westside
Hall of Fame
Connors in 5!
Nadal 2008 vs Djokovic 2011...at Wimbledon...who wins?
- Thread starter Mike Sams
- Start date
Connors in 5!
Sentinel
Bionic Poster
Aphex's first law ?
Wasn't that already proven by Dr Zagor long ago. Or is this an independent discovery ?
Murrayfan31
Hall of Fame
Murray 24 Fed 30. Too bad is almost over for Fed. You can only live on his past. Murray will do better next year. Murray and Djokovic are the future.
FedererFan2012
Banned
You shouldn't focus so much on age. You upset with Roger for beating Murray twice in a slam final and not , interesting. Murray was too defensive in both encounters with Fed. Fed takes the ball early and takes control of the point. Andy the so called tactician ( laugh) that he is should have known better. Roger went into both matches looking to take Andy's belief and time away to execute his shots. Roger has played in what 23 GS finals and has played in what 3 GS finals. Murray didn't take his shots but was waiting for Roger give it to him and Roger had other plans. So don't hate him for not giving Murray a fluke GS victory.
Biscuitmcgriddleson
Professional
I find it funny that you are so dismissive of Federer and his chances to do basically anything anymore. I do think that Murray will have a better year next year. He might finally win a set in a major final. On the contrary, it's not an absolute that he will do better/win a slam. There have been others with greater talent that haven't been able to win a major.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
Too bad your beloved Murray and Djokovic will never achieve half of what Federer and Nadal already have.
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celoft
Guest
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Well if Djokovic wins another Slam, he will have achieved literally HALF of what Nadal has achieved in the Slam count alone. Djokovic also is more than halfway to Nadal in the Masters titles count. And total titles alone, Djokovic is more than halfway.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
Even if Djokovic comes close to Nadal's achievements someday, Murray will always be light years behind Nadal, Djokovic light years behind Federer, and the combined duos light years apart. I stated them that way since Murrayfan is constantly thrasing both Federer and Nadal and building up both Djokovic and Murray as if they were the 2 best players ever, purely laughable considering Murray imparticular has achieved nothing compared to the others.
You forgot retirement.
So what you're saying is that he is a quarter of Fed.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Every player playing today or coming on the scene isn't competing to try to overtake Federer's achievements. They would like to make their own mark. Yeah Federer is an all-time great. It doesn't mean Djokovic is a big failure just because he isn't likely to win 16 Grand Slams.:lol::lol:
The only thing that matters is that Djokovic is #1 today and Federer isn't. The world only goes forward...
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
No I'm saying he is the world #1 and has smashed both Federer and Nadal numerous times in many many different tournaments and surfaces. The future is now and Djokovic is #1. Nobody cares if Federer was #1 before. What matters is here and now...
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
To win Slams, you need an attacking game. Until Murray learns to stop pushing in the big moments, he will become significant in the Slams. Murray/Nadal first set at Wimbledon was quality stuff. One shot missed and Murray's game collapsed and he went back to pusher mode. That doesn't win Slams.
To win Slams, he needs to play like he did in the 3rd set of the finals of Tokyo. Rip those backhands and forehands. Go for your shots and attack. Not just sticking around on the baseline and playing retriever.
paulorenzo
Hall of Fame
all this talk about wimby '08 nadal.
nadal was untouchable in wimby '09.
nadal was untouchable in wimby '09.
zagor
Bionic Poster
2011 version of Novak would have a chance against any version of Fed that ever played. We're talking about 2 players here playing at a very high level on their favourite surface(HC), peak for peak would I favour Fed at USO? Yes for various reasons but to say 2011 Novak wouldn't have any chance is downright silly.
Yeah, literally.
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
Tell that to your co-Fedfan. They appear to be stuck in the past
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Good post! I completely agree.
aphex
Banned
Nobody cares, bahahaha, and in ten years when both are gone, Fed will still be GOAT, and Djoker will be a footnote in Fed's era.
FedererFan2012
Banned
Nole didn't play tennis before 2011. We know he did. Everybody on the Nole Express, next stop "I hate Federer 'ville". The longer Federer plays and has any kind of success the hate swells on this forum.
paulorenzo
Hall of Fame
westside
Hall of Fame
I don't recall him losing a set in wimby 09. What a man
zagor
Bionic Poster
Eh, what? This response has nothing to do with what I posted.
I was comparing Fed and Novak peak for peak so obviously I'll use Novak's 2011 to compare, that's the only year he played at that level to be in the conversation.
Also I said I'd favour Fed to win, what I disagreed with is the notion that this year's version of Novak would have "no chance" and I certainly stand by that.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
You downplay it. He didn't lose a POINT
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
I doubt that. Nobody is going to forget all about a guy who straight-setted Federer in 2 Slams in Australia and beat him twice in the U.S Open with that. And also beating Federer's greatest rival in Nadal numerous times.
Djokovic is no footnote. People looking back will be seeing the level of competition and they'll know that Djokovic was one of the elite players who held his own during the Federer/Nadal era.
Besides, you're acting like Djokovic's career is over. He's going to be playing for a while yet. More Slams and Masters and weeks at #1 await him. He will be far more than just a footnote when the books on Federer and Nadal are written.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
Very true. Murray has the game to win a slam, but he falls back into his defensive shell/mentality when it matters it seems. If he can overcome that he should win a slam some point soon, perhaps multiple.
As for Djokovic he has a chance to reach Lendl/Connors level of greatness which would make him an all time great (albeit not a GOAT contender) which would be amazing considering how things were looking before this year.
In any case the stupidity of Murrayfan talking about Federer/Nadal with a combined 26 slams as if they are nothing, and Djokovic/Murray with a combined 4 slams as if they are the best thing to ever happen to tennis, is what goes beyond insanity.
First off all 2008 Rafa was not just a better player he was also better fighter.Some people forget What happened 2008 Djoko and the tennis media believe that Djoko will be the next big thing in tennis.Djoko was full of confidence he won 08 AO and then go on to win Indian Wells he arrived clay court season having a chance to become the new No2 since Rafa has to defend all the points Rafa broke his heart that year first on clay court season and then on grass on Queens Final and then in Oliympic semis on hardcourts.Djokos level at that time was very high much higher than 2009 and 2010 thats for sure.In my book Rafa in 08 wouldnt have lost the way he lost against Djokovic Indian wells and Miami those matches showed Rafa doesnt have the same stamina and concentration anymore and to beat 08 Rafa on clay high task for anybody 2011 Djoko or not,so he wouldnt have the mental edge in 2011 Wimbeldon Final.So Nadal wins.
i believe even with all the success last year Nadal never been the same player since 2009 injury.Something gone there both mentally ( he becomes more coward and less crazy on court ) and pysically ( we will never see Rafa played back to back epic matches like 2009 AO because the 2 nd match he is going to suck just like Madrid 2009 and 2010 WTF )
i believe even with all the success last year Nadal never been the same player since 2009 injury.Something gone there both mentally ( he becomes more coward and less crazy on court ) and pysically ( we will never see Rafa played back to back epic matches like 2009 AO because the 2 nd match he is going to suck just like Madrid 2009 and 2010 WTF )
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RF20Lennon
Legend
your obviously a delusional fan a 2011 Djokovic would hammer Nadal no matter what
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
No. Because 2008 Nadal would have lost even worse in IW and Miami. In 2008 Nadal DID lose to Djokovic in IW by the scorline 6-3 6-2. And in Cinci that year he lost to Djokovic 6-1 7-5. And that was against 2008 Djokovic, nevermind 2011 Djokovic. So Nadal of 2008 would probably get destroyed since at this time he was worse on hardcourt than he is now, and got straight setted by Djokovic more often than not. In 2008 he was an average HC player who had never made it past the semis of either HC slam. I see what you say about stamina, but in 2008 he didn't have the game on hardcourt and not the belief either.
On the matter of grass I don't really know, Novak was very competitive at Wimbledon 2007 and Queens 2008 so who knows.
you totally missunderstood the post Nadal won the 1 set in both Indian wells and Miami final and then he couldnt keep it up,he was the more tired player during that matches at the end of matches. he was out pysiced rather than out played.For me those matches were even more strange defeats than Rome and Madrid. He also won the biggest match that year on hard court in Oliyimpic semi with tears on Djokos eyes.Rafa losing big matches when he won 1 set is a very diffucult thing before yet we watched the repeat of Indian wells final even much worse than it In Tokyo final against Murray.
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Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Well he won the 1st set because he's a better HC player now than in 2008. If you mean wouldn't he have lost from that posisition in 2008, maybe not, I can see you point. But he wouldn't have been up a set agaisnt 2011 Djokovic because he had enough trouble with 2008 Djokovic.
He did win the Olympic semi but still lost 2 out of 3 HC matches that year,. In the Olympics Djokovic won more games but was very nervous playing for his country and that's what hurt him. He hasn't been nervous this year and has defeated Nadal at the biggest stages. I agree Nadal looks like he's lost the fight in the long matches, but back in 2008 while he had better stamina his HC game was simply not as good and Djokovic generally had a much easier time against him than he did in IW and Miami this year.
Whatever, it doesn't really effect the matchup on grass, but I was just saying Nadal is actually a bigger contender on HC now than in 2008. I get that you might just be using the IW and Miami matches as examples and not suggesting that 2008 Nadal would have beaten Djokovic there this year but that he simply had better stamina and mental strength in situations like these.
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NadalAgassi
Guest
I dont think Nadal is at his all time best now, but I dont think he is nearly as far off as some think either. I would say 2011 is his 3rd best year of tennis ever (except for clay where it is more like his 6th best) behind 2008 and 2010 (2009 was better until his mid season injury). That said I still believe the 2008 or 2010 Nadal would beat 2011 Djokovic on grass, and most past versions of Nadal would beat the 2011 Djokovic on clay. No versions of Nadal would beat 2011 Djokovic on hard courts, well not the majority of the time anyway, or Djokovics January-September 2011 form translated indoors albeit we might not see that.
Who knows Djokovic might get even better than this year, although I personally doubt that. Funny thing is he could end up winning the Grand Slam even if his level doesnt improve. He could have easily done it this year as it was.
Who knows Djokovic might get even better than this year, although I personally doubt that. Funny thing is he could end up winning the Grand Slam even if his level doesnt improve. He could have easily done it this year as it was.
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