Nadal 2005

[kevaninho]

I know Nadals had better seasons statistically. But I just watched his 2005 AO match with Hewitt, and it got me digging into his whole year.

First of all, what a match it was with Hewitt. 5 sets of battle and determination, from 2 of the biggest fighters tennis has known. Impressive from teenage Nadal, losing to the runner up in that 4R.

Next up he wins a 250 event in Brazil, then the very next day hes in Mexico playing a 1R match again, going on to winning the 500 event, beating clay notables like Canas and Puerta.

Next, onto Miami Masters, where he goes to the final losing to Federer in 5, though if it was the modern style, he would've won in straight sets.

Onto the clay season, he wins in MC, Rome and Barcelona, before winning his first slam at RG. Defeating Coria in MC and a classic Rome final, along with beating 2004 RG champ Gaudio in MC.
Looking back at this time, the clay competition was very good IMO.

He then has a poor grass season, expectedly at this point, which makes his 2006- 08 grass seasons seem more remarkable.

He then wins a 250, and a 500 on clay, notably beating Gaudio and former RG champ Ferrero along the way.

He then wins his first Rogers cup in Canada, beating old man Agassi in the final, and to round off a stellar year, he wins a 250 on HC in China, and the Madrid Masters when it was an indoor tournament.

Now, I wasn't a massive follower of all tennis events at that age, but for anyone who was, this mustve created crazy hype to have a 18/19 year old play a season like this.
I only wish some kid would come through now , and do similar things.

8 clay titles, including a slam and 2 Masters.
3 HC titles, also with 2 of them being Masters, and losing a close final of another HC Masters.

 

[NatF]

They don't make them like that anymore that's for sure

Incredible season from Young'Dal.

 

[weakera]

The Nadal.

 

[clout]

Nadal was the GOAT next gen’er long before the “nextgen” term was even coined in tennis

 

[MichaelNadal]

The most epic player to hold a racquet.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

2005dal seems underrated recently. Very strong for most of the season besides grass and the USO. Won 11 (!) titles, including RG + 4 masters (2 clay, 2 HC) + another masters final almost beating peak fred.

 

[Azure]

Sigh... teenage crush and an awesomely talented big warrior heart to boot. What was not to like?

 

[StrongRule]

2005dal seems underrated recently. Very strong for most of the season besides grass and the USO. Won 11 (!) titles, including RG + 4 masters (2 clay, 2 HC) + another masters final almost beating peak fred.

The only users who underrate it are some blind Djokovic fanboys like RF-18 and Nadal_Django. All normal tennis fans know young Nadal was a beast, and on clay he was a million times better than 2019 Nadal.

 

[The Blond Blur]

 

[augustobt]

Next up he wins a 250 event in Brazil

Very first time I saw him on clay. We all predicted on the stands that he would eventually win Roland Garros, we just had no idea that it would be in that same year.

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

No?

 

[kevaninho]

Very first time I saw him on clay. We all predicted on the stands that he would eventually win Roland Garros, we just had no idea that it would be in that same year.

It must be special to witness a kid that good. He just had everything back then, and I know its easy to say now, but every player who has spoke about him since, all said they knew this kid was special.
Something we don't hear enough of from youngsters now.
Tennis needs someone like this soon. Even better if we got a couple, who could have a rivalry.
One who is better on HC, and the other on grass or clay.

 

[junior74]

No problem, no? It was the weakest era of all time, no?

Unbelievable season by Teendal!

 

[Third Serve]

No problem, no? It was the weakest era of all time, no?

Unbelievable Ombelibable season by Teendal!

 

[junior74]

Ombeleebel mistake!

 

[Nadal_Django]

The only thing I would take from that Nadal and incorporate into the 2019 Nadal, is his will, desire and commitment to grind every damn tournament out there being in Bastad, Marrakesh, Costa do Sauipe, or whatever...

Hmm or maybe i wouldn't take after all!? It's bad for his longevity.
Put 2019 Nadal in 2005 with that same will and youthful exuberance to grind everything out, and he wins probably 20 Tournaments out of 20. A complete and total carnage.

The version of Nadal who was losing to Blake or Hewitt in Slams that year, was beast at his absolute Peak!? Lol Only an extreme Fed fanboy like FedRule would say something like that!

 

[RF-18]

It must be special to witness a kid that good. He just had everything back then, and I know its easy to say now, but every player who has spoke about him since, all said they knew this kid was special.
Something we don't hear enough of from youngsters now.
Tennis needs someone like this soon. Even better if we got a couple, who could have a rivalry.
One who is better on HC, and the other on grass or clay.

Nadal is a prodigy, very rare to see someone that elite in that age. Therefore it's not easy to see it happen more often

 

[King No1e]

Pre-foot injury Nadal. Back when he wasn't playing every match through pain.

 

[ForehandCross]

Pre-foot injury Nadal. Back when he wasn't playing every match through pain.

When he was a tennis player who wasn't a injured man who plays tennis.

 

[junior74]

Pre-foot injury Nadal. Back when he wasn't playing every match through pain.

Sometimes I forget he has actually lost uninjured

 

[Breakpointerer]

Absolutely incredible stuff from a 18/19 year old. Never really looked at his stats for that season but 11 titles, including 4 masters and a Slam, is awesome for anybody. For a teenager? Ridiculous.

 

[TennisFan3]

I saw Nadal the first time in 2004. Live in a stadium. That day, I knew this young kid was going to be special. Maybe a future multi-slam winner or second fiddle to Roger.

But heck, even I could never have predicted that he would be still playing in 2020 with 19 slams.

Nadal of old (pre 2008) was a sight to see. One of the greatest warriors of the game. He was never the same IMO after 2009. The past few years, he's been a pale shadow of the mental beast he used to be. That he still wins slams and is near the top of tennis is remarkable.

 

[augustobt]

It must be special to witness a kid that good. He just had everything back then, and I know its easy to say now, but every player who has spoke about him since, all said they knew this kid was special.
Something we don't hear enough of from youngsters now.
Tennis needs someone like this soon. Even better if we got a couple, who could have a rivalry.
One who is better on HC, and the other on grass or clay.

I was a kid back then too A week shy of my 13th birthday

 

[KINGROGER]

The only thing I would take from that Nadal and incorporate into the 2019 Nadal, is his will, desire and commitment to grind every damn tournament out there being in Bastad, Marrakesh, Costa do Sauipe, or whatever...

Hmm or maybe i wouldn't take after all!? It's bad for his longevity.
Put 2019 Nadal in 2005 with that same will and youthful exuberance to grind everything out, and he wins probably 20 Tournaments out of 20. A complete and total carnage.

The version of Nadal who was losing to Blake or Hewitt in Slams that year, was beast at his absolute Peak!? Lol Only an extreme Fed fanboy like FedRule would say something like that!

There’s no way this can be a serious post. Too obvious. 0/10.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Whatever happened to him

 

[The Blond Blur]

The only thing I would take from that Nadal and incorporate into the 2019 Nadal, is his will, desire and commitment to grind every damn tournament out there being in Bastad, Marrakesh, Costa do Sauipe, or whatever...

Hmm or maybe i wouldn't take after all!? It's bad for his longevity.
Put 2019 Nadal in 2005 with that same will and youthful exuberance to grind everything out, and he wins probably 20 Tournaments out of 20. A complete and total carnage.

The version of Nadal who was losing to Blake or Hewitt in Slams that year, was beast at his absolute Peak!? Lol Only an extreme Fed fanboy like FedRule would say something like that!

And with that poast, you have officially had your "RAFAN" membership revoked.

 

[The Blond Blur]

I saw Nadal the first time in 2004. Live in a stadium. That day, I knew this young kid was going to be special. Maybe a future multi-slam winner or second fiddle to Roger.

But heck, even I could never have predicted that he would be still playing in 2020 with 19 slams.

Nadal of old (pre 2008) was a sight to see. One of the greatest warriors of the game. He was never the same IMO after 2009. The past few years, he's been a pale shadow of the mental beast he used to be. That he still wins slams and is near the top of tennis is remarkable.

Agreed, I have always held the opinion that 2009 was the year that got away. After his first multi slem year in 2008 when he became #1 for the first time, 2009 was a big letdown. After winning his lone AO title I thought for sure he'd win RG for the 5th straight year. But his battles with Joker during the clay season destroyed both of them for a while. Then he couldn't play Wimby which if he did, I would have picked him to win it considering he beat Ol' Rog in 3 slem finals in a row from RG08-AO09. It also cost him roughly 52 weeks at #1 since Ol' Rog got it back after winning RG if I not mistaken. Had he won RG he most likely goes 3 straight years as the YE#1. But such is life.

 

[StrongRule]

Agreed, I have always held the opinion that 2009 was the year that got away. After his first multi slem year in 2008 when he became #1 for the first time, 2009 was a big letdown. After winning his lone AO title I thought for sure he'd win RG for the 5th straight year. But his battles with Joker during the clay season destroyed both of them for a while. Then he couldn't play Wimby which if he did, I would have picked him to win it considering he beat Ol' Rog in 3 slem finals in a row from RG08-AO09. It also cost him roughly 52 weeks at #1 since Ol' Rog got it back after winning RG if I not mistaken. Had he won RG he most likely goes 3 straight years as the YE#1. But such is life.

I don't think so. To be fair, Soderling was in god mode in that RG match. Without him Nadal would have probably won the tournament, but he was outplayed by a GOATing opponent. The only time it ever happened to a decent Nadal in RG.

 

[TennisFan3]

Agreed, I have always held the opinion that 2009 was the year that got away. After his first multi slem year in 2008 when he became #1 for the first time, 2009 was a big letdown. After winning his lone AO title I thought for sure he'd win RG for the 5th straight year. But his battles with Joker during the clay season destroyed both of them for a while. Then he couldn't play Wimby which if he did, I would have picked him to win it considering he beat Ol' Rog in 3 slem finals in a row from RG08-AO09. It also cost him roughly 52 weeks at #1 since Ol' Rog got it back after winning RG if I not mistaken. Had he won RG he most likely goes 3 straight years as the YE#1. But such is life.

Great post. I think injuries have set back Nadal considerably and cost him several slams and weeks at #1. It's incredible to say that considering Nadal still has 19 slams.
The 2009 knee issues cost him dearly. That effectively cost him all of 2009 after the A.O I think the 2014 AO injury was also very significant. He lost a lot of confidence from that which contributed to his slump in 2015,2016.

I just feel that with more injuries Nadal has lost confidence in his body, which is why he is not as mentally strong since the past several years. Definitely not the fearless warrior he was in his young prime.

 

[TennisFan3]

I don't think so. To be fair, Soderling was in god mode in that RG match. Without him Nadal would have probably won the tournament, but he was outplayed by a GOATing opponent. The only time it ever happened to a decent Nadal in RG.

Soderling played well. And obviously would have a fair shot against a 100% Nadal as well. But saying that Nadal was at his best in 2009 F.O is incorrect. He was clearly hampered by injury. Also more importantly he was not mentally and physically prepared for a gruelling match against a guy he had breadsticked a few weeks ago in Rome. Also Soderling was NOT in God Mode in 2009 F.O. He was beaten in straights by Federer and went to 5 sets against other.
Soderling did NOT fall off a cliff from 2009 to 2010. 2010 F.O final Nadal handled Soderling in straight sets.

 

[Third Serve]

Soderling played well. And obviously would have a fair shot against a 100% Nadal as well. But saying that Nadal was at his best in 2009 F.O is incorrect. He was clearly hampered by injury. Also more importantly he was not mentally and physically prepared for a gruelling match against a guy he had breadsticked a few weeks ago in Rome. Also Soderling was NOT in God Mode in 2009 F.O. He was beaten in straights by Federer and went to 5 sets against other.
Soderling did NOT fall off a cliff from 2009 to 2010. 2010 F.O final Nadal handled Soderling in straight sets.

I don't think anyone claimed he was at his best. Read his post again. He was talking about simply a "decent" Nadal.

 

[The Blond Blur]

I don't think so. To be fair, Soderling was in god mode in that RG match. Without him Nadal would have probably won the tournament, but he was outplayed by a GOATing opponent. The only time it ever happened to a decent Nadal in RG.

Joker went out in the 3rd round and RAFA went out in the 4th (the earliest either of them went out when they were in their primes). Madrid was actually played after Rome in 2009-2010 and both guys weren’t the same for a while after that 4+ hour long battle. Soderling played amazing, but he needed the perfect storm of sorts to pull off the biggest upset in tennis history. He was zoning, the court and balls were wet from rain, and RAFA was not 100% given he withdrew from Wimby.

 

[TennisFan3]

I don't think anyone claimed he was at his best. Read his post again. He was talking about simply a "decent" Nadal.

Not picking words here. But IMO 2009 F.O was not "decent" by Nadal's high standards. Decent by Nadal's standards would be 2010, 2012, 2017, 2018 F.O etc. 2009 Nadal was below that level.
Of course, 2009 would be comparable to 2011 F.O and even 2019 F.O where Nadal actually won the championship.

So yeah, 2009 Nadal was not crippled or anything. But he wasn't at his best. He was mentally and physically hampered. But then of course Soderling played the match of his life.

I think the BIGGEST factor in that match was that Nadal was surprised with the level that Soderling produced. He was expecting a routine 4th round match.
When Soderling won the 1st set, you could see in Nadal's eyes that he wasn't prepared for the battle. For all the talk about Nadal NOT being complacent, that match proved that even the greatest players can sometimes be caught unaware.
Full credit to Soderling for pulling off the win, but it is NOT a given that 2009 F.O Nadal wins the tournament had he beaten Soderling.

 

[Third Serve]

Not picking words here. But IMO 2009 F.O was not "decent" by Nadal's high standards. Decent by Nadal's standards would be 2010, 2012, 2017, 2018 F.O etc. 2009 Nadal was below that level.
Of course, 2009 would be comparable to 2011 F.O and even 2019 F.O where Nadal actually won the championship.

So yeah, 2009 Nadal was not crippled or anything. But he wasn't at his best. He was mentally and physically hampered. But then of course Soderling played the match of his life.

I think the BIGGEST factor in that match was that Nadal was surprised with the level that Soderling produced. He was expecting a routine 4th round match.
When Soderling won the 1st set, you could see in Nadal's eyes that he wasn't prepared for the battle. For all the talk about Nadal NOT being complacent, that match proved that even the greatest players can sometimes be caught unaware.
Full credit to Soderling for pulling off the win, but it is NOT a given that 2009 F.O Nadal wins the tournament had he beaten Soderling.

I agree with your general point, but the first three RG runs you mentioned were by no means decent. They were some of his best runs ever, especially 2012. I would consider them "great" by Nadal's standards. "Decent" would fit in better with RG 2006, 2014, or 2019.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Joker went out in the 3rd round and RAFA went out in the 4th (the earliest either of them went out when they were in their primes). Madrid was actually played after Rome in 2009-2010 and both guys weren’t the same for a while after that 4+ hour long battle. Soderling played amazing, but he needed the perfect storm of sorts to pull off the biggest upset in tennis history. He was zoning, the court and balls were wet from rain, and RAFA was not 100% given he withdrew from Wimby.

Had he played Wimbledon he would've retroactively become 100% at RG? lol

 

[The Blond Blur]

Had he played Wimbledon he would've retroactively become 100% at RG? lol

Where did I say that I said given the fact that he withdrew from Wimby it meant he still wasn't healthy. The H2H at RG between RAFA and Sod was 3-1 advantage RAFA. Sod never even won another set after their 09 match lol.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Where did I say that I said given the fact that he withdrew from Wimby it meant he still wasn't healthy. The H2H at RG between RAFA and Sod was 3-1 advantage RAFA. Sod never even won another set after their 09 match lol.

How much percentage Nadal was at RG isn't determined by his Wimbledon performance, that's my point. This is reverse causality.

 

[Red Rick]

Would he retire them before bionic Muzziah tho?

 

[The Blond Blur]

How much percentage Nadal was at RG isn't determined by his Wimbledon performance, that's my point. This is reverse causality.

I never used that line of rationale. I was stating how he wasn't at his best at RG in 09 (the earliest he’s ever went out there) due to his knees. His withdraw from tournaments after RG was a consequence of those injuries. The early loss was the most immediate impact of his bad knees. The future withdraws from tournaments that take place a few weeks after shows that he was still dealing with the lingering effects.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Would he retire them before bionic Muzziah tho?

Only if Kim says it's ok and even then who knows?

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

I never used that line of rationale. I was stating how he wasn't at his best at RG in 09 (the earliest he’s ever went out there) due to his knees. His withdraw from tournaments after RG was a consequence of those injuries. The early loss was the most immediate impact of his bad knees. The future withdraws from tournaments that take place a few weeks after shows that he was still dealing with the lingering effects.

This line of reasoning ignores the fathomable possibility of Nadal's knees only becoming a serious problem during the switch to grass and him exaggerating their impact at RG in order to downplay a loss at his best tournament to his bête noire.

 

[myth]

Probably one of his best year on tour.

2010 season his best season even though he benefited from a massive drop in form from Federer.
2008 Destroying Fed at the FO and winning Wimbledon
2013 2 slams but was very lucky in beating Novak at the FO and USO.
2005 Amazing year 1 GS 4 MS 1000 (clay Hard Indoor)
2011: Amazing year only losing to Novak

 

[The Blond Blur]

This line of reasoning ignores the fathomable possibility of Nadal's knees only becoming a serious problem during the switch to grass and him exaggerating their impact at RG in order to downplay a loss at his best tournament to his bête noire.

He lost to Ol' Rog (who at this time was undeniably his pigeon) in straight sets in his own backyard of Madrid. By that logic he should have just skipped RG to "downplay" a loss. He was defending champ at Queens and Wimbledon and said that winning Wimbledon was his biggest dream as a kid. If he was able to play, he would have played.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

He lost to Ol' Rog (who at this time was undeniably his pigeon) in straight sets in his own backyard of Madrid. By that logic he should have just skipped RG to "downplay" a loss. He was defending champ at Queens and Wimbledon and said that winning Wimbledon was his biggest dream as a kid. If he was able to play, he would have played.

The Madrid loss had to do with fatigue more than anything. Anyone would be exhausted after 4.5 hours of epic tennis. Playing another great on the very next day was unsurprisingly too much.

We know Nadal isn't skipping anything on clay if he is at all able to walk and swing the racquet. That has always been the case. Elsewhere, he's reasonably open to skipping should the risk of injury be too high, which is just fine. Remember Federer skipping RG and playing Wimbledon in 2016 while not yet fully recovered, but grass is his surface and he'd never skip it unless he absolutely can't play. If Nadal was in that position, he'd have played at RG and skipped Wimbledon. Entirely sensible and logical. Actually he did play at RG despite a dodgy wrist and was only forced to withdraw when told his wrist was unlikely to survive the tournament. Can't see him risking a wrist injury elsewhere but his domain.

I'm not arguing Nadal was perfectly healthy, by the way. Clearly that was not the case. But he's won plenty of matches and perhaps even some titles not being in perfect condition. The knee issue was by no means debilitating. Even though it must have gotten worse for grass, it still wasn't entirely debilitating seeing as Nadal was able to play Boodles semi-seriously to test the waters, but evidently decided playing Wimbledon would carry too much risk, which is reasonable considering grass is tougher on his knees than clay, and he's unlikely to win if not in full health, especially with the draw he's got in 2009 (potentially would have to play Hewitt, Roddick, Murray, Federer in a row - truly the draw of death).

My point is that of the several factors contributing to the upset: Nadal having a mediocre day (partly owing to knees), dump weather all day (dump clay means topspin weakened means Nadal disadvantaged), opponent zoning from start to finish. Nadal has had an occasional mediocre day even at RG (Mathieu 06, Isner 11, Brands 13, Schwartzman 18 before postponement), played matches in dump weather and faced zoning opponents (mostly Fedovic), but only once did all of that happen on the same day, resulting in the legendary upset. Singling out knee pain as THE main factor is misleading and unfair. I think the weather was actually the most important, then Söderling's level and Nadal's knees probably in equal measure. When Nadal met the Swede in 2010/11, it was a sunny day and look what happened.

 

[MichaelNadal]

So glad that I have been along for the ride for so long

 

[Sudacafan]

Nadal is the Teen GOAT.
only Borg is a contender.
someone should tally stats of teen players. So we can compare.

 

[The Blond Blur]

My point is that of the several factors contributing to the upset: Nadal having a mediocre day (partly owing to knees), dump weather all day (dump clay means topspin weakened means Nadal disadvantaged), opponent zoning from start to finish. Nadal has had an occasional mediocre day even at RG (Mathieu 06, Isner 11, Brands 13, Schwartzman 18 before postponement), played matches in dump weather and faced zoning opponents (mostly Fedovic), but only once did all of that happen on the same day, resulting in the legendary upset. Singling out knee pain as THE main factor is misleading and unfair. I think the weather was actually the most important, then Söderling's level and Nadal's knees probably in equal measure. When Nadal met the Swede in 2010/11, it was a sunny day and look what happened.

I literally addressed all of that in a previous poast to WeakSuggestion so what are we even going back and forth about I never said it was just his knees, but it absolutely played a big role in losing that match. My exact wording was "He was zoning, the court and balls were wet from rain, and RAFA was not 100% given he withdrew from Wimby." You simply chose to take one thing I listed and ran with it.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

I literally addressed all of that in a previous poast to WeakSuggestion so what are we even going back and forth about I never said it was just his knees, but it absolutely played a big role in losing that match. My exact wording was "He was zoning, the court and balls were wet from rain, and RAFA was not 100% given he withdrew from Wimby." You simply chose to take one thing I listed and ran with it.

I specifically singled out "given he withdrew from Wimby" because it introduces a causal error. Since Wimbledon comes after RG, it doesn't matter what Nadal did or didn't do at Wimbledon when we're talking about RG. The assessment of Nadal not being 100% comes from direct observation, i.e. I watched the RG loss and saw he wasn't as quick as usual then, closer to current Nadal actually. (Say, if the 2018 QF was played in dump conditions from start to finish and Nadal had peak Söderling for opponent, a potential loss wouldn't be particularly surprising.) In contrast, for example after the 2013 Darcis loss at Wimby Nadal not just didn't withdraw from anything but actually resumed his winning ways, yet it's entirely obvious to an honest observer something wasn't right with him in that match. In fact, he was clearly worse than in the 2012 Rosol loss, where Nadal looked little hampered; surely whatever underlying issues there were must have been significant to warrant skipping the rest of the season, but as far as those two specific matches/losses go 2012 Wimbledal > 2013 Wimbledal in a heartbeat.

 

[RelentlessAttack]

Definitely one of the best teenage seasons ever

 

[DSH]

Probably one of his best year on tour.

2010 season his best season even though he benefited from a massive drop in form from Federer.
2008 Destroying Fed at the FO and winning Wimbledon
2013 2 slams but was very lucky in beating Novak at the FO and USO.
2005 Amazing year 1 GS 4 MS 1000 (clay Hard Indoor)
2011: Amazing year only losing to Novak

Nonsense, especially the notion that Nadal needed some "luck" to beat Djokovic at RG.
Hilarious stuff!