My theory on durability/playability on different types of strings (+ cost of stringing service)

ONgame

Semi-Pro
This is only a theory, I recently got back into tennis and is searching for what strings to use. I would love more opinions on this.

A little about me:
Self rated 3.5 with a 3.0 serve
Eastern forehand and 1hbh, Flat hitter
All court player
Racquet: Prince warrior 100 2014 ver with ports
Current strings: Tecnifibre syn gut 1.30
Plays 2 times a week, 1.5 to 2 hour per session

I have been researching for a month and came to the conclusion that Natural gut is the BEST choice for people that don't string their own racquets.
My local store does natural gut job for $20 and the rest $16, no idea on hybrids but I am not too interested in them right now, already overloaded on so many choices!

First, Polys are out of the question since "90% of the people should not be playing with polys", I played with dead polys and did not like it one bit, this playability pretty much puts polys in the same catagory as syn gut and multis.
Second, People seem to agree on Natural gut should last 2 to 3 times as long as multifillaments/synthetic gut on durability, I will take the average of 2.5 times

Lets say:
avg syn gut is ~$4,
avg multis ~$14,
klip legend on TW is ~$26 (I am interested in trying out natural gut)

with stringing service:
syn gut is ~$20
multis ~$30
klip legend ~$46

for the cost of one set of klip legend, it would cost ~$75 for multis and ~$50 for syn gut, multis are terrible in value
even if string savers are added, the obvious choice would still be klip legend over syn gut.
Multis only seem to make sense when the choice of nat gut is considerably more expensive.

Multis still does not make sense even when you are doing your own stringing.

My plan for now is to try X1 biphase and Prince Premier Control (thanks to Mikeler's Multis thread, awesome awesome), before trying klip legend.

Thanks,
 

fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
I string at home and also string for several folks I know. No installation cost here, but I also haven't sampled natural gut yet, so I can't comment on how well it has held up for me. I'm 50 and don't want to stress my arm, so I avoid poly. Thinner 17 ga. syn. gut typically gives me acceptable softness along with feel and performance that I really like.

My opinion of multi is similar to yours - I barely use it, but it has come in handy once or twice when somebody needed to get some quick relief from progressive wrist or elbow irritation. I've seen it help in that capacity on more than one occasion. Compared with the cost and performance of syn. gut though, I don't get too excited about it.

I'm actually a little jealous that you're using Tecnifibre syn. gut. TW hasn't been selling reels of that string for a little while, but I have a small stash that I'm saving for now. That's the most cozy syn. gut I've used in recent history. While your experiment with natural gut will probably give you a setup having a different feel and personality, I'd say skip the multis and try the natural gut next.
 

mctennis

Legend
Gut lasts a long time UNLESS you are a string breaker. I have one racquet that still has the same gut in it from 2012, and plays great. Gut lasts longer, plays better, more consistent than the other strings I have ever tried. Gut may cost more initially but for the cost vs longevity it is the best buy for me. ( If you hybrid it with a textured string it will not last as long)
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
Gut lasts a long time UNLESS you are a string breaker. I have one racquet that still has the same gut in it from 2012, and plays great. Gut lasts longer, plays better, more consistent than the other strings I have ever tried. Gut may cost more initially but for the cost vs longevity it is the best buy for me. ( If you hybrid it with a textured string it will not last as long)
Yep. Though I dont want a type of game where I wasnt a string breaker! But thats just me, and string savers will help for sure. I liked my gut/mosquitobite or gut/zx string beds while they lasted, and gut/alu power is pretty nice too.
 

ONgame

Semi-Pro
Gut lasts a long time UNLESS you are a string breaker. I have one racquet that still has the same gut in it from 2012, and plays great. Gut lasts longer, plays better, more consistent than the other strings I have ever tried. Gut may cost more initially but for the cost vs longevity it is the best buy for me. ( If you hybrid it with a textured string it will not last as long)
How often do you use that racquet with gut?
 

mctennis

Legend
How often do you use that racquet with gut?
I use the racquet with gut once or twice a week. I have two racquets so I try and rotate between. So basically two to four hours a week + or - time on the ball machine ( usually in the spring) or an in club tournament or event.
 

Chotobaka

Hall of Fame
Yikes. I really dont understand your point! :(

I did not intend to hit a perfect lob over your head. "A picture is worth 1000 words..." mistakenly attributed to Confucius, but the credit has stuck over time. There actually is a Chinese proverb that translates along the lines of "hearing something a hundred times isn't as good as seeing it once". Get it now, Shroudfucius?:D
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
Off topic, your paying way too much to get your racket strung, $16 for 15-20mins of work?
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
How much does it cost for you and where do you live? During my research I saw there are people paying 30 dollars for one string job.
I charge people $10 for the labor. Pretty standard in florida unless your at a country club
 

prjacobs

Hall of Fame
Gut will last easily a year at your level. Just get some decent stuff. Look at the gut reviews here. I loved Babolat VS in 16 and 17 gauge. People say that Wilson gut is what Babolat used to be before they started coating it. Again, this info is all on the forum.
And - I love the way gut feels. Everyone owes it to themselves to experience all gut once.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
C

Chadillac

Guest
I get my string jobs from a small local tennis shop, Hawaii.
Ahh, everything is expensive over there if i remember. Not a bad deal i guess, you maybe pay 2-3$ over but nothing to complain about if they do a good job.

$20 on gut is fair because if the stringer messes it up, he has to replace.

Gut is decent but he lives close to the water
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
I did not intend to hit a perfect lob over your head. "A picture is worth 1000 words..." mistakenly attributed to Confucius, but the credit has stuck over time. There actually is a Chinese proverb that translates along the lines of "hearing something a hundred times isn't as good as seeing it once". Get it now, Shroudfucius?:D
That cracked me up! Shroudfucius! no idea Confucious got the cred for that!
 

beepee1972

Semi-Pro
Too bad here in the Netherlands we have too much rain / very humid courts after rain, so I am afraid gut is not really an option for me. But I will give it a try sometime, for now I will stick to simple syngut. Since I string myself, the difference in price is of course not as stated in the OP's post, but just the string cost.
 

LaZeR

Professional
Gut lasts a long time UNLESS you are a string breaker. I have one racquet that still has the same gut in it from 2012, and plays great. Gut lasts longer, plays better, more consistent than the other strings I have ever tried. Gut may cost more initially but for the cost vs longevity it is the best buy for me. ( If you hybrid it with a textured string it will not last as long)
I'm NOT a string breaker, rated USTA 4.5, hybrid Natural Gut with round-smooth-soft (co)Poly's (Iontec, SPPP) at around 46 lbs, and DO NOT think "... Gut lasts longer ...".

Maybe I could be doing something wrong. Must admit I've been TRYING to copy Nadal's style by extremely brushing up. Thanks!!
 
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ChicagoJack

Hall of Fame
Hi, @ONgame

You are getting a HUGE array of responses here. That's because the performance/cost sweet spot is going to vary given the type of strokes you have. It's also tempting to generalize the longevity of gut vs nylon, vs poly, but the truth is even within the same materials, players will experience huge variations in string life.

1. Multi Longevity - For 3 years, I played full beds of (your aforementioned) Tecnifiber X1 Biphase in 16g. Great string, but even in a dense 18x20 Prestige, I would snap in that stuff in about 12 hours. On the other hand, I can get 40+ hours on Head RIP Control before snapping. Looks and feels new forever, but once you see those little tufts of fluffy stuff leak out of that hard outer wrap, you can count on it popping in about four more 1st serves.

2. Gut longevity - Longevity on gut varies widely too, manufacture process and gauge really do matter. Maybe just bad luck, but my first few attempts with gut were not good at all. Tried both Klip and Pacific (with smooth poly crosses), and I’d snap the gut in just 6 hours or less. I was just about to give up on gut altogether but gave Babolat Tonic 15L a try. What a difference. I ended up playing the next 5-6 years with Tonic 15L mains (with poly crosses) and in all that time I NEVER snapped my gut. I would simply restring at around 40-45 hours, which is when my mains start to go wavy due to tension loss, and increasing friction.

3. For a 3.0-3.5 player with flat strokes, tonic 15L would be a great long lasting choice IMO. TF X1 BiPhase has a gut like feel, due to the low stiffness and sticky/grabby outer coating. It actually has one of the highest COF (string to string friction) digits on record. See TWU friction tool here.

4. For me ( Benchmarked 4.5 Doubles, Aggressive Style ) who’s interested in maximizing spin potential while being mindful of arm comfort … Gut Ms, Poly Xs works great. More on that experience here. Controlled lab study indicates that poly (low COF) will create 20% more spin on average than nylon, and Gut/Poly is on average, even more slippery than full poly. More on that study here.

Also more economical …

2 Frames with TF X1 Biphase 16g … 18.95 x 2 = $37.90 @ 12 hours each before snapping.
2 Frames with Babolat Tonic 15L Mains, WC Mosquito Bite Xs … $35.95 + $9.95 = $45.90 @ 45 Hours.
So for 8 dollars more to weave Gut/Poly, I get a string bed which lasts me 4 times longer than a full bed of multi.

5. Switch racquets, and you might find a different playability/cost sweet spot. That gut/poly combination worked great for about 6+ years on my 18x20 Prestiges, and my 16x19 Donnay Pro 1. But that doesn’t work at all on my current string eating, heavily modified FrankenRacquet which is 360 grams 105 head, and 16x15.

Just my 2 cents Fwiw.

-J
 
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Ihatetennis

Hall of Fame
This is only a theory, I recently got back into tennis and is searching for what strings to use. I would love more opinions on this.

A little about me:
Self rated 3.5 with a 3.0 serve
Eastern forehand and 1hbh, Flat hitter
All court player
Racquet: Prince warrior 100 2014 ver with ports
Current strings: Tecnifibre syn gut 1.30
Plays 2 times a week, 1.5 to 2 hour per session

I have been researching for a month and came to the conclusion that Natural gut is the BEST choice for people that don't string their own racquets.
My local store does natural gut job for $20 and the rest $16, no idea on hybrids but I am not too interested in them right now, already overloaded on so many choices!

First, Polys are out of the question since "90% of the people should not be playing with polys", I played with dead polys and did not like it one bit, this playability pretty much puts polys in the same catagory as syn gut and multis.
Second, People seem to agree on Natural gut should last 2 to 3 times as long as multifillaments/synthetic gut on durability, I will take the average of 2.5 times

Lets say:
avg syn gut is ~$4,
avg multis ~$14,
klip legend on TW is ~$26 (I am interested in trying out natural gut)

with stringing service:
syn gut is ~$20
multis ~$30
klip legend ~$46

for the cost of one set of klip legend, it would cost ~$75 for multis and ~$50 for syn gut, multis are terrible in value
even if string savers are added, the obvious choice would still be klip legend over syn gut.
Multis only seem to make sense when the choice of nat gut is considerably more expensive.

Multis still does not make sense even when you are doing your own stringing.

My plan for now is to try X1 biphase and Prince Premier Control (thanks to Mikeler's Multis thread, awesome awesome), before trying klip legend.

Thanks,
For people that don't string their own rackets lol.....

Gut is 2x the cost or more of most strings.

It is also 1/2 as durable as most strings.

Kevlar is the best for people that can handle it and don't string their own rackets.



Gut lasts 1-2 sets for me, Kevlar 3-7 depending on length of rallies.

Kevlar and Gut have same playability window, until they pop. Except Kevlar won't even break for most users.
 

CopolyX

Hall of Fame
I just question the approach. Seems to me that your topic is more based on string bed longevity (durability can mean - less breakage) .
If that is your goal, it will limit you.
The strings out there can be overwhelming. But many opt for the easy path.
Goal: To find the best/right string for you that compliments your game and fits your criteria(whatever that is) , will take time, money, patients, logic and creativity.
The tennis string market has a ton great options and we are very lucky. Note: not all copolys play dead! Did you try them all and at what tension?
All string types (sync gut, multis, copolys, & many more) have been constantly evolving and getting much better in the arm friendly / performance area.
Copolys are getting softer...
But yes, much better tension maintenance ( is needed) is the current big hurdle that hopefully will come down the road, also naturally the string bed life!
Syncs, N Gut have an edge here ( but minus spin potential, durability - aka string breaking)
Muiltis are getting better, fusing more blends. But also can have a short string bed life, low spin potential, vulnerable to breakers.

So good luck on your quest...
 

ONgame

Semi-Pro
Maybe the whole point of this thread is me trying to convince myself to try natural gut.
Yes, I do admit I am looking at it from a longevity point of view as I am a value oriented person. Generally, the way I see it- one dollar should get me at least one hour of entertainment, but can be more or less depending on the occasion.
Not many would deny that natural gut is much better than syn gut or multis. By my theory, if the cost in the long run is about equal or cheaper, I think I'll be happy staying with natural gut.

Since this thread I've went back up to my original level of playing, pretty much figured out my serves and worked on my strokes, so I am playing at around 4.0 now
Putting my theory to the test -
I first tried X1 biphase @57lbs in my warrior 100, it feels like the ports has made the string bed too soft. I'm about 11-12 hours into this string job, I have about 10 string savers at places that started to fray, seems like it still has plenty of life left.
Then a week ago I tried full bed tonic+15L @57lbs in a K90 I picked up for collection. I transitioned fully in less than 20 minutes even though it was my first time gut and first time 90 sqin, and I had a blast with the setup!

I've been looking at gut/poly hybrids since making this thread, read all of SpinToWin's gut/poly thread, I think I'll probably change to RF97A later this year and go gut/poly, after trying the K90 I just fell in love with the stability of a heavier racquet.

Anyway, hey, who knows, maybe next year, I'll be playing with full bed poly because my arm's all trained up from heavier racquets to handle stiffer strings...
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Hi, @ONgame

You are getting a HUGE array of responses here. That's because the performance/cost sweet spot is going to vary given the type of strokes you have. It's also tempting to generalize the longevity of gut vs nylon, vs poly, but the truth is even within the same materials, players will experience huge variations in string life.

1. Multi Longevity - For 3 years, I played full beds of (your aforementioned) Tecnifiber X1 Biphase in 16g. Great string, but even in a dense 18x20 Prestige, I would snap in that stuff in about 12 hours. On the other hand, I can get 40+ hours on Head RIP Control before snapping. Looks and feels new forever, but once you see those little tufts of fluffy stuff leak out of that hard outer wrap, you can count on it popping in about four more 1st serves.

2. Gut longevity - Longevity on gut varies widely too, manufacture process and gauge really do matter. Maybe just bad luck, but my first few attempts with gut were not good at all. Tried both Klip and Pacific (with smooth poly crosses), and I’d snap the gut in just 6 hours or less. I was just about to give up on gut altogether but gave Babolat Tonic 15L a try. What a difference. I ended up playing the next 5-6 years with Tonic 15L mains (with poly crosses) and in all that time I NEVER snapped my gut. I would simply restring at around 40-45 hours, which is when my mains start to go wavy due to tension loss, and increasing friction.

3. For a 3.0-3.5 player with flat strokes, tonic 15L would be a great long lasting choice IMO. TF X1 BiPhase has a gut like feel, due to the low stiffness and sticky/grabby outer coating. It actually has one of the highest COF (string to string friction) digits on record. See TWU friction tool here.

4. For me ( Benchmarked 4.5 Doubles, Aggressive Style ) who’s interested in maximizing spin potential while being mindful of arm comfort … Gut Ms, Poly Xs works great. More on that experience here. Controlled lab study indicates that poly (low COF) will create 20% more spin on average than nylon, and Gut/Poly is on average, even more slippery than full poly. More on that study here.

Also more economical …

2 Frames with TF X1 Biphase 16g … 18.95 x 2 = $37.90 @ 12 hours each before snapping.
2 Frames with Babolat Tonic 15L Mains, WC Mosquito Bite Xs … $35.95 + $9.95 = $45.90 @ 45 Hours.
So for 8 dollars more to weave Gut/Poly, I get a string bed which lasts me 4 times longer than a full bed of multi.

5. Switch racquets, and you might find a different playability/cost sweet spot. That gut/poly combination worked great for about 6+ years on my 18x20 Prestiges, and my 16x19 Donnay Pro 1. But that doesn’t work at all on my current string eating, heavily modified FrankenRacquet which is 360 grams 105 head, and 16x15.

Just my 2 cents Fwiw.

-J
Hi Jack ... I'm a new member, and just read your co-focus to ZX Holy Grail quest. Epic ... I am bowing towards Chicago in your honor.

I have a question ... do you still use gut/ZX or have you gone back to gut/poly?

Second question ... is full gut or gut/ZX softer on arm? I'm about two months into first bout of TE, and will put gut in my racquet when I'm ready to play again. My first time back to playing will be strictly about arm with no concern about spin or string breakage. It would seem obvious that full gut would be softest, but then polys like RPM seem to play more comfortable than their stiffness index. It would seem, at least with topspin strokes, string movement is a factor in comfort.

Don't think this was OT, OP says now playing 4.0 ... he will run into players playing poly that haven't had their tennis elbow YET.

Fyi ...I am about to start a new thread "Babolat Pure Strike after tennis elbow" ... will ask more about strings and racquets there.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
This is only a theory, I recently got back into tennis and is searching for what strings to use. I would love more opinions on this.

A little about me:
Self rated 3.5 with a 3.0 serve
Eastern forehand and 1hbh, Flat hitter
All court player
Racquet: Prince warrior 100 2014 ver with ports
Current strings: Tecnifibre syn gut 1.30
Plays 2 times a week, 1.5 to 2 hour per session

I have been researching for a month and came to the conclusion that Natural gut is the BEST choice for people that don't string their own racquets.
My local store does natural gut job for $20 and the rest $16, no idea on hybrids but I am not too interested in them right now, already overloaded on so many choices!

First, Polys are out of the question since "90% of the people should not be playing with polys", I played with dead polys and did not like it one bit, this playability pretty much puts polys in the same catagory as syn gut and multis.
Second, People seem to agree on Natural gut should last 2 to 3 times as long as multifillaments/synthetic gut on durability, I will take the average of 2.5 times

Lets say:
avg syn gut is ~$4,
avg multis ~$14,
klip legend on TW is ~$26 (I am interested in trying out natural gut)

with stringing service:
syn gut is ~$20
multis ~$30
klip legend ~$46

for the cost of one set of klip legend, it would cost ~$75 for multis and ~$50 for syn gut, multis are terrible in value
even if string savers are added, the obvious choice would still be klip legend over syn gut.
Multis only seem to make sense when the choice of nat gut is considerably more expensive.

Multis still does not make sense even when you are doing your own stringing.

My plan for now is to try X1 biphase and Prince Premier Control (thanks to Mikeler's Multis thread, awesome awesome), before trying klip legend.

Thanks,
ONgame ... it occurs to me that an analysis on the cost of strings/tennis, has to end with a conclusion that the biggest cost multiplier is spin. Nothing else comes close. Hit flat and save tons of $$$. Hit flat like Connors, and make tons of $$$. Hit flat and avoid tennis elbow, and avoid doc and PT and flexbar costs. All of us suckers :) that chased the spin and the God of Poly exceeded that $1 per hour of entertainment metric. Then again ... hit that one topspin lob winner on match point ... and rub it in your buddies faces for years ... PRICELESS
 

Readers

Professional
ONgame ... it occurs to me that an analysis on the cost of strings/tennis, has to end with a conclusion that the biggest cost multiplier is spin. Nothing else comes close. Hit flat and save tons of $$$. Hit flat like Connors, and make tons of $$$. Hit flat and avoid tennis elbow, and avoid doc and PT and flexbar costs. All of us suckers :) that chased the spin and the God of Poly exceeded that $1 per hour of entertainment metric. Then again ... hit that one topspin lob winner on match point ... and rub it in your buddies faces for years ... PRICELESS
My elbow hurts less since I added more spin to my very very flat hitting game.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
My elbow hurts less since I added more spin to my very very flat hitting game.
Maybe you hit your flat shot like Potro ... that would hurt.

$pin $pin $pin ... draining the bank accounts of tennis players across the country. Just a matter of time before TW bans me for being a whistleblower ... :) Man ... cows had the "eat more chicken" campaign rolling and I come along.
 
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