Nadal And The MTO, Illegal Coaching, Time Wasting

Omega_7000

Legend
It’s hard to speak out against Rafael Nadal. Lynn Barber found out just how hard when she wrote about the world number one in a negative light. “Why did no one warn me that being rude about Rafa Nadal is like being rude about prophet Mohammad? Terrifying hate mail from his worshippers,” she posted on Twitter. And she’s right; post a negative comment about Nadal on Twitter and you’re bound to get many replies aggressively disagreeing with your point. Even Roger Federer isn’t this off-limits; fans have learnt to deal with accusations of arrogance and bad sportsmanship over time. Yet whilst Nadal may tick all the boxes when it comes to sportsmanship and humbleness off-court, his medical time outs (MTO) have raised suspicions. In particular, Nadal’s latest ill-timed MTO hasn’t gone unnoticed.

Having saved a set point when serving at 5-6 in the first set, Juan Martin del Potro looked focussed and ready to give his all in the tiebreak. That is until Nadal ran to his seat, swiftly accompanied by a trainer. Nine minutes later (three times the legal allowance) del Potro was angry, confused, and completely distracted. Despite taking a mini-break lead on two occasions, del Potro failed to stay focussed and lost the set to Nadal. Nadal’s foot, which supposedly hurt so much Nadal believed it was broken, was suddenly Ok. Nadal showed no further sign of injury and ran down del Potro’s best shots to win 7-6 3-6 7-6 6-4. By the end of the match, it was del Potro who looked worn-out and barely able to move. The usually reserved del Potro expressed his anger after the match, saying “He was running everywhere and running the same as always. I never thought he’d stop.”

Dodgy MTOs called for at crucial times in matches are nothing new for Nadal. He upset Phillip Petzschner last year at Wimbledon; the German lost focus and his two set to one lead when Nadal called for a trainer before the Petzschner serve. Nadal called for a trainer at 2-5 down against Federer with Federer serving during this year’s Roland Garros final and proceeded to win the set. This was nothing new for Federer, Nadal had done the same thing at Monte Carlo 2006 and Hamburg 2008 with the same result: Federer blowing a substantial lead. His medical time out’s are frequent and often seemingly unnecessary. Yet Nadal seems largely immune to criticism from journalists and fans. Players like Fabio Fognini are heavily criticised when they attempt something similar, but Nadal gets away largely scot-free.

Although Nadal’s actions seem largely unfair, it’s hard to say exactly what tennis can do about Nadal’s MTOs. What Nadal does is more unsportsmanlike than illegal, so umpires can’t put a stop to it, (unlike Nadal’s time wasting, which they are well within their right to punish). It’s easy to say players need to learn to expect MTOs when leading Nadal and deal with them better, but that has to be easier to say than do. It is therefore up to players and journalists to let Nadal know his actions are unacceptable. Much like del Potro, certain bloggers, and some brave writers have heaped scorn upon his abuse of the rules. Perhaps with further criticism, Nadal will put a stop to what some people have gone as far to call cheating. It seems at least part of the tennis community is starting to see through the world number one.

http://anygivensurface.wordpress.com/2011/06/29/unfair-advantage-nadal-and-the-mto/
 
You misunderstand. There has been some ridiculous Anti-Federer posts lately, I think it's only fair that the author has made such a thread. Let's talk about the bad sides both Nadal and Federer, no?
 
Those who bash Rafael Nadal are usually those that are irate or bitter at so-called "classical tennis" (personified by Federer) getting defeated by hard work (personified by Nadal), so often over the years. Nadal fans call his critics out on this nonsense, and emphasise how inspiring Nadal was in standing tall against peak Federer while the rest all cowered or were utterly outclassed.

Nadal fans defend him with vigour because there's that spirit of fighting against those classical fans and establishment who see Federer as the darling of the tennis world, and Nadal as some undesirable. Regarding 2011 Wimbledon, it's obvious that a load of the people backing del Potro to beat Nadal, who raised a hue and cry about Nadal's foot problems, were the anti-Nadal brigade who just wanted Nadal out of the tournament.
 
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Wow the bitterness. It's a point of view that I agree with. Nadal maybe humble off the court but on-court he will do anything to win. Nothing wrong with that but I'm just pointing it out.
 
Those who bash Rafael Nadal are usually those that are irate or bitter at so-called "classical tennis" (personified by Federer) getting defeated by hard work (personified by Nadal), so often over the years. Nadal fans call his critics out on this nonsense, and emphasise how inspiring Nadal was in standing tall against peak Federer while the rest all cowered or were utterly outclassed.

Nadal fans defend him with vigour because there's that spirit of fighting against those classical fans and establishment who see Federer as the darling of the tennis world, and Nadal as some undesirable. Regarding 2011 Wimbledon, it's obvious that a load of the people backing del Potro to beat Nadal, who raised a hue and cry about Nadal's foot problems, were the anti-Nadal brigade who just wanted Nadal out of the tournament.

Bla bla bla rage against the establisment bla bla bla...

Pause for a moment and glance a bit around the forum, maybe you'll notice that your fellow freedom fighters have been working overtime (with relentless vigour) in Fed bashing lately and this thread is obviously a response to that, not because the OP decided to criticize Nadal's spotless on court persona out of the blue.
 
Those who bash Rafael Nadal are usually those that are irate or bitter at so-called "classical tennis" (personified by Federer) getting defeated by hard work (personified by Nadal), so often over the years. Nadal fans call his critics out on this nonsense, and emphasise how inspiring Nadal was in standing tall against peak Federer while the rest all cowered or were utterly outclassed.

Nadal fans defend him with vigour because there's that spirit of fighting against those classical fans and establishment who see Federer as the darling of the tennis world, and Nadal as some undesirable. Regarding 2011 Wimbledon, it's obvious that a load of the people backing del Potro to beat Nadal, who raised a hue and cry about Nadal's foot problems, were the anti-Nadal brigade who just wanted Nadal out of the tournament.

Never said he's a bad player. I agree he is one of the greats but he's not an angel like Nadal fans make him out to be.
 
Bla bla bla rage against the establisment bla bla bla...

Pause for a moment and glance a bit around the forum, maybe you'll notice that your fellow freedom fighters have been working overtime (with relentless vigour) in Fed bashing lately and this thread is obviously a response to that, not because the OP decided to criticize Nadal spotless on court persona out of the blue.

I didn't see Mustard coming out and criticizing all the threads that are bashing Fed because he is losing in the twilight of his career. But one thread with a link to a negative article about Nadal and he's got his pan*ies in a bunch!

This is exactly what the author was talking about....getting thousands of terrifying hate mail from rabid Nadal fans because he/she dared to speak out the truth.
 
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I didn't see Mustard coming out and criticizing all the threads that are bashing Fed because he is losing in the twilight of his career. But one thread with a link to a negative article about Nadal and he's got his pan*ies in a bunch!

Of course, it's OK if the vultures around here descend on Fed (gotta cut them some slack though, they have been forced to wait for a long time) but dare to criticize the Golden Bull? God forbid, freedom fighters (humble little bulls) cannot allow such travesty to continue, that will not stand.

This is exactly what the author was talking about....getting thousands of terrifying hate mail from rabid Nadal fans because he/she dared to speak out the truth.

LOL, I remember that, hilarious stuff.
 
I was on these forums at the time of the Nadal vs. del Potro match at 2011 Wimbledon, and the boards were swamped by anti-Nadal threads when he dared to take a MTO. MTOs are perfectly within the rules. Of course, when del Potro later took a MTO himself, there was either a deathly silence or nauseating hypocrisy. When Nadal won the match, it was extremely satisfying.
 
Those who bash Rafael Nadal are usually those that are irate or bitter at so-called "classical tennis" (personified by Federer) getting defeated by hard work (personified by Nadal), so often over the years. Nadal fans call his critics out on this nonsense, and emphasise how inspiring Nadal was in standing tall against peak Federer while the rest all cowered or were utterly outclassed.

Nadal fans defend him with vigour because there's that spirit of fighting against those classical fans and establishment who see Federer as the darling of the tennis world, and Nadal as some undesirable. Regarding 2011 Wimbledon, it's obvious that a load of the people backing del Potro to beat Nadal, who raised a hue and cry about Nadal's foot problems, were the anti-Nadal brigade who just wanted Nadal out of the tournament.

Great post.
 
Who's to say that she's not an embittered fan? Her word means nothing. She just happens to be wielding the sword of journalism.
 
I was on these forums at the time of the Nadal vs. del Potro match at 2011 Wimbledon, and the boards were swamped by anti-Nadal threads when he dared to take a MTO. MTOs are perfectly within the rules. Of course, when del Potro later took a MTO himself, there was either a deathly silence or nauseating hypocrisy. When Nadal won the match, it was extremely satisfying.

Right again.
 
Of course, it's OK if the vultures around here descend on Fed (gotta cut them some slack though, they have been forced to wait for a long time) but dare to criticize the Golden Bull? God forbid, freedom fighters (humble little bulls) cannot allow such travesty to continue, that will not stand.



LOL, I remember that, hilarious stuff.

Zagor your truly show everyone their real reflection. Outstanding posts from you, not only in this thread, but a few of the others that have been popping up recently.
 
Bla bla bla rage against the establisment bla bla bla...

Pause for a moment and glance a bit around the forum, maybe you'll notice that your fellow freedom fighters have been working overtime (with relentless vigour) in Fed bashing lately and this thread is obviously a response to that, not because the OP decided to criticize Nadal's spotless on court persona out of the blue.
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I didn't see Mustard coming out and criticizing all the threads that are bashing Fed because he is losing in the twilight of his career. But one thread with a link to a negative article about Nadal and he's got his pan*ies in a bunch!

This is exactly what the author was talking about....getting thousands of terrifying hate mail from rabid Nadal fans because he/she dared to speak out the truth.
bingo... and the best thing is that this theory is validated by the 'freedom fighters' themselves ! :rolleyes:
 
lol at Nadal and his fans being freedom fighters. Some of them are the most obnoxious hate filled posters I've ever seen.
 
lol at Nadal and his fans being freedom fighters. Some of them are the most obnoxious hate filled posters I've ever seen.

Please us all when Federer ever got criticism on these forums on the level of Nadal vs. del Potro at 2011 Wimbledon? There was foaming at the mouth going on throughout the last 3 sets of the match and beyond because Nadal dared to take a MTO and win a tough 4-set match.
 
Some of the cheating is obvious afterwards: the foot problem as the author pointed out. As Delpo the gentle giant pointed out, "he was running anywhere". I remember another cases where he claimed a small piece of banana didn't go down properly. Seriously?

Officially his in-match coaching was caught and fined. Did he have to resort to cheating to win? Probably not. The coaching was less damaging than the MTOs and time wasting. But he still cheated.
 
Some of the cheating is obvious afterwards: the foot problem as the author pointed out. As Delpo the gentle giant pointed out, "he was running anywhere". I remember another cases where he claimed a small piece of banana didn't go down properly. Seriously?

Officially his in-match coaching was caught and fined. Did he have to resort to cheating to win? Probably not. The coaching was less damaging than the MTOs and time wasting. But he still cheated.

So Nadal deserves vitriol because of his injured foot and a piece of banana going down his trachea?
 
Please us all when Federer ever got criticism on these forums on the level of Nadal vs. del Potro at 2011 Wimbledon? There was foaming at the mouth going on throughout the last 3 sets of the match and beyond because Nadal dared to take a MTO and win a tough 4-set match.

So it is ok to cheat if Nadal is doing it? This is basically what you are saying in this post because you are not even pretending the MTO was not unnecessary.
 
Those who bash Rafael Nadal are usually those that are irate or bitter at so-called "classical tennis" (personified by Federer) getting defeated by hard work (personified by Nadal), so often over the years. Nadal fans call his critics out on this nonsense, and emphasise how inspiring Nadal was in standing tall against peak Federer while the rest all cowered or were utterly outclassed.

You are clueless.

Both Federer and Nadal have plenty of talent. Both work hard.


Nadal fans defend him with vigour because there's that spirit of fighting against those classical fans and establishment who see Federer as the darling of the tennis world, and Nadal as some undesirable.

No.

They "defend" him, because they have no clue what the spirit of the game actually was.

As for the rest of your explanation: Nadal is promoted as much (if not more) by the people that rule the game. He profits just as much from his position in the game, so picturing him as some kind of rebel against the establishment is a talk for the fools.

The rest is your usual nonsense.
 
You are clueless.

Both Federer and Nadal have plenty of talent. Both work hard.




No.

They "defend" him, because they have no clue what the spirit of the game actually was.

As for the rest of your explanation: Nadal is promoted as much (if not more) by the people that rule the game. He profits just as much from his position in the game, so picturing him as some kind of rebel against the establishment is a talk for the fools.

The rest is your usual nonsense.

Very good post.
 
I said no such thing. Nadal hurt his foot, which is why he took a MTO.
Do you have any independent proof other than Nadal claimed so? We all saw and Delpo even complained that he was running like a rabbit.

And that small piece of banana went down just fine. Nadal said so in the post game interview when asked.
 
You are clueless.

Both Federer and Nadal have plenty of talent. Both work hard.

I was talking in relative terms. Federer is more talented. Obviously, all tennis players are talented and work hard in absolute terms.

No.

They "defend" him, because they have no clue what the spirit of the game actually was.

"Spirit of the game"? What's that in official terms? The umpire is out there to enforce the rules, and MTOs are perfectly legal.

As for the rest of your explanation: Nadal is promoted as much (if not more) by the people that rule the game. He profits just as much from his position in the game.

His rivalry with Federer is a huge draw, that's why.
 
Do you have any independent proof other than Nadal claimed so?

Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? It's not up to Nadal or anyone else to prove that he was injured, it is up to the anti-Nadal brigade to prove that he was faking it.
 
I was talking in relative terms. Federer is more talented. Obviously, all tennis players are talented and work hard in absolute terms.



"Spirit of the game"? What's that in official terms? The umpire is out there to enforce the rules, and MTOs are perfectly legal.



His rivalry with Federer is a huge draw, that's why.

And how do you define talent? I say Nadal is more talented on clay, can you dispute that? If you can, tell me why he is less talented than Federer on clay.
 
And how do you define talent? I say Nadal is more talented on clay, can you dispute that? If you can, tell me why he is less talented than Federer on clay.

Talent is not really dependent on a particular surface. Nadal wins on clay because of his excellent consistency over a long period on the objective conditions that clay provides. Other players can't keep up with it, the mental and physical discipline that is required.
 
I was talking in relative terms. Federer is more talented. Obviously, all tennis players are talented and work hard in absolute terms.

and you know Nadal puts in more work than Federer how exactly? Just because Federer's game does not involve as much running does not mean he doesn't work hard. Maybe he works harder than Nadal to make it look effortless on the court? Ever thought about that or has this pseudo Nadal rebel cr*p blinded you?
 
Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? It's not up to Nadal or anyone else to prove that he was injured, it is up to the anti-Nadal brigade to prove that he was faking it.

Right. Then his in match coaching was officially fined, appealed and upheld. Cheater "convicted" as charged.
 
Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? It's not up to Nadal or anyone else to prove that he was injured, it is up to the anti-Nadal brigade to prove that he was faking it.

the thing about nadal is this-when other players are injured, they play like it. back problem, knee problem, wrist problem, it shows in their games, in an obvious way. quite frankly i can't think of a time where nadal actually looked injured on court, regardless of his injury du jour. like delpo said, the foot hurt, but he was running around like a maniac. same for the knees, a thousand times over. this leads many of us to conclude he's lying, plain and simple. i wasn't born with an inclination to mistrust rafael nadal, nor was anyone on this board. it's an acquired perception based on some very strong evidence.
 
Those who bash Rafael Nadal are usually those that are irate or bitter at so-called "classical tennis" (personified by Federer) getting defeated by hard work (personified by Nadal), so often over the years. Nadal fans call his critics out on this nonsense, and emphasise how inspiring Nadal was in standing tall against peak Federer while the rest all cowered or were utterly outclassed.

Nadal fans defend him with vigour because there's that spirit of fighting against those classical fans and establishment who see Federer as the darling of the tennis world, and Nadal as some undesirable. Regarding 2011 Wimbledon, it's obvious that a load of the people backing del Potro to beat Nadal, who raised a hue and cry about Nadal's foot problems, were the anti-Nadal brigade who just wanted Nadal out of the tournament.

But this isn't about "classical tennis" vs "hard work" - it's an empirical fact that has been observed, measured and noted by countless sources. Nadal (and Djokovic) continually flouts the rule about a reasonable 20 seconds to deliver his serve as a tactic to allow him to top up on O2 for another long, long rally to grind down an opponent.

There are two possible responses to this (a) it's an outdated rule and should be changed in order to suit a modern stamina based type of game. (b) This is a clear form of cheating and should be stamped out by the authorities as it is against the spirit of the game and deathly boring for the crowd.

To call it persecution is to simply run away from the issue.
 
Talent is not really dependent on a particular surface. Nadal wins on clay because of his excellent consistency over a long period on the objective conditions that clay provides. Other players can't keep up with it, the mental and physical discipline that is required.

But a particular surface can enhance a talent. Nadal's footwork is second to none on the clay, and he needed to have exceptional talent and coorridination to do what he does and make it look so easy. Foot work is talent, hard work goes into it, but Federer works hard on it too.
 
All I know is that serving within 25 seconds is a rule and he breaks it. What bothers me most is that he does it on important points (break points, critical stages in the match etc.). He obviously isn't doing this out of compulsion but a strategy to put his opponents rhythm off.

He does it sometimes after long physical points to recover and always does it on important points. He's playing a mental game and it works for him because i've never seen anyone save so many break points but don't pretend like he isn't breaking any rules to get there.
 
All I know is that serving within 25 seconds is a rule and he breaks it. What bothers me most is that he does it on important points (break points, critical stages in the match etc.). He obviously isn't doing this out of compulsion but a strategy to put his opponents rhythm off.

He does it sometimes after long physical points to recover and always does it on important points. He's playing a mental game and it works for him because i've never seen anyone save so many break points but don't pretend like he isn't breaking any rules to get there.

I've got news for you: everyone breaks it. Even Federer.
 
All I know is that serving within 25 seconds is a rule and he breaks it. What bothers me most is that he does it on important points (break points, critical stages in the match etc.). He obviously isn't doing this out of compulsion but a strategy to put his opponents rhythm off.
It does not bother me, if anything it adds extra drama. :)

Tennis rallies are now longer and more intense than before, thus it makes sense to me for the players to catch some breath and concentrate for the next rally.

I suppose Nadal is the Hitchcock of the courts. :grin:
 
I've got news for you: everyone breaks it. Even Federer.

Really? I strongly doubt it. He's one of the quickest players between points - flick the sweat off the brow, two or three quick bounces and away. That's my impression anyway. I don't have any figures to back this just my sense of the tempo. I would have thought this was fairly evident.
 
It does not bother me, if anything it adds extra drama. :)

Tennis rallies are now longer and more intense than before, thus it makes sense to me for the players to catch some breath and concentrate for the next rally.

I suppose Nadal is the Hitchcock of the courts. :grin:

Hitchcock? I'm tempted to say you're half right.
 
Please us all when Federer ever got criticism on these forums on the level of Nadal vs. del Potro at 2011 Wimbledon? There was foaming at the mouth going on throughout the last 3 sets of the match and beyond because Nadal dared to take a MTO and win a tough 4-set match.

The answer is very simple, Nadal received criticism for cheating in that match. Federer never cheated, so that's why he never gets that level of criticism.
 
The answer is very simple, Nadal received criticism for cheating in that match. Federer never cheated, so that's why he never gets that level of criticism.

Nadal did not cheat by taking that MTO. Prove he was cheating and then you might have a case, otherwise, you and your ilk just have sore a**es when it comes to Nadal. You all make mountains out of mole hills for every little thing he does.

And Fed has received on court coaching, has cursed the chair umps, smashed rackets to dust, has screamed at the crowd, and even cursed at his opponent before. He's far from wearing a halo himself.
 
MTO's are a part of tennis. If you are playing a worthy opponent and they take an odd tumble or other such unfortunate event, do you want a win by default, or would you rather give them a moment to recover and then continue the battle?

If you want the quick win, I'm not sure why you play tennis. Most will want to continue the battle. As such, MTO's are a part of the game. However, there are those that study the rules and abide by the letter of the law, but not necessarily the spirit. There is nothing to stop you from taking an MTO when you opponent just broke you. Clearly you are trying to stop the momentum, but there are no officials that will stop you from taking an MTO. Why? Because if an official stops you from taking an MTO, and you injure yourself, welcome to the land of lawsuits.

However, D1 tennis has seen its fair share of fake MTO's and has taken a different approach. Yes, sure, go ahead, take your MTO. But, you forfeit a point. Clearly, if you are injured, you will have no problem giving up a point so you can recover. But for the fakes, do you really want to give up a point, just to try to break the momentum?
 
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