Nadal - ANOTHER RECORD - Only player to win a Masters 1000 at least 5 times on two different surfaces

Sport said:
Why are you jumping to Slams when we are discussing Masters 1000? You wanna jump to Slams? OK.

You are just considering 2 of the 3 surfaces but not considering the 3 as a whole. In other words, you are considering only hard and grass, but strategically ignoring clay. If we consider the 3 surfaces as a whole, Nadal has won at least 2 Slams on 3 surfaces (hard, grass and clay). Federer only has 1 Slam on clay. Figure out what Federer would need to have his Slams so evenly distributed by surface as Nadal. He needs another RG.

2 Slams on each surface >>> 1 Slam on each surface. 2 >>1. Nadal has his Slams more evenly distributed by surface than Federer.
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Also hard and grass are not extremely different, especially in this era. If you look at CPI data they all fall in same range. Players who are great on one are usually great on the other as well, Lendl is perhaps the only exception and he played in an era when grass court tennis was very different. Agassi was good (not great) on grass and clay, and great on hard. On the other hand, it's extremely rare for someone with clay as his primary surface to win everywhere like Nadal has, actually no one else has done it besides him. Even Borg couldn't win a slam on hard courts. If clay is your main surface you're handicapped by the nature of the tour, 70% of the tour is on non clay surfaces. Nadal achieved his non clay success while playing alongside two of the greatest players ever on those surfaces. Sampras is considered a top 5 player despite his complete lack of success on clay. Can you imagine the flak Nadal would have had to endure if he didn't win Wimbledon? Nadal's surface versatility is right up there, you can make a case that he is perhaps the best ever at that.
 
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Sport said:
You right are.

The same logic applies to the ATP finals.

Years played on indoor hard: every year.
Years played on indoor grass: never.
Years played on indoor clay: never.

So if we want surface's distribution in the tour, it should be applied everywhere, not only in Masters 1000. Otherwise, we would be displaying a double standard logic.

In an "ideal" world, a "perfect" distribution would be as follows:

3 Masters 1000 on clay, 3 Masters 1000 on grass and 3 Masters 1000 on hard. The ATP finals rotate each year: one year played on indoor hard, the next year on indoor grass, next year on indoor clay, and so on.
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Why only red clay, grass, hard?

There can be many other surfaces: carpet, wood, blue clay, green clay... And many more to be invented. Why exclude any of them?

The fact is tennis is how it is, and players had to adapt. If there was more clay or grass as Nadal's or Federer's fans complain tennis would simply be a different sport, and players would be different.

The only really ''ideal'' solution would be playing the sport always with the same conditions, possibly the cheapest so anyone at all levels can afford it, like hard outdoor for example.
 
Lew II said:
Why only red clay, grass, hard?

There can be many other surfaces: carpet, wood, blue clay, green clay... And many more to be invented. Why exclude any of them?

The fact is tennis is how it is, and players had to adapt. If there was more clay or grass as Nadal's or Federer's fans complain tennis would simply be a different sport, and players would be different.

The only really ''ideal'' solution would be playing the sport always with the same conditions, possibly the cheapest so anyone at all levels can afford it, like hard outdoor for example.
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I vote for ice, sand and a bouncy castle.
 
Sport said:
Two months ago, Nadal became the first and only male player in the history of tennis to win a Masters 1000 at least 5 times on two different surfaces. Nadal has won 11 Montecarlo titles, 8 Rome titles and 5 Canadian Open.

Amazing versatility on 2 surfaces from Nadal!

Djokovic only needs 1 extra Rome title to achieve this record.

Federer would need to win 3 more Madrid titles to achieve this record.
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Shouldn't Hamburg and Madrid count as a single M1000 for the purpose of this kind of record? Federer won Hamburg 4 times and then it was replaced by Madrid in the same "M1000 spot", which he won twice, winning a total of six "3rd clay M1000".
 
BeatlesFan said:
Federer's won 3/4 slams 5+ times. Figure out what Nadal would have to do to achieve this and get back with us, since it's a vastly bigger deal than what anybody does at a Masters 1000 event.

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Nadal won at least 2 grand slams on each of the surfaces. None of Federer and Djokovic could do it. This is called versatility.
 
Yeah nice record but it has a lot to do with the fact that Nadal comes fresh to Canada after his usual early round exit at Wimbledon.
 
Xemi666 said:
Says who? And WTF is not a slam, and never will be.

20> 19> 16

You better keep praying those 19 don't keep increasing, because WTF is irrelevant in that count.
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literally the whole tennis community aside from Nadal fans like you. And when did I compare it to a slam? Its for sure more prestigious than the gold medal. Even players like Thiem skipped the Olympics because they prioritized other tournaments.
 
robthai said:
literally the whole tennis community aside from Nadal fans like you. And when did I compare it to a slam? Its for sure more prestigious than the gold medal. Even players like Thiem skipped the Olympics because they prioritized other tournaments.
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Fedrerer skipped WTF finals just to play Davis cup and Olympic gold is 10 times more prestigious than Davis cup.
 
robthai said:
literally the whole tennis community aside from Nadal fans like you. And when did I compare it to a slam? Its for sure more prestigious than the gold medal. Even players like Thiem skipped the Olympics because they prioritized other tournaments.
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By the whole tennis comunity you mean Nadal haters, right? Fed and Djokovic are desperate to get that Gold Medal but sure, it isn't prestigious, do you have any credible sources that measure the prestige of each one? :-D

I'm glad to see that you don't dispute that WTF is irrelevant to the slam count, which is what actually matters in the end, good for you (y)
 
Xemi666 said:
Says who? And WTF is not a slam, and never will be.

20> 19> 16

You better keep praying those 19 don't keep increasing, because WTF is irrelevant in that count.
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Gaping hole in the Nadal resume... but he will always be the KOC.

I'd be proud of that because no one can take that away.

Not bad, not bad at all.
 
The_Order said:
He'd need 1 more US Open and 3 more Wimbledons.

If not for Federer and Djokovic, he would have done this.

But don't act like Fed did it by going through Nadal and Novak...

He beat Novak once on his way to an AO title but only in 2007 so it doesn't count for much.

He also beat him twice for US Open titles (again in 07 and once more in 08) both times when Novak was in very early 20's.

He beat Nadal for 1 AO title.

Hasn't beat Nadal at the US Open.

So he basically cashed in on guys like Baghdatis, Gonzales etc.
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All the while Gonzalez , Rosol, Darcis , Miller cashed in on Rafa
 
Nadal sucks indoors . Why are Fed lovers again and again pointing that out ?

Rafa does not care about versatility. His goal is to cross Fed even if it means getting 20 RG
 
I have back problems and will be home for two days heavily medicated.

Nadal better prove useful in Paris or I'm giving him hell.

It's a win win
 
Frank Bannister said:
One Gold over Silver doesn't make up for 6 WTF LOL
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7 additional Masters titles does, though :cool:

Repeat with me: WTF is not a slam.

tennis_pro said:
Is this how Nadal wants to make up for his deficiencies outside of clay?
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Deficiencies outside of clay? Hmmm, so having more slams outside of clay than players like Becker and Edberg is a deficiency, I guess those players totally suck according to you :cool:

How will Federer make up for his deficiencies on clay, though? Only 1 RG? Lol.
 
Xemi666 said:
Deficiencies outside of clay? Hmmm, so having more slams outside of clay than players like Becker and Edberg is a deficiency, I guess those players totally suck according to you :cool:
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Verdasco, Youzhny, Robredo, Gasquet, Rublev, Anderson, Schwartzman, Berrettini, Medvedev. PRAY TO YOUR BLUE COLLAR KING OF MUG DRAWS.
Xemi666 said:
How will Federer make up for his deficiencies on clay, though? Only 1 RG? Lol.
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Why would Federer care about this peasant surface again?
 
tennis_pro said:
Verdasco, Youzhny, Robredo, Gasquet, Rublev, Anderson, Schwartzman, Berrettini, Medvedev. PRAY TO YOUR BLUE COLLAR KING OF MUG DRAWS.
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Yeah, it's unfortunate Nadal didn't have to play GOATs like Gonzalez or Baghdatis LMAO.

Why would Federer care about this peasant surface again?
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Because its slam counts just as much as the others, and it's gonna make Nadal surpass him eventually as long as he keeps winning there. Too bad Federer couldn't beat Nadal on his own turf, unlike the other way round, huh? :cool:

Frank Bannister said:
Translation:

Nadal won 7 clay tournaments some f******* where and ran from Federer afterwards.
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Yeah, Nadal sure ran from Federer at non-clay slams lol. Unlike Federer who skipped a slam for years because he knew he had no chance there. Call me when Federer beats Nadal at RG, like Nadal beat him at Wimbledon and AO :-D
 
Xemi666 said:
Yeah, about as gaping as not having the singles Olympic Gold Medal :cool:
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https://www.ubitennis.net/2019/04/indian-wells-champion-dominic-thiem-skip-2020-olympic-games/


“Tokyo is a beautiful city, but I would rather spend a full week in Kitzbuhel. That decision was not particularly difficult,” Thiem said during a press conference on Monday.

“For me, the Olympics is athletics, swimming – for me as a tennis player it’s a dream to be here in Wimbledon, to play well there. Of course it would be nice to be at the Olympics once, but I do not dream of it every day.” Thiem said in 2015.
 
robthai said:
https://www.ubitennis.net/2019/04/indian-wells-champion-dominic-thiem-skip-2020-olympic-games/


“Tokyo is a beautiful city, but I would rather spend a full week in Kitzbuhel. That decision was not particularly difficult,” Thiem said during a press conference on Monday.

“For me, the Olympics is athletics, swimming – for me as a tennis player it’s a dream to be here in Wimbledon, to play well there. Of course it would be nice to be at the Olympics once, but I do not dream of it every day.” Thiem said in 2015.
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ForumMember said:
Fedrerer skipped WTF finals just to play Davis cup and Olympic gold is 10 times more prestigious than Davis cup.
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Enjoy buddy.

Roger Federer also skipped RG for years, I guess slams aren't prestigious enough, either huh? :-D
 
Xemi666 said:
Enjoy buddy.

Roger Federer also skipped RG for years, I guess slams aren't prestigious enough, either huh? :-D
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you are clutching at straws. Completely different circumstances. Why would Fed compromise his body going into the most important tournament (Wimbledon) when he was firm favorite that year?
 
Xemi666 said:
Enjoy buddy.

Roger Federer also skipped RG for years, I guess slams aren't prestigious enough, either huh? :-D
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and we are not comparing the WTF with slams. We are comparing it with the Olympics. You keep changing the subject to slams because you have no reply.
 
robthai said:
you are clutching at straws. Completely different circumstances. Why would Fed compromise his body going into the most important tournament (Wimbledon) when he was firm favorite that year?
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The ones who's clutching at straws is you (and the rest of the Fedt*rds) by involving WTF in a discussion where only slams matter :cool:

Look, more proof that Federer doesn't care about the Olympics


"I had to figure out the schedule with clay, grass, US Open, hard courts. I knew I always wanted to play at the Olympics but I didn't know if I could do everything because I'm not the youngest anymore and I have to pick my moments.
"But I just felt like the Olympics, I can do it and I want to do it so let's do it. I reached out to the team and said can I announce it here while I am actually in Tokyo?
"So finally I decided and I couldn't be happier and I'm super excited."
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it did hurt me a lot when I missed Rio because of my knee issues in '16."
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edition.cnn.com

Roger Federer wants to compete at Tokyo 2020 Olympics | CNN

As he nears the end of a remarkable career Roger Federer says he wants to play for Switzerland at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com

robthai said:
and we are not comparing the WTF with slams. We are comparing it with the Olympics. You keep changing the subject to slams because you have no reply.
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I don't have a reply to what? You are the ones who started derailing this thread with the WTF BS. Furthermore, I asked you to bring objective proof that WTF is more prestigious than the Olympics and guess what: you didn't bring ****.

Look, another player that doesn't care about the Olympics:

"This is one of the toughest losses in my career," said Djokovic, who was trying to win his first Olympic title.
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www.bbc.com

Top seed Djokovic out in first round

Top seed Novak Djokovic is knocked out of the Olympic's men's singles in the first round by Argentina's Juan Martin del Potro.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

Oops, except he totally does.
 
Xemi666 said:
The ones who's clutching at straws is you (and the rest of the Fedt*rds) by involving WTF in a discussion where only slams matter :cool:

Look, more proof that Federer doesn't care about the Olympics







edition.cnn.com

Roger Federer wants to compete at Tokyo 2020 Olympics | CNN

As he nears the end of a remarkable career Roger Federer says he wants to play for Switzerland at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics.
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com



I don't have a reply to what? You are the ones who started derailing this thread with the WTF BS. Furthermore, I asked you to bring objective proof that WTF is more prestigious than the Olympics and guess what: you didn't bring ****.

Look, another player that doesn't care about the Olympics:



www.bbc.com

Top seed Djokovic out in first round

Top seed Novak Djokovic is knocked out of the Olympic's men's singles in the first round by Argentina's Juan Martin del Potro.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

Oops, except he totally does.
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Want me to make a poll then and we will see based on results of the community? Ask yourself this, why would a player like Thiem skip an even that only happens every 4 years if it were so prestigious? Thiem would never skip the WTF unless he was injured.

https://www.southbendtribune.com/sp...cle_4d142f3f-1067-5f47-b6d7-49d0cb6c999c.html

Obviously some players value the Olympics more than others, but there isnt some kind of consensus that you alluding to. However every player values the WTF and participate given the opportunity unlike the Olympics.
 
ForehandRF said:
The Olympics are so overrated on this forum it's beyond belief.I would rather see Fed winning Rome than the Olympic Gold in singles.He aready has a gold in doubles so who cares about having one in singles too.
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I care.

I'll take Tokyo Gold over Rome, no question.
 
Lleytonstation said:
And if there was grass masters like there should be? Kind of highlights this sad discrepancy on the ATP tour eh?
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Ifs, together with shoulds and woulds, are in Fed's fan expertise field, so wont say anything...
Frank Bannister said:
I hate to burst your bubble @Sport, but Federer has already achieved this by winning Hamburg 4 times and Madrid twice.

tumblr_nw4yi0sP8B1sk4lvto1_1280.jpg
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So he won one clay tournament 6 times, and other two 0 times? Isn't he most vertisale, adoptive, talented player... ever? Or not?
Lleytonstation said:
Didn't use to be that way.
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Sorry, but no, whole Federer carrier nothing changed, he knew there is one grass slam and no grass masters...
 
MeatTornado said:
I care.

I'll take Tokyo Gold over Rome, no question.
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Gold would mean more for Federer personally, probably in the wider tennis community too I guess. It would be sweet legacy wise for Fed to grab a big clay title at this point in his career though.
 
beard said:
Ifs, together with shoulds and woulds, are in Fed's fan expertise field, so wont say anything...

So he won one clay tournament 6 times, and other two 0 times? Isn't he most vertisale, adoptive, talented player... ever? Or not?

Sorry, but no, whole Federer carrier nothing changed, he knew there is one grass slam and no grass masters...
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He already has 10 titles on two different surfaces in the past week. That's just this week :p:cool:
 
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