n(k)Six-One Tour 90 - Are you kidding me?

Ultra2HolyGrail said:
Hmmm. Very odd. Almost sounds impossible.
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Indeed.
So what Jo11yRoger is saying is:
A player who plays a totally different sport can "whip" a 5.5 with a 9oz stick?
Isn't racquetball a wristy sport compared to tennis? I've played really good racquetball players. This particular one I could double bagel easily.
The 2 sports are just too dissimilar.
 
VolklVenom said:
Indeed.
So what Jo11yRoger is saying is:
A player who plays a totally different sport can "whip" a 5.5 with a 9oz stick?
Isn't racquetball a wristy sport compared to tennis? I've played really good racquetball players. This particular one I could double bagel easily.
The 2 sports are just too dissimilar.
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Obviously a former racquetball player who took up tennis. This is approaching silly levels, and after a few more posts is going to reach the "Is not! Is too! Are not! Are too!" level of childish contradiction.

J
 
i see the children have destroyed yet another thread. some of this stuff is so bizarre and so off base and so childish, it's not possible to respond to. it's the norm around here...when people have nothing, they make up stuff about people and also launch personal assaults. bye now

EDIT: Not you Jolly.
 
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This thread seems to reach this point every 50 posts or so... Then it dies off for a few weeks before someone brings it back to life.
 
Just for the record, I am not at all convinced that the K90 (or any other 'demanding players' frame' makes it tougher to win.

Players' frames indisputably do make it tougher to win for some players, which seems self evident to me, but EASIER to win for others. ;) CC
 
drakulie said:
1. RELATED TO STRINGS:

The instructors on these boards who are self proclaimed 5.0+ players have no problems recommending to beginners to try out what they personally string their own racquets with, which include gut/poly hybrids, and tension range. Many times they speak about the strings openly to all levels of players and talk about their set-up as the next best thing since sliced bread.

QUESTION?: If certain racquets are only for certain players, wouldn't this also apply to strings??? Why would someone who is a 5.0 and teaching pro recommend thier personal string set up to a beginner? Does a beginner even know how to get the full potential out of a certain string?? Don't differenrt strings have different playing characterisics in the same way frames do? Using their own logic about racquet selection, wouldn't it be more cost effective to recommend to a beginner a cheap synthetic that will last them a few months and cost them alot less than a 35 dollar natural gut/poly hyrbid that they really have no use for? Hmmmm? Anyone smell hypocricy???

FACT: In the same way there is no such thing as a string for beginners, there is no such thing as a frame for a beginner. It is personal choice.
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The comparison with racquets is not really valid. Using a poly or a gut-poly hybrid is not going to make the equipment a burden on the intermediate player, like a heavy racquet would do. It may have an effect on playing characteristics, but not the kind of impact that an unweidly racquet will. I use Bab Pro Hurricane Tour, and it is expensive, and at my level, I can use something cheaper. But it hardly moves, doesn't get stuck (both help me avoid the calluses from adjusting the strings), is very durable, and helps me a little bit with creating more topspin whose effect I can see. The fact that Nadal also uses it does not handicap me in any way, and I don't use it because Nadal does. But if I used Federer's racquet, I would be swinging late, finding it difficult to generate power, and losing, and those will impact my game and how I perceive it.

And I have not seen teaching pros forcing their string setups on their students. Maybe at a competitive junior level they may make suggestions, yes, but not for your average clinic guy or gal.
 
sureshs said:
The comparison with racquets is not really valid. Using a poly or a gut-poly hybrid is not going to make the equipment a burden on the intermediate player, like a heavy racquet would do. It may have an effect on playing characteristics, but not the kind of impact that an unweidly racquet will. I use Bab Pro Hurricane Tour, and it is expensive, and at my level, I can use something cheaper. But it hardly moves, doesn't get stuck (both help me avoid the calluses from adjusting the strings), is very durable, and helps me a little bit with creating more topspin whose effect I can see. The fact that Nadal also uses it does not handicap me in any way, and I don't use it because Nadal does. But if I used Federer's racquet, I would be swinging late, finding it difficult to generate power, and losing, and those will impact my game and how I perceive it.

And I have not seen teaching pros forcing their string setups on their students. Maybe at a competitive junior level they may make suggestions, yes, but not for your average clinic guy or gal.
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To add, I have also not seen manufacturers and TW and tennis.com rate string suitability based on level, as they do for racquets. So it is a pure hypothetical argument proving nothing.
 
sureshs said:
To add, I have also not seen manufacturers and TW and tennis.com rate string suitability based on level, as they do for racquets. So it is a pure hypothetical argument proving nothing.
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True.....but I see alot of beginners with arm problems using full poly when it clearly isnt made for their style of play. They also are not getting any of the benefits of full poly as they dont break strings, hit with spin or alot of power. I can see Draks point.

Nick
 
sureshs said:
The comparison with racquets is not really valid. Using a poly or a gut-poly hybrid is not going to make the equipment a burden on the intermediate player, like a heavy racquet would do. It may have an effect on playing characteristics, but not the kind of impact that an unweidly racquet will.
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I understand your point and not that I disagree, however, the same people who argue about racquets, talk out of both sides of their mouth when talking about strings. On one hand, they recommend their string set up to beginners, and on the other hand they say that too many beginners who use polys develop arm problems and have no business using these strings as they can't utilize the string to it's full potential. Coincidentally, this is the same argument they use with player racquets.

sureshs said:
And I have not seen teaching pros forcing their string setups on their students. Maybe at a competitive junior level they may make suggestions, yes, but not for your average clinic guy or gal.
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Guess you haven't been paying very close attention to the string section of these boards because supposed "teaching pros" ARE recommending their string set up to all level of players.
 
nickb said:
True.....but I see alot of beginners with arm problems using full poly when it clearly isnt made for their style of play. They also are not getting any of the benefits of full poly as they dont break strings, hit with spin or alot of power. I can see Draks point.

Nick
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Health is the most important factor of course. But we were discussing equipment suitability for level of play, and I don't see strings affecting that to a great extent (except for the comfort as you point out). Polys are not handicapping them, and they should be strung lower too if pain is the issue.

The spin improvement is noticeable even at an intermediate level. Specially if you also use a larger head and open pattern. I generate considerably more spin than those at my level, and I know from "control experiments" it is because of the string. It is almost like cheating when I see the opponent do a double take due to the spin. I could never generate that spin on my own.

That is the benefit I get for paying substantially more.
 
sureshs said:
No I haven't been paying attention to that part
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That may be because it seems all of your attention is on whenever anyone happens to mention that they use a smaller-headed and/or heavier racquet so that you can jump all over them and accuse them of using the "wrong" racquet and that not even Federer should be using something soooooo demanding, let alone any posters here.
 
K90 is a stick good for any 4.0 player and up, depending on technique and how he hits.

I gave one of my racquets (365 grams) to a 3.5 level player. I was trying to hit with him using a POG (330 grams strung). Can not be done, the guy was killing me. I was able to stay one the court with him using a K90 (i play at 4.0).

I do not, do not, do not understand how people can play tenis with anything under 330-340 grams.
 
gacu said:
I do not, do not, do not understand how people can play tenis with anything under 330-340 grams.
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I could not agree more.
Thesis that 'K90 is too heavy' could not sustain even basic logical and rational analysis.
My friend told me after he has tried my K90 that stick was too heavy. My response was: maybe it is, but just for you. He is weak, not fit and athletic enough.
OK, I am in good shape since my navy days, but every person who considers himself a decent tennis player should be in decent shape.
My wife plays with O3 Red and frankly speaking I do not feel this racquet in my hand.
 
Bottle Rocket said:
There is absolutely NO WAY there are so many people on this board that actually benefit from this frame. QUOTE]

Please don't misinterpret this as a personal attack, which it is not. ;)

However I do feel compelled to respond simply, "How do you know this to be true?"

I certainly don't play anywhere near Fed's level, but I have benefitted from using this frame. I happen to know there are certain 'lurkers' here who might step up with a post and confirm this fact (Bill!, Tim!, Dan!) :)

There is so much variety in people and how they play, that with a group this large, there very well could be numerous folks who play their best with this frame. That is ALL I am saying.

Is it for beginners? Not in my opinion. Will help a 3.5 become a 4.0 or 4.5, probably not. BUT it is a fine frame for certain people and playing styles.

Best,

CC
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Craig A. Clark said:
Bottle Rocket said:
There is absolutely NO WAY there are so many people on this board that actually benefit from this frame. QUOTE]

Please don't misinterpret this as a personal attack, which it is not. ;)

However I do feel compelled to respond simply, "How do you know this to be true?"

I certainly don't play anywhere near Fed's level, but I have benefitted from using this frame. I happen to know there are certain 'lurkers' here who might step up with a post and confirm this fact (Bill!, Tim!, Dan!) :)

There is so much variety in people and how they play, that with a group this large, there very well could be numerous folks who play their best with this frame. That is ALL I am saying.

Is it for beginners? Not in my opinion. Will help a 3.5 become a 4.0 or 4.5, probably not. BUT it is a fine frame for certain people and playing styles.

Best,

CC
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Have you ever tried the Vantage 90 Craig?
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I played with the K-90 for the first time last night, after much trepidation that it was 'too much' racquet for me. Last night here was one of those crazy summer days when the humidity was out of control, and it feels like you can't breathe 'cause you're swimming in water. I thought that if I could handle the racquet in those conditions, I could handle it most places / conditions.

Now the funny thing is that I loved the racquet. My regular frame is the Head LM prestige MP, and I found the K-90 to have more power than the prestige, and just as much feel and comfort. The K-90 is definitely heavier, has a higher swingweight, and perhaps a smaller sweetspot, but it is by no means only for Roger Federer. I served excellent with the racquet, and my strongest stroke (1-hbh) was spot on. My weakest shot (my forehand) took a while to adjust, but it came around. I felt tired after two hours, but I attribute that more to the heat and humidity as much as the frame.

Maybe its just me, but I really like the frame. I started playing as a kid at the end of the wooden racquet era, and still remember my old Donnay Pro Borg with fondness. Perhaps I like the K-90 because it is like playing with 'old school' frames?? Who knows.....It certainly isn't a frame for everyone, but I'm seriously considering it as an option (if I can damn afford it!!!).

Oh, I would classify myself as a 4.5 level player (we don't use the NTRP ratings much here in Canada).
 
dave108 said:
I played with the K-90 for the first time last night, after much trepidation that it was 'too much' racquet for me. Last night here was one of those crazy summer days when the humidity was out of control, and it feels like you can't breathe 'cause you're swimming in water. I thought that if I could handle the racquet in those conditions, I could handle it most places / conditions.

Now the funny thing is that I loved the racquet. My regular frame is the Head LM prestige MP, and I found the K-90 to have more power than the prestige, and just as much feel and comfort. The K-90 is definitely heavier, has a higher swingweight, and perhaps a smaller sweetspot, but it is by no means only for Roger Federer. I served excellent with the racquet, and my strongest stroke (1-hbh) was spot on. My weakest shot (my forehand) took a while to adjust, but it came around. I felt tired after two hours, but I attribute that more to the heat and humidity as much as the frame.

Maybe its just me, but I really like the frame. I started playing as a kid at the end of the wooden racquet era, and still remember my old Donnay Pro Borg with fondness. Perhaps I like the K-90 because it is like playing with 'old school' frames?? Who knows.....It certainly isn't a frame for everyone, but I'm seriously considering it as an option (if I can damn afford it!!!).

Oh, I would classify myself as a 4.5 level player (we don't use the NTRP ratings much here in Canada).
Click to expand...

I know there are plenty of folks who have tried it and hated it or found it too demanding, or what have you. But that is also true of every other frame currently manufactured. ;) CC
 
Spinnage said:
This thread has no purpose. You dont have to be a pro to enjoy the tour 90s. As i have 3 students using them and one of them has been playing for only 8 months, He is accelerating at a rapid pace and playing at almost club level. Yes, these racquet are demanding, But they govern your strokes and keep your footwork clean. I notice as a tennis instructor over many years students with smaller headed racquets have a harder time at the beginning, But in the long run they will have better strokes and footwork than those who learn their strokes on a larger racquet which lets then get away with murder without a decent technique. Tennis has gone mad with the sizes of the new racquets. Come on people if you dont like, you must have learned on a granny racquet. As for me I play with the K90 and have a long fast swing, breathtaking ohbh and 135 MPH serve. As advice to all the smaller racquet haters out there continue to hate because it just makes it easier to embarrass you in a match with your poor footwork, small compact swings, and no placement of the ball.
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Well then, make sure not to trip when you want to get off your high horse :)

Anyway, as someone pointed out to me, does anyone else find it suspicious that the rest of the Wilson pros wouldn't touch this racquet with a ten foot pole? That they all use the K 95's instead? I mean it really makes you think.

But to each his own, but there was a really good point to this thread about people buying racquets because of pro endorsement. It's something semi-impressionable people need to be aware of to avoid having their game suffer.

Then again, people were complaining about the fact that the pros paint their racquets. Maybe this whole drama is partly the reason.
 
i play golf, and this argument reminds me of the old Blade vs. Cavity back.. more often then not, a high handicap golfer will try and dabble with the less forgiving blade but eventually revert back to clubs that are more suitable
________
Honda Nt700
 
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TheHuntor said:
...But to each his own
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That is the best point of your post. If more people simply worried about their own games and equipment choices rather than condescendingly "talking down" to others that use mid-size frames, etc. then the world would be a better place and we would all be able to eat candy, enjoy fried food, and suck down beverages without gaining weight. Chill...:grin:
 
Craig A. Clark said:
jorel said:
I have not. But I have heard good things about it.

A couple of years back I waited patiently for the shop in B'ham to get in the much bally-hooed Wilson pallets for my beloved i Prestige mids, ultimately to no avail. It sorta turned me off on the whole 'custom' idea.

What has your experience with the Vantage 90 been?

CC
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for me... its been the best thing since the Wilson Pro Staff 85
performs like the classic with nice modern touch ups.. i have discussed it at length in some of my other posts

like if Fed used it.... he would have a French title ;)
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TheHuntor said:
Anyway, as someone pointed out to me, does anyone else find it suspicious that the rest of the Wilson pros wouldn't touch this racquet with a ten foot pole? That they all use the K 95's instead? I mean it really makes you think.
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No, I don't find it suspicious. I don't play against other pros so why would I care what the pros choose to use against other pros? :confused:
 
Even the pro's need all the help they can get. My local tennis store (who has been doing business for over 35 years) said the K95's with the 340 swingweight were mostly made for pro's as it is closer to the weight they would want. If I were playing against pros (which, at age 50 I probably never will except for 3 seconds against Andy Roddick at a benefit or something), I would want the heaviest biggest headed racket I could possibly use too. But since I don't play against pros, I can get away with the K90, hit some fantastic shots and have a lot of fun playing with a racket that is probably only fractionally similar to Federer's. Not only do I see no harm in that, but I positively enjoy using the K90. Now if I started losing badly with it, I would immediately find something bigger, lighter, quicker, whatever because ultimately I want to win! As Brad Gilbert has said, "if you don't mind losing then don't keep score."
 
Bottle Rockbly
You can't be serious. Firstly all of your comments assume a single frame is right for all. If you don't like the frame, don't use it... plain and simple. That said, bottom line is that the [K]90 is a great frame, especially if you have a longer swing. If your a Nadal spin master then it probably won't suit your game. Indeed, its a heavy frame and you need to be up to it.

That said, I'm sure there is a F-factor with the sponsorship... that's why they do it... same with Roddick, Nadal, Hennin, etc.

Use what you like and ignore what you don't.
 
I don't remember demoing the n90 really, so I can't say anything about it. However, I did demo the k90, and if it weren't for the fact that my fairly new leaded up Pure Storms play so good, I probably would have seriously considered buying the k90. I still may. I found it to be a pleasure to hit with. It might take a few weeks to get really comfortable with it, but I didn't find it unwieldy. Of course my Pure Storms currently weigh in at 12.5 oz., and my previous frame was weighted up to 13oz. I may not be typical, but I thought it was a nice frame.
 
roger can play any rackets (including wilson hammar, or other non player rackets) to beat anyone on tour. anyone believes that his k or ncode racket makes him world number 1????
 
tt2003 said:
roger can play any rackets (including wilson hammar, or other non player rackets) to beat anyone on tour. anyone believes that his k or ncode racket makes him world number 1????
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Sorry, but I don't believe Federer would be #1 and have 12 Grand Slam titles with a Big Bubba. ;)
 
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