Nadal 2005

[AnOctorokForDinner]

How's about the fact that he beat a great playing Joker in 3 straight clay events compared to where 2011 he went down rather meekly in straights to him

In Miami of 2011 he was bent over gasping for air which he's never down before. And after 2009 he has been noticeably slower.

How about 2011ovic > 2009ovic at every single event when healthy?

Enormous LOL at pretending RAFA wasn't at his peak in Miami '11 considering he pushed peak Mugiamigoatovic in 3rd set TB. That would mean either asserting Nadal has a higher peak than Djokovic in Miami (LOLWOT?!), or denying Djokovic was in peak form at Miami '11 (given he had a peak season and routed everyone in that specific tournament before Nadal, sure he was).

 

[The Blond Blur]

Well 1) Hewitt was playing well and was still very solid on grass 2) Roddick was coming back from injury at Queens in 2008 and nowhere near the same level as a year later at Wimbledon 3) Murray was good enough in the years prior to 2012-2013 to give Nadal very solid contests on grass 4) Nadal needed his best grass form to overcome Fed in 2008, if he couldn't summon it he'd be in big trouble

Nadal has never gone through a draw that stacked except at the FO, think you're wildly overestimating his chances and the cumalitive impact of going through four rounds of very good players - especially against Fed but whatever agree to disagree.

Fair enough, I just don't think the likes of Hewitt or Roddick had what it took at that point in their careers to beat him in BO5 at that point in his career. As far as Murray is concerned, the grass H2H is 3-0 RAFA with Murray only winning 1-10 sets played at Wimby. I think he was just too firmly root in Fed's head at that point, but we'll never know.

 

[StrongRule]

How about 2011ovic > 2009ovic at every single event when healthy?

Enormous LOL at pretending RAFA wasn't at his peak in Miami '11 considering he pushed peak Mugiamigoatovic in 3rd set TB. That would mean either asserting Nadal has a higher peak than Djokovic in Miami (LOLWOT?!), or denying Djokovic was in peak form at Miami '11 (given he had a peak season and routed everyone in that specific tournament before Nadal, sure he was).

Miami was the only tournament where Nadal was better in 2011 than 2009. It's a total joke saying Nadal was at his peak during the 2011 clay season though.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Miami was the only tournament where Nadal was better in 2011 than 2009. It's a total joke saying Nadal was at his peak during the 2011 clay season though.

Nadal wasn't at his peak in 2009 post-AO either though. Allowing post-prime Bandy to have five match points in IW, losing a double break lead in the decider to del Potro in Miami, losing a 2-6 set to non-peak Djokovic in MC of all places and spending enormous effort not to lose to him in Madrid. Doesn't sound like a PEAKDAL performance, does it?

 

[The Blond Blur]

How about 2011ovic > 2009ovic at every single event when healthy?

Enormous LOL at pretending RAFA wasn't at his peak in Miami '11 considering he pushed peak Mugiamigoatovic in 3rd set TB. That would mean either asserting Nadal has a higher peak than Djokovic in Miami (LOLWOT?!), or denying Djokovic was in peak form at Miami '11 (given he had a peak season and routed everyone in that specific tournament before Nadal, sure he was).

I guess you favorite thing to do here is to keeping picking arguments (even when things have been amicably settled) and then take things I say either out of context or flat out put words in my mouth. Where in my response to you did, I say that RAFA wasn’t in his prime in 2011? I also claimed that he had a higher peak in Miami than Joker. You’re just making wild assumption at this point. Talk about LOL

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

I guess you favorite thing to do here is to keeping picking arguments (even when things have been amicably settled) and then take things I say either out of context or flat out put words in my mouth. Where in my response to you did, I say that RAFA wasn’t in his prime in 2011? I also claimed that he had a higher peak in Miami than Joker. You’re just making wild assumption at this point. Talk about LOL

Well I could've shut up as usual but am in the mood to gently nudge ya for that silly belief in hypothetical uninjured Nadal being favoured at Wimbledon, exactly as you seem a reasonable fan so why this ****ity.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Well I could've shut up as usual but am in the mood to gently nudge ya for that silly belief in hypothetical uninjured Nadal being favoured at Wimbledon, exactly as you seem a reasonable fan so why this ****ity.

He won in 2008 and 2010 and the guy he had been dominating won the tournament that year. Did I miss anything All I said was that he was clearly injured/not at his best physically in RG09 and it was bad enough he had to skip the grass season. Had he been healthy, he would have been my pick to win that year. How exactly is that a hot take?

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

He won in 2008 and 2010 and the guy he had been dominating won the tournament that year. Did I miss anything All I said was that he was clearly injured/not at his best physically in RG09 and it was bad enough he had to skip the grass season. Had he been healthy, he would have been my pick to win that year. How exactly is that a hot take?

Hypothetical uninjured Nadal is automatically in peak form? Because it took Nadal in career peak form AND Federer being a mental midget for Rafi to squeeze the WB/AO wins. The latter alone doesn't seem enough.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Hypothetical uninjured Nadal is automatically in peak form? Because it took Nadal in career peak form AND Federer being a mental midget for Rafi to squeeze the WB/AO wins. The latter alone doesn't seem enough.

Once again you are assuming I'm like clayqueen or octobrina who think that RAFA only loses if he's injured. NatF and mikedanny believe that he would not have won which is fine. I think he would have given the fact that 2 of the 4 guys brought up were well past their best days. Murray has never even pushed RAFA on grass and Ol' Rog was his pigeon at the time.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Once again you are assuming I'm like clayqueen or octobrina who think that RAFA only loses if he's injured. NatF and mikedanny believe that he would not have won which is fine. I think he would have given the fact that 2 of the 4 guys brought up were well past their best days. Murray has never even pushed RAFA on grass and Ol' Rog was his pigeon at the time.

Some pigeon who you need to be in peak form to beat and even then in five sets.

 

[NatF]

Fair enough, I just don't think the likes of Hewitt or Roddick had what it took at that point in their careers to beat him in BO5 at that point in his career. As far as Murray is concerned, the grass H2H is 3-0 RAFA with Murray only winning 1-10 sets played at Wimby. I think he was just too firmly root in Fed's head at that point, but we'll never know.

Roddick nearly beat Fed, don't see why Nadal would be much tougher but ok.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Roddick nearly beat Fed, don't see why Nadal would be much tougher but ok.

Do you mean that Roddick would have beaten RAFA or do you mean that RAFA wouldn't have been a tougher challenge to Ol' Rog?

 

[The Blond Blur]

Some pigeon who you need to be in peak form to beat and even then in five sets.

3 straight slem final losses. If I was RAFA I'd be jumping at the chance to play Ol' Rog again.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

3 straight slem final losses. If I was RAFA I'd be jumping at the chance to play Ol' Rog again.

RAFA also lost 3 str8t to NOVAK, no? But it didn't matter when they came to argee given the form disparity: as Ruffy reached the finale without dropping sets, Noel struggled greatly against peak Seppi and peak Tsonga. True, even such struggling Noel made peakdal work for it, but never remotely close to winning still.

 

[The Blond Blur]

RAFA also lost 3 str8t to NOVAK, no? But it didn't matter when they came to argee given the form disparity: as Ruffy reached the finale without dropping sets, Noel struggled greatly against peak Seppi and peak Tsonga. True, even such struggling Noel made peakdal work for it, but never remotely close to winning still.

RAFA had already beaten Joker twice in the clay season leading up to RG12. And LOL at comparing Ol' Rog's mental fortitude to RAFA's. Even if they did play and the match was tight, I'm backing the guy who's tougher mentally.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

RAFA had already beaten Joker twice in the clay season leading up to RG12. And LOL at comparing Ol' Rog's mental fortitude to RAFA's. Even if they did play and the match was tight, I'm backing the guy who's tougher mentally.

Fedr reset some of the mental burden by beating The Nadal in Madrid, too. That match was tight too, but still not enough for Nadal to prevail 'cause he wasn't at peak and Fed wasn't subpar, needed either one or the other.

 

[NatF]

Do you mean that Roddick would have beaten RAFA or do you mean that RAFA wouldn't have been a tougher challenge to Ol' Rog?

I'm saying Roddick nearly beat Fed, so he should at least give Nadal a very stern challenge.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Fedr reset some of the mental burden by beating The Nadal in Madrid, too. That match was tight too, but still not enough for Nadal to prevail 'cause he wasn't at peak and Fed wasn't subpar, needed either one or the other.

Yeah he just needed Joker to end both of their clay seasons by going to war for almost 5 hours

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Yeah he just needed Joker to end both of their clay seasons by going to war for almost 5 hours

Blame claygoatdal for not being good enough to swat djokovic easily with the powers of his claygoatness.

 

[The Blond Blur]

I'm saying Roddick nearly beat Fed, so he should at least give Nadal a very stern challenge.

Which is fair, and I don't have a problem with that. I just think RAFA would have plenty in the tank considering that points on grass are shorter than they are on Plexicusion.

 

[StrongRule]

I wonder how a thread about 2005 Nadal turned into a long discussion about his 2009 and 2011 form.

 

[NatF]

Which is fair, and I don't have a problem with that. I just think RAFA would have plenty in the tank considering that points on grass are shorter than they are on Plexicusion.

Which is counter balanced by there being four tough matches instead of two. Not to mention it's easier to play back to back epics at the beginning of the year when fresh then after a season with already 50+ matches.

 

[The Blond Blur]

I wonder how a thread about 2005 Nadal turned into a long discussion about his 2009 and 2011 form.

@AnOctorokForDinner is just dumbfounded that I think if RAFA was able to play Wimby in 09 that he'd be my pick to win. The audacity of me

 

[The Blond Blur]

Which is counter balanced by there being four tough matches instead of two. Not to mention it's easier to play back to back epics at the beginning of the year when fresh then after a season with already 50+ matches.

I don't think that Hewitt or Murray would have presented the same challenge as Roddick though. Of the 3 guys he would have had to play, I think only ARod could have really bothered him.

 

[The Blond Blur]

Blame claygoatdal for not being good enough to swat djokovic easily with the powers of his claygoatness.

I don't think one win against a tired opponent on no days rest is going to exercise enough demons to turned the tide is my point. I wasn't convinced that RAFA had turned the corner against Joker in 2012 until after he beat him in Rome as well where Joker played much better.

 

[NatF]

I don't think that Hewitt or Murray would have presented the same challenge as Roddick though. Of the 3 guys he would have had to play, I think only ARod could have really bothered him.

You probably would have said the same thing before he played Haase and Petzschner no?

 

[Druss]

You should also include the 2009 Del Potro season in that category.

For sure Delpo’s 2009 would be #3.

 

[The Blond Blur]

You probably would have said the same thing before he played Haase and Petzschner no?

Hey I mean he won didn't he He's usually more vulnerable in the early rounds of slems and plays himself into form. By the time he met Roddick and especially Murray, i think he'd be firing on all cylinders.

 

[NatF]

He mean won didn't he He's usually more vulnerable in the early rounds of slems and plays himself into form. By the time he met Roddick and especially Murray, i think he'd be firing on all cylinders.

Big difference between meeting Petzschner in the 3R and Hewitt in the 4R?

Anyway, let's go back to agreeing to disagree

 

[The Blond Blur]

Big difference between meeting Petzschner in the 3R and Hewitt in the 4R?

Anyway, let's go back to agreeing to disagree

That's what I've been saying/trying to do I'm ok with people disagreeing on whether he would have won. It's just when people say I'm "silly" for thinking me could have won is my issue

 

[Hitman]

Big difference between meeting Petzschner in the 3R and Hewitt in the 4R?

Anyway, let's go back to agreeing to disagree

Hewitt would have faced Nadal in the 2nd round, when the grass was still very slick. Del Potro took Nadal's spot that year, and Hewitt dispatched him in the 2nd round.

 

[NatF]

Hewitt would have faced Nadal in the 2nd round, when the grass was still very slick. Del Potro took Nadal's spot that year, and Hewitt dispatched him in the 2nd round.

Ah thanks for the correction. Game over for Nadal

 

[Hitman]

Ah thanks for the correction. Game over for Nadal

Possibly. Hewitt is one of the few players who knows how to play on grass, and playing him that early, especially when he was in very good form that event (he took a zoning Roddick to five sets in the quarters), would be difficult for anyone.

 

[kevaninho]

Once again you are assuming I'm like clayqueen or octobrina who think that RAFA only loses if he's injured. NatF and mikedanny believe that he would not have won which is fine. I think he would have given the fact that 2 of the 4 guys brought up were well past their best days. Murray has never even pushed RAFA on grass and Ol' Rog was his pigeon at the time.

I agree with this.
Im also pretty sure, had Nadal won RG 09, as lets face it, only Soderling in that form was ever going to beat even a less than top form Nadal there, then the whole world would've proclaimed Nadal favourite for W 09 too.

Only this loss at RG is what makes everyone presume Nadal was going to be beaten at Wimbledon too.

I especially have to laugh when people bring up Murray 09 as some sort of big challenge to Rafa on grass LOL Its always easy to look back and make someone better than they are, just because they eventually improved to become a Wimbledon champ themselves. But in 09 he would've been swatted away in straights by Nadal IMO.

As for Hewitt and Roddick, they are also boosted because they had a good Wimbledon that year. ( which is always easier when the number 1 in the world is out of the draw and defending champ ).

Yes, these guys can beat Nadal, they also aren't going to be easy matches, but again, people are looking back with blinkers on, and forgetting Nadals level on grass in 07 and 08.

That's the biggest travesty about all these people claiming it was a draw from hell.
Nadal had everyone intimidated before he even stepped on a court back then, and it would've taken an almighty, zoning effort for someone to beat him.

Lets not confuse that Nadal with the one who lost to Darcis and Rosol.