My Serve Went from 3.5 to 4.5 in 24 hours (video)

#5
With my GE healed I was finally able to go out yesterday and hit exactly 67 serves, recorded the last 7.

Thanks to everyone who provided feedback, I tried to incorporate what I could, here is my progress thus far.

Serves 12/5/18

My serve two days ago for reference
Looking a lot better! Nice racquet drop!

Still not much margin over the net though - you gotta make contact while your body is still rising for this
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
#6
With my GE healed I was finally able to go out yesterday and hit exactly 67 serves, recorded the last 7.

Thanks to everyone who provided feedback, I tried to incorporate what I could, here is my progress thus far.

Serves 12/5/18

My serve two days ago for reference
Looking better but still some room for improvement on using your legs/hips.

Really focus on keeping that tossing arm high to maximize your power/spin.



You're 27 but your front foot just barely leaves the ground, and is more of a twisting motion rather than an explosive/power motion. I also noticed that you're dragging your front foot before you serve, which is changing your platform. Compare your plaform serve to Fed's, notice his front foot explosion compared to yours.

 
#8
Keep going for it...at this rate you should be a 6.0 by Sunday.
Who needs 10 minute abs when you can do "6.0 by Sunday". Why waste countless years with traditional progression and countless hours wasted on court with coaches when you can progress from 4.0 to 6.0 in a week. This radical new training method includes, older playing partners, using higher player videos for reference, and a wonderful key training forum where you can get the key tips and coaching you need to suceed!. Check out our YT channel for all the information, and sign up today!
 
#9
Looking a lot better! Nice racquet drop!
Still not much margin over the net though - you gotta make contact while your body is still rising for this
Lol thank you, first time in my life anyone has ever said “nice racquet drop” about my serve, I’ve always had a terrible hitch ever since i started being an unnatural thrower.

Looking better but still some room for improvement on using your legs/hips.

Really focus on keeping that tossing arm high to maximize your power/spin.

You're 27 but your front foot just barely leaves the ground, and is more of a twisting motion rather than an explosive/power motion. I also noticed that you're dragging your front foot before you serve, which is changing your platform. Compare your plaform serve to Fed's, notice his front foot explosion compared to yours.
Thanks for the tips I agree over time I’ll need to form my motion into being more explosive.

I like the dog.

I see the same level serve before and after 24 hour period, slightly different approach.

I can relate to the foot faults though.

Keep going for it...at this rate you should be a 6.0 by Sunday.
Woah there tiger, let’s take it one step at a time... if I get my entire game to 4.5 by Sunday I’d be ecstatic xD
 
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#10
Who needs 10 minute abs when you can do "6.0 by Sunday". Why waste countless years with traditional progression and countless hours wasted on court with coaches when you can progress from 4.0 to 6.0 in a week. This radical new training method includes, older playing partners, using higher player videos for reference, and a wonderful key training forum where you can get the key tips and coaching you need to suceed!. Check out our YT channel for all the information, and sign up today!
You’ve just given me a great idea for a how-to book, it’ll be a NY Times best seller on the TT forums!!!
 

FiReFTW

Hall of Fame
#14
Compared to before you are raising your left arm and leaving it up longer instead of pulling it down early, you are going more into the court and hitting more into the ball compared to before where you didn't.

Overall very good improvements, but if thats a 4.5 serve then my serve is at least a 5.5
 
#15
Reminds me of the "Fluent in any language in 30 days" and "Six-pack abs in six weeks" pdf's they use to spam out.

"6.0 Futures qualifier in 6.0 months"
To be fair I went from 188 lbs at 5’7 (3 push ups max, 1 chin up max) to 160.5 lbs in 10 weeks with a pretty solid outline for a six pack.

So hopefully in about 10 months I’ll have a pretty solid outline to achieve 6.0 :)

Contact me for the royalty contract to use it.
My offer to you is $3 per book sold, I will be selling hard back copies for $44 and soft back for $25.
 
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#16
With my GE healed I was finally able to go out yesterday and hit exactly 67 serves, recorded the last 7.

Thanks to everyone who provided feedback, I tried to incorporate what I could, here is my progress thus far.

Serves 12/5/18
...................................................
High speed video is necessary to look at the fast changing parts of the serve. Your 30 fps video only shows one frame during final approach to impact, but 5-10 frames are needed to see the arm and racket changing during approaching the ball.

At 59 sec.


1) Your upper arm between the shoulder joint and elbow is about at 45 degrees to the horizontal. Compare that angle to high level serves.

2) Your elbow has too much flex, about 140 d., at this time of the serve. It should be near straighter. Compare to high level serve.

Golfer's Elbow has been associated with the forehand and the serve. I have not seen details discussed.

I've seen a somewhat similar technique used in a few poster's serve videos. TomT was the first one that I noticed using a similar technique. Some of Bigservesofthand's serving techniques use a similar motion for pace.

Warning from my experience - About 10 or 12 years ago I was experimenting with a volleying technique to increase the pace of my volley. The flex angle of my elbow was about 90 d. When I tried very hard - using active muscle forces and not stretched muscles - I gave myself an immediate Golfer's Elbow injury (in side of the elbow) - on the first or second try. At the time, I had not heard of internal shoulder rotation (ISR) but that was what I was using to speed up my forearm and racket. I believe that the injury occurred because I used the bigger ISR muscles but the resistance to rotation of my forearm and racket's moment of inertia, with elbow at 90 d., was too high and the tendon suffered a tear. I did not see a Dr.

Your elbow angle is not 90 d during ISR, more like 140 d at one point. But in a typical high level serve - when the most forceful ISR occurs - the elbow flex angle might be much straighter and as straight as comfortable at impact. The straighter the arm is the less the moment of inertia of the forearm and racket. With the arm near straight the ISR can produce higher racket head speed and there is less stress on the elbow. I believe that the angle you use increases stress on the elbow in the area of Golfer's Elbow injuries. See high speed videos of high level ATP serves for details and safe examples of techniques.

Don't practice that technique until you understand the nature of the timing of the elbow angle in the 30 milliseconds approaching impact. I've posted many times on this part of the serve with many pictures and videos.

You need high speed video for feedback on this issue as ISR before impact lasts only about 30 milliseconds.

You should also view the Todd Ellenbecker video "Rotator Cuff Injury". Join Tennis Resources for 3 months to view the video.
 
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#23
High speed video is necessary to look at the fast changing parts of the serve. Your 30 fps video only shows one frame during final approach to impact, but 5-10 frames are needed to see the arm and racket changing during approaching the ball.

At 59 sec.

1) Your upper arm between the shoulder joint and elbow is about at 45 degrees to the horizontal. Compare that angle to high level serves.

2) Your elbow has too much flex, about 140 d., at this time of the serve. It should be near straighter. Compare to high level serve.

Golfer's Elbow has been associated with the forehand and the serve. I have not seen details discussed.

I've seen a somewhat similar technique used in a few poster's serve videos. TomT was the first one that I noticed using a similar technique. Some of Bigservesofthand's serving techniques use a similar motion for pace.

Warning from my experience - About 10 or 12 years ago I was experimenting with a volleying technique to increase the pace of my volley. The flex angle of my elbow was about 90 d. When I tried very hard - using active muscle forces and not stretched muscles - I gave myself an immediate Golfer's Elbow injury (in side of the elbow) - on the first or second try. At the time, I had not heard of internal shoulder rotation (ISR) but that was what I was using to speed up my forearm and racket. I believe that the injury occurred because I used the bigger ISR muscles but the resistance to rotation of my forearm and racket's moment of inertia, with elbow at 90 d., was too high and the tendon suffered a tear. I did not see a Dr.

Your elbow angle is not 90 d during ISR, more like 140 d at one point. But in a typical high level serve - when the most forceful ISR occurs - the elbow flex angle might be much straighter and as straight as comfortable at impact. The straighter the arm is the less the moment of inertia of the forearm and racket. With the arm near straight the ISR can produce higher racket head speed and there is less stress on the elbow. I believe that the angle you use increases stress on the elbow in the area of Golfer's Elbow injuries. See high speed videos of high level ATP serves for details and safe examples of techniques.

Don't practice that technique until you understand the nature of the timing of the elbow angle in the 30 milliseconds approaching impact. I've posted many times on this part of the serve with many pictures and videos.

You need high speed video for feedback on this issue as ISR before impact lasts only about 30 milliseconds.

You should also view the Todd Ellenbecker video "Rotator Cuff Injury". Join Tennis Resources for 3 months to view the video.
Great post thank you, I will record 2 of the serves in slow motion 240 FPS next time I check my serve progress.

I sustained a GE injury attempting too many push ups, pull ups, and assisted dips when I was too heavy and too weak.

When I had GE it was painful to wash my face and to hit flat serves or serves in general, I have completely rehabbed it fortunately.

I don't like clickbait. But I like the doggy. The serve is okay. OP if you're serious you should hire a real coach instead of soliciting advice on TT.
Ah sorry force of habit on the clickbait xD

I am serious but I consider myself my coach, and I sift through the information in this forum and apply what I believe will help me reach my goals.

I’ve worked at clubs before teaching clinics, camps, and also basic lessons to kids, and of the 10 coaches I’ve come to known, only 2 had knowledge outside the basics.

The best coach I know is Paul Kobelt, his oldest son is rank 500 atm, youngest son is playing d1 at Osu, and daughter is rank 600 doubles I believe.
 
#24
You are foot faulting … I've been doing the same thing. Didn't even realize it until I watched a video of myself recently.

Also it looks to me that you are already coming down before you make contact … maybe not touching the court prior to hitting the ball but almost. If you watch the video of Fed he makes contact almost at the apex or just prior.
 
#25
Given that you'd previously been a 5.0, the conspiracy theorist in me is beginning to wonder if you're already a high level player (5.0+) who's trying to build a new tennis youtube channel and using these forums to organically grow it. Either way, I like your racket drop. The more you rotate the more time and distance you give the racket to drop lower.
 
#27
Given that you'd previously been a 5.0, the conspiracy theorist in me is beginning to wonder if you're already a high level player (5.0+) who's trying to build a new tennis youtube channel and using these forums to organically grow it. Either way, I like your racket drop. The more you rotate the more time and distance you give the racket to drop lower.
Thanks for the feedback, and creative theory, a couple flaws though.
If I wanted to grow my channel, I would plug it once on my main channel, and instantly get 40,000+ subscribers (already did that with my secondary vlogging channel)
According to the USTA computer ratings, at this very moment I’m still rated 5.0 (although I’ve never beaten a 5.0 player), but I’ve taken 3.5 years away from the game, lost all muscle mass, and had put on 30+ lbs destroying my previous athletic capabilities.

Edit: you can’t fake the way I looked playing vs. my dad lol... that was just a disgrace.

Why my comment being deleted. This guy is not even a 4.5
lol no idea why it got deleted, I agree with u that my current level is not 4.5
 
#28
Lol thank you, first time in my life anyone has ever said “nice racquet drop” about my serve, I’ve always had a terrible hitch ever since i started being an unnatural thrower.
It looks good now man. I wasnt sure seeing your motion at normal speed but when you pause the video and go frame by frame using , and . You can really see it

do you throw left handed? Im a lefty too but i throw right handed, ive always struggled getting a good drop
 
#29
Compared to before you are raising your left arm and leaving it up longer instead of pulling it down early, you are going more into the court and hitting more into the ball compared to before where you didn't.

Overall very good improvements, but if thats a 4.5 serve then my serve is at least a 5.5
Your serve might be !!
 
#30
It looks good now man. I wasnt sure seeing your motion at normal speed but when you pause the video and go frame by frame using , and . You can really see it

do you throw left handed? Im a lefty too but i throw right handed, ive always struggled getting a good drop
First time in my life I’ve finally figured out how to get a semi-decent drop.

I can throw left handed but I throw farther right handed.

The curse of the lefties, we learn to do so many things right handed (we live in a right handed world) that it diminishes some of the coordination in our dominant side.

On the plus side i guess it helped me become partially ambidextrous.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
#31
First time in my life I’ve finally figured out how to get a semi-decent drop.

I can throw left handed but I throw farther right handed.

The curse of the lefties, we learn to do so many things right handed (we live in a right handed world) that it diminishes some of the coordination in our dominant side.

On the plus side i guess it helped me become partially ambidextrous.
If you can throw farther right handed you might have a more powerful right handed serve, once you got the coordination down?

If nothing else, you could mix it up a bit with some different serves that way...
 
#32
If you can throw farther right handed you might have a more powerful right handed serve, once you got the coordination down?

If nothing else, you could mix it up a bit with some different serves that way...
Ive tried this, and im uncoordinated insanely with serving right handed. Its be a 6month project just to test the hypothesis
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
#34
Given the choice, the lefty serve is probably the best option all things equal (McEnroe is Exhibit A). But OP doesn't look that natural with generating power on his lefty serve, that's why I threw out the serve righty nugget :)
 
#35
Given the choice, the lefty serve is probably the best option all things equal (McEnroe is Exhibit A). But OP doesn't look that natural with generating power on his lefty serve, that's why I threw out the serve righty nugget :)
I might consider attempting a right handed serve in the future, after I fully learn the correct mechanics on my lefty serve.

My right handed forehand is quite good and technically more sound than my left handed forehand.

When I hit vs. the wall I always start with 10 minutes with my right handed forehand.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
#36
I might consider attempting a right handed serve in the future, after I fully learn the correct mechanics on my lefty serve.

My right handed forehand is quite good and technically more sound than my left handed forehand.

When I hit vs. the wall I always start with 10 minutes with my right handed forehand.
If you can throw farther right handed, you might somehow be able to better coordinate your kinetic chain on your right side.

I'm not saying you couldn't learn to better do that on your left, but presumably you have been throwing things your whole life with your right hand, so developing a serve might be easier on that side.

It would be interesting to video your RH serve as is, and see if you get more explosion off the ground than you do with your LH serve. Food for thought...
 
#37
Well, if one can throw far right handed, serving is not that crazy different ?!?
Yeah lol thats why i tried it. But i think its the coordination of the toss, the angle, the body motion, etc... the serve is more than just the throwing motion. You know how when you right left handed? thats what i feel like when i serve right handed. its messy and unrefined, like i'm back at 3.0
 
#40
@TennisProdigy
How far can you throw a tennis ball with your right hand vs left hand?
If you stand at the baseline, can you easily throw it over the opposite fence? What if you stand at your back fence?
Throwing a baseball? football?
 
#41
@TennisProdigy
How far can you throw a tennis ball with your right hand vs left hand?
If you stand at the baseline, can you easily throw it over the opposite fence? What if you stand at your back fence?
Throwing a baseball? football?
Standing on baseline, I can throw a tennis ball left handed close to opposite baseline, right handed can throw over baseline.

I wish I could throw it over the fence lmao... no idea about a baseball or football.

3 years ago serve clocked at citi open 97 mph, this year clocked at 98, 102, 105 mph (3 tries)
 

FiReFTW

Hall of Fame
#42
Standing on baseline, I can throw a tennis ball left handed close to opposite baseline, right handed can throw over baseline.

I wish I could throw it over the fence lmao... no idea about a baseball or football.

3 years ago serve clocked at citi open 97 mph, this year clocked at 98, 102, 105 mph (3 tries)
They don't seem nowhere near 105mph in your video, interesting.
 
#43
They don't seem nowhere near 105mph in your video, interesting.
Perhaps 105 wasn’t anywhere close to going in. Maybe it’s different at the citi open but at Wimbledon, Head had a booth set up to measure serve speeds in a cage where there was a gun to measure the speed but it wasn’t a full length court so you had no idea if the serve you hit was in or out.
 

FiReFTW

Hall of Fame
#44
Perhaps 105 wasn’t anywhere close to going in. Maybe it’s different at the citi open but at Wimbledon, Head had a booth set up to measure serve speeds in a cage where there was a gun to measure the speed but it wasn’t a full length court so you had no idea if the serve you hit was in or out.
Thats a good point, I can probably hit pretty fast serves if I absolutely blast the ball, even if it hits the back fence :D
 
#45
They don't seem nowhere near 105mph in your video, interesting.
The serves in this video are slice-flat hit at 80% effort, I was working on technique.

In the 36 degree weather, I’d estimate the speed of these serves ranging from 80-90 mph.

At the citi open I was hitting purely flat and I have no idea if they would be in on a tennis court.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
#46
The serves in this video are slice-flat hit at 80% effort, I was working on technique.

In the 36 degree weather, I’d estimate the speed of these serves ranging from 80-90 mph.

At the citi open I was hitting purely flat and I have no idea if they would be in on a tennis court.
Not on two bounces to the back fence.

Try to land your serve in the box and hit above the crossbar on the back fence on the fly.

You'll have to wait for spring though.

J
 
#47
Not on two bounces to the back fence.

Try to land your serve in the box and hit above the crossbar on the back fence on the fly.

You'll have to wait for spring though.

J
35 degrees plus dead balls = lower bounce

No need to wait for spring, I play indoors 2x a week right now and have a radar gun coming in from amazon in a few days (y)
 
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