Nadal 2008 vs Djokovic 2011...at Wimbledon...who wins?

Mike Sams

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
The Nadal from the 2008 Wimbledon final vs the Djokovic from the 2011 Wimbledon final? If they played in the Wimbledon final both at their peaks...:)
Who wins and why?

Here's some stats comparing 2008 Nadal to 2011 Nadal, both from the finals of Wimbledon:

Nadal 2008 Wimbledon final vs Federer
6 Aces
3 double faults
73% first serve percentage
69% first serve points won
58% second serve points won
92% BPs saved (12/13)

Nadal 2011 Wimbledon final vs Djokovic
5 aces
1 double fault
78% first serve percentage
67% first serve points won
44% second serve points won
16% BPs saved (1/6)

Could Nadal from 2008 Wimbledon be a more formidable matchup against the on-fire Djokovic of 2011 Wimbledon?
 
It doesn't matter at which Nadal, Djokovic faced. The only chance Nadal has at winning was tiebreaks....or a mental lapse from Djokovic.
 
TopFH said:
Same result as this year.
Click to expand...


Nadal's level in 2008 was miles above his level at Wimby this year. No way Nadal would have lost to Cvac if he had played like he did in 2008.


And since you think Nadal played like crap in the 2008 Wimby final,what does that say about Roger since he lost to Nadal that year?
 
Nadal of 2008-2010 vs Djokovic of 2011 I think Nadal would win on clay and grass, but Djokovic would be the favorite still on all hard court surfaces.
 
Clarky21 said:
Nadal's level in 2008 was miles above his level at Wimby this year. No way Nadal would have lost to Cvac if he had played like he did in 2008.


And since you think Nadal played like crap in the 2008 Wimby final,what does that say about Roger since he lost to Nadal that year?
Click to expand...
You often strike me as a ******* who's just terribly bitter about Nadal losing to Novak. You probably thought Nadal was going to cruise through 2011 like he did in 2010 and are just sorely displeased he met a guy who can actually match him pound for pound and defeat him at his own game.

Nadal almost lost to a low-confidence Roger at Wimbledon. So you have no grounds whatsoever to claim that he wouldn't against Novak. Not to say he would've surely lost. Maybe it would've been a really close match with Nadal winning but really you're grossly exaggerating Nadal's level in 2008 . We don't know because comparisons are never easy when comparing the best levels of multiple slam winners. Also, the poster didn't say Nadal played like crap in 2008. You are misrepresenting his post because in reality, you have no convincing argument to prove the point you're trying to make.
And yet again, I have to be amazed at how *******s are starting threads bashing another fanbase :lol:
 
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Clarky21 said:
Nadal's level in 2008 was miles above his level at Wimby this year. No way Nadal would have lost to Cvac if he had played like he did in 2008.


And since you think Nadal played like crap in the 2008 Wimby final,what does that say about Roger since he lost to Nadal that year?
Click to expand...

Well the one thing I noticed was the BP conversions. Nadal had to save 12/13 BPs against Federer in that Wimby 2008 final. Could he have saved all those BPs against the world's best returner in Djokovic? Judging by the Wimby 2011 final, it seems apparently he couldn't. 5/6 BPs converted is a pretty telling tale that perhaps Nadal would've had to try to beat Djokovic off the ground.
 
Clarky21 said:
Nadal's level in 2008 was miles above his level at Wimby this year. No way Nadal would have lost to Cvac if he had played like he did in 2008.


And since you think Nadal played like crap in the 2008 Wimby final,what does that say about Roger since he lost to Nadal that year?
Click to expand...

Roger looked scared to me in the Wimby final. When they were walking out to the court, Roger didn't seem confident. I guess getting creamed in Roland Garros final 4 weeks prior probably crushed his confidence completely.
 
MichaelNadal said:
Lmao right. That didn't even happen this year and he played WAY better in 2008. You don't have to troll ALL the time you know. Djokovic didn't even play all that well during Wimbledon.
Click to expand...

True. He actually played his best match in the final. Prior to that, he didn't look that hot. His defense in the final though was phenomenal. Nadal just couldn't get anything by him.:shock:
 
Mike Sams said:
The Nadal from the 2008 Wimbledon final vs the Djokovic from the 2011 Wimbledon final? If they played in the Wimbledon final both at their peaks...:)
Who wins and why?

Here's some stats comparing 2008 Nadal to 2011 Nadal, both from the finals of Wimbledon:

Nadal 2008 Wimbledon final vs Federer
6 Aces
3 double faults
73% first serve percentage
69% first serve points won
58% second serve points won
92% BPs saved (12/13)

Nadal 2011 Wimbledon final vs Djokovic
5 aces
1 double fault
78% first serve percentage
67% first serve points won
44% second serve points won
16% BPs saved (1/6)

Could Nadal from 2008 Wimbledon be a more formidable matchup against the on-fire Djokovic of 2011 Wimbledon?
Click to expand...

:confused: Don't really see the point of this thread. I mean Nadal playing his best tennis ever this year still went down to Novak rather meekly so common sense dictates that other versions of Nadal would have had even less of a chance against Novak 2.0.
 
Actually it would have been a great match since both guys were executing in those periods.

Nadal 2008 was hitting his DTL FH much better and he actually had the confidence to step in and hit some big CC BH, even on the run. Also, he was a bit faster watching the tapes. Not to mention that he didn't have a mental block against Djoko. By the time they met in WB, Djokovic had beaten Rafa 4 times in 2011 and Rafa was the one that came tight in those matches. Nadal 2008 wouldn't have such a problem and would be able to swing more freely.

And it's not as clear cut as some may think. Nadal was executing far more poorly on all accounts in 2011(except for 1set serving) and still won a set.
The only time Djokovic seemed off the hook good in the 2011 final was the second set when he zoned. Otherwise he was good(not great) against an average Nadal.I'm not sure Djokovic could afford a loose set against 2008 Nadal.

Regarding Nadal "barely" beating Federer in 2008 WB. Nadal was leading by 2-0 and Fed looked thoroughly deflated. I'm guessing most here(if they are being honest) thought a straight set defeat wouldn't have looked weird at the time before the rains came. That rain break came and it brought some life back into Roger and allowed Nadal to think about the success that was about to come and he got tight.That 4set tiebreak is a massive choke on Nadal's part that I doubt would have come had the match been played continously.

My 2 cents.
 
namelessone said:
Actually it would have been a great match since both guys were executing in those periods.

Nadal 2008 was hitting his DTL FH much better and he actually had the confidence to step in and hit some big CC BH, even on the run. Also, he was a bit faster watching the tapes. Not to mention that he didn't have a mental block against Djoko. By the time they met in WB, Djokovic had beaten Rafa 4 times in 2011 and Rafa was the one that came tight in those matches. Nadal 2008 wouldn't have such a problem and would be able to swing more freely.

And it's not as clear cut as some may think. Nadal was executing far more poorly on all accounts in 2011(except for 1set serving) and still won a set.
The only time Djokovic seemed off the hook good in the 2011 final was the second set when he zoned. Otherwise he was good(not great) against an average Nadal.I'm not sure Djokovic could afford a loose set against 2008 Nadal.

Regarding Nadal "barely" beating Federer in 2008 WB. Nadal was leading by 2-0 and Fed looked thoroughly deflated. I'm guessing most here(if they are being honest) thought a straight set defeat wouldn't have looked weird at the time before the rains came. That rain break came and it brought some life back into Roger and allowed Nadal to think about the success that was about to come and he got tight.That 4set tiebreak is a massive choke on Nadal's part that I doubt would have come had the match been played continously.

My 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Try to avoid "opinions", projections and baseless assumptions caused by your emotional attachment to Ralph.
They are useless in the face of hard data.
 
aphex said:
Try to avoid "opinions" caused by your emotional attachment to Ralph.
They are useless in the face of hard data.
Click to expand...

The hard data is that Nadal was executing better(on all aspects of his game) in 2008. Most people in the tennis world would agree. People were talking about Nadal looking worse early in 2011 compared to 2010, nevermind 2008 where his execution was best overall(though he did have better peaks for HC in parts of 2009 and 2010).

Also, still trolling I see.
 
namelessone said:
The hard data is that Nadal was executing better(on all aspects of his game) in 2008. Most people in the tennis world would agree. People were talking about Nadal looking worse early in 2011 compared to 2010, nevermind 2008 where his execution was best overall(though he did have better peaks for HC in parts of 2009 and 2010).

Also, still trolling I see.
Click to expand...

2008: 82W-11L: 88.17%
2011 (barring Djoko 2.0 losses): 65W-7L: 90.28%

As I said, hard data. Try to use them.
 
LOL@ this thread. Nadal was ABUSING(politely put) Federer's BH in Wimby 2008 final as he has been doing since he was in his diapers and yet Federer fought back from 2 sets to love down and ALMOST beat him in the 5th. Nadal is a NIGHTMARE matchup for Federer. Let me repeat that, NIGHTMARE.

Are you telling me a 17 year old Nadal beat prime Federer in Miami because he's a better player? The matchup is so unfavourably poised in Nadal's favour,its not even funny. When has Federer ever beaten Nadal in a 5 setter in 3 straight sets? There's your answer. Federer has to repeatedly redline to win sets. I suspect most Nadal fans don't play tennis so they're ignorant of what a matchup issue is.

Nadal simply can't abuse Nole's BH and that's why he would stand no chance against prime Novak(Nole 2.0). I think Novak would win in 4 sets.
 
monfed said:
LOL@ this thread. Nadal was ABUSING(politely put) Federer's BH in Wimby 2008 final as he has been doing since he was in his diapers and yet Federer fought back from 2 sets to love down and ALMOST beat him in the 5th. Nadal is a NIGHTMARE matchup for Federer. Let me repeat that, NIGHTMARE.

Are you telling me a 17 year old Nadal beat prime Federer in Miami because he's a better player? The matchup is so unfavourably poised in Nadal's favour,its not even funny. When has Federer ever beaten Nadal in a 5 setter in 3 straight sets? There's your answer. Federer has to repeatedly redline to win sets. I suspect most Nadal fans don't play tennis so they're ignorant of what a matchup issue is.

Nadal simply can't abuse Nole's BH and that's why he would stand no chance against prime Novak(Nole 2.0). I think Novak would win in 4 sets.
Click to expand...

As for match-ups, I was shocked to see Davydenko have a 0-7 h2h against Blake.
 
tennis_pro said:
As for match-ups, I was shocked to see Davydenko have a 0-7 h2h against Blake.
Click to expand...

you know I was just thinking, we need a thread about famous bad match ups.

the players involved, and what makes it a bad match up for one player and a dream match up for another.

I mean, we know about nadal fed, djoko nadal, fed djoko,


but what about bad matchups for other players?
 
monfed said:
LOL@ this thread. Nadal was ABUSING(politely put) Federer's BH in Wimby 2008 final as he has been doing since he was in his diapers and yet Federer fought back from 2 sets to love down and ALMOST beat him in the 5th. Nadal is a NIGHTMARE matchup for Federer. Let me repeat that, NIGHTMARE.

Are you telling me a 17 year old Nadal beat prime Federer in Miami because he's a better player? The matchup is so unfavourably poised in Nadal's favour,its not even funny. When has Federer ever beaten Nadal in a 5 setter in 3 straight sets? There's your answer. Federer has to repeatedly redline to win sets. I suspect most Nadal fans don't play tennis so they're ignorant of what a matchup issue is.

Nadal simply can't abuse Nole's BH and that's why he would stand no chance against prime Novak(Nole 2.0). I think Novak would win in 4 sets.
Click to expand...



Hell, the djoko nadal match up is worse than fed nadal.

at least surface factors into it somehwat i.e. I like fed's chances agaisnt rafa on a fast, low bouncing hC, or grass.

with djoko nadal, it doesnt seem to matter the surface. when fully fit, djoker is taking it( although the matches were closer on slower HC).
 
SLD76 said:
you know I was just thinking, we need a thread about famous bad match ups.

the players involved, and what makes it a bad match up for one player and a dream match up for another.

I mean, we know about nadal fed, djoko nadal, fed djoko,


but what about bad matchups for other players?
Click to expand...

Safin Santoro comes to mind.

SLD76 said:
Hell, the djoko nadal match up is worse than fed nadal.

at least surface factors into it somehwat i.e. I like fed's chances agaisnt rafa on a fast, low bouncing hC, or grass.

with djoko nadal, it doesnt seem to matter the surface. when fully fit, djoker is taking it( although the matches were closer on slower HC).
Click to expand...

You may have point, this year has certainly illustrated that. Federer really couldn't solve Nadal, and at the moment, it looks like Nadal is now in a similiar situation with Djokovic, who has found his stride.
 
Who knows? Nadal was playing his best grass court tennis in 2008, in 2010 he wasn't playing this well and probably would have lost to 2011 Djokovic. But it's a question of how much the mental aspect comes into it. Djokovic has inflated his confidence against nadal and Nadal's has been crushed because Novak softened him up earlier in the year. Without that maybe 2008 Nadal wins, just like Nadal softened Federer up throughout 2008 - if he played 2007 Federer who was a better player and not mentally damaged from several beatings, 2007 Federer probably wins.

With Djokovic 2011 agaisnt 2008 Nadal it's harder to say since 2008 Djokovic never even played Nadal at Wimbledon that year, so we've nothing to measure it by. However he took him close at Queens 2008 and Wimbledon 2007 was close til Novak retired, so I think the match would be a close one.
 
Hitman said:
Safin Santoro comes to mind.



You may have point, this year has certainly illustrated that. Federer really couldn't solve Nadal, and at the moment, it looks like Nadal is now in a similiar situation with Djokovic, who has found his stride.
Click to expand...

Federer plays what the masses refer to as 'beautiful' tennis. And 'beautiful' tennis does not work against Nadal. I believe 'power' and 'grinding' is what beats Nadal mixed in with 'precision' and 'aggression'. Djokovic doesn't play 'beautiful' tennis but his game indeed involves the 4 factors I listed which are the ingredients in handling Nadal.
Federer could never grind the way Djokovic and Nadal do. It's not in his nature even if he has gone to the well a few times. He has to go to a different level to beat Nadal and it's much more difficult to keep up over a 5 set period, not to mention having his wimpy and susceptible backhand abused every second.
 
Towser83 said:
Who knows? Nadal was playing his best grass court tennis in 2008, in 2010 he wasn't playing this well and probably would have lost to 2011 Djokovic. But it's a question of how much the mental aspect comes into it. Djokovic has inflated his confidence against nadal and Nadal's has been crushed because Novak softened him up earlier in the year. Without that maybe 2008 Nadal wins, just like Nadal softened Federer up throughout 2008 - if he played 2007 Federer who was a better player and not mentally damaged from several beatings, 2007 Federer probably wins.

With Djokovic 2011 agaisnt 2008 Nadal it's harder to say since 2008 Djokovic never even played Nadal at Wimbledon that year, so we've nothing to measure it by. However he took him close at Queens 2008 and Wimbledon 2007 was close til Novak retired, so I think the match would be a close one.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised nobody looks at the BP conversions. Nadal was 1/6 against Djokovic in BPs saved and 12/13 against Federer. Which means Federer did well enough to give himself opportunities but could never execute whereas Djokovic gave himself opportunities and executed! It may all have come down to the backhand.
 
Mike Sams said:
Federer plays what the masses refer to as 'beautiful' tennis. And 'beautiful' tennis does not work against Nadal. I believe 'power' and 'grinding' is what beats Nadal mixed in with 'precision' and 'aggression'. Djokovic doesn't play 'beautiful' tennis but his game indeed involves the 4 factors I listed which are the ingredients in handling Nadal.
Federer could never grind the way Djokovic and Nadal do. It's not in his nature even if he has gone to the well a few times. He has to go to a different level to beat Nadal and it's much more difficult to keep up over a 5 set period, not to mention having his wimpy and susceptible backhand abused every second.
Click to expand...

wimpy bh? the same wimpy bh that destroyed blake in a brilliant 06 MS event?

that same wimpy bh that had murray scrambling to hit to the fh side during their AO final??

Please, only rafa can breakdown Fed's bh routinely, and he has the most topsin in the history of tennis!
 
Well, he played better in 2008 but big part of his victory was abusing Fed's backhand as usual, so not having that advantage IMO means he would have lost anyway.
 
So we have "fans" jumping on Nole's bandwagon because he can grind with Nadal. But they will both suffer for their grinding style. nadal and Nole may when some battles, but Roger will when the war because his beautiful tennis you put down is more efficient than grinding. I wonder how Nole's shoulder feels. I never seen Roger with any shoulder injuries. Nadal's strategy to attack Rogers's BH didn't work at last years WTF so Nadal didn't have any answers and lost going away 6-1.
 
FedererFan2012 said:
So we have "fans" jumping on Nole's bandwagon because he can grind with Nadal. But they will both suffer for their grinding style. nadal and Nole may when some battles, but Roger will when the war because his beautiful tennis you put down is more efficient than grinding. I wonder how Nole's shoulder feels. I never seen Roger with any shoulder injuries. Nadal's strategy to attack Rogers's BH didn't work at last years WTF so Nadal didn't have any answers and lost going away 6-1.
Click to expand...

Federer did have back problems for a time in 2008-09.
 
SLD76 said:
wimpy bh? the same wimpy bh that destroyed blake in a brilliant 06 MS event?

that same wimpy bh that had murray scrambling to hit to the fh side during their AO final??

Please, only rafa can breakdown Fed's bh routinely, and he has the most topsin in the history of tennis!
Click to expand...

Nadal makes it wimpy. Because nobody else on the tour is a lefty who hits with such damaging topspin to Federer's backhand 99.99999% of the time. Those other guys hit flat. Nadal's shot is a whole other level of hurting for the Federer backhand. He was basically born to crush the Federer backhand. LOL!
 
The indoor HC doesn't allow him to do that. Roger didn't loose the FO because of his BH, he made way too many UF errors. There's nothing wrong with his back and ain't you the one who said Roger is still playing because he has to maintain his lifestyle. Oh yeah you hater.
 
Fed is slamless in 2011. That says a lot of his decline. And anyone can see that Nadal's topspin bothers Federer's backhand. Probably more noticeable surprisingly in Miami.
 
He went to 2 semi's, 1 QF, 1 final. I will take that because he went slamless in 2011 after what 8 straight seasons winning a slam. I wonder many seasons Murray will go slamless. Roger made sure that Murray remained slamless. U mad?
 
Clarky21 said:
Nadal's level in 2008 was miles above his level at Wimby this year. No way Nadal would have lost to Cvac if he had played like he did in 2008.


And since you think Nadal played like crap in the 2008 Wimby final,what does that say about Roger since he lost to Nadal that year?
Click to expand...

When did I state that Nadal played like crap? He played some great tennis. If this suits your liking, I will say it would be a hard fought 5-set battle.
 
Mike Sams said:
Nadal makes it wimpy. Because nobody else on the tour is a lefty who hits with such damaging topspin to Federer's backhand 99.99999% of the time. Those other guys hit flat. Nadal's shot is a whole other level of hurting for the Federer backhand. He was basically born to crush the Federer backhand. LOL!
Click to expand...

Sad, but true.
 
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