Nadal 0-14 against Federer/Djokovic outside of clay since 2013US/2014AO

James695

Rookie
They don't actually and neither do the fans. Almost everyone knows the slam tally of any Open Era ATG but ask them about a H2H and they'll have to go check.
I have never ever ever heard them mention head to head stats between Bjorg/Mac or Pete/Agassi or whoever on tv. Not a single time. All the commentators and analysts talk about are slam counts and specific all time great finals.

1980 Bjorg VS Mac Wimbledon is always mentioned. Their head to head stat. Never!
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
I have never ever ever heard them mention head to head stats between Bjorg/Mac or Pete/Agassi or whoever on tv. Not a single time. All the commentators and analysts talk about are slam counts and specific all time great finals.

1980 Bjorg VS Mac Wimbledon is always mentioned. Their head to head stat. Never!
Don't think I could come up with a single H2H stat off the top of my head and be certain I'm right, I'd have to doublecheck.

Slam tallies however? You could wake me up at 3 AM in the morning and I'd get the vast majority of them right.
 

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
It's to balance that their meetings don't represent the surface distribution percentage, that's the only reason. If Fed and Rafa played for example 10 times on grass and 1 time at RG, then we would use outside of grass too.

And also mastering two surfaces is exponentially harder , so 5 AO+5 USO is not equal to 10 FO.
If Rafa had 5 AO and 5 FO, that is way superior than 9 FO and 1 AO for example. It's the same as mastering two languages versus just one. It's so much harder.
But haven't they all met more often on hard courts than either grass or clay? Therefore the fact Federer doesn't lead the H2H over Nadal says more about him.
 

Nadal15thslam

Hall of Fame
0-6 against Federer since 2014 AO, 0-8 against Djokovic since 2013 USO.

I thought about it and then I said it. Discuss.
Outside of clay is not an argument. Clay is a proper surface regardless of what Fed fans and Nole fans say. You don't hear Rafa fans say something like "outside of grass". It doesn't make any sense
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Outside of clay is not an argument. Clay is a proper surface regardless of what Fed fans and Nole fans say. You don't hear Rafa fans say something like "outside of grass". It doesn't make any sense
Maybe because "outside of grass" is pretty much everything that isn't Wimbledon lmao.
 
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Chadalina

Legend
Why do they still call them masters if the best arent playing?

Bunch of old guys abusing the rule, nice job atp council, putting all the old farts on.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
Nadal has lost his confidence regarding Novak and RF. Very simple.

Rafa was the confidence giant, but no more. The proof is that he lost 3 5-setters during this period i.e. he has the weapons to beat them.
 

octobrina10

G.O.A.T.
Nadal knows how to pick his battles, no?

Federer and Djokovic missing - I gonna play, no?
Federer and Djokovic come back - I tired, no?
I wonder why Fed devotees have forgotten that Fed pulled out of the Cincinnati Masters after the Canada Masters final 2 years ago.

The Cincinnati Masters website: ¤¤ Roger Federer, a seven-time champion at the Western & Southern Open [Cincinnati Masters] has withdrawn from the 2017 tournament.
"Unfortunately, I tweaked my back in Montreal and I need to rest this week," Federer said.
A lucky loser will replace Federer in the draw. ¤¤

 

Pheasant

Hall of Fame
Rafa has declined more than the two of them. It's that simple. His loss of foot speed is massive. He's still a warrior that's really intelligent at making adjustments. But eventually, the deterioration of physical assets more than offets the gain in mental aspects. We've seen that in spades with Rafa.

With that being said, he's still extremely dangerous on all surfaces and should never be counted out.. I still get very nervous when Fed faces him.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
I wonder why Fed devotees have forgotten that Fed pulled out of the Cincinnati Masters after the Canada Masters final 2 years ago.

The Cincinnati Masters website: ¤¤ Roger Federer, a seven-time champion at the Western & Southern Open [Cincinnati Masters] has withdrawn from the 2017 tournament.
"Unfortunately, I tweaked my back in Montreal and I need to rest this week," Federer said.
A lucky loser will replace Federer in the draw. ¤¤

That's called being actually injured. XDDDD
 

MeatTornado

Legend
I wonder why Fed devotees have forgotten that Fed pulled out of the Cincinnati Masters after the Canada Masters final 2 years ago.

The Cincinnati Masters website: ¤¤ Roger Federer, a seven-time champion at the Western & Southern Open [Cincinnati Masters] has withdrawn from the 2017 tournament.
"Unfortunately, I tweaked my back in Montreal and I need to rest this week," Federer said.
A lucky loser will replace Federer in the draw. ¤¤

Clearly you didn't watch the Canada final that year. 99% of other players would've retired mid-match, but Roger fought through it even though he clearly couldn't move. He wasn't even leaving the ground on serves by the end.

Not a single sane person expected him to play Cincy after that. If the USO wasn't a major, he likely would've skipped that too.
 

ChaelAZ

Legend
0-6 against Federer since 2014 AO, 0-8 against Djokovic since 2013 USO.

I thought about it and then I said it. Discuss.

Ughhh, I agree. It is sad that Fed and Djo, who are supposed to be so dominant, can't play clay. They seem so strong on HC on whatever grass is left, but just choke on clay. Sad for Fed and Djo man, but really show how Nadal dominates clay and has done well to play other surfaces in the past.

Good post.
 
E
Nadal has lost his confidence regarding Novak and RF. Very simple.

Rafa was the confidence giant, but no more. The proof is that he lost 3 5-setters during this period i.e. he has the weapons to beat them.
This is what i too feel, its about winning one close encounter against them and it could all change dor rafa off clay but it has to happen soon.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
E

This is what i too feel, its about winning one close encounter against them and it could all change dor rafa off clay but it has to happen soon.
It won't happen. Maybe at FO vs Djokovic he wins in 5 again, but other three slams, no chance. Rafa had his chance in Wimby semis 2018, and he threw it away. Such chances come very rarely. He literally can win non-FO slams now only when the draw opens up without Novak or Roger. He has devolved as a competitor, despite still being successful.
 

The Blond Blur

Hall of Fame
It's a good thing their careers span more than 5 years :rolleyes: The cherry picking of some people is ridiculous. Joker got to play Nadal 7 times during Nadal's absolute worst years on tour 2015-2016. While Nadal only got to play Joker twice during Joker's down time 2017-halfway through 2018. That's almost 4x times the opportunities to rack up wins against a weakened rival. Nadal was still making it to later stages of tournaments, but on the flip side Joker fell out of the top 10. I guarantee you if they played 7 times during his slump, Nadal is leading the h2h (he's only down 2 as it stands).

As far as the Fedal rivalry goes. Rog dominated Rafa in 2017. You won't hear any excuses from me (The OZ Open really turned things around for Fed), but that's 1 year. In 2015 they played once in Fed's hometown (basically a DC atmosphere) on an indoor HC and he barely won. They didn't play at all in 2016 (which was before Fed changed his playing style to better counter Rafa's lefty forehand to his backhand). And they didn't play at all in 2018. In 2019 it's 2-1 Fed. If you read the OP it makes it sound like Rafa hasn't beat these guys at all in 5 years which isn't the case. And he's still well ahead of Rog in their h2h (I doubt he catches up), but Rafa is breathing down Fed's neck and will almost certainly pass him in slams.

Edit: I just saw this thread was created the day before the final :-D I was rooting for Rog since I like him more than Joker, but man his "fans" make it almost impossible to support the guy. Pride really does come before the fall :-D
 
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It won't happen. Maybe at FO vs Djokovic he wins in 5 again, but other three slams, no chance. Rafa had his chance in Wimby semis 2018, and he threw it away. Such chances come very rarely. He literally can win non-FO slams now only when the draw opens up without Novak or Roger. He has devolved as a competitor, despite still being successful.
Stranger things have happened in tennis and you can never count these big guys out or say that a particular thing is unachievable for them as they have time and again proven many wrong.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
Stranger things have happened in tennis and you can never count these big guys out or say that a particular thing is unachievable for them as they have time and again proven many wrong.
I agree, but his H2H vs Novak and Roger is horrendous since 2014. That's 5 years. Awful score, roughly 3 wins and 15 losses or something. Why would it change after so many years? There are no signs of it changing. RF is playing superb tennis and so is Novak. Whatever mental edge he had over them from a decade ago when they feared him is gone completely.

They used to fear him, now he fears them. Once your biggest rivals start winning over and over it's very difficult to reverse it.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
I have never ever ever heard them mention head to head stats between Bjorg/Mac or Pete/Agassi or whoever on tv. Not a single time. All the commentators and analysts talk about are slam counts and specific all time great finals.

1980 Bjorg VS Mac Wimbledon is always mentioned. Their head to head stat. Never!
H2H being irrelevant... that's certainly not a new theory. But it's a rather lousy theory, very popular among certain fan bases...

It's so irrelevant that every pre-match stats show the H2H. So obviously they're meaningless.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Nadal's results on grass/HC since his last win against Fedovic on a non-clay surface:
3 AO finals
2 Wimbledon semis
2 USO wins + 1 semi

These are pretty good results for someone totally incapable of beating his main 2 rivals fore more than half a decade.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
You mean when a 50-year old 20+ time Slam champion Fed loses to St. Petersburg champion 35-year old Berrettini on the Champions Tour?
As usual, you guess is incorrect.

I thought you'd stopped guessing by now, considering your guessing track-record...?

According to GAS theory, Berrettini is only a young baby hence RF should be able to beat him. But he won't.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
As usual, you guess is incorrect.

I thought you'd stopped guessing by now, considering your guessing track-record...?

According to GAS theory, Berrettini is only a young baby hence RF should be able to beat him. But he won't.
Could you please send me that doc file with every ATP match result for the next 10 years? You seem to know a lot about future results.
 
Federer can take that win in Wimbledon semifinal. At least Nadal has 2 slams this year, unlike Federer. By the way, the last year where Federer won more slams than Nadal was 2009.
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
Good thing you ask...

Lajovic will beat old man RF (current estimates are he'll be 56 next year) in 3R but he'll lose to a player who will lose to the player who will lose to Novak.

You guess wrong, again.
No Nadal-Lajovic final, then? Man, Nadal dodged a bullet there.

Lukas Lacko should be easier to handle for the Nadal.
 
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