My Top 100 By Gender and Era

[triforce defender]

As I have mentioned in another thread, I think the best way to rank the top 100 players of all time is to separate them by gender and pre-open era vs. open era players (Top 25 of each).

So here is my top 100 using this more streamlined technique. However, I am fairly ignorant on the comparative greatness of pre-open era stars so I will leave it to someone more knowledgeable to fill in the blanks :grin:

Top 25 Open Era Males
1. Roger Federer
2. Rafael Nadal
3. Pete Sampras
4. Rod Laver
5. Bjorn Borg
6. Novak Djokovic (based on where I think he will end up in his career)
7. Ivan Lendl
8. John McEnroe
9. Jimmy Connors
10. Andre Agassi
11. Boris Becker
12. Stefan Edberg
13. Mats Wilander
14. John Newcombe
15. Guillermo Vilas
16. Jim Courier
17. Arthur Ashe
18. Ilie Nastase
19. Andy Murray
20. Lleyton Hewitt
21. Yevgeny Kafelnikov
22. Stan Smith
23. Jan Kodes
24. Gustavo Kuerten
25. Patrick Rafter

Top 25 Open Era Females
1. Steffi Graf
2. Serena Williams (Like with Djokovic, based on future projection)
3. Martina Navratilova
4. Chris Evert
5. Margaret Court
6. Billy Jean King
7. Monica Seles
8. Justine Henin
9. Venus Williams
10. Evonne Goolagong
11. Martina Hingis
12. Arantxa Sánchez Vicario
13. Hana Mandlíková
14. Maria Sharapova
15. Virginia Wade
16. Lindsay Davenport
17. Kim Clijsters
18. Tracy Austin
19. Jennifer Capriati
20. Mary Pierce
21. Li Na
22. Amelie Mauresmo
23. Petra Kvitova
24. Gabriela Sabbitini
25. Jana Novotna

Top 25 Pre-Open Era Males
Please fill in blanks

Top 25 Pre-Open Era Females
Please fill in blanks

 

[Chico]

Good lists with one exception. Graf is not #1. The highest she can be placed is #5 below Serena, Navratilova, Evert and Court.

 

[cc0509]

Good lists with one exception. Graf is not #1. The highest she can be placed is #5 below Serena, Navratilova, Evert and Court.

Are you insane? With 22 slams and the Calendar Year Golden Slam? I am not a Graf fan but don't be ridiculous!

 

[triforce defender]

Good lists with one exception. Graf is not #1. The highest she can be placed is #5 below Serena, Navratilova, Evert and Court.

While I agree with you that the Seles stabbing incident was very tragic, I am not going to drop Graf simply for that reason, ok? Graf's achievements are too impressive to drop her out of the top 3 at the very least.

 

[Chico]

Are you insane? With 22 slams and the Calendar Year Golden Slam? I am not a Graf fan but don't be ridiculous!

11 of those 22 have asterisk. With Seles around and not scarred for life after 1993, Graf would not win more than 15-16 slams.

 

[cc0509]

11 of those 22 have asterisk.

Sure they do! (not) Some of your posts are seriously embarrassing. You can't change history. Things may have been different if Seles were not stabbed but she WAS stabbed and was never the same and Graf took advantage as any sane person would. Not her fault. Graf's achievements are still mindboggling despite her weak competition.

 

[AngieB]

11 of those 22 have asterisk. With Seles around and not scarred for life after 1993, Graf would not win more than 15-16 slams.

Chico,

The ITF and ITHOF did not place asterisks beside Steffi's name so who do you think you are attempting to do what is impossible? Need a hug, hun?

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB
​

 

[cc0509]

Chico,

The ITF and ITHOF did not place asterisks beside Steffi's name so who do you think you are attempting to do what is impossible? Need a hug, hun?

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB
​

He is overly fond of the Iron Curtain country players.

 

[triforce defender]

Where are the knowledgeable individuals able to fill in the other 50 spots??????

 

[Deleted member 307496]

As I have mentioned in another thread, I think the best way to rank the top 100 players of all time is to separate them by gender and pre-open era vs. open era players (Top 25 of each).

So here is my top 100 using this more streamlined technique. However, I am fairly ignorant on the comparative greatness of pre-open era stars so I will leave it to someone more knowledgeable to fill in the blanks :grin:

Top 25 Open Era Males
1. Roger Federer
2. Rafael Nadal
3. Pete Sampras
4. Rod Laver
5. Bjorn Borg
6. Novak Djokovic (based on where I think he will end up in his career)
7. Ivan Lendl
8. John McEnroe
9. Jimmy Connors
10. Andre Agassi
11. Boris Becker
12. Stefan Edberg
13. Mats Wilander
14. John Newcombe
15. Guillermo Vilas
16. Jim Courier
17. Arthur Ashe
18. Ilie Nastase
19. Andy Murray
20. Lleyton Hewitt
21. Yevgeny Kafelnikov
22. Stan Smith
23. Jan Kodes
24. Gustavo Kuerten
25. Patrick Rafter

Top 25 Open Era Females
1. Steffi Graf
2. Serena Williams (Like with Djokovic, based on future projection)
3. Martina Navratilova
4. Chris Evert
5. Margaret Court
6. Billy Jean King
7. Monica Seles
8. Justine Henin
9. Venus Williams
10. Evonne Goolagong
11. Martina Hingis
12. Arantxa Sánchez Vicario
13. Hana Mandlíková
14. Maria Sharapova
15. Virginia Wade
16. Lindsay Davenport
17. Kim Clijsters
18. Tracy Austin
19. Jennifer Capriati
20. Mary Pierce
21. Li Na
22. Amelie Mauresmo
23. Petra Kvitova
24. Gabriela Sabbitini
25. Jana Novotna

Top 25 Pre-Open Era Males
Please fill in blanks

Top 25 Pre-Open Era Females
Please fill in blanks

Murray over Hewitt, Kuerten under Hewitt and Murray? :lol:

 

[cc0509]

]Murray over Hewitt[/B], Kuerten under Hewitt and Murray? :lol:

Murray and Hewitt are pretty much interchangeable. Who really cares?

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Murray and Hewitt are pretty much interchangeable. Who really cares?

Because of this same posters other thread indicating Hewitt is "overrated".

 

[Djokovic2011]

Murray and Hewitt are pretty much interchangeable. Who really cares?

They could both realistically be above Kuerten imo.

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

Good lists with one exception. Graf is not #1. The highest she can be placed is #5 below Serena, Navratilova, Evert and Court.

Graf won Golden slam in a single year (1988) hard to argue against stats like that...

I Think you could make a case for Navratilova and Court being better than Martina, But for evert its harder..let alone serena.. she needs more titles outside majors...

I dont think Its fair to make estimations for Serena and Novak... you could pretty much make a case for nadal reaching/surpassing fed too.. and many others... Murray for example going further up in the list.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Graf won Golden slam in a single year (1988) hard to argue against stats like that...

I Think you could make a case for Navratilova and Court being better than Martina, But for evert its harder..let alone serena.. she needs more titles outside majors...

I dont think Its fair to make estimations for Serena and Novak... you could pretty much make a case for nadal reaching/surpassing fed too.. and many others... Murray for example going further up in the list.

The first line of the second paragraph makes no sense at all.

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

The first line of the second paragraph makes no sense at all.

Why no? would you care to elaborate?

 

[cc0509]

Because of this same posters other thread indicating Hewitt is "overrated".

I think Hewitt is rightfully rated in the same tier as Murray. Hewitt has the number one stats and YEC titles and Murray has the OG and more Masters 1000 titles. It is really a wash. Flip a coin.

 

[Man of steel]

Graf won Golden slam in a single year (1988) hard to argue against stats like that...

I Think you could make a case for Navratilova and Court being better than Martina, But for evert its harder..let alone serena.. she needs more titles outside majors...

I dont think Its fair to make estimations for Serena and Novak... you could pretty much make a case for nadal reaching/surpassing fed too.. and many others... Murray for example going further up in the list.

Lol why would serena need more titles outside majors. No one will rank her any higher if she just wins premier mandatories, P5's or Premier titles from now on without any majors. All that matters is the slams and the WTF's and weeks at no1. She is already the leader in premier mandatories and p5's with 20 anyway and those are the equivalent to master titles.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Why no? would you care to elaborate?

You wrote that Navratilova and Court have a case for being above Martina. Surely you didn't mean Hingis?

 

[Man of steel]

You wrote that Navratilova and Court have a case for being above Martina. Surely you didn't mean Hingis?

I think he meant steffi as martina

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

You wrote that Navratilova and Court have a case for being above Martina. Surely you didn't mean Hingis?

Sorry for the typo I meant serena :twisted:

Wouldnt you agree? How do you rate them?

Big 5 in women's tennis is

Court, Graf, Navratilova, Evert and Serena...

How'd you rank them?

I'd rank them

1) Graf
2) Court
3) Navratilova
4) Evert
5) Serena

1-3 are pretty much interchangeable...

 

[Djokovic2011]

Sorry for the typo I meant serena :twisted:

Wouldnt you agree? How do you rate them?

Big 5 in women's tennis is

Court, Graf, Navratilova, Evert and Serena...

How'd you rank them?

I'd rank them

1) Graf
2) Court
3) Navratilova
4) Evert
5) Serena

1-3 are pretty much interchangeable...

Graf
Navratilova
Court
Evert
Serena

If we go purely on stats then I guess Graf has to be 1. However if we take into account competition and other factors then 1-3 are indeed interchangeable.

 

[Chico]

Graf can never be #1. Sorry.

 

[cc0509]

Graf can never be #1. Sorry.

She IS number one and by a huge margin. I couldn't stand her but it is what it is.

 

[Man of steel]

Graf
Navratilova
Court
Evert
Serena

If we go purely on stats then I guess Graf has to be 1. However if we take into account competition and other factors then 1-3 are indeed interchangeable.

No if you base it on stats then court would be no 1 undisputably.
If other factors come in then what other factors would they be? If your bringing in factors how biased is each one going to be to a particular player then?
If factors come in then all 5 are interchangeable

 

[Djokovic2011]

She IS number one and by a huge margin. I couldn't stand her but it is what it is.

Lol, at least that's one thing we have in common cc0! :wink:

 

[Chico]

No Parche and dagger, and Graf wins no more than 16 slams. She is no GOAT and can never be the GOAT nor #1. Sorry.

Serena, Navratilova, Evert and Court are all waaaaaay above her.
How many slams would Navratilova have if, got forbid, someone did to Evert what was done to Seles? 30 at least.

 

[Djokovic2011]

No if you base it on stats then court would be no 1 undisputably.
If other factors come in then what other factors would they be? If your bringing in factors how biased is each one going to be to a particular player then?
If factors come in then all 5 are interchangeable

One of the factors being if the Seles stabbing hadn't occurred then Navratilova would be #1, possibly even Court. Personally I think Serena has to win at least 2 more majors to be ahead of Martina and Chris. Don't forget those two players also have 10 more slam finals and many more weeks at #1 not to mention far greater day in, day out consistency(especially in the case of Evert).

 

[Grgisme]

Of course she's no goat, she's a human being

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

She IS number one and by a huge margin. I couldn't stand her but it is what it is.

This...

But we could argue that IF Seles was never stabbed Graf - Seles would have ended up with an h2h as loopsided as Federer-Nadal and probably equal slam count..


I estimate is Graf had to deal with Seles her whole career she would have ended with 15-18 slams... in Navratilova, Evert and Serena territory... She surely overachieved thanks to the stabbing incident ....... I think Seles would have ended with minimum 13-15+ slams if she was healthy her whole career..

 

[cc0509]

Lol, at least that's one thing we have in common cc0! :wink:

Yes, but as much as I dislike Graf I dislike Navratilova even more.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Yes, but as much as I dislike Graf I dislike Navratilova even more.

You never did explain the other day why you find her to be such a horrible person cc0. :?

 

[cc0509]

This...

But we could argue that IF Seles was never stabbed Graf - Seles would have ended up with an h2h as loopsided as Federer-Nadal and probably equal slam count..


I estimate is Graf had to deal with Seles her whole career she would have ended with 15-18 slams... in Navratilova, Evert and Serena territory... She surely overachieved thanks to the stabbing incident ....... I think Seles would have ended with minimum 13-15+ slams if she was healthy her whole career..

I agree things would have probably been different if Seles were not stabbed but we can't go by "what ifs" only by what did happen. What Graf was able to accomplish was scary good. That crazy Peter Graf probably had something to do with that whole Parche thing.

 

[cc0509]

You never did explain the other day why you find her to be such a horrible person cc0. :?

I did explain it. I think she is an attention seeker and an over the top narcissist. I preferred Evert.

 

[Djokovic2011]

I agree things would have probably been different if Seles were not stabbed but we can't go by "what ifs" only by what did happen. What Graf was able to accomplish was scary good. That crazy Peter Graf probably had something to do with that whole Parche thing.

Ooh - controversial!! :shock:

 

[Djokovic2011]

I did explain it. I think she is an attention seeker and an over the top narcissist. I preferred Evert.

You can't deny that she's also done a lot of good for homeless children and gay people over the years cc0, especially things like AIDS awareness organisations. After all, nobody's perfect babe. :?

 

[Man of steel]

One of the factors being if the Seles stabbing hadn't occurred then Navratilova would be #1, possibly even Court. Personally I think Serena has to win at least 2 more majors to be ahead of Martina and Chris. Don't forget those two players also have 10 more slam finals and many more weeks at #1 not to mention far greater day in, day out consistency(especially in the case of Evert).

Serena will probably pass evert in weeks at no 1 as she only has to stay there till pre or post wimbledon. She's ahead of evert in WTF's and is only 3 behind martina. Steffi only has 5 aswell.
A factor that i could easily say elevates serena is the greater depth and competition of the field. It isn't the days of the 70's and 80's where over half of the Top 100 are americans. And considering the fact that the FO's and AO in the past are the equivalent of P5's and premier titles in that you only had to play 5 matches instead of 7 well....

 

[Deleted member 307496]

I think Hewitt is rightfully rated in the same tier as Murray. Hewitt has the number one stats and YEC titles and Murray has the OG and more Masters 1000 titles. It is really a wash. Flip a coin.

I agree, but due to his time at No. 1 I'd rate Hewitt slightly above Murray. When and if Murray wins another slam he will then (in my eyes) be above Hewitt.

I also think Kuerten should be ahead of both and Rafter should be ahead of Kafelnikov. The whole list is a mess.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Serena will probably pass evert in weeks at no 1 as she only has to stay there till pre or post wimbledon. She's ahead of evert in WTF's and is only 3 behind martina. Steffi only has 5 aswell.
A factor that i could easily say elevates serena is the greater depth and competition of the field. It isn't the days of the 70's and 80's where over half of the Top 100 are americans. And considering the fact that the FO's and AO in the past are the equivalent of P5's and premier titles in that you only had to play 5 matches instead of 7 well....

That's true and is also a valid point. But another thing is that Serena only has 64 singles titles overall. Now I'm aware that many of the smaller titles that Chris and Martina won back in the day had rather questionable competition and probably weren't even on the level of a modern day 250 event but ultimately they all count. I'm not saying that Serena has to win anywhere near 160 titles but if she were to get to around 75-80 it would look much better for her resume in my opinion.

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

One of the factors being if the Seles stabbing hadn't occurred then Navratilova would be #1, possibly even Court. Personally I think Serena has to win at least 2 more majors to be ahead of Martina and Chris. Don't forget those two players also have 10 more slam finals and many more weeks at #1 not to mention far greater day in, day out consistency(especially in the case of Evert).

I like your posts.

I agree ... I think Graf hardly would have reached 18 slams with Seles in the picture... Its would have been the same case for federer ... If something happened to Nadal back after 2009 AO win.. He would have ended up with an inflated slam count, just like happened with Steffi..

How many would have Stefi won? How many MOnica would have?

We will never know.. certainly higher than 9 for Monica... I bet they both would have ended with about the same slam count... going from 16-18 slams...

MOnica was stabbed during French Open 1993... she when she just won 7 out of the last 9 slams.. and played finals in 8 out of the last 9.... the only slam where she didnt play finals or win she was absent...


Graf will never be legitimate goat... Right before Seles stabbing graf leaded 11-9 in the GS race...

But if we look at 1991-1992 and early 1993 Monica was ahead 7-2 slam trophies
Right after the stabbing Steffi takes advantage and wins the 3 slams of the year where Monica couldnt compete... Its more clear than water... Steffi wasnt ending with more thams than the balkan player..

 

[pc1]

Viable players for pre open era for the men-1920 onward for top 25.
Tilden
Cochet
Lacoste
Borotra
Nusslein
Perry
Vines
Don Budge
Hoad
Sedgman
Trabert
Segura
Riggs
Kramer
Gonzalez
Drobny
Santana
Emerson
Gimeno
Rosewall
Laver
Wilding
Mcloughlin
Bill Johnston
Jack Crawford
Dick Williams
Frank Kovacs
Bromwich
Norman Brookes
von Cramm
Frank Parker
Budge Patty
Neale Fraser
Ted Schoeder
Olmedo
Don McNeill
Mal Anderson
Ashley Cooper
Seixas
Budge Patty

Probably forgot a number of players. I once did a thread I think on great returners and forgot to put Agassi in! Anyway I think you can get a decent list from here of pre-open top twenty-five players from 1920 onward. A number of great players can be named before than also.

I think locks for the top twenty-five should be Gonzalez, Laver, Vines, Kramer, Tilden, Rosewall, Riggs, Don Budge, Cochet, Lacoste and Perry.

 

[AngieB]

Kids, I don't know where the discussion in this thread is going by I'm saying Laver and Margaret/Steffi until Serena retires, for now. Go bye.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOZPBUu7Fro

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​

 

[Man of steel]

I like your posts.

I agree ... I think Graf hardly would have reached 18 slams with Seles in the picture... Its would have been the same case for federer ... If something happened to Nadal back after 2009 AO win.. He would have ended up with an inflated slam count, just like happened with Steffi..

How many would have Stefi won? How many MOnica would have?

We will never know.. certainly higher than 9 for Monica... I bet they both would have ended with about the same slam count... going from 16-18 slams...

MOnica was stabbed during French Open 1993... she when she just won 7 out of the last 9 slams.. and played finals in 8 out of the last 9.... the only slam where she didnt play finals or win she was absent...


Graf will never be legitimate goat... Right before Seles stabbing graf leaded 11-9 in the GS race...

But if we look at 1991-1992 and early 1993 Monica was ahead 7-2 slam trophies
Right after the stabbing Steffi takes advantage and wins the 3 slams of the year where Monica couldnt compete... Its more clear than water... Steffi wasnt ending with more thams than the balkan player..

Its a crime what happened to monica. Comparing her first 14 slams played to everyone elses she has 8 slams!! 8/14 slams won. Evert only had 5, steffi 1, venus 2, hingis 4, and martina 0. Thats ridiculous. And that most likely wasn't her prime. All before she was 19. TEENs!!! People who say the seles stabbing didn't affect grafs or other peoples slam count in that era are kidding themselves.
Most likely graf wouldn't have her 22. Vicario wouldn't have her 4 as the majority are FO's which seles dominated. Parche got exactly what he wanted.

 

[The_Mental_Giant]

Its a crime what happened to monica. Comparing her first 14 slams played to everyone elses she has 8 slams!! 8/14 slams won. Evert only had 5, steffi 1, venus 2, hingis 4, and martina 0. Thats ridiculous. And that most likely wasn't her prime. All before she was 19. TEENs!!! People who say the seles stabbing didn't affect grafs or other peoples slam count in that era are kidding themselves.
Most likely graf wouldn't have her 22. Vicario wouldn't have her 4 as the majority are FO's which seles dominated. Parche got exactly what he wanted.

I agree.. Seles was truly goat potential... Its impressive how she came back after sugery and reached finals at USO 1995... I think she could have packed more slams than we can even count if she didnt had the misfortune...

Monica had potential to 18+ slams... Steffi deflated after the 1992/1992 after being dominated by Seles... I think Graf wasnt going beyond 15... good job parshe...

 

[CrackedRacket]

OP please explain how Na, Kvitova, Sabatini, and Novotna are greater than Azarenka? Pierce as well..

Did you just forget her?

 

[Wynter]

Safin>Rafter perhaps?

Kuerten > Hewitt and Murray imo

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Good lists with one exception. Graf is not #1. The highest she can be placed is #5 below Serena, Navratilova, Evert and Court.

Please stop. This could have potentially been a good thread.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

He is overly fond of the Iron Curtain country players.

I think this may sum it up well. :-|

There is nothing wrong with Djokovic or Martina, but we don't want to be delusional.

 

[NatF]

Safin and Roddick > Rafter and Kafelnikov

 

[Man of steel]

OP please explain how Na, Kvitova, Sabatini, and Novotna are greater than Azarenka? Pierce as well..

Did you just forget her?

Yeah Azarenka should be well ahead of these players