sbengte
G.O.A.T.
Nadal was playing golf during his 7 month injury break, apparently, which is known to be hard on the knees. What proof do you have to say that he didn't take the break to just rest , practice and sharpen his game ?
Nadal and Djokovic look like they are aging better than Federer
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Nadal was playing golf during his 7 month injury break, apparently, which is known to be hard on the knees. What proof do you have to say that he didn't take the break to just rest , practice and sharpen his game ?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Maybe but still he had weird losses all over the year. When you do not win a masters ot even reach a non clay masters final something is clealry wrong with you. When you lose to guys like fish, roddick and blake, guys you used to own something is clearly wrong.
Even in slams he was one point away from losing to Haas at RG
And at RG vs Nadal come on. I know nadal played amazingly well but still something was clearly wrong with fed if he managed to lose this bad
kOaMaster
Hall of Fame
and what exactly is the difference? nadal being too much of a peacock to play if he's not 100% fit? too girly to play if something hurts?
your answer is absurd, not sure who the troll is when the only thing you try to imply is "federer is lying about his illness".
that is about as stupid as saying nadal lying about not taking steroids.
just resting and stop playing tennis does not recover you from every injury.
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Kenshin
Semi-Pro
I can't believe you are writing a gabage post like this. Have you consider for a second how hard for a player to regain his top level from a 7 month layoff? Agassi who is a legend in the sport said Nadal will need a year to get back to top level. Stop trolling and get a life.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Nadal was off the court for four months and on the court for three months out of those seven as far as we've been told. Four months with no surgery ain't that much. Three months with training partners is, as we saw, more than enough to make a guy like Nadal fit for competition again.
vernonbc
Legend
Oh really? Who told you that? Some troll posters on tennis forums? It certainly never came from Nadal's camp. From June til December, he was unable to practice. On a couple of occasions he went on court hoping he'd be able to play but his knee wouldn't allow it. When he finally started to practice again in December, he came down with a bad virus that had him in bed for a week and wasn't able to actually start practicing until January.
sbengte
G.O.A.T.
So did everyone who took Nadal's word for his 'injury'. So, if Nadal made the final of his first tournament and started winning everything thereafter, clearly something was amiss and there was more going on behind the scenes than we are given to believe. The baffling thing about Nadal's injuries, as I have said before, is that it never shows in his on-court performances, which is why lots of people tend to think that he and his camp wildly exaggerates injury stories.
Kenshin
Semi-Pro
You think like a typical hater on this forum. Nothing to argue with you because you can only trash talk.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
For those of us who follow Rafa we know this is true, because we actually kept up with his status.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
It has been established inummerous times that mononucleosis comes in varying degrees.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Povl Carstensen
Legend
beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
Haha, in summary, Nadal is the reason for his decline.......:twisted:
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
@the truth,
I saw videos of him training early November. It was my impression he was able to train from then till he got the virus - which then kept him off court for a week or so (but he was on court again before New Year, that I remember, as the pic's came out only a day or two after he withdrew from the Aus Open).
But no, I did not follow him each and every single day during his recovery, so I'm sure you know better than me.
All the more baffling that he can train one month, play tournaments one month and then be better than ever and everyone for the rest of the year, Wimbledon aside (but he was pretty close to getting knocked out early in 2010 as well, so that may be just things not going his way this time).
Omega_7000
Legend
This. I think he basically wanted to take a break from mental burnout...Also, his camp likes to play mind games by citing injuries to get a mental edge.
I agree. This year, his 27/28th, is when the decline really starts for most players. I expect a pretty precipitous decline from Rafa and a relatively early retirement based on his injury history, style of play and some of the comments he's made in the past couple years. I think this is part of the motivation we saw from him last year - gotta achieve these goals before its too late or I run out of knee! - and I think it will motivate him again this year.
I think Fed's career will mainly be judged on the span between 22 and 32 years of age, while Rafa's will be weighed between 18 and 28. But we'll see.
I think Djokovic will eventually take the better of their head to head because he's a year younger and his game will work a little better than Rafa's once they have both lost some explosiveness. But in the end, Rafa will have had the better career; his precocious beginnings and brilliance on clay, and in finals generally, will mean better numbers than Djokovic, unless Nole plays well into his 30s, which he might do if he doesn't blow an ACL or dislocate his ankle again.
sbengte
G.O.A.T.
Ah the joys of having a discussion on TTW with a Nadal fan :
Nadal fan : Fed lied about his mono because he didn't take time off from the tour like the other mono affected players.
Poster1 : Do you believe Nadal lied about his injury because he won a lot more than other injured players ?
Nadal fan : You are a troll. Nadal took 7 months off, Federer none.
Poster 1: How do you know Nadal took 7 months off because he was injured ?
Nadal fan : You are a troll and you write garbage, get a life. Agassi thought Nadal would take one year to get back to form.
Poster 1: Something must be amiss if Nadal immediately started winning everything on getting back.
Nadal fan : OMG, you are a hater and a troll who talks trash .......
T
TheAnty-vic
Guest
Ah the joys of having a discussion on TTW with a Nadal fan :
Nadal fan : Fed lied about his mono because he didn't take time off from the tour like the other mono affected players.
Poster1 : Do you believe Nadal lied about his injury because he won a lot more than other injured players ?
Nadal fan : You are a troll. Nadal took 7 months off, Federer none.
Poster 1: How do you know Nadal took 7 months off because he was injured ?
Nadal fan : You are a troll and you write garbage, get a life. Agassi thought Nadal would take one year to get back to form.
Poster 1: Something must be amiss if Nadal immediately started winning everything on getting back.
Nadal fan : OMG, you are a hater and a troll who talks trash .......
Come on man! It's not like Nadal picked up his racquet for the first time 2 days before his return, since his off time. Obviously, he returned when not only was he fully fit but also when his game was ready for competitive play.
Do you think Nadal would have lost his final of Vin del mar to Zeballos, had it not been his first final back?! Of course he was still rusty. But being a Clay GOAT, he cruised through 'not so great' competition in those early tournaments.
sbengte
G.O.A.T.
The above post was to point out the double standards and 'resort to name calling when you don't have a valid argument' behavior.
Quite possible that whatever you say is true and it is equally applicable for Federer's case in 2008. He had mono, but even in his weakened state was still good enough to make the finals against lower ranked players . How come this is so difficult to fathom ?
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes. Because they both play a more physical game, they have had to work more on their fitness than Federer ever needed to.
T
TheAnty-vic
Guest
Ok man. I don't want to argue about Federer's mono. I have an opinion & it's not gonna change.
So I'm cool with your opinion...
Crisstti
Legend
Nadal would have greatly benefited if Djokovic was 5 years younger.
"It never shows" on his on court performances?, he's lost to 100 or lower ranked players at Wimbledon, and was struggling to challenger level players when he came back (losing in Viña). Yet Federer loses to Roddick and that is proof he was affected by mono?.
Btw, you seem to imply in your posts that you believe Fed was affected by mono in all of 2008 yet Nadal wasn't affected by any knee issues?.
Crisstti
Legend
It does, but some Fed fans talk as if it had a serious long lasting effect on his, when it could well have lasted a couple months, which is what his own comments would seem to indicate I think.
Other than in Acapulco and IW, his level wasn't actually his regular level. It wasn't during the whole clay season for the most part and obviously not at Wimbledon. He only really seemed to be playing his best again after that, at Montreal and after.
As Vernon said, Rafa tried on a couple of occasions to train and found he couldn't. I don't really remember when exactly he actually started training again, though I do remember he had started a little earlier than when it was announced (a close friend of his said so in an interview at the time...).
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Well it seems to have had an impact on his 2008.
What is so hard to understand? They both were affected. Fed by mono and Rafa by injuries. But those are all-time greats. They can still win when they are not 100%.
It's simple. If they are 100% they dominate the field. Not 100%, they only semi dominate.
Fedal fans amuse me the most. They always think it has to be one or the other. They can't understand that both things can be true.
Rafa has a different approach. When not at his best in training, he skips tournaments because he only wants to play when he is at his best. Fed on the other hand when returning from a slump, wants a match practice and to see where his level is at, even if he loses.
They both said this multiple times.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
I don't believe you. Scratch that.
I had to reread post. If he was training in preparation to come back, that makes sense. Then, he got sick and was trying to come back at the Oz. He would have had to get on the court in order to test his knees, obviously once he got on court he could see that he wasn't ready.
Your post is misleading.
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TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
Do you have a link for this?
No. But you can find them if you want. I'm too lazy. I don't need to win this argument that badly to search older videos and interviews
. But both of their tactics have advantages and disadvantages. Rafa maybe comes more rested more often and is tougher to beat. Doesn't give his top rivals the edge. Disadvantage is that he has to sacrifice chances to win more and his consistency records are gone.
For Fed the advantage is that he gets more ranking points, has consistency records and chances to win a bit more. Disadvantage is that sometimes he is not in top form, so his rivals can defeat him and get the mental edge on him.
Maybe Fed should do like Rafa. I mean 23 semis always making finals is amazing. But maybe Fed should skip some majors and rest more and maybe don't have some records. But he would maybe win some of his close finals also. He lost too many of close matches in majors.
Murray skipped RG. Maybe sometimes Fed could do that and focus on grass.
I mean winning W is still better than making RG final and W semi. And he avoids Nole and Rafa gaining mental edge on him. And in his spare time he can rest, practice some new tactics and comes fresh.
Fed's consistency is sometimes his undoing. I think 23 semis and 18 straight finals record is worth sacrificing for a couple of more majors and in the process edging his rivals.
Straight 60 or something GS appearances is amazing, but doesn't help a lot.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
No. But you can find them if you want. I'm too lazy. I don't need to win this argument that badly to search older videos and interviews
I'll never find them because they don't exist.
Are you calling me liar or something? Not nice. I though you were different.
I don't see what the big deal is. They have different approaches, I don't see why you have any problems.
Maybe you should read their books and listen their interviews in other languages. Also to their teams. It's interesting .
For a Rafa fan you seem to know very little about him.
You seem to know very little about Fed's personal life too. At least the part that it is public. Maybe you are more a fan of their games. I'm more a fan of also how they think, their lives and what makes them tick.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
I think Nadal is doing better than Federer did in 2008, and Djokovic is doing slightly better than Federer did in 2008.
I think Fed had it a bit tougher. He had to deal with Rafa/Nole/Murray. And some of the old gang was still breathing that year.
Rafa only had to deal with one threat. Fed had to deal with three + the old gang.
But this is just my opinion. It's a shame that things played out that I didn't get a chance to see Murray 2.0 vs Rafa.
roberttennis54
Semi-Pro
Federer's 2008 was really bad due to Mono. He was below his normal level. In 2009 he began to recover his form, but oddly enough his two best slams were the one he lost. He played much better at the hardcourt slams despite losing than he did at the French and Wimbledon.
Nadal is a strange one, because his form on hardcourts is as good as ever. He may have declined on clay and grass, but has gotten stronger on hardcourts.
Djokovic on the other hand despite results is not at the same level as 2011, but still doing very well.
I think they are fitter than Federer was at the same age. Nadal especially has compensated his loss of speed with extra aggression and weight of shot.
Nadal is a strange one, because his form on hardcourts is as good as ever. He may have declined on clay and grass, but has gotten stronger on hardcourts.
Djokovic on the other hand despite results is not at the same level as 2011, but still doing very well.
I think they are fitter than Federer was at the same age. Nadal especially has compensated his loss of speed with extra aggression and weight of shot.
Yeah, I think mono cost Fed. But it's part of tennis. Rafa had injuries. So, Fed did decline a bit earlier, but it was not age, it was mono.
But decline should not be used as an excuse.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
No. But what you said is big news! You should share it with the world. I, for one would be interested in seeing it, as I have never read anything of the sort.
Since I hadn't read it, I thought you would want to back up what you said. You said it and I want to believe it, but it goes against everything that I have read.
So, do you have a link, or not?
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Murray 2.0 would have maybe taken a couple of more matches, but overall Nadal would win. Nadal has had the advantage since the rivalry began winning most of their matches, but Murray has shown that he can beat Nadal anywhere besides clay. Nole was great in 2008, having good showings everywhere except maybe Wimbledon and Murray was starting to hit his prime. The old gang were still being beaten by Federer, except for a loss here and there. His level drop wasn't immense. It was a very small decline in his form, but small can seem huge against players who are healthy and getting better. He was still better than most of the field and in 2009, he inclined and regained the advantage he had against the old field.
Federer has had it maybe as tough as Nadal has had it this year. Nadal started the year in bad form after not having played for 9 months or so and Federer was a little bit off form, Murray is the Djokovic in this example as he also beat Federer this year at the AO and won a slam. Djokovic is to Nadal like Nadal is to Federer. Both seem to have the kryptonite needed in order to beat their rival consistently and have at one point had the advantage over their rival.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
I do recall Nadal saying things along the lines of only entering a tournament if he truly believes he can win it.. that he needs to feel ready to win the tournament. This is probably along the lines of what jg153040 is stating but it's more well tempered.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
That's funny. I thought he said even when he came back to the tour that he still had pain and that the PRP didn't work, nor did the taping.
A strange statement from someone who wasn't going to play unless he's 100% and only entering tournaments he felt he could win.
I guess with all the articles on the internet, sometimes we get mixed messages. I could have sworn he said he was still playing through the pain.
Oh well.
A strange statement from someone who wasn't going to play unless he's 100% and only entering tournaments he felt he could win.
I guess with all the articles on the internet, sometimes we get mixed messages. I could have sworn he said he was still playing through the pain.
Oh well.
Thanks for backing up my laziness
. I'm just surprised this is news here. I thought all people knew this.I really don't mind who wins. I would just love to see the matchup. Maybe Murray would be more stable in bigger points, so it would be interesting to see.
No I don't have a link. It was long time ago me reading this stuff. And some of it was from German / Spanish interviews.
I'm surprised this is news here. Seems so trivial. Well, now you know. If you decide to trust me or find out yourself.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
Thanks....
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Well one can still play through pain but still feel like they have a legitimate shot at winning the tournament. He was probably quite borderline indeed internally on how he felt his true chances were of winning his first few events back on clay. Also, perspective can change as we grow older, as we all know.
But yes, I do recall him saying things along those lines before but I'm not sure why this would cause any argument as it's hardly contentious, unless one is in the camp of 'Nadal hid away because he was scared to lose' which is a camp I've noticed some people do side with.
I think basically, it's just trivial to me.
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Thanks for backing up my laziness
Yeh but like you I can't be bothered to find links because it's trivial and unimportant. But others can make of it what they will.
It won't be coming up in any quiz shows.
TheTruth
G.O.A.T.
People ask for links all the time. I hardly see that as contentious. And I don't see anyone complaining, in fact, this is a first.
There are a lot of articles on the web and sometimes meanings get misconstrued. I can't imagine a pro player saying "I'm not going to play a tournament unless I have a chance to win it."
Anyone who plays tennis knows they're not going to win every tournament that they enter. Why would they decide, "oh, I'm not going to win this one, so I'm not going to enter."
If Nadal did indeed say that, sure I'd like to see it, because it doesn't make any sense, and isn't a pattern that he or anybody else has followed in this decade.
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Sure, but I am saying that regardless of links backing things up or not, Nadal saying it or not isn't inherently contentious, so I'm lazy to bother in this instance. Every player knows they won't win every tournament but Nadal has never implied anything of the sort, as there is a big difference between believing one can and believing one will.
You'd be surprised how differently champions think. It's like from another planet.
That's why only like 1% of people on this planet are champions.
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