Nadal 0-14 against Federer/Djokovic outside of clay since 2013US/2014AO

James695

Rookie
0-6 against Federer since 2014 AO, 0-8 against Djokovic since 2013 USO.

I thought about it and then I said it. Discuss.
Tried to start a thread about this stat last night but got my maths slightly wrong and said it was 0-16 (don’t drink and post) so thread went nowhere.

Another crazy stat. Outside of clay Federer was won 9 of their last 10 sets!

14 of their last 18 sets!
 
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JackGates

Hall of Fame
I don’t think this is fair. it should be obvious from 2014 on the age difference started to benefit Fed more.
So what you are saying that when things are even and Rafa doesn't have age advantage, he gets destroyed by Federer away from clay?

Nole also relies more on athleticism, so it will be interesting to see now that Nole is slower and things are even, how he will do against Federer. So, if Nole still wins, no excuses from me, he earns it, since he is not in his 2015 peak and Fed seems a bit better than in 2015.
 

Luka888

Hall of Fame
So what you are saying that when things are even and Rafa doesn't have age advantage, he gets destroyed by Federer away from clay?

Nole also relies more on athleticism, so it will be interesting to see now that Nole is slower and things are even, how he will do against Federer. So, if Nole still wins, no excuses from me, he earns it, since he is not in his 2015 peak and Fed seems a bit better than in 2015.
The problem is when Nole slows down Rafa will too. Rafa is already slow. Novak looks fine. Not like in 2011 but still. I knew about this stat btw. It's a good thread.
 
Djokovic isn't that surprising (Federer himself is about to go 0-4 in slams since around the same time period). Federer is the surprising one. Shows how far gone Rafa is out of clay these days. He can't win against top players anymore.
 

StANDAA

Legend
So what you are saying that when things are even and Rafa doesn't have age advantage, he gets destroyed by Federer away from clay?

Nole also relies more on athleticism, so it will be interesting to see now that Nole is slower and things are even, how he will do against Federer. So, if Nole still wins, no excuses from me, he earns it, since he is not in his 2015 peak and Fed seems a bit better than in 2015.
i was trolling.
 

Biggest3

New User
There's a high chance that he will be the first to retire. People keep saying that he can win at least 1 or 2 more FO's(which won't help him much anyway since the more he wins it the less valuable it becomes) but he plays worse and worse with every passing year while being fully fit.He was really lucky that Djokovic floundered vs Thiem which gifted him the win in similar fashion to 2011.
He had his chances at AO17 and WB18 and wasn't good enough.He can't hang with them anymore and it will get only worse from now on.If he ever meets Djokovic in slam i expect similar beatings to AO19.There is no more a Big 3(as stats show it it stopped being a thing since 2014, outside clay Nadal pose no more threat than Agut and is part of the so called weak era field himself).

If Federer can't win tomorrow, the Goat debate will be pretty much over. In 2 Years Djokovic will reign supreme alone at the top.
 
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JackGates

Hall of Fame
The problem is when Nole slows down Rafa will too. Rafa is already slow. Novak looks fine. Not like in 2011 but still. I knew about this stat btw. It's a good thread.
I'm talking about Nole slowing down helping Fed, not helping Rafa. Fed relied more on skills and serve, so he is declining slower than those guys, at least on paper it looks like that versus Nole, we will see on Sunday.
 
He had his chances at AO17 and WB18 and wasn't good enough.He can't hang with them anymore and never will from now on.There is no more a Big 3.
He's got his consistency back. Take a look at his slam results in recent times. Quite a lot of deep runs. Federer and Djokovic are going to decline as well and the field is dreadful. I can see him winning a couple more slams.
 

Biggest3

New User
He's got his consistency back. Take a look at his slam results in recent times. Quite a lot of deep runs. Federer and Djokovic are going to decline as well and the field is dreadful. I can see him winning a couple more slams.
All of that applies to Nadal as well and as it is proven, he is the one most affected by the decline. It's true that he is consistently making deep runs but when he faces either Djokovic or Federer there is not much of a contest.He is in the Murray position, good but not good enough.People never lumped Murray together with them even though he was making finals and semifinals consistently which is exactly the same situation Nadal is in since 2014.The only exception is that he is the clay goat and no one will take that from him but he proved that ages ago.Adding more FO for him has become just a number. It won't propel him above Federer even if he somehow gets more total slams if he only wins FO.
 
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All of that applies to Nadal as well and as it is proven, he is the one most affected by the decline. It's true that he is consistently making deep runs but when he faces either Djokovic or Federer there is not much of a contest.He is in the Murray position, good but not good enough.People never lumped Murray together with them even though he was making finals and semifinals consistently which is exactly the same situation Nadal is in since 2014.The only exception is that he is the clay goat and no one will take that from him but he proved that ages ago.Adding more FO for him has become just a number. It won't propel him above Federer even if he somehow gets more total slams if he only wins FO.
He is in a Murray position. And Murray himself eventually won slams, beating Djokovic twice in 2 of his slams. Murray was good enough to win slams, just like Nadal. Haven't Federer fans been saying for years that slam count is what really matters and what puts him ahead of the others? Now suddenly it wouldn't matter if Nadal wins more French Opens and overtakes him?
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
Nadal is 4-15 against his main rivals since 2015.

Nadal fans: "age doesn't matter".
Ah the good old 2015 season, where Nadal still showed up to face his rivals despite playing pathetic for almost 2 years.

Pity Djokovic didn't see Nadal in his 2017-18 slump period as much, or there would've been beatdown on every surface.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
Djokovic isn't that surprising (Federer himself is about to go 0-4 in slams since around the same time period). Federer is the surprising one. Shows how far gone Rafa is out of clay these days. He can't win against top players anymore.
Who are the top players?
Who is recording wins over Nadal 'these days' ?
 

James695

Rookie
Why is 'ouside of clay' considered a topic? Clay makes up a decent portion of the calendar as well. A loss is a loss on any surface. Accept it :cool:
Why is it not a topic? We are discussing why nadal cant cope with his two main rivals outside of clay anymore. It’s a valid point of discussion no? As 3 of the 4 slams are not on clay it’s important.

No one is saying he isn’t still the best on clay but we are discussing something else.

It’s fine to discuss more than one topic. There are hundreds of Nadal clay threads on this forum. Stay on them if this question doesn’t interest you.
 

Benjamin Rio

Professional
Ah the good old 2015 season, where Nadal still showed up to face his rivals despite playing pathetic for almost 2 years.

Pity Djokovic didn't see Nadal in his 2017-18 slump period as much, or there would've been beatdown on every surface.
He saw him at Madrid 2017 Rome 2018 and Wimbledon 2018.
 

TennisaGoGo

Semi-Pro
This thread sure is different than the match thread while the two men were actually playing each other. Apparently Nadal stinks today.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
He saw him at Madrid 2017 Rome 2018 and Wimbledon 2018.
So really only 2 meeting when Djokovic was still not in good form.
By Wimbledon 18 he was playing well.
Nadal suffered 4 defeats to Djokovic in 2015, and 3 more in 2016.
7 and 2 aren't really the same...
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
Why is it not a topic? We are discussing why nadal cant cope with his two main rivals outside of clay anymore. It’s a valid point of discussion no? As 3 of the 4 slams are not on clay it’s important.

No one is saying he isn’t still the best on clay but we are discussing something else.

It’s fine to discuss more than one topic. There are hundreds of Nadal clay threads on this forum. Stay on them if this question doesn’t interest you.
Why is there no 'ouside of grass' topics? Or 'outside of HC' topics?
:rolleyes:
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
This is why he will always be Clay Goat and only Clay Goat. All round Nole and Fed are just better
Rafa is an all-surface player. And that's a fact. Yes, he is the clay GOAT, but he is still a multi-surface ATG.

Djoker and Fed are better outside of clay than he is, which is no shame. Just like Rafa is much better than them on clay.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Djokovic isn't that surprising (Federer himself is about to go 0-4 in slams since around the same time period). Federer is the surprising one. Shows how far gone Rafa is out of clay these days. He can't win against top players anymore.
Fed is expected. He is 6 years older.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Well, in his case it doesn't since they are not younger than him. Djokovic is the same age and Fed is 5 years older :p
Nah, it does. Because it diminished certain aspects of his game/forced him to adapt a different playing style which made him a bigger underdog off clay.

Of course if Fed and Novak were 5 years younger than Rafa it would have been even worse. Mid-late twenties Fed would have toyed with 30+ Nadal at Wimbledon for example.
 
The same logic applies for any other player, Federer also played fair number of matches in the the clay court season, Djokovic too.
Not really, Nadal plays Barcelona and plays more matches than any other player in most clay tournaments and spends more time on court because of his style os play. That's true for 90% of the years.
 

James695

Rookie
Not really, Nadal plays Barcelona and plays more matches than any other player in most clay tournaments and spends more time on court because of his style os play. That's true for 90% of the years.
Nadal has a 0-14 against the big 3 off clay since A014. And the reason is.......drumroll.........

Because he plays Barcelona.

I’ve really heard every excuse now.
 

DSH

Hall of Fame
His confidence has diminished when he faces those two, however, they overflow with exuberance in themselves when they face the Spaniard.
When you lose the important points, you lose the match permanently.
 

Martin J

Rookie
Not really, Nadal plays Barcelona and plays more matches than any other player in most clay tournaments and spends more time on court because of his style os play. That's true for 90% of the years.
And other players usually play a warm up tournament on grass, some of them even more than one, while Nadal is resting. We could use the same logic and say Djokovic and Federer (and every other player who plays on grass) are exhausted during the American HC season because they played a full schedule on grass, while Nadal usually loses early and have more time to recover.

The fact is that he isn't as good on grass as Fedovic, thus his results aren't as impressive.
 
Nadal has a 0-14 against the big 3 off clay since A014. And the reason is.......drumroll.........

Because he plays Barcelona.

I’ve really heard every excuse now.
Read again because I didn't say that.

He plays too many tiring matches in a row during the clay season. It's not an excuse, it's a fact, whether you like it or not.
 
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