Nadal about the tax issue

Crisstti

Legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIkPNf08qLY

The journalist asks him about the tax issue, that it’s been said that he’s paid very little taxes.

Rafa: Well, first of all, as you can imagine, I haven’t controlled these issues all of these years. I’ve been playing tennis and there’s a team who takes care of these things, no?.
Due to what’s been on the news on these last few weeks, naturally I’ve been worried and I’ve informed myself of how the whole situation is. And the real situation is very far from what’s been on the news.

Q: (Asks again if it’s true that he’s paid very little taxes, that especially considering the situation in Spain. If what’s been reported is true whether he knew it or not).

Rafa: Look, I started to play tennis when I was very little, Back then from what I understand assessors came along and to offer the opportunity to go live outside of Spain, with a completely different tax system, it was decided we would stay here in Spain… but well, we have relationships with people from San Sebastian (the place where the companies were located, I guess), since many, many years, in a personal level as in an business level. Through them we were offered the possibility of locating the companies in (a place which name I don’t quite understand). In theory there were tax advantages, always in a legal way…

Journalists says that it is indeed legal.

Rafa: Badly advised, the societies were located there. The (tax) advantages have not been such, and last year the societies were moved to Mallorca. I understand Spain is going through a very complicated moment, I understand that these things that have come out about me might upset many people who are having a hard time, because the same would have been the case with me, if I had been one of these people who are having a hard time and I had seen someone like me and hears this about him, that he makes a lot of money and pays very little, well, evidently Id think it-s wrong. But that has not been the case.

Q: (around 6:30) It has been published you pay very little taxes, to close the issue, that you’ve only paid some thousands Euros in taxes, is this so?.

Rafa: The thing is that the information that’s been published is very far from the reality. We published a statement, I thought it had clarified things, I can see that’s not the case, but first, it’s a personal issue and I find it hard to talk about it because I’ve never done it but, it’s going to be the only time I’m going to and not again, because with the moments we’re going through (Spain) I don’t think it’s good either to say how much I’ve paid or I’ve made. But one has to understand that I, Rafael Nadal, have always had my tax residence in Mallorca, so I’ve always paid taxes in Spain. Then, the societies have indeed been for several years in (that place in Spain) that in theory offered some benefits that haven’t been so. My biggest earnings are from outside from Spain, as much in a personal level as with these societies, get their biggest earnings from outside from Spain, so the earnings, first of all, you pay taxes in the place of origin (of the earnings), always, and then you pay taxes in Spain. And that’s the way it’s been… and it’s very hard for me to say it, but these societies, in the years they’ve been there, have paid more than 20 million Euros. And I, on a personal level, have paid a very similar amount. In the end, it’s many million Euros that I’ve paid…

Q: (around 8:23) It’s not been the thousands Euros that’ve been mentioned…

Rafa: It’s been many millions that I’ve paid to this country. That's what I have to do as a citizen, but the thing is I have done it. And it hurts me a lot that someone like me gets involved in this kind of thing, and plus, the moment Spain is going through, I understand things are very sensitive, and the situation hurts me deeply because I have friends, close family members who are having a hard time…

Then they start to just talk about Spain’s economical situation.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Yes, paying a lot of money to tax advisors to minimise tax only really works when its a sure thing - like leaving Spain.

He seems remarkably upfront and genuinely patriotic, especially important given Spain's contemporary troubles.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
These are companies that resided in areas with tax advantages, but they needed to be genuinely resident in these areas and his were declared not to be.
 
Rafa:but well, we have relationships with people from San Sebastian (the place where the companies were located, I guess), since many, many years, in a personal level as in an business level. Through them we were offered the possibility of locating the companies in (a place which name I don’t quite understand). In theory there were tax advantages, always in a legal way…

LOL, the the multi millionaire admits to seeking out tax advantages DESPITE making millions. Maybe it was legal, but WHY does a guy who makes millions need tax advantages????? Unbelievable how greedy people can be.

Relationships??? sounds suspicious
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Tax codes usually invite you to take tax advantages, which this one did, but you have to do so legitimately and his were declared not to be so.
 

Crisstti

Legend
What are these "societies" he talks about?

It's probably my translation... maybe I should have used "companies".

LOL, the the multi millionaire admits to seeking out tax advantages DESPITE making millions. Maybe it was legal, but WHY does a guy who makes millions need tax advantages????? Unbelievable how greedy people can be.

Relationships??? sounds suspicious

You seem like a rather smart guy, despite your trolling and your silly bias, so I suggest you read it again.
 
It's probably my translation... maybe I should have used "companies".



You seem like a rather smart guy, despite your trolling and your silly bias, so I suggest you read it again.

Hey as I said he may have not done anything technically illegal. My point is, why even have any relationship with San Sebatien companies at all? For what? Maybe in the end he paid millions in taxes, maybe he paid his fair share even! But I'm not talking about that - I'm talking about what he said in the beginning. WHY look for tax advantages? Millions are not enough for your life?
 

Crisstti

Legend
Hey as I said he may have not done anything technically illegal. My point is, why even have any relationship with San Sebatien companies at all? For what? Maybe in the end he paid millions in taxes, maybe he paid his fair share even! But I'm not talking about that - I'm talking about what he said in the beginning. WHY look for tax advantages? Millions are not enough for your life?

He didn't say HE looked for tax advantages, he isn't the one to handle his money. His father run those companies, from what I understand. Maybe he didn't stress that enough, I would get he wouldn't much want to throw his own father and friends of the family under the bus...
 

volleygirl

Rookie
LOL, the the multi millionaire admits to seeking out tax advantages DESPITE making millions. Maybe it was legal, but WHY does a guy who makes millions need tax advantages????? Unbelievable how greedy people can be.

Relationships??? sounds suspicious



Greedy? Hes the one who earned the money, not the crooks in the govt. The govts continually blow money and then want the people to just willingly pay more. I dont see anything wrong with him having his tax people find these tax exemptions if they are legal.
 
Greedy? Hes the one who earned the money, not the crooks in the govt. The govts continually blow money and then want the people to just willingly pay more. I dont see anything wrong with him having his tax people find these tax exemptions if they are legal.

Your response depicts the problem with humanity today.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Tax advantages are built into codes by government and you can legitimately use them.

Using them usually performs a useful social function in return for a tax benefit.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
LOL, the the multi millionaire admits to seeking out tax advantages DESPITE making millions. Maybe it was legal, but WHY does a guy who makes millions need tax advantages????? Unbelievable how greedy people can be.

Relationships??? sounds suspicious
I believe Djokovic has your answer
 
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Crisstti

Legend
LOL, the the multi millionaire admits to seeking out tax advantages DESPITE making millions. Maybe it was legal, but WHY does a guy who makes millions need tax advantages????? Unbelievable how greedy people can be.

Relationships??? sounds suspicious

Suspicious how?. Does "relationships" in English refer only to romantic relationships?. Remember it's a translation. He meant they were more or less close to people from there.
 

jokinla

Hall of Fame
"close family members who are having a hard time", how can that be, if I was in his position, NONE of my family members would have a hard time, much less "close family members", how ridiculous.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
"close family members who are having a hard time", how can that be, if I was in his position, NONE of my family members would have a hard time, much less "close family members", how ridiculous.
Not everyone wants to become charities. They could be unemployed relatives who want to have nothing to do with Rafa's money, or have received Rafa's money but want to live off their own earnings.
 

jokinla

Hall of Fame
Not everyone wants to become charities. They could be unemployed relatives who want to have nothing to do with Rafa's money, or have received Rafa's money but want to live off their own earnings.

Well certainly we all have pride, and to what degree they are struggling is relative, however, if the house is on the chopping block, you have to swallow your pride and be thankful you are in the Nadal family.
 
He didn't say HE looked for tax advantages, he isn't the one to handle his money. His father run those companies, from what I understand. Maybe he didn't stress that enough, I would get he wouldn't much want to throw his own father and friends of the family under the bus...

Sorry, but I don't believe for one second that Nadal was not aware of the tax advantages even if someone else handles the money. Just think about it, he's a mega millionaire and he's looking for tax ADVANTAGES. Shouldn't the rich volunteer to pay even more taxes, especially those who play a game for their job?
 
Suspicious how?. Does "relationships" in English refer only to romantic relationships?. Remember it's a translation. He meant they were more or less close to people from there.

I just think that part of the answer to the question was very vague and glossed over. He doesn't need any relationship to any company. He's supposed to be a humble country boy remember? Sheepish even. He makes millions! Put it in the bank. Pay your taxes. And you still have millions left over.
 

kragster

Hall of Fame
For once I agree with DFTW. I'm sure Fed and djokovic also have a team of accountants who figure out loopholes, but yes it is sad that in reality some of the richest people have some of the lowest tax rates.

I believe the company GE had an effective tax rate of less than 10% in 2011!

You can argue that richer people shouldn't pay more but then indirectly you think of it, richer people benefit more than the poor from the taxes that the government collects.

For example, if there were crappy roads, perhaps the attendance at the US open would be half of what it is. If ticket sales were half, prize money would be half as well. So the building of good roads benefits a rich sportsperson more than the poor attendee.

People talk about government intrusion into private affairs, the millions of workers working at factories probably came through the public schools system. If corporations are willing to unite to create their own quasi education system for these millions of kids growing up, I'm all for it. But until then we need a common pool of wealth for roads and bridges and schools and that can only come from govt taxes. And those who benefit the most from this pool should pay the most as well.
 
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Greedy? Hes the one who earned the money, not the crooks in the govt. The govts continually blow money and then want the people to just willingly pay more. I dont see anything wrong with him having his tax people find these tax exemptions if they are legal.

I don't know about you bit the reason I work 70 to 80 hours per week is to give money to the government so that they can **** it away by sponsering cowboy poetry and midnight basketball. Not to mention giving half a billion away to solar manufacturing companies that declare bankruptcy 6 months later.

Governments are good at writing checks from your money but I suspect the person who actually earns the money is going to spend it more wisely.
If I was a high earner like Nadal, I'd move to Monaco.
 
For once I agree with DFTW. I'm sure Fed and djokovic also have a team of accountants who figure out loopholes, but yes it is sad that in reality some of the richest people have some of the lowest tax rates.

I believe the company GE had an effective tax rate of less than 10% in 2011!

You can argue that richer people shouldn't pay more but then indirectly you think of it, richer people benefit more than the poor from the taxes that the government collects.

For example, if there were crappy roads, perhaps the attendance at the US open would be half of what it is. If ticket sales were half, prize money would be half as well. So the building of good roads benefits a rich sportsperson more than the poor attendee.

People talk about government intrusion into private affairs, the millions of workers working at factories probably came through the public schools system. If corporations are willing to unite to create their own quasi education system for these millions of kids growing up, I'm all for it. But until then we need a common pool of wealth for roads and bridges and schools and that can only come from govt taxes. And those who benefit the most from this pool should pay the most as well.

Just remember that in the US, the top 50% of earners actually pay 98% of the money that goes to the federal treasury in the form of income taxes. So the top are paying more than their share.

Corporations take advantage of the tax code because the money they earn actually gets taxed twice: once for corporate taxes and a second time when that profit is distributed to shareholders and employees. On April 1st 2012, the US will have the highest rate of corporate taxes in the developed world--even so called socialist countries of western europe will have a lower corporate tax rate.
 

kragster

Hall of Fame
Just remember that in the US, the top 50% of earners actually pay 98% of the money that goes to the federal treasury in the form of income taxes. So the top are paying more than their share.

Corporations take advantage of the tax code because the money they earn actually gets taxed twice: once for corporate taxes and a second time when that profit is distributed to shareholders and employees. On April 1st 2012, the US will have the highest rate of corporate taxes in the developed world--even so called socialist countries of western europe will have a lower corporate tax rate.

I don't think that's true. I've seen many articles claiming that the US tax rates are relatively low for a developed country.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_...-tax-rates-are-among-the-lowest-in-the-world/
 
The big thing is that we have a lot of "outs" ways that very large companies can hide their money and avoid paying all those taxes.

They don't actually have to hide the money, they just keep it in a country that has low corporate tax rates. There are billions of dollars that US companies keep overseas that could be used in this country to hire people and expand their business but they don't want to just fork over 40% of it as soon as they bring it here. No sane person or company is going to do that.
 

sundaypunch

Hall of Fame
LOL, the the multi millionaire admits to seeking out tax advantages DESPITE making millions. Maybe it was legal, but WHY does a guy who makes millions need tax advantages????? Unbelievable how greedy people can be.

Relationships??? sounds suspicious


I'm no Nadal fan but this is incredibly naive. Anyone, rich or poor, would be foolish to pay more than required. It's not a matter of greed, it a matter of not being stupid.
 

vernonbc

Legend
Tax codes usually invite you to take tax advantages, which this one did, but you have to do so legitimately and his were declared not to be so.
You're absolutely right about tax codes but I take exception to your calling it not 'legitimate', meaning lawful or legal. Rafa did absolutely nothing unlawful or illegal. He has paid millions of euros in taxes.

LOL, the the multi millionaire admits to seeking out tax advantages DESPITE making millions. Maybe it was legal, but WHY does a guy who makes millions need tax advantages????? Unbelievable how greedy people can be.
When you grow up and get a job, maybe then you'll understand about paying taxes.

I'm no Nadal fan but this is incredibly naive. Anyone, rich or poor, would be foolish to pay more than required. It's not a matter of greed, it a matter of not being stupid.
Exactly.
 

Crisstti

Legend
Sorry, but I don't believe for one second that Nadal was not aware of the tax advantages even if someone else handles the money. Just think about it, he's a mega millionaire and he's looking for tax ADVANTAGES. Shouldn't the rich volunteer to pay even more taxes, especially those who play a game for their job?

If he doesn't handle the money, why would he even know where the companies were located?.

I just think that part of the answer to the question was very vague and glossed over. He doesn't need any relationship to any company. He's supposed to be a humble country boy remember? Sheepish even. He makes millions! Put it in the bank. Pay your taxes. And you still have millions left over.

He has paid his taxed. Did you even read the interview?.
 
M

monfed

Guest
Sorry, but I don't believe for one second that Nadal was not aware of the tax advantages even if someone else handles the money. Just think about it, he's a mega millionaire and he's looking for tax ADVANTAGES. Shouldn't the rich volunteer to pay even more taxes, especially those who play a game for their job?

Exactly. Reminds me of an incident when a cricketer called Sachin Tendulkar wanted taxes evaded by the Indian govt for his Ferrari which was gifted by Michael Schumacher. It was his lowest point,characterwise imo and I'm a big fan of Sachin btw.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Sorry, but I don't believe for one second that Nadal was not aware of the tax advantages even if someone else handles the money. Just think about it, he's a mega millionaire and he's looking for tax ADVANTAGES. Shouldn't the rich volunteer to pay even more taxes, especially those who play a game for their job?

This is a false statement and tells me you have no idea about what goes on in the real world of business. The richer somebody is, the more tax advantages they look for. Why? Because they have better resources--i.e. tax advisers, lawyers, etc. Why on earth should a wealthy person volunteer to pay more taxes or not try and save themselves some money. Why should they pi$$ more money away to the government than they have to? If you had any money you would understand this basic fact.
 

Spin Doctor

Professional
Exactly. Reminds me of an incident when a cricketer called Sachin Tendulkar wanted taxes evaded by the Indian govt for his Ferrari which was gifted by Michael Schumacher. It was his lowest point,characterwise imo and I'm a big fan of Sachin btw.

I was curious about your post since I find it strange that someone would be taxed on a gift and also that you would consider it a "low point" to avoid taxes on a gift. Turns out it was customs tax he was trying to avoid:

The finance ministry exempted Tendulkar from paying around Rs 1.13 crore [approximately US $245,000] towards the import duty of the red Ferrari, valued at Rs 75 lakh [approximately US $162,600], earlier this week.

Customs tax of $245,000 on a vehicle worth $162,600?!? How can you blame him for not wanting to pay that? Its excessive to the point of being absurd. I would dispute that just on principle even if I could pay the tax.
 

Crisstti

Legend
Why was he looking for a tax advantage? Please don't tell me he didn't know about it. That's BS.

He wasn't. People who handle the money were.

It's actually not hard to believe he didn't know about it...

Anyway, we're going in circles here. I'm not going to continue repeating myself...
 
M

monfed

Guest
This is a false statement and tells me you have no idea about what goes on in the real world of business. The richer somebody is, the more tax advantages they look for. Why? Because they have better resources--i.e. tax advisers, lawyers, etc. Why on earth should a wealthy person volunteer to pay more taxes or not try and save themselves some money. Why should they pi$$ more money away to the government than they have to? If you had any money you would understand this basic fact.

LOL

You talk as if poor people don't look for tax benefits. Fact is everyone looks for them,rich or poor, but looking at the moral side of it realise that rich people like Ralph shouldn't be looking out for tax benefits because it doesn't hurt them to cough up tax as much as it would hurt a poor man, relatively speaking.
 
M

monfed

Guest
I was curious about your post since I find it strange that someone would be taxed on a gift and also that you would consider it a "low point" to avoid taxes on a gift. Turns out it was customs tax he was trying to avoid:



Customs tax of $245,000 on a vehicle worth $162,600?!? How can you blame him for not wanting to pay that? Its excessive to the point of being absurd. I would dispute that just on principle even if I could pay the tax.

So,we're gonna have a debate on what kind of tax is liable for payment? If he found it unreasonable to pay the requisite tax, he could've just turned down the offer instead of selfishly using his image and power to influence the govt to slash tax. A non-celebrity would have had no such favours from the govt.
 

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
LOL

You talk as if poor people don't look for tax benefits. Fact is everyone looks for them,rich or poor, but looking at the moral side of it realise that rich people like Ralph shouldn't be looking out for tax benefits because it doesn't hurt them to cough up tax as much as it would hurt a poor man, relatively speaking.

I did not say poor people don't look for tax benefits, I said richer people have more resources at their disposal and are probably a little bit more educated about these things and if they are not educated about them themselves, they can hire people who are educated on the matter.

I totally disagree with you about Nadal when you say he should not be looking for tax benefits, of course he should! Why should wealthy individuals pi$$ away money for no reason to the government? We obviously have different "politics" on this issue. I think anybody who is taxed 40-50% or more on their income would clearly understand the need to look for legal tax breaks.
 
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