think it is OK and can work perfectly well.

Though try changing your grip to an extreme eastern or full semiwestern. I know I know, but if you are hitting like that with an eastern you will be fine with the more extreme grips. Just change slowly if you need too.

Another thing. Instead of taking it back like a slice, just drop the racket and then swing. Like you are drawing a sword. That should get more vertical.

I haven't tried turning my grip more closed towards sw. I'll give that a try

 

[JackB1]

You will think I am nuts but please try before you dismiss. I think it is OK and can work perfectly well.

Though try changing your grip to an extreme eastern or full semiwestern. I know I know, but if you are hitting like that with an eastern you will be fine with the more extreme grips. Just change slowly if you need too.

Another thing. Instead of taking it back like a slice, just drop the racket and then swing. Like you are drawing a sword. That should get more vertical.

You mean like how this girl hits it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_H-xQOy9YU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Cheetah]

Originally Posted by Shroud
Though try changing your grip to an extreme eastern or full semiwestern. I know I know, but if you are hitting like that with an eastern you will be fine with the more extreme grips. Just change slowly if you need too.

What will changing his grip to a semi-western do for him?

 

[Shroud]

You mean like how this girl hits it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_H-xQOy9YU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

for the takeback yes where she talks about how federer gets to that point a bit behind her hip.

For the grip and swingpath not so much.

I think I might be a bit ahead of my time so good luck finding a vid. Most is still traditional backhands. But one day...

Here though is one on the grip though I would go even more extreme but this vid is a good starting point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b5Q564HJC8

 

[Gyswandir]

I have a problem of opening up too much, having too much top, and not having my weight going properly forward on my one hander.

I am having lessons on it, I am hitting feeds, what is working for me, is a big shoulder turn in the back swing, more than perpendicular to the net, and also dip my front shoulder a bit to discourage me opening up, and using my back arm as counter weight for the same purpose.

I am looking to hit a clean deep drive type shot, with some top, not a shot with a lot of top that bounces before the service line like it was.

Maybe one of these might click with you.

For you Jack, this advice should solve some of your problems. However, there are certain wrong fundamentals. First glance, I can see the following:
- you are not starting the forward part of the swing with a straight arm, rather flopping your elbow and using it as part of your shot. The elbow shouldn't be a part of the 1hbh. Fed does that motion somewhat, but he rectifies it early
- you open up in the beginning of the swing causing you to lose the body weight behind your shot and sometimes arming it, as well as the wrong swing path of low left to high right. You can incorporate some opening of the shoulders a la Wawrinka, but the timing is later and not as extreme as you do (btw how is the right knee? No pain from the stance with that rotation?)
- when you get better, you can afford to stay so high on your legs, but right now you should bend those knees more to get you a better contact point

Review these carefully, especially what he calls the power position: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jW2_dyj6QiM&feature=plpp and http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tWTPw1l3qIU&feature=relmfu

 

[BevelDevil]

- On the backswing, you need to turn your shoulders back more so that you are looking over your right shoulder. One reason why you are over-rotating is that you are under-rotating on the backswing.

- You are letting go with your left hand too soon. When you drop the racket down, don't let go until your left hand is close to your left hip and the racket is horizontal. This will also help straighten your right arm before your forward swing.

- As mentioned in my second point (and by another poster) straighten your arm out before the forward swing. It helps to think of your left hand pulling your right arm straight. I make this a separate point because it will really help. Although Federer keeps his arm really bent, most other players make their arm straight or almost straight before the forward swing.

You can practice this stuff in your living room before trying again on the courts.

 

[fuzz nation]

Already some decent observations above. I agree that your backswing ought to take your shoulders a little beyond what looks like no more than a 90 degree turn right now. Try to show the back of your right shoulder to the ball before your start forward and that will give you a little more room to get the racquet going.

It also looks like you need to alter your contact point and get your racquet going to meet the ball further out in front of you. That practice swing in your video is very good, but it's not hitting a ball, so it's smooth 'n groovy. The ones where you do hit a ball get started a little late and catch the ball too far back. That's where your swing is flatter and there's less potential for topspin there.

If you've hit a two-hander in the past, some of the components of that shot can be not-so-helpful when building a one-hander. This stroke that you're working on requires earlier weight transfer - get onto that front foot to load up your right-side leverage and then let the racquet go. A two-hander allows for a weight transfer as we swing to the ball instead of before the swing.

With the racquet attached to only your front shoulder for this one-hander, I like to think that the contact point needs to be relocated roughly the same distance forward as the space between our shoulders (the trailing arm drives the two-hander). This may not be technically accurate, but it's an image that helps me appreciate how much further ahead the hitting zone is with my one-hander.

Yes, since everything has to be timed to meet the ball further out in front of you, that means that your stroke needs to be set up and released a fraction of a second earlier than it is now. This alteration in swing timing may not come easy for you, but when you get it, your backhand is going to shred. You're putting a good swing together - it just needs to go to the right contact point at the right time. And low balls will definitely require a deeper knee bend.

Keep going!!!

 

[neverstopplaying]

Hi Jack,

The most noticeable things for me were:

Bring back your right shoulder more in preparation - the racqeut can be brought back much further (your chest is facing the opponent on many shots)
Keep your left shoulder back and bring up the arm during your shot (as you do in the practice swings)
Your contact point is a little late on many shots and as a result your hitting off your back foot. (losing power) Getting the footwork and ball height right are challenging but worth the practice

I love a 1HBH. Good luck.

 

[hawk eye]

Already a lot of good points made. If not already included, I will add:
- use your shoulder more as hinge than your elbow (Focus on swinging from the shoulder). Therefore, take your racket further back (also from the shoulder).
- Try to extend your swing more through the ball and then finish. Right now you are going across you body too early and also too far imo. Yes some top players go far with thei finish too, but for the sake of control I would stay sideways longer. This swingpath makes you open up too much.

 

[RetroSpin]

There are some good observations in these comments, but none addresses the fundamental issue. Your problem is that you have an incorrect idea of where power comes from on this stroke.

As a result, you are trying to rotate your body. You have minimal backswing. If you look at the many vids of Fed or other one hand BH players, you will see several common positions. One is the unit take back, with the racquet head at head level. The next is the power position, which you never get into. That position has the racquet behind you and almost parallel to the back fence. As another poster mentioned, both hands are still on the racquet and only release as you start forward.

The main power comes from the arm swinging forward and the racquet going from "laid back" to neutral. There is a bit of supination as well.

You want to feel your shoulder blades kind of pulling together.

The vid of the girl you posted is ok, but she skips the initial position virtually every pro uses with the racquet head up high in preparation for a loop swing. It's a swing a pro would use to return serve or when rushed. She also opens up a bit more than ideal.

 

[Power Player]

Looks like all arm and then trying to compensate with a finish that has nothing to do with the beginning of the stroke.

 

[JackB1]

first of all I wanted to tell all you guys how grateful I am for all the great responses! Some really knowledgeable people here willing to help. Thank you, Thank You!

OK, I took note of some of the things I need to correct and I just went out and hit some drop feeds, trying to correct things and I think its already looking better, thanks to you guys. The things I am keying on are as follows:

-turn shoulder more on takeback and dip it towards the ball
-straight right arm earlier in the stroke
-swing from shoulder - don't hinge elbow
-more vertical swing path - more low to high
-use more body and less arm
-bend knees more and rise up on the hit

Here are a video I just make of drophits. I think my swingpath already looks a lot better. Whoever gave me the thought of "drawing a sword" was genius I will keep working on this guys, so stay with me


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG8YFiO1cKg

 

[RetroSpin]

Jack, it's a lot better. Two nitpicks. One, on the balls you dropped, you still opened up on the follow through, particularly the last one. Also, you don't want the lower edge of the racquet getting ahead through impact, not if you want to hit topspin. Using a more SW grip will help with that.

 

[ProgressoR]

looking good, its only two shots but i felt your contact point was a bit close to your body, if its a bit further away, it lets you expand more into the stroke, if that makes sense, bit less cramped

 

[ProgressoR]

oh and i really like the shoulder turn!

 

[JackB1]

Jack, it's a lot better. Two nitpicks. One, on the balls you dropped, you still opened up on the follow through, particularly the last one. Also, you don't want the lower edge of the racquet getting ahead through impact, not if you want to hit topspin. Using a more SW grip will help with that.

Thanks. So many things to work on

That's the hard thing about the one hander. You want to use your body (not arm) but you want to stay closed and not open up on the follow through. Those 2 things seem to be fighting each other.

I will focus more on staying closed and squaring the racquet at impact.

 

[ProgressoR]

i think opening up somewhat on the follow through is in itself not a bad thing. It depends if it is a symptom of poor weight transfer or excessive arming of the ball. If the contact is solid, and using core and shoulders properly to strike, then an opening like in the vid is not bad. For me, when I open on the follow through its because of a problem before that, so i try not to open up, but its not true for everyone.

 

[BevelDevil]

Much better.

But you should be taking the racket back more behind you. Basically, your left hand should go somewhere on your left side (ribs or hip). This will pull the racket head back more and allow you to accelerate forward more while still maintaining a neutral position at contact.

Also, you should make sure you drop your rackethead completely before you let go with your left.

Here are two videos that I think are the best for the 1hbh (they are 2 parts of the same series). Pay attention to the "power position", which basically summarizes most things I'm trying to say. Compare your video with how far the pros take back the racket and drop the rackethead. A proper power position will allow you to generate a lot of power from the relatively small shoulder turn of the 1hbh.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW2_dyj6QiM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWTPw1l3qIU

 

[JackB1]

Much better.

But you should be taking the racket back more behind you. Basically, your left hand should go somewhere on your left side (ribs or hip). This will pull the racket head back more and allow you to accelerate forward more while still maintaining a neutral position at contact.

Also, you should make sure you drop your rackethead completely before you let go with your left.

Here are two videos that I think are the best for the 1hbh (they are 2 parts of the same series). Pay attention to the "power position", which basically summarizes most things I'm trying to say. Compare your video with how far the pros take back the racket and drop the rackethead. A proper power position will allow you to generate a lot of power from the relatively small shoulder turn of the 1hbh.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW2_dyj6QiM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWTPw1l3qIU

Great videos! I watched them both twice!

 

[Shroud]

What will changing his grip to a semi-western do for him?

stronger grip for that swingpath, more spin and power.

Think of it like hitting a modern forehand with a SW grip, but for the backhand.

 

[BevelDevil]

Great videos! I watched them both twice!

Awesome. Put up another video when you can get a ball machine or hitting partner again.

 

[Cheetah]

stronger grip for that swingpath, more spin and power.

Think of it like hitting a modern forehand with a SW grip, but for the backhand.

Honestly I'm not trying to be rude and no offense... and sugar coating is a pain sometimes so I'm just gona say it...

No. Do not go SW on a 1hbh. You will not get more power. What you will get is less power and a weak spinny ball with a crappy swing path and bad mechanics. And once again I mean no offense but when people give advice telling someone to go sw on a 1hbh is 99% of the time an indication the person giving advice does not know how to hit a 1hbh. If a sw gives you more power it's almost certain that that means that your fundamentals are not best and you've figured out a way to make your body get more power with a sw. With good fundamentals there's no way a sw will give you more power than an eastern grip or even a more conservative grip.

Nobody on the tour is hitting with a sw except mayyybe a couple of shorter than average wta players. Gasquet used to have an extreme grip but he no longer does and even then with his extreme grip it wasn't sw.

OP, looks better. Good job. You're on the right track so don't get too satisfied yet. Still needs some adjustments. Swing path is a little steep, weight transfer needs some work and also your contact point is not right yet and your hitting structure at the point of contact is not there. However all these points you have improved since your first video.

If you have a good 1hbh it should feel just as solid, natural, smooth and 'kinetic-y' as a good forehand. If it feels strained or jammed or slow or weak or unnatural or difficult in any way then that is a signal that some component(s) are still off and need some addressing. It should go pop when you hit a drive or even topspin and you should be able to hit dtl as well as crosscourt without any weird body contortions.

 

[LeeD]

SW grip. Is it for power, or is it for topspin every stroke?
Just like the forehand grip, do you use SW for power, or do you use SW for topspin and every shot?
WE supply the power, that's easy.
Sometimes, we need a grip that closes the racketface at impact, so we CAN swing hard and free, apply some topspin, and keep the ball IN.

 

[Shroud]

Honestly I'm not trying to be rude and no offense... and sugar coating is a pain sometimes so I'm just gona say it...

No. Do not go SW on a 1hbh. You will not get more power. What you will get is less power and a weak spinny ball with a crappy swing path and bad mechanics. And once again I mean no offense but when people give advice telling someone to go sw on a 1hbh is 99% of the time an indication the person giving advice does not know how to hit a 1hbh. If a sw gives you more power it's almost certain that that means that your fundamentals are not best and you've figured out a way to make your body get more power with a sw. With good fundamentals there's no way a sw will give you more power than an eastern grip or even a more conservative grip.

Nobody on the tour is hitting with a sw except mayyybe a couple of shorter than average wta players. Gasquet used to have an extreme grip but he no longer does and even then with his extreme grip it wasn't sw.

OP, looks better. Good job. You're on the right track so don't get too satisfied yet. Still needs some adjustments. Swing path is a little steep, weight transfer needs some work and also your contact point is not right yet and your hitting structure at the point of contact is not there. However all these points you have improved since your first video.

If you have a good 1hbh it should feel just as solid, natural, smooth and 'kinetic-y' as a good forehand. If it feels strained or jammed or slow or weak or unnatural or difficult in any way then that is a signal that some component(s) are still off and need some addressing. It should go pop when you hit a drive or even topspin and you should be able to hit dtl as well as crosscourt without any weird body contortions.

Well I was clear that I was ahead of my time- sigh. At one point everything you are saying was probably said about the sw forehand grip and the WW swingpath, etc...and we all know how that turned out.

It will just take time for the backhand evolution to catch up. It might not because of all the 2handed strokes out there and the pressure to win at young ages.

Anyhow about the power. I'll try to explain. Lets say you are righthanded and happen to have a wall a foot or 2 in front of you and your right hand happens to be in your normal backhand takeback position but you don't have a racket.

In that position, if some one pushes you forward and you can only use your right hand to stop your fall, there is only one way you put your wrist...where it is strongest and that is with the palm of the hand against the wall. If you try to stop your fall with the top of your wrist, it wont be nearly strong enough and you could hurt it. A SW puts the palm behind the racket and gives more strength so you can hit faster and with more force to create more power and spin.

I'll try another example. If you are rolling a bowlingball with only your right hand from the left side of your body, you do so with the palm, not the back of the wrist. This is what the sw does.

Slazenstein kind of explains it in his vid that I linked.

Did I mention Kelly McGillis?

 

[Shroud]

SW grip. Is it for power, or is it for topspin every stroke?
Just like the forehand grip, do you use SW for power, or do you use SW for topspin and every shot?
WE supply the power, that's easy.
Sometimes, we need a grip that closes the racketface at impact, so we CAN swing hard and free, apply some topspin, and keep the ball IN.

On the forehand I agree I think with what you are saying. The wrist position on the forehand is strong on most grips as the palm is behind the racket. But the eastern and especially the conti backhand is different as the palm is NOT behind the racket, so its not as strong.

Said another way when you do pushups (hey I heard you did 200,000 in 1919 ) do you put your palms on the ground or the back of the wrist???

The palms right because its stronger....

Anyhow on the backhand IME the sw is the grip you describe that lets me at least hit hard and free while getting spin to get it in.

 

[Cheetah]

Well I was clear that I was ahead of my time- sigh. At one point everything you are saying was probably said about the sw forehand grip and the WW swingpath, etc...and we all know how that turned out.

It will just take time for the backhand evolution to catch up. It might not because of all the 2handed strokes out there and the pressure to win at young ages.

Anyhow about the power. I'll try to explain. Lets say you are righthanded and happen to have a wall a foot or 2 in front of you and your right hand happens to be in your normal backhand takeback position but you don't have a racket.

In that position, if some one pushes you forward and you can only use your right hand to stop your fall, there is only one way you put your wrist...where it is strongest and that is with the palm of the hand against the wall. If you try to stop your fall with the top of your wrist, it wont be nearly strong enough and you could hurt it. A SW puts the palm behind the racket and gives more strength so you can hit faster and with more force to create more power and spin.

I'll try another example. If you are rolling a bowlingball with only your right hand from the left side of your body, you do so with the palm, not the back of the wrist. This is what the sw does.

Slazenstein kind of explains it in his vid that I linked.

Did I mention Kelly McGillis?

A good backhand is hit by pulling the butt of the handle towards the ball, not by pushing against the handle with the palm of the hand and using your arm for power. That's why you think a sw gives you more power. Sure, if you want to arm the ball and push against the raquet then yea, sw is the way to go. If you want to use your legs and body and and whip the racquet around with the torso and utilize the kinetic chain with a loose quick arm and have the ball jump off your racquet then sw is bad.

Again, there are no pros using a sw.

 

[pkshooter]

Looks like a great back hand only thing is that you're turning your shoulders like your forehand. As soon as you stop turning you'll have a great backhand. Racket low to high, and then you let the momentum turn your torso. your abs should not be turning you, just momentum.

 

[Shroud]

A good backhand is hit by pulling the butt of the handle towards the ball, not by pushing against the handle with the palm of the hand and using your arm for power. That's why you think a sw gives you more power. Sure, if you want to arm the ball and push against the raquet then yea, sw is the way to go. If you want to use your legs and body and and whip the racquet around with the torso and utilize the kinetic chain with a loose quick arm and have the ball jump off your racquet then sw is bad.

Again, there are no pros using a sw.

your right about pulling, but on contact it is stronger to have the palm behind the racket. you can hit harder because it is stronger.

i use the kinetic chain and well i have to because of the short backswing. sw and extreme eastern are more behind the racket so they are stronger and you can actually USE the kinetic chain to its fullest.

So check it Cheetah, I was finished playing one day and my partner and I were sitting down and this old guy hobble up and wants to play. Turns out he was a coach and messed up his knee and just wanted to hit because he was oldschool and couldnt stand to do nothing.

So we hit. But he was a coach and well couldnt stop coaching!! He coached the crap out of my partner and would say things like "take your racket back like him" (meaning shroud)...follow through like shroud, etc.

I challenged him on the prevalence of the 2 handed backhand, etc. He kept saying it can do this , and this, and this, etc. I said "I can do that", etc. and its weird but I was on the deuce side and when I was challenging him he told me to switch to the ad side because he wanted to see how my backhand would work crosscourt. He was totally silent. Remember he coached the CRAP out of my partner but was silent when it came to my backhand.

Based on your comments you would think he would have a cornucopia of coaching for me like, change the grip, use the legs, closed stance, etc, but ZERO.

Its killing me because I cant remember his name or his website. But there is a pict of him and Serena and I think he has coached at the Pro level.

I'll try to remember him and provide a link.

Don't get me wrong, but I appreciate your defending the status quo and dont blame you one bit!!

Question for you. On the forehand, the modern stroke has the leg plant off the right foot for a righthander with an open stance. Do you think you can plant off the LEFT foot for a backhand with an open stance?????

As for the pros, they probably have traditional coaches or viewpoints like yours holding them back. But IME extreme eastern is OK. I hit it and am pretty good with it. Its a bit different but I am more lethal with the SW.

As for the OP, think about it. The skill he has to hit a backhand like that with an eastern grip. Man that is amazing. If he does a SW or for starters an extreme eastern (surely that is OK with you since pros use it) he will be crushing backhands!!!!!!!! Why mess with his genius. Encourage it and let him blossom.

Also I KNOW that the SW can be awkward at first. FWIW there are plenty of posts about that on the forehand side, but I think the op can excel with this, and I DID say to go slow.

 

[Cheetah]

your right about pulling, but on contact it is stronger to have the palm behind the racket. you can hit harder because it is stronger.

i use the kinetic chain and well i have to because of the short backswing. sw and extreme eastern are more behind the racket so they are stronger and you can actually USE the kinetic chain to its fullest.

So check it Cheetah, I was finished playing one day and my partner and I were sitting down and this old guy hobble up and wants to play. Turns out he was a coach and messed up his knee and just wanted to hit because he was oldschool and couldnt stand to do nothing.

So we hit. But he was a coach and well couldnt stop coaching!! He coached the crap out of my partner and would say things like "take your racket back like him" (meaning shroud)...follow through like shroud, etc.

I challenged him on the prevalence of the 2 handed backhand, etc. He kept saying it can do this , and this, and this, etc. I said "I can do that", etc. and its weird but I was on the deuce side and when I was challenging him he told me to switch to the ad side because he wanted to see how my backhand would work crosscourt. He was totally silent. Remember he coached the CRAP out of my partner but was silent when it came to my backhand.

Based on your comments you would think he would have a cornucopia of coaching for me like, change the grip, use the legs, closed stance, etc, but ZERO.

Its killing me because I cant remember his name or his website. But there is a pict of him and Serena and I think he has coached at the Pro level.

I'll try to remember him and provide a link.

Don't get me wrong, but I appreciate your defending the status quo and dont blame you one bit!!

Question for you. On the forehand, the modern stroke has the leg plant off the right foot for a righthander with an open stance. Do you think you can plant off the LEFT foot for a backhand with an open stance?????

As for the pros, they probably have traditional coaches or viewpoints like yours holding them back. But IME extreme eastern is OK. I hit it and am pretty good with it. Its a bit different but I am more lethal with the SW.

As for the OP, think about it. The skill he has to hit a backhand like that with an eastern grip. Man that is amazing. If he does a SW or for starters an extreme eastern (surely that is OK with you since pros use it) he will be crushing backhands!!!!!!!! Why mess with his genius. Encourage it and let him blossom.

Also I KNOW that the SW can be awkward at first. FWIW there are plenty of posts about that on the forehand side, but I think the op can excel with this, and I DID say to go slow.

Hi, good post. appreciate it.
I have to sign off for tonight. I will reply tomorrow. have a good one.

 

[Shroud]

Hi, good post. appreciate it.
I have to sign off for tonight. I will reply tomorrow. have a good one.

Sadly the internet really SUCKS for this kind of stuff. If we were on the court I could just show you.

Here is the guy I hit with:

http://matchpointworldtennis.com/

In my mind it is just angular momentum vs the classic linear swing. Most cant get past the linear swing, but if you think about it and look at the forehand and the FACT that the palm is behind the racket I think you will start to get it.

Look forward to hearing from you, though I hope you dont pull any punches Hope I make your 1%

 

[Gyswandir]

A good backhand is hit by pulling the butt of the handle towards the ball, not by pushing against the handle with the palm of the hand and using your arm for power. That's why you think a sw gives you more power. Sure, if you want to arm the ball and push against the raquet then yea, sw is the way to go. If you want to use your legs and body and and whip the racquet around with the torso and utilize the kinetic chain with a loose quick arm and have the ball jump off your racquet then sw is bad.

Again, there are no pros using a sw.

So, first of all, I tend to agree with cheetah. My reason is not based only on the prevalence of this coaching point of view, but from personal experience.

During my junior years, I first started with a normal eastern, but due to feeling I wasn't getting enough topspin and making too many errors long, I thought I should switch to sw, like I did for my fh. I made the switch and played like that for about a year. Essentially, I was playing with the same racket face on both sides.

So, what I can tell you right away is that it promotes more elbow use and it decreases your feel on the shot. The reason for the former is that a SW promotes a different swing path, essentially trying to promote WW on the bh. The promotin of the WW leads to excess usage of elbow, which leads to inconsistencies. If you actually maintain the conventional swing path, then you are actually making life more difficult for yourself.

Nonetheless, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, as you are saying that your bh is so good that it doesn't need coaching. So, please post video. Perhaps you have discovered some evolution of the 1hbh that we can learn from.

 

[Maui19]

What bedevil said. Your sequencing is out of whack. You need to turn your shoulders more on your takeback, then keep the back of your right shoulder facing the net until after impact with the ball

 

[Attila_the_gorilla]

Another thing that may help is to keep the ball further away from you, to the left, and reach for it more. This allows you to use a full arm extension and discourages you from overrotating. Also, the resulting longer lever should help for more racket head speed.

The same principal applies with the forehand too. Try to get into position so you can swing outwards, as far from the body as comfortable.

 

[kvan]

Make your contact point farther out in front. Bring your left arm higher with your racquet on take back and consciously try and make a 'c' shape if you want the low to high motion. Also try bending your knees a lot more and then extending them through contact to stop using so much arm, and once again get more of that low to high.

 

[guitarplayer]

Or........ Forget all this stuff and hit a nice smooth powerful 2hander.

 

[Cheetah]

You seem like you know what you're talking about and you have some references with cred so I'm going to concede on your points and accept that what you're saying is possible. I haven't seen it personally but tennis technique evolves so maybe you are ahead of your time.

your right about pulling, but on contact it is stronger to have the palm behind the racket. you can hit harder because it is stronger.

I suppose that's a valid school of thought. For me personally when I'm hitting a good 1hbh it doesn't feel 'strong' at all, it feels 'fast and loose'. My grip is really really loose. The racquet has flung out of my hands and across the court several times if I'm playing w/ an overgrip that needs replacing. I'm not a coach or anything but whenever my grip shifts past an eastern i notice i start arming the ball and feel i have to push with my arm.
I don't want a 'strong' feeling on contact. Strong makes me think muscle tension. I want speed.

Don't get me wrong, but I appreciate your defending the status quo and dont blame you one bit!!

You're absolutely right. I was defending the status quo. I like to step in now and then to make sure ppl seeking advice are getting sound pointers in fundamentals so your sw grip comment set off a beaming red flag and i instinctively jumped on it. But as i said I'm willing to be open minded to the possibility that what you are saying can be done.

Question for you. On the forehand, the modern stroke has the leg plant off the right foot for a righthander with an open stance. Do you think you can plant off the LEFT foot for a backhand with an open stance?????

I would think not because the right arm is on the opposite side of the body than the left foot. On a forehand you can plant on right foot and swing w/ right arm so they act like a unit. Not a fan of the open stance on a 1hbh.

As for the pros, they probably have traditional coaches or viewpoints like yours holding them back. But IME extreme eastern is OK. I hit it and am pretty good with it. Its a bit different but I am more lethal with the SW.

I think extreme eastern is ok. It's just that once you go past that into sw territory the swing path changes considerably. And if swing path changes then other factors have to change too such as stance, rotation, contact point etc. I guess it's possible but personally i have no idea how to hit a fundamentally sound bh with a sw that's efficient, effortless, provides drive when you need it and looks pretty, which is important. I know henin had an extreme grip. Was it a full sw? Idk. haven't looked lately. But she was very short.

As for the OP, think about it. The skill he has to hit a backhand like that with an eastern grip. Man that is amazing. If he does a SW or for starters an extreme eastern (surely that is OK with you since pros use it) he will be crushing backhands!!!!!!!! Why mess with his genius. Encourage it and let him blossom.

OP can definitely have a very good bh if he keeps up with the dedication and progress. Looks a lot better already. My immediate thought though is that if he goes sw then he won't have as big a pool of knowledge and insight to draw from as the pros aren't using it so there won't be a lot of video to study, coaches today aren't teaching it and the sw bh's you see here on tt are not good. no offense to you sw guys.