G
grandslamchamp
Guest
Northerly,You are even more OBSESSED that I initially thought.Northerly said:
W
williams planet
Guest
very true indeed.grandslamchamp said:
G
grandslamchamp
Guest
the Graffanatics are a pretty sad bunch.
T
tennisballz
Guest
Like I said...Seles was more SUPERIOR than Graf...move on!Northerly said:
W
williams planet
Guest
And that is why Seles was ranked number one and Graf number two?Northerly said:
LOL.
T
tennisballz
Guest
Of course, Seles was better than Graf during these years ... the #1 ranking and the fact that Seles won 9 out of the 11 biggest titles during those 30 months leading up to the stabbing. Of course, Seles was better than Graf.williams planet said:And that is why Seles was ranked number one and Graf number two?
G
grandslamchamp
Guest
and you are Graf's german shepherd? Your comments are so idiotic LOL.klaw said:
I just pity both Seles & Graf. Seles for her stabbing and not able to reach her full potential in winning more majors. And Graf for having her achievements undermined by the what "if" seles was not stabbed. If I am Graf, I would rather be stabbed too!!! Not only is it an insult to Graf's achievements, it is also an insult to the rest of the top 10 during Graf's era who cannot prevent her from winning besides Seles who could prior to the stabbing. It's just a terrible lose-lose situation for women's tennis.
W
williams planet
Guest
Exactly, that is why the 1993 HORRIFIC attack on Seles by a so called tennis fan was a big tragedy that shocked the sports world. It was NOT Graf's fault that Seles was stabbed BUT the Graf fans should not be so DISMISSIVE of the fact that it did change the course of women's tennis history.ctbmar said:
In the end, both Monica and Steffi are great champions in their own right.
and yours aren't? it's interesting that you joined one day after tennisballz, post in the same threads and blatantly support him/help raise his point. It's also interesting that you two quote and respond to each other within 1 minute. Such coincidencegrandslamchamp said:and you are Graf's german shepherd? Your comments are so idiotic LOL.
grandslamchamp said:
grandslamchamp said:
grandslamchamp said:
It appears as though you, who have posted 24 posts on seles in less than 12 hours are the obsessed one.grandslamchamp said:
G
grandslamchamp
Guest
And obviously that psychotic obsessed fan that is YOU has a new screename. How much more idiotic can you get? LOLZ.klaw said:
LendlFan
Semi-Pro
Steve Dykstra said:
You are correct in that assumption .. and don't be surprised to see more post under different names .. He/She is absolutely obsessed with this Graf v Seles thing. I mean enough already .... both women are living their lives quite comfortably and history is already laid. Nothing said here is going to change that.
If Steffi didn't have her skiing accident and father's imprisonment .. maybe she would have captured another Slam Title to tie with Helen Wills Moody.. Oh if only we could go back in time and change that ..
Kevin Patrick
Hall of Fame
What skiing accident?
The tennis guy
Hall of Fame
Graf's father's tax evasion is equivalent of Seles got stabbed during official WTA match?
Sometimes, I just don't understand how someone can make that argument.
Sometimes, I just don't understand how someone can make that argument.
LendlFan
Semi-Pro
Kevin Patrick said:
I can't find the information but Steffi had a skiing accident which I recall broke or sprained her thumb ??? I truly believe she broke her thumb ... anyway, I'll keep looking for the info .. I can't even remember what year it was but it took her off the tour for a several months.
W
wtaplayerz
Guest
Graff became the number 1 again with the stabbing, there will always be an asterisk to every GS win from 1993 on. Why? Cause Seles dominated the tour from spring 1990 to spring 1993 (this is 3 years - to those who cannot count, I didn't say 3 years and 4 months, because it wasn't before spring 90 when Seles won all the majors). She was younger, better and had more areas in her game to improve than the older Graff.
Seles became the number one by her own strength and on the court. Graff didn't in 1993.
And once and for all - Graff had a much better average than the others in 88 cause the others were totally inconsistent. And Graff was not in 1992. As I said, she was a good number 2 and therefore was not hundreds of points behind Seles - "only" 2 to 3 Grand Slam victories a year - fair enough.
Seles didn't win much after the stabbing, sure, but I'm not discussing this issue because if someone cannot see the impact of such an attack (especially psychologically) due to lack of knowledge in this matter there's no point in discussing the issue. It's a miracle that she ever came back at all after this and IMO she would have become the number 1 again anyway had her dad not passed away in 1998.
Seles became the number one by her own strength and on the court. Graff didn't in 1993.
And once and for all - Graff had a much better average than the others in 88 cause the others were totally inconsistent. And Graff was not in 1992. As I said, she was a good number 2 and therefore was not hundreds of points behind Seles - "only" 2 to 3 Grand Slam victories a year - fair enough.
Seles didn't win much after the stabbing, sure, but I'm not discussing this issue because if someone cannot see the impact of such an attack (especially psychologically) due to lack of knowledge in this matter there's no point in discussing the issue. It's a miracle that she ever came back at all after this and IMO she would have become the number 1 again anyway had her dad not passed away in 1998.
W
wtaplayerz
Guest
From 1990 to 1993 Monica had more success than Graff on any surface except for grass. Open you record books. And without the stabbing it would have become Seles on any surface.Northerly said:
LendlFan
Semi-Pro
wtaplayerz said:
ARE YOU A COMPLETE LOSER ?
I'd say grow up but you obviously have no clue as to how ... Try very hard to find something esle to do with your life .. ask your mommy if you can help her with the dishes or take out the trash, maybe wash the car or walk the dog, or why don't you try picking up a tennis racquet and hit a few balls against the wall ... but you posting with all of these alias names don't fool anybody ... fool
W
wtaplayerz
Guest
I find it so pathetic that when someone disagrees with your delusional opinions on Steffi's greatness that you resort to insults....This to me highlight either a huge lack of intelligence, manners or most likely both. It's a discussion board where people give their OPINIONS...They are allowed to disagree with you!LendlFan said:
tennis4losers
Semi-Pro
tennisballz said:
this guy is G@Y
W
williams planet
Guest
Why? have you gone to bed together? LOLZ. :mrgreen:tennis4losers said:
W
williams planet
Guest
Then that would enraged further rabid Graf fans like yourself. jk LOLZ. :mrgreen:Rickson said:
T
tennisballz
Guest
Gee, Oscar dream on. Seles was the superior player than your german Garf without the stabbing. And Everybody knows it. I guess the TRUTH is hard to swallow huh?Oscar said:
W
williams planet
Guest
Here's an interesting comment for all the Seles and Graf fans from Legendary Tennis Historian Bud Collins.
Graf had dominated the game for three years running and the German was so lethal that it was hard to imagine anyone pushing her off the court. But the fearless Seles swung from her hips and punched right through Graf, 7-6 (6), 6-4.
I was as wide-eyed as Steffi was at Monica's power and precision.
While their 1992 French Open women's singles final, which ended with a 10-8 third-set win for Seles, may have been more dramatic, it didn’t knock my socks off like Monica’s first run to the title.
I still believe that if a madman had not stabbed Seles on court in early 1994 she would have ended up being the best player ever.
So, the Seles fans were right after all:mrgreen:
Graf had dominated the game for three years running and the German was so lethal that it was hard to imagine anyone pushing her off the court. But the fearless Seles swung from her hips and punched right through Graf, 7-6 (6), 6-4.
I was as wide-eyed as Steffi was at Monica's power and precision.
While their 1992 French Open women's singles final, which ended with a 10-8 third-set win for Seles, may have been more dramatic, it didn’t knock my socks off like Monica’s first run to the title.
I still believe that if a madman had not stabbed Seles on court in early 1994 she would have ended up being the best player ever.
So, the Seles fans were right after all:mrgreen:
T
tennisballz
Guest
Ignore ? Hilarious! and yet little Noelle just can't control this obsessive compulsive behavior to come back for more. lol,lol,lolzNoelle said:Ignore list, people. Use it well.
T
tennisballz
Guest
williams planet said:
Without a doubt, Seles was better!
G
grandslamchamp
Guest
Yup, the tennis experts are soooo right!williams planet said:
Seles was better as she dominated by winning 8 of 12 slams contested at the peak of her rivalry with Graf who only manage to win 2. And of course, Seles was the undisputed unchallenged #1.
slack hack
Rookie
Seles was just starting to adjust to her growth spurt and that lefty serve was just starting to be a weapon. No one to this day hits the ball as hard and close to the lines with so few UE's. It was making Graf's already late forehand preperation seem more and more rushed.
I think Seles would've won that Wimby title over Graf, had she not been so focused on stifling the grunt. She was barely hitting the ball !!!
Way to go whiny a**ed Martina !!!
I think Seles would've won that Wimby title over Graf, had she not been so focused on stifling the grunt. She was barely hitting the ball !!!
Way to go whiny a**ed Martina !!!
federerhoogenbandfan
Banned
grandslamchamp said:
This statement is a joke. Graf even before the stabbing was clearly established as one of the top 10 players of all time. She had 11 grand slams which put her #7 on the all-time list at that point, she almost certainly would have won atleast the 2 slams she needed to pass King/Lenglen who each had 12, to move to #5 all-time which would put her no lower than #6 all-time even if Seles passed her in slams won. There are other factors in determining all-time greats than # of slam wons, but Graf had already won the Golden Slam in 88, and set a record for consecutive weeks ranked #1 between June 87-March 91. Tell me, who are the 10+ players that you would believe would be rated above Graf had Seles not been stabbed.
federerhoogenbandfan
Banned
slack hack said:
Yeah and you just keep dreaming that.
G
grandslamchamp
Guest
Steffi won 11 Slams since the stabbing of Monica Seles.federerhoogenbandfan said:
Take away the ones she had not been able to win with Seles competing before having her career devastated by the knife of one of Graf's fans and you only have 3 since Seles was stabbed. That would leave Steffi with 14.
Monica Seles was never the player after her return that she was before the stabbing ... and anybody who has paid attention to tennis in these last 15 years would know that.
The only Slam that Graf had a good chance of winning with Seles in the form she was in during those years 1991, 1992 and 1993 before the stabbing was Wimbledon .. so, a good argument could be made that Graf at her best and Seles at her best throughout the 1990s would have brought Graf only a total of 14 Slam -- the 9 Slams Graf won before Seles' dominance began + the 5 Wimbledons Graf won after Seles' dominance began.
W
williams planet
Guest
While no player thoroughly dominated Graf, one player other than Graf dominated womens tennis from 91- early 93. Monica Seles.
She made 11 finals in WTA champs, GS titles out of a possible 12 tournaments (didn't enter 91 Wimbledon)
Graf made 4 out 12 finals in the same period (skipped '91 AO?)
So while they did not PLAY each other in alot of the major tournaments of that time , it goes without saying that during that time,
Seles was the dominant player on hardcourts (91 92 USO champ)
Seles was the dominant player on clay (91-93 FO champ)
Seles was the dominant palyer on indoor carpet (90-92 WTA champ)
Seles was the dominant player on rebound (91-93 AO champ)
And in the same period, 1989-1993, Seles had a 3-1 edge on Graf for GS finals (2 FO, 1 W, 1 A-O)
So until her stabbing, Seles had a 4-3 career matchplay edge on Graf......
She made 11 finals in WTA champs, GS titles out of a possible 12 tournaments (didn't enter 91 Wimbledon)
Graf made 4 out 12 finals in the same period (skipped '91 AO?)
So while they did not PLAY each other in alot of the major tournaments of that time , it goes without saying that during that time,
Seles was the dominant player on hardcourts (91 92 USO champ)
Seles was the dominant player on clay (91-93 FO champ)
Seles was the dominant palyer on indoor carpet (90-92 WTA champ)
Seles was the dominant player on rebound (91-93 AO champ)
And in the same period, 1989-1993, Seles had a 3-1 edge on Graf for GS finals (2 FO, 1 W, 1 A-O)
So until her stabbing, Seles had a 4-3 career matchplay edge on Graf......
federerhoogenbandfan
Banned
grandslamchamp said:
You still have not answered my question, who are the 10 or more female players that would be better than Graf all-time even if the Seles stabbing had not taken place, after all werent your original words "not even in the top 10 without the stabbing"?. You give her 14 slams? Fine, I am not willing to get in an argument at this point, thats your number; but 14 total slams and
things she had accomplished before the stabbing(grand slam in 88, 7 of 8 slams in 88-89, 186 consecutive weeks at #1, atleast 1 slam every year from 6 straight years 87-92) still easily put her in the top 10 all-time, and possably the top 5. There are certainly not 10 or more women who have won 15+ slams, nor 10 or more woman who have won 7 slams in a 2 year span at any point in their careers. I would very much like to see your list of 10+ woman that would have been higher all-time than Steffi without the stabbing according to you. Thanks.
G
grandslamchamp
Guest
Steve Dykstra said:
There was no guarantee that Seles wouldn't ... and the FACT remains that Seles won 10 of the 12 biggest events in women's tennis in those 30 months leading up to the stabbing --- EVERY major event in women's tennis other than Wimbledon between the 1990 WTA Championships and the 1993 Australian Open.
The way Seles beat Steffi Graf to win the 1993 Australian Open for a 3rd consecutive singles title there certainly did not suggest that Seles was close to ending her dominance.
It took a knife in the hands of Guenther Parche to stop Monica's dominance.
W
williams planet
Guest
The way Serena won her Serena slam suggested there was no way her dominance would stop, yet it did.grandslamchamp said:
Similar threads
