Nadal admits it was a mistake to wash dirty linen in public..
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nikdom
Guest
So let me understand Nadal's motivation here for a second.....this is like Caroline Wozniacki saying she'll need to keep playing a lot of tournaments to keep her ranking because she is not good enough to win a slam. So the tour has to change (shorten, more clay court events) so Nadal can have a long career?
If injuries across the board are a problem, then the more obvious culprit would be the rally length and difficulty of winning cheap points. Why is Nadal not fighting for faster surfaces and quicker balls? Oh wait, cos then again he won't be able to retain no.1
......and Roger is the selfish one!
Other players have said the same thing. Djokovic, Roddick, the Bryans^ said there are things that need to be changed. Maybe they weren't as vocal as Rafa, but that's irrelevant.
I hope someone (Federer perhaps) brings this to the table as an alternative to shorter season. I'm sure most of the HC players would jump on that bandwagon. And that would serve to expose Nadal's agenda.
N
nikdom
Guest
Nadal or not, it would be good for the sport to have truly different playing characteristics from different surfaces.
Crisstti
Legend
I was just agreeing about what it was Nadal had basically said.
Well, I don't know Towser, maybe it was different before, but from what I have seen here since I've been posting here, the bashing of Nadal is way bigger than that of Federer. Plus I don't think it's the same to criticize Fed because of what he said about Murray a couple months back, than for example the pages of posters bashing Rafa when he said his shoulder was fine... I don't see something like that happening with Fed.
But it was a dig at Nadal. What difference does it make that he said he wasn't naming anyone in particular, when he was obviously talking about Nadal?. I really don't see how him not naming Nadal makes any difference.
Rafa focused on Federer specifically because that was the question they asked him. The journalist said Federer had said that players hurt tennis when they criticized the tour publicily, like Murray, Djokovic (then Rafa says "like me"), if he agreed with that.
I'm afraid I'd had to paraphrase here, since the interview doesn't appear to be on YouTube, despite the fact that they showed it on ESPN before Rafa's match yesterday
.Anyway, Rafa was obviously upset at Federer's comments. He went further than he had to, I agree, but I think it's OK since he doesn't have why to just shut up when Roger had said what he said.
Probably why he said he said too much "as usual".
I don't think he is above making snarky comments. I think he did about Federer a couple days ago, and there's what he said about Soderling. I do think it takes a lot for him to make those comments, in that he has to be really upset. And I think he was justified to be angry at what Roger had said.
Roger does seem to more easily make snide comments about some other players. It doesn't mean he's not a nice guy. I like him despite that... after all, I love John Lennon, and God knows he was good at making snide comments about others (including about who is my favourite beatle, lol, but I digress).
Some get posted here with pretty good translations
.Anyway, I just don't agree with you saying he somehow hides behind his poor English to not comment on certain things. Why would he want to do that, and then speak in Spanish?. I would say he actually talks quite a lot in English despite his skills in that language not being very good.
Crisstti
Legend
"Nadal's agenda"?. Aren't you being a bit paranoid?.
Anyway, maybe some compromise, mix - between using some more grass courts (fast or not), faster surfaces or some kind of softer hc for some tournaments and shortening and/or re-arranging the season somewhat - can be reached.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Oh yeah Nadal does get pages dedicated to bashing him but it's usually about injuries, with Federer it's more about any comments he makes and sometimes it's taken out of context and sometimes he is being snarky. All players are like this though, but Federer has a reptation for it so he gets it much worse in this one aspect. Nadal has a rep for saying he's injured so I admit he sometimes gets it much worse in this respect.
He said he wasn't talking about any specific player. Now if Rafa is right about this "supermajority" why is Federer obviously talking about Nadal? Apparently many players back Nadal, so sorry you can't say Federer was talking about Nadal. If he was definitely talking about him, then it must be because he is the only one talking about these things.
Rafa focused on Federer specifically because that was the question they asked him. The journalist said Federer had said that players hurt tennis when they criticized the tour publicily, like Murray, Djokovic (then Rafa says "like me"), if he agreed with that.
I'm afraid I'd had to paraphrase here, since the interview doesn't appear to be on YouTube, despite the fact that they showed it on ESPN before Rafa's match yesterday
Anyway, Rafa was obviously upset at Federer's comments. He went further than he had to, I agree, but I think it's OK since he doesn't have why to just shut up when Roger had said what he said. Probably why he said he said too much "as usual".
You see even when you admit it was a snarky comment, you claim it's ok for him to do so. Federer never said anything about Nadal personally. In truth Nadal just got a bit annoyed and spoke more angrily then he should have. What did Federer actually say? That players sometimes hurt the game themselves. He didn't say there was any bad intent from any one player to hurt the game but sometimes these things happen, which might be the case for the lower ranked guys if the tour gets messed with too much. You know the ones who choose to play close to 30 tournaments a year.
True he does more easily, but what I'm saying is I think he's just more ready to say whatever he thinks, and Nadal is a bit more cautious. I didn't say you personally disliked Federer, but a lot of Nadal fans do because they percieve him to be not very nice and Nadal is a perfect gentleman, the truth is everyone is capable of being tetchy and bad tempered at times.
Some get posted here with pretty good translations
Again you would know better than me!
Last thing I want is to judge someone by a translation that does not properly convey their meaning.Well I don't exactly mean it in a bad way, I don't blame him to some extent, but press love goading people into making a controversial comment. Someone like Federer speaks fluent English as well as german and French. nadal obviously speaks fluent Spanish and Italian and maybe some others but he can sort of avoid certain issues with English press because they can't press him too much on it. Maybe he gets more of a grilling by spanish press but I get the feeling the English press are some of the worst (no offence to anyone) I don't really blame him if he did use a slight language barrier to avoid some grilling from the press.
No. It's there for all to see -- calling for more clay-court tournaments at the expense of HC ones, 2 yr ranking system, etc. If these don't scream "self-serving", then I don't know what will.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
I really hope there is some compromise but I don't bank on it. This is the thing I feel Federer should be doing more to impliment because all tournaments are getting slower and it will kill players who have to struggle to hit a winner.
Thing is there will sadly never be an increase in grass courts, so less HC means more clay. On this one, I doubt nadal will find many players to agree with him.
namelessone
Legend
He isn't. He can speak a few words that sound similar in his native language but fluent? No freaking way.
Mustard
Bionic Poster
Thought not. As far as I know, Nadal is fluent in 2 languages (Mallorquin Catalan and Castillian Spanish).
Crisstti
Legend
He was talking about Nadal because Rafa has been the player to talk openly the most about changes in the ATP. It doesn't really matter when it comes to this how many players support Nadal, but how many have spoken about it publicly.
Fed cannot have been talking about players who speak publicly about this and somehow not have been talking about Rafa.
It's OK (understandable) because he was answering to Roger's comment... to say that players who publicly criticize the tour are hurting the game is a pretty harsh thing to say, I think.
Think of it from Rafa's perspective. He probably already felt Roger should be supporting these complaints, and felt upset that he is the one taking the heat from the press (and the bad image consequences, since not few people get upset to see millionaire people complain about something). He had already said before he was tired of being the one to speak out. And then they tell him that Federer said him and others were hurting tennis by speaking publicly about these things...
Oh, I agree the English press seems to be the worst.
Lots of Latin American players would agree, as would lots of European players.
Why couldn't there be more grass tournaments though?.
It does seem also that is possible to have hard courts that are softer (but not slower).
Several people have said here he does. I have no idea since I don't speak any Italian, but posters here have said he speaks it...
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Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Nadal should fight for higher pay amongst players. All the other stuff like decreased hardcourt tournaments, 2 year ranking, decreased mandatory tournies is pointless. He should only play the 4 Slams and the mandatory Masters. He should skip Barcelona, Shanghai, Dubai and all of the 250 tournies.
Sid_Vicious
G.O.A.T.
Down with all who are in close proximity of Ronald?
Crisstti
Legend
Nadal should fight for higher pay amongst players. All the other stuff like decreased hardcourt tournaments, 2 year ranking, decreased mandatory tournies is pointless. He should only play the 4 Slams and the mandatory Masters. He should skip Barcelona, Shanghai, Dubai and all of the 250 tournies.
Apparently he is.
There are many mandatory 500 and 250 tournaments as well. Plus, it would hurt his ranking to play less than other players.
Crisstti
Legend
Interesting. So there's another 2 players who agree with Nadal... (about the need for some changes, not about his comments about Fed
).They clearly agree about shortening the season, though not sure what they're after all saying about the two year ranking.
They talk about needing time to work on weaknesses, which is also something Rafa talked about, in that interview in The Guardian (I believe) about the Olympic Games...
Are Federer and Nadal supposed to represent some particular group in that, anyone knows?. The commentators on ESPN said that Fed represents the top 10 players... but I'm not sure that can be the case, with him being the president.
sdont
Legend
Come on, Nadal is not the only one to have publicly criticized the calendar. Even Fed himself has been talking publicly about the DC schedule. Note btw the way that Fed used 'we', he does not exclude anyone.
So you admit that talking publicly about such problems to the press gives a bad image to the players and the sport. You're basically agreeing with Fed!
sdont
Legend
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2010/06/Other/ATP-Player-Council.aspx
Along with Federer and Nadal, the following individuals comprise the 2010-2012 ATP Player Council:
1-50 singles ranking: Roger Federer, Fernando Gonzalez, Rafael Nadal, Sam Querrey
51-100 singles ranking: Peter Luczak, Jarkko Nieminen
1-100 doubles ranking: Eric Butorac, Nenad Zimonjic
At-large: Yves Allegro, Ashley Fisher
Coach: Claudio Pistolesi
Alumni: Ignacio Hirigoyen
Crisstti
Legend
Thanks.
Not sure I understand though.
So no one represents the players ranked lower than 100?.
Does "at large" mean those two represent ALL of the players?.
"Coach", "alumni"?.
If Federer does represent the players ranked 1-50, then it's understandable those players would expect him to look a little more for their interests...
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
sorry i meant fluent in spanish and can speak italian
Crisstti
Legend
He is the one who's done it the most. Federer is either trying to be diplomatic or trying to look good by using "we".
It would be interesting to see the actual question that Roger answered when he said that, but I guess we won't. It is in the original article right after he talks about having had a meeting with Rafa about the ATP issues.
Um, no, I didn't say that. I think it doesn't help the image of the player speaking out. I don't think it gives the sport a bad image... except maybe in the eyes of some people. I'm really not one to think that image should ever be much of a concern anyway.
sdont
Legend
So, basically, it's just your biased opinion that Fed is taking a shot at Nadal. Not supported by any fact. At least that much is clear.
So if all the players speak out, we agree that it would give all the players a bad image (of course in the eyes of some people, not people who follow tennis). But somehow it wouldn't give the sport a bad image?
Crisstti
Legend
No. Fed has hardly spoken out about these issues. Rafa is the one who's done it most. And yet Fed isn't referring to him?. His intention is actually pretty clear.
No, I don't think it would, except maybe for some people. I don't think it matters either.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Noothing false about it, unfortunately, but I yearn for the simple life, however, where love of country and Federer's purity flow like a spring stream.
sdont
Legend
Fed is not refering to Nadal specifically. "Pretty clear" applies to what Nadal has said about Fed.
So it would, to some people.
I guess we could go on and on like this forever. Let's agree to disagree.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Murray has talked about it too and we know he gets on with him much less well than Rafa. There have been complaints about things from others like Djokovic and Roddick too, and maybe the general feeling was building up behind the scenes. Plus I'm not sure whether Federer meant complaining to the media was hurting the game or some suggestions like a 2 year calendar.
I don't blame him for saying it because he is human, but I don't think it was the right way to say it, and touched on things that were less to do with the point like claiming Federer was physically blessed when it's really a combination of the way he decided to play the game and his training/calendar.
Well yes and no. I mean lots of lower ranked guys would agree, but not the top guys (who we've been talking about when mentioning the calls for calendar shortening and 2 year rankings). The top guys know that any clay tournament is probabaly Nadal's unless Djokovic continues his upper hand on clay over nadal, in which case it's Djokovic's or Nadal's. since 2005 nadal has cleaned up on clay and any crumbs have gone to Federer or Djokovic. When all 3 have been in the draw, I doubt anyone else has won a clay title since 2005 (maybe someone can check?) So most top guys will not want more clay, not Djokovic, Murray or any of the top ten except maybe Ferrer but even he knows he has a better chance against nadal on hard than clay.
Lower ranked south americans and europeans would maybe because they would play the lesser events that the top guys don't enter. BUT - if you've shortened the calendar there will be less of these events and less events also means a greater percentage of events contain the top guys, which means less of the 500s and 250s for these clay courters to pick up.
But if all of a sudden we're listening to the lower ranked guys, many of them might not want the 2 year ranking or the calender shorter (some already play 30 events a year), so are we talking about what the top players want or what the lower ones want? Let's be consistant or find a balance (which is why Federer and Nadal both have valid points). I would guess top 20 want shorter calendar, 2 year ranking, but no drop in hardcourt. Lower ranked want no shortened calendar or 2 year ranking but maybe the clay courters amongst them want more clay events.
Grass would be great but I think it takes too much upkeep, can only be used at certain times of the year probably, and finding time in the schedule as well. I don't think it's all about too much hardcourt.Make some play faster so the rallies aren't always so tough. Hardcourts have been dominant for a long time, someone like Agassi played til he was in his mid 30s and he was still at a high level. It didn't kill his body and he was a baseliner. He was also playing 5 set masters finals. But other things have changed in the game, surfaces have slowed, players have got better at grinding and changes do need to be made, but it requires great thought - not every change is for the better.
I would like there to be no mandatory master 2 weeks before the WTF. Either move it or make one of Paris and Shanghai non mandatory, or make it soplayers can choose which one is non mandatory so thay can play their "skip" when they choose to.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
The 'C' in OCD does stand for Compulsive, no?
I hope they meet in the SF - want to see Fed walk over after warm-up and kick over Rafa's water bottles and laugh like a rabid hyena...
I hope they meet in the SF - want to see Fed walk over after warm-up and kick over Rafa's water bottles and laugh like a rabid hyena...
Crisstti
Legend
I guess we could go on forever
.But look, I never take the position to look at something anyone says in a negative light, unless it's clear. A few posters have called me naive and other things because of this. But what roger said here does seem to me very clearly to be referring to Rafa (even if not only to him).
Rafa clearly thinks he was referring to him as well.
I'm not saying he was referring just to Rafa. But he had to be included there.
Fed referred to players who were "negative" about the sport. Didn't specify any specific complaint...
I don't think it's bad for Rafa to have said what he said, because I think it's good Roger knows that his comments will probably get an answer...
Maybe they had talked about this when they had had those meetings about ATP issues - I mean Rafa might well have known what Fed thought about complaining in public, and Fed that Rafa thought Roger was too worried about his image and was being little sympathetic to the kind of problems he has - and it just went public now...
About Rafa having said Federer is physically blessed, first, when they showed the interview and from what I've read in Spanish, it seems what he said was that Fed was more talented and hence needed to push his body less, since he could play more effortlessly. I don't think he actually said Fed was physically blessed. Though I do think that some players are just more or less injury prone independently of anything they do or don't do. At least in football is common to see certain players getting injured constantly, and no one ever talks about that being related to anything like their play style.
But wouldn't players who are better on clay than hard courts still agree, since they would still probably be able to go deeper in the tournaments and collect more points, even if they don't win them?.
Instead of eliminating event to shorten the calendar, maybe they could simply put some at the same time (it's already done, after all). It would mean more chances to lower-ranked players too.
I think it would be fair to have some more clay events, independently of Nadal, because after all players who grow up playing on clay are perjudiced by the surface distribution and it doesn't seem quite fair. I mean, for example, I remember there was talk here when Marcelo Ríos was around (not sure if it was him saying it) about the fact taht the tournaments towards the end of the year were on hc, perjudicing clay court players for the year end rankings.
About the calendar, some redistribution of money prices and getting the slams to pay more money to the players (and even putting some more tournaments at the same time so they have more chances to advance deeper/win them) should make up, I think, for the money lost by shortening the calendar.
Anyway, players need to reach some agreement between them so they can push for it... hope they manage to.
Agree. And these things need to be thought over and a compromise is necessary, because the problems can be handled in more than one way and some players are favoured by a certain way to deal with it and others are perjudiced. So it shouldn't go completely just one way, I think.
Yep, sounds like a good idea. Guess the tournaments must be against it because it would mean they would have to come to offer money to the best players to go to their tournies.
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
SLD76
G.O.A.T.
hmm, I expect selective quotation now.
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Crisstti
Legend
I don't know what Djokovic has said, but Federer didn't simply say "I think it's better if we keep these things behind closed doors".
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Nadal was expressing his disgust at Fed's passivity, and that was the issue that should not have been aired in public.
The real issues need to be aired because Fed's diplomatic approach has achieved little.
The real issues need to be aired because Fed's diplomatic approach has achieved little.
Jay_The_Nomad
Professional
Agreed!! +1000
And I will also like to see Nadal proceed to make Federer cry again.
Here is what happened in the rift thread that got deleted.
Towser83 said (paraphrasing) "I tried warming up to rafa, but he makes it very difficult for me because /*insert a list of rafa traits he dislikes */ ".
After several other posts of Rafa bashing by several people, I responded to one such post. I said "I LOL every time i hear someone say that they are trying to "warm up to or like Rafa" because /*insert my reasoning here */ ".
My response was not addressed to towser83 nor did i mention his moniker.
Yet, towser83 rightly inferred that I meant him among several others and took it upon himself to respond to my post clarifying his stance.
So I am finding it very funny now that Towser83 is still going on and on saying that Fed is not referring to Rafa or Fed did not particularly mean Rafa, hence Rafa should not take umbrage. Double standards much?
It is clear as mud Fed was referring to Rafa among a few others, the guy who made a big deal at the USO rain fiasco, the guy who keeps complaining in public about the schedule, slamming the ITF etc. How does it matter whether he called out Rafa particularly or with a few others. Absolutely no difference IMO.
But yeah, not holding my breath for towser83 to change this stance regarding this, just finding it funny.
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Crisstti
Legend
Yeah.
I find it surprising that Federer fans are arguing he wasn't referring to Rafa. It's very clear he is. Plus, it isn't like he hasn't made rude comments about other players before. Not a particularly big deal, IMO, really. But they cannot expect other players not to get upset and answer. And then say they are somehow lashing out out of nowhere against Roger.
Give it a rest you guys. Nadal have admitted that he regrets everything he said in public. If he had to do it all over again, he would approach the situation more intelligently.
Although he never appologize Fed in person, but at least he's aware that he was wrong. Everyone makes mistake and it's no shame to man up.
Although he never appologize Fed in person, but at least he's aware that he was wrong. Everyone makes mistake and it's no shame to man up.
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