BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Show me one person that claimed they are now hitting with a "Federer forehand" after switching to the K90.Oh yeah, just curious, how many people here at hitting with a Federer forhand now after switching?
I thought so.
n(k)Six-One Tour 90 - Are you kidding me?
- Thread starter Bottle Rocket
- Start date
I thought so.
bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
I haven't used a Wilson since my Wilson Sting in grade school. Not because I have anything against Wilson, but because I happened to find frames I was comfortable with that were not Wilson.
I joined this forum about a month ago. I cannot believe the hysteria surrounding Wilson frames (either pro-Wilson, or anti-Wilson) on this site.
What gives?
I joined this forum about a month ago. I cannot believe the hysteria surrounding Wilson frames (either pro-Wilson, or anti-Wilson) on this site.
What gives?
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
Honestly, i did not think the n90 was demanding, it's WAY easier to play with than prestiges. If not the easiest racquet to play with, especially those with similar specs. And i wouldn't call n90 to be very low powered. But like someone else said, two to three years of tennis is not enough for someone to start using a n/k90... Most beginners have a hard time fine-tuning their backhands into an actual weapon, or the very least, a rally sustainer. If you find yourself consistently doing a sorry *** defensive slice for a backhand, then you're not ready for anything below 95sq inches/23mm. A radical-like racquet is borderline for you.
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VikingSamurai
Banned
You and me both would like to know?.. Wilson is just another brand.. But some people either love it or hate it?..
ShooterMcMarco
Hall of Fame
Young Pete
Professional
you think the ncode 90 is tough why don't you try the yellow tour 90. you will be crying in pain. LOL!! but you know what try a ps 85 6.0 and you will see it swings much easier than the ncode and yellow tour 90. while ur at it use a st. vincent so u know what i mean.
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I would rephrase that. I hit a ton of slice BH's it allows me to attack the net especially on people that have to get extra low because they have 2HBH's, slice's kill them. Maybe say if you find your self hitting a sorry *** slice that goes 12 feet over the net and bounces 3 feet in the air and stops instead of skimming the net and skipping 1 inch off the court...
Duzza
Legend
Well that's ok then. Better late than never hey?
federer_nadal
Professional
POsers.
Any racqet that Fed plays with people are going to flock to. Props to him for increasing the revenues of Wilson.
Oh yeah, just curious, how many people here at hitting with a Federer forhand now after switching?
What racquet do you use?
I don't blame you for being so negative about this racquet. After 3 weeks i play with the Asian K90 (yes it's lighter 320g, I added about 20g of lead), 1 Wilson Pro Overgrip (5g) and ALU Power (15g) and the racquet is AWSOME. I don't care if it's Wilson K-Federer or K-Naldal or K-Roddick whatever, All i care is my tennis strokes just so consistency in return, serve, volley.. I hit with many Asian Pros in the club and all of them told me that my shots much heavier than before.
One thing to pay attention that you must have the right technique to play with this racquet. I hit the ball very early and on the rise with very relax arm on both sides, I use the racquet momentum does on the work so my shot alot more consistency and effortless. A few pros tried my racquet and they could not produce the results like I this. The reason for that b/c they use to muscle the ball with lots of top spins so they felt the racquet heavy for them. To me, It seem just a perfect weapon. I will have my US K90 and US K95 arrive on the 24 this month, I hope it would produce the same result that I've been getting for the past 3 weeks with the Asian K90.
So look at your techniques and don't blame the racquet. It is a wonderful racquet regardless whoever made it or whoever play with it. BE OPEN MIND.
Thank to this forum I learned the SW2 and lose string tension. I tried it. What the worse case I just cut the string, take off the lead and back to normal. I used to play at 58lb, then I tried 50lb. For me, it's much much better at 50lb with Luxilon ALU Power. I have alot more spin and produce the sharp angle in both sides and best of all more power and easier on my arm...
Jet Li
One thing to pay attention that you must have the right technique to play with this racquet. I hit the ball very early and on the rise with very relax arm on both sides, I use the racquet momentum does on the work so my shot alot more consistency and effortless. A few pros tried my racquet and they could not produce the results like I this. The reason for that b/c they use to muscle the ball with lots of top spins so they felt the racquet heavy for them. To me, It seem just a perfect weapon. I will have my US K90 and US K95 arrive on the 24 this month, I hope it would produce the same result that I've been getting for the past 3 weeks with the Asian K90.
So look at your techniques and don't blame the racquet. It is a wonderful racquet regardless whoever made it or whoever play with it. BE OPEN MIND.
Thank to this forum I learned the SW2 and lose string tension. I tried it. What the worse case I just cut the string, take off the lead and back to normal. I used to play at 58lb, then I tried 50lb. For me, it's much much better at 50lb with Luxilon ALU Power. I have alot more spin and produce the sharp angle in both sides and best of all more power and easier on my arm...
Jet Li
I hit a ton of slices on my backhand too, it really depends on your playing style, if you are an attacking net rusher, then the backhand slice is a staple attacking shot, which will force your opponent to hit up and give you an easier first volley. and that's one of the major reasons I love the K90, excellent bite on the slice! your playing style will also be a major factor in determining your like or dislike of a smaller head size frame. If you hit with extreme grips on both sides with huge topspn, chances are you are not going to like the smaller head size. If you play with flatter shots from both wings, then you need an under powered frame, which would help to keep the ball in, since you are not hitting with enormous topspin.
Voltron
Hall of Fame
True, I also found I hit better serves with the RDS, which is HUGE for my game style. I'll be trying the K90 this week, so we'll see what happens.
Spinnage
New User
This thread has no purpose. You dont have to be a pro to enjoy the tour 90s. As i have 3 students using them and one of them has been playing for only 8 months, He is accelerating at a rapid pace and playing at almost club level. Yes, these racquet are demanding, But they govern your strokes and keep your footwork clean. I notice as a tennis instructor over many years students with smaller headed racquets have a harder time at the beginning, But in the long run they will have better strokes and footwork than those who learn their strokes on a larger racquet which lets then get away with murder without a decent technique. Tennis has gone mad with the sizes of the new racquets. Come on people if you dont like, you must have learned on a granny racquet. As for me I play with the K90 and have a long fast swing, breathtaking ohbh and 135 MPH serve. As advice to all the smaller racquet haters out there continue to hate because it just makes it easier to embarrass you in a match with your poor footwork, small compact swings, and no placement of the ball.
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drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
For once, you and I are in total agreement.
Janne
Semi-Pro
Hi Voltron, so you havent tried the K90 yet? I thought you said that you KNOW the K90 is too demanding for you? Anyway, I´m looking forward to reading your opinion on the frame.
Bottle Rocket
Hall of Fame
Definitely not you...
For everyone that is going to the "You haven't been playing long enough!" argument, that is what this is all about. That is what brought this on.
I understand there are a few people here and there that truly play their best tennis with this frame and actually do benefit from it. There may even be a few of you that have only been playing for 8 months that play well with this frame. This post is not about you!
I don't feel that this thread is pointless. I feel like all the people rushing out to buy K90's because of the hype might benefit from reading this.
nickb
Banned
TBH i have never really seen a good player at my club or around my area (UK) use a tour 90, only a few wanabees etc. I used the ncode 90 for 2 years but have recently switched to babolat for more forgiveness and giving myself a change against better players. Every single person who tried out my tour 90 said "why the hell do you play with that, the sweetspot is small, theres no power, it hurts my arm- its like a lump of wood!" If people want to use the racket its their own choice but the game of tennis has evolved and what the pros use proves this, only Federer uses a tour 90 and thats because he is the best player in the world and can play with anything. I think the tour 90's are good rackets but I had to be realistic about my choice of racket and what would help and what would hinder. Using the ncode 90 developed my swing, made me hit center and gave me consistency, now ive got those things i can dump it and be even better with a bigger headed racket!
yonexred2113
Rookie
dude your so right.......try the 001 mp tho its got a bit more pop than the mid....the mid is to hard to swing through
I can appreciate what you are saying. I know you have been repeatedly saying that your opinions are more for either beginners and/or lower NTRP rated players and also the rare members of the former group/groups that might play well with this frame (I have yet to meet one).
The funny thing is these are more typically the type of players that will listen to anything and everything on these boards. Regardless of who posts it.
Most of the players that are playing with these frames and benefitting from them, don't really care what you think (no offense). They know this is a great frame for them because they have played for a long time, know what the need from a frame, and can correctly diagnose these things for themselves.
But people will extreme grips (western) and hit with a ton of topspin (this is relative) might have trouble hitting with this frame just do to the area of the face. This could be true regardless of how skilled they are.
When I started using this frame, I really liked the way it felt when you hit the sweetspot. My groundstrokes were heavier with a little bit more velocity, albeit slightly less accurate and consistent. But the reason I switched to it was because it totally and completely alleviated any pain in my elbow. I have had tendonitis in every tendon in my hitting elbow for 10 years. Now, I have no pain, ever. I would probably benefit from less weight (my nCode tour 90 has 15 grams at 12 o'clock) and more racquet face. But then I couldn't play nearly as much as I can now. Before I would get pain after an hour and a half, now I can play for 4+ hours with no pain. Granted I have played for almost 20 years, have been a teaching pro for 7 years, with a lot of high end playing experience.
But I would also say that 10 hours of hitting, especially being relatively new to the sport, isn't enough to genuinely see whether you can't get any improvement out of hitting with a new frame. It is enough to say whether you just do or don't like the feel. But I am sure you could get some improvement in some aspect of your game (probably volleys and serve) from using this racquet. You might not see it immediately. I typically need about 4 months to properly adjust to a new frame.
I think a lot of the trouble you are getting from this frame is that your swing length might be shorter, and/or your swing speed might be on the low end. If that's the case, someone who hits like you would need to be very strong. If someone has very long fluid strokes wouldn't need to be as strong. I am not a big guy (6', 150 lbs) Players 4.0+ and above could get a lot out of this frame. Just my 2 cents...
The funny thing is these are more typically the type of players that will listen to anything and everything on these boards. Regardless of who posts it.
Most of the players that are playing with these frames and benefitting from them, don't really care what you think (no offense). They know this is a great frame for them because they have played for a long time, know what the need from a frame, and can correctly diagnose these things for themselves.
But people will extreme grips (western) and hit with a ton of topspin (this is relative) might have trouble hitting with this frame just do to the area of the face. This could be true regardless of how skilled they are.
When I started using this frame, I really liked the way it felt when you hit the sweetspot. My groundstrokes were heavier with a little bit more velocity, albeit slightly less accurate and consistent. But the reason I switched to it was because it totally and completely alleviated any pain in my elbow. I have had tendonitis in every tendon in my hitting elbow for 10 years. Now, I have no pain, ever. I would probably benefit from less weight (my nCode tour 90 has 15 grams at 12 o'clock) and more racquet face. But then I couldn't play nearly as much as I can now. Before I would get pain after an hour and a half, now I can play for 4+ hours with no pain. Granted I have played for almost 20 years, have been a teaching pro for 7 years, with a lot of high end playing experience.
But I would also say that 10 hours of hitting, especially being relatively new to the sport, isn't enough to genuinely see whether you can't get any improvement out of hitting with a new frame. It is enough to say whether you just do or don't like the feel. But I am sure you could get some improvement in some aspect of your game (probably volleys and serve) from using this racquet. You might not see it immediately. I typically need about 4 months to properly adjust to a new frame.
I think a lot of the trouble you are getting from this frame is that your swing length might be shorter, and/or your swing speed might be on the low end. If that's the case, someone who hits like you would need to be very strong. If someone has very long fluid strokes wouldn't need to be as strong. I am not a big guy (6', 150 lbs) Players 4.0+ and above could get a lot out of this frame. Just my 2 cents...
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dpfrazier
Rookie
Yes! Stroke mechanics are being glossed over in this discussion. Players with more "classic" (or perhaps anachronistic?) strokes --- closed stance, more linear swing path, flatter ball flight --- will have an entirely different experience with small-headed racquets like the K90 than players with more modern strokes. Fewer mishits, because the racquet head is in the same plane as the ball for a longer time; more velocity, because less of the racquet head speed is being translated into spin.
There are several older players at our club, both men and women, who do just fine with one variant or another of the PS90.
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
Sorry, i meant to say they do a slice backhand, because they dont know how to hit a topspin/flat backhand. You know what i mean, the slice is all they've got. Sorry if i offended those who uses a slice backhand with a purpose.
ShooterMcMarco
Hall of Fame
If a person plays with a racquet they like, and playing with that particular racquet adds to their experience of enjoying the game, I don't see anything wrong with their choice.
D
Deleted member 6835
Guest
hey man, very well said first off. but look, you cant change their minds for a couple of reasons:
A) you are talking to their ego's, not their tennis ability or them themselves
B) they wont take you seriously cuz their pride can touch the sky
anyways, i agree with you, but hey, dont bother. instead, play them, whip their asses 6-0 6-0 using a gamma big bubba, and see what they say after. Or, according to TW, see what happends to their federer-esque.
armand
Banned
Am I the only one who got that?
agreed..and laughing here because even if you do serve them up a couple bagels, they can use their highly vaunted weaponry also as an excuse
this happened to me once in a tourney.. i buried this guy, and he told me afterwards totally out of the blue 'don't feel good because you beat me today....my racquet is far more difficult to use than yours'..so you see, it can also become an excuse for losing. i think it sometimes is a lame excuse to justify losing, but often not vocalized. by way of clarification, i was playing Fischer VTPro98's back then and he was using a ps85..cracked me up..lol
chunlimeyers
Rookie
A good and valid post, hope to put light and mostly and end to it. The racquet i used previously was a 95 sq in hps 6.1(red/orange racquet). I beat my buddy 6-1, 6-2 with the 95 sq in frame. However, he had a spare tour 90 because he loved his wilson 85 original. I tested the 90 for two weeks and found the 90 to be as solid as a tank compared to the 95 i was already playing well with. My accuracy improved, and my serve spin and placement improved also. So, i eventually bought his and got 3 total. Now, i have even "upped the anty" of my game and the racquet by adding lead tape to where the one i am experimenting with is 13.5 ounces and has a mostly even balance to it(normally tour 90's are very head light frames. My game has shot up major levels again. And, my strokes and stroke production has NOT changed. However, i have let many people hit with both the not leaded and leaded frames, and 90 percent or MUCH higher say, 'how do U hit with this stick', or, "too heavy for me, i would get tired after a couple games'. These are the people the initial poster talked about. Arm swingers. And, in todays game, 'arm swinging' with these lighter frames is accepted, and taught. I have old school "federer, whom before that, was 'lendle'" strokes, and without the extra weight and small head for precision, the ball would tend to want to 'float" or 'lift' off my frame earlier and sail out. And, yes, you are right, when they see my strokes and then have hit with my frame, they know to keep their current whatever they are playing with, and realize 6 foot 2, and 195 pound physique and using the body, and not the arm, to make power, may not be coming around in their future any time soon. So, yes, you are correct in your warning about the frames. Just, hey, keep it on the down low!.. Cuz, i am waiting for that 5 foot 5, 145 pound guy to buy 3, all new, without testing them! Then, for him to hit with them for a couple days to weeks, realize he IS NOT ROGER, put them in his closet, then, a month or two later, realize he better get SOMETHING out of these frames, and sell them USED on tenniswarehouse.com classifieds so i don't have to pay FULL PRICE for what should be a minor change to the sweet spot of the racquet which will just make me a more deadly player and finally give me that nice kicker i need on my second serve. So, yes, everybody is right, and please, except for one stupid smallish dude, so i can get a cheap top notch racquet, DEMO your racquets BEFORE you buy. I will be anxiously awaiting for the rest of you suckers who do not!
p.s. And, yes, I will ALSO be demoing the newest ps, because i already know i hated the stiffness and relative lightness of the nano tour 90. It feels flimsy and lacks feel compared to the original tour 90 in my opinion. One personal reviewer said the tour 90 and the K90 felt nearly the same. And, if this is the case and i can't get any more spin out of my same stroke production, I will just retire with my tour 90's till i lose the flexibility and strength in my legs and trunk to make power.. so, I am thinking, 70 to 90 year old range, and then, it is time, for the thickest, lightest, 'newest technology', frame i can find!...haha
p.s. And, yes, I will ALSO be demoing the newest ps, because i already know i hated the stiffness and relative lightness of the nano tour 90. It feels flimsy and lacks feel compared to the original tour 90 in my opinion. One personal reviewer said the tour 90 and the K90 felt nearly the same. And, if this is the case and i can't get any more spin out of my same stroke production, I will just retire with my tour 90's till i lose the flexibility and strength in my legs and trunk to make power.. so, I am thinking, 70 to 90 year old range, and then, it is time, for the thickest, lightest, 'newest technology', frame i can find!...haha
That was close to the cockiest thing I've seen in a while.... No offense but don't let your ego get to you. Just prove it on the courts.
alfa164164
Professional
It's absolutley amazing that Federer is dominating using the n90/k90.
I think it also explains why he sometimes struggles in the wind or against Nadal's super topspin strokes. The racket is simply a piece of work.
I think it also explains why he sometimes struggles in the wind or against Nadal's super topspin strokes. The racket is simply a piece of work.
Voltron
Hall of Fame
Something like that happened to me once, but I was using the RDS 90 and he was using a *climactic silence* Flexpoint radical MP. I just laughed so hard, and told him my racquets weight and head size.
RafaN RichardG
Semi-Pro
couldn't have put this any better
ive been thinking this for a while, wondering how so many people here find this racquet so great for their ability
great thread, its about time someone called it out
Indeed..he is so good that he can overcome the frame balls/shanks <which he does do especially in the wind> he hits and still hold serve or break serve. other pros certanly cant afford to give points away like that and hope to win. he seems to also be solving Nadals' high bounding ball to his one hander....
I really dont think he is using anything close to the n90 or k90..i think his layup and weight distribution radically differs, and i think he's got a bunch more of the good stuff (graphite) in his frames, than the n90 and k90
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
We're not hating on sub-95 sq inch racquets, as a matter we love them. I just think a good majority of people who are using these racquets are not ready for them. Not enough people are willing to invest the time to perfect and smoothen out their strokes, they just wanna bang the ball as hard as they can.
AGreed all the n-code stuff is crap if you ask me. Graphite and Kevlar is the best.
Lol, Well I think I speak for everyone when I say if you walk out onto the courts for a tourny and the dude pulls out a Hyper Hammer 5.0 with a beat to heck grip, I can not be any more happy. :grin:
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
You mean until he beats you badly with that racquet.Lol, Well I think I speak for everyone when I say if you walk out onto the courts for a tourny and the dude pulls out a Hyper Hammer 5.0 with a beat to heck grip, I can not be any more happy. :grin:
I've learned a long time ago never to judge the ability of a player by the racquet he uses. I've been beaten by guys wielding everything from PS 6.0 85's to 120 sq. in. granny sticks and everything in between. It's the player and not the racquet that beats you.
D
Deleted member 6835
Guest
hahaha wow seems like they'd be blaming their racket for walking right up to their hands and thats why they're using it...
"Umm ya i use frames that disadvantage my game because they just walk to me in the middle of the night and dont leave me hand until after my tennis match for the day."
like i said, just beat them with a gamma big bubba
You mean until he beats you badly with that racquet.
lmao, I don't think I've ever been beaten with a 137 gamma but I have been beaten with other embarrassing sticks lol.
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
I'm sure the k90 has something to do with that breathtaking ohbh
You mean until he beats you badly with that racquet.
I agree w. you 100%. It's the player, not the racquet, that beets you.
chowdhurynaveen
Rookie
This has been said by many others and ive been saying it for a long time now, but im going to say it again.
I dont think all this racquet bashing is useful to anyone, whether its a tweener or a players racquet thats being discussed. If an opponent is of a much higher ntrp rating than me, regardless of what he uses, hes most likely going to beat me. On the flip side, if i play some of a much lesser skill level, then i will most likely beat them. I know this, because i have experienced both sides often in the 15 years i have been playing tennis.
I am not a top 100 pro and nor will i ever claim to be. But what i have realized is what truly makes a great player is not so much his racquet choice(which should be obvious to everyone), but his ability to adapt to changing conditions and opponent technique, and the ability to decisively construct an intelligent point. This is nothing new, and i have a sneaking suspicion that everyone knows this deep down inside.
If you have the extreme dedication and drive (this means you practive everyday for most of the day like its your nine to five job with competitive geared coaching) which eludes most of us for what ever reason, then regardless of your frame, you will win often and acheive great success as exemplified by the top three players through out tennis history.
I believe all this "Youll be a god with this racquet" and "your dumb to use this racquet" mentalities stems for the current societys want for instant gratification and immeadiate "on tap" demand for exceptional results. There is no more room for good old fashioned elbow grease and hard work. If this philosophy is your driving motive behind playing tennis, then maybe tennis is not the game for you. I dont mean to exclude anybody, but this is the simple truth of the game that any 6.0+ will inform you of. This is also why when you do put in the work, tennis is one of the most gratifying practices you can engage in.
I dont think all this racquet bashing is useful to anyone, whether its a tweener or a players racquet thats being discussed. If an opponent is of a much higher ntrp rating than me, regardless of what he uses, hes most likely going to beat me. On the flip side, if i play some of a much lesser skill level, then i will most likely beat them. I know this, because i have experienced both sides often in the 15 years i have been playing tennis.
I am not a top 100 pro and nor will i ever claim to be. But what i have realized is what truly makes a great player is not so much his racquet choice(which should be obvious to everyone), but his ability to adapt to changing conditions and opponent technique, and the ability to decisively construct an intelligent point. This is nothing new, and i have a sneaking suspicion that everyone knows this deep down inside.
If you have the extreme dedication and drive (this means you practive everyday for most of the day like its your nine to five job with competitive geared coaching) which eludes most of us for what ever reason, then regardless of your frame, you will win often and acheive great success as exemplified by the top three players through out tennis history.
I believe all this "Youll be a god with this racquet" and "your dumb to use this racquet" mentalities stems for the current societys want for instant gratification and immeadiate "on tap" demand for exceptional results. There is no more room for good old fashioned elbow grease and hard work. If this philosophy is your driving motive behind playing tennis, then maybe tennis is not the game for you. I dont mean to exclude anybody, but this is the simple truth of the game that any 6.0+ will inform you of. This is also why when you do put in the work, tennis is one of the most gratifying practices you can engage in.
You know I agree with this statement up to an extent. Sure a player makes the racquet, but guess what, I am going to loose to anyone playing with the end of a broom, and also with a Gamma 137. Just too little control and this leads to my point, with a Gamma Big bubba I am going to beat anyone 4.0 and under but anyone above that I will loose to. On the pro tour the competition is soooo close, (Except Federer) and as many of the players say ANYONE can beat ANYONE on ANY given day. Those small small small tiny details include strings grip and especially racquet. On the junior tour, the same occurs, it's tiny details that win you the match, like the one forehand you got around to hit a winner off of and get the break, and with a 100 inch head would have been missed. Sure at lower club play and things like that racquets don't matter, but at the level I play at they make all the difference in the world, from feelings good in your hand and having confidence to hit the shot you're about to go for. And I totally agree with you in saying they don't make a difference, but at higher levels they do.
Amen. I see people all the time play 2 times a week and claim they will be the next Federer or Sampras. Everything is done with hardwork, the tiny details are worked out later in even more hardwork.
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ibemadskillzz
Semi-Pro
who cares, it looks good, just play with it, you'll get use to it. if you don't like then don't buy it
Bottle Rocket
Hall of Fame
Yeah... I bet you love that...
Cukoo said
I think you've completely missed my original intent. People concerning themselves with what other people are using is why the K90 has exploded into something spectacular... Too many people conerning themselves with what other people are using. People need to see the other side of things. This is just a supplement to all the threads with the people that are crazy about these little rackets. The Tour 90 is not a miracle stick for everyone. Everyone should use what they used best, I obviously don't disagree with that. In my opinion though, too many people are being fooled into using what isn't right for them. Most of these people do not have the same motives that you 5.5 college players have for using this racket.
This thread has gone in some interesting directions... More thoughts?
