Nadal at this point in career...

[sanak]

This clay season when Nadal won his third monte carlo masters match he surpassed John McEnroe in number of tour level matches won.

McEnroe: 881 ATP wins
Nadal: 882 ATP wins

After winning monte carlo masters he then eclipsed McEnroe in total number of weeks spent at no.1.

McEnroe: 170 weeks
Nadal: 171 weeks

By winning Rome Nadal (4th all time) also have now won more ATP titles than McEnroe (5th all time).

McEnroe: 77 titles
Nadal: 78 titles

So if you ask where does Nadal stand at this point in time in his career, he just surpassed John McEnroe in greatness

Side note: in madrid he also beats McEnroe's long standing consecutive sets won on a single surface. Nadal 50 on clay to Mac's 49 on carpet.

 

[BeatlesFan]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

 

[Eye Test]

Still causing his haters severe meltdowns left, right and center

 

[sanak]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

Mac had a short lived career imo. 6 or 7 years at top. Nadal is at 14 years and going strong. Perhaps it's the hardwork as you say.

 

[sanak]

Still causing his haters severe meltdowns left, right and center

I'm a Nadal fan btw. The thread isn't entirely serious. Looking at it, Mac did achieve a lot in a short span!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Nadal 16 slams and 4 YE # 1 with a career overlapping with Federer, Djokovic & Murray (35 slams)
McEnroe 7 slams and 4 YE # 1 with a career overlapping with Borg, Connors & Lendl (23 slams)

Rafa comes out well on top

 

[AlexanderTheGreat08]

This clay season when Nadal won his third monte carlo masters match he surpassed John McEnroe in number of tour level matches won.

McEnroe: 881 matches
Nadal: 882 matches

After winning monte carlo masters he then eclipsed McEnroe in total number of weeks spent at no.1.

McEnroe: 170 weeks
Nadal: 171 weeks

By winning Rome Nadal (4th all time) also have now won more ATP titles than McEnroe (5th all time).

McEnroe: 77 titles
Nadal: 78 titles

So if you ask where does Nadal stand at this point in time in his career, he just surpassed John McEnroe in greatness

Side note: in madrid he also beats McEnroe's long standing consecutive sets won on a single surface. Nadal 50 on clay to Mac's 49 on carpet.

Welcome New user , Well McEnroe didn’t won at least two majors in each surface, He has 0 RGs , Nadal has 10 RGs

 

[Incognito]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

Did Mac hit a better fh? Bh? Transition from defense to offense? Mac had a better serve and volleyed better. What else aside from nostalgia?

 

[Deleted member 756486]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

Have you watched a Nadal clay match from 2004-2008? If that’s not talent then nothing is.

 

[Tennisanity]

It's amazing that Mac still leads Nadal at 50% of the slams having won only 7 slams!!! LOL

 

[yokied]

I had no idea that it was so close if you exclude the slam count. I agree Mac was more talented but it was a different game then. The physicality of the sport and the medical science was nowhere near as developed as it is now. Mac was basically just a regular dude who had outrageous touch and would not have compared well to other peak athletes in other sports. The big four and most of the top 50 are serious, high quality athletes judged against any other athletes of today.

 

[K-H]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body.

That’s just wrong on soo many levels. I expected better from you...

 

[marc45]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

talent

 

[AlexanderTheGreat08]

It's amazing that Mac still leads Nadal at 50% of the slams having won only 7 slams!!! LOL

It’s amazing that McEnroe has 0 RG while Nadal has 10

 

[Standaa]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Nadal has more innate talent than Mac, the second most talented player in the history of tennis? Once more with emphasis: Nadal is the greater player without question. Nothing to argue about.

 

[cluckcluck]

And still, not a single WTF.

 

[welcome2petrkordaland]

Given that the tour is as supremely hard court dominated as it is today, the fact that the WTF never changes surfaces makes it that much less fair. Throw in the fact that even the Olympics is not going to clay, and you have an unfair scenario

 

[justasport]

Best ever list as of now:
1. R. Federer
2. R. Nadal
3. N. Djokovic
4. R. Laver
5. P. Sampras

So I'd say Nadal is doing quite well at this point in his career.

 

[Tennisanity]

It’s amazing that McEnroe has 0 RG while Nadal has 10

FO and AO were not considered as big as W and THE OPEN in Mac's time.

 

[AlexanderTheGreat08]

FO and AO were not considered as big as W and THE OPEN in Mac's time.

He did say he wanted to win the AO , Why would he go to the tourney then? He just wasn’t good enough , Did you saw his facial expressions after losing the 1984 RG F?

 

[Tshooter]

 

[Standaa]

Nadal has more innate talent than Mac, the second most talented player in the history of tennis? Once more with emphasis: Nadal is the greater player without question. Nothing to argue about.

Didn’t know there is something as a talent measuring instrument to know exactly and objectively how to rank each player on a talent scale to make such statements. And I never said Nadal is more talented, he is not, but I don’t like the way you compared the amount of talent each guy has by such an absurd analogy.

 

[aman92]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

That's highly underselling Rafa's talent and overselling Mcenroe's. Yes McEnroe was very talented but his game wasn't inpenetrable and suited to faster surfaces. Only an American would call a 16 time grand slam champ some sort of a chump the way you are describing Nadal's talent.

 

[aman92]

I'm a Nadal fan btw. The thread isn't entirely serious. Looking at it, Mac did achieve a lot in a short span!

McEnroe did play till he was 33 IIRC

 

[aman92]

Nadal has more innate talent than Mac, the second most talented player in the history of tennis? Once more with emphasis: Nadal is the greater player without question. Nothing to argue about.

And who are you to say that McEnroe was the second most talented player in the history of tennis? Just a throwaway statement that has no backup whatsoever. Talent is extremely subjective- did McEnroe strike the ball as clean as Nadal from the back of the court? No ****in way

 

[TennisD]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

The idea that Nadal isn't a supremely talented tennis player is absurd. Almost as absurd as the idea that "talent level" somehow registers when it comes to figuring out how good a player actually is.

 

[Gato]

McEnroe said many times on tv matches commentatory that to him Rafa is the greatest of all time

 

[MasterZeb]

I think it would be pretty tough to say that a top 3 of all time player with 16 slams, and still counting, has that much less talent than McEnroe

 

[titoelcolombiano]

It's amazing that Mac still leads Nadal at 50% of the slams having won only 7 slams!!! LOL

What's actually amazing is that Mac's entire career slam count is only one ahead of Nadal without even one RG title being accounted for. Mac also failed to win RG or AO. Nadal has one all four - it is a no-contest.

 

[Bender]

This clay season when Nadal won his third monte carlo masters match he surpassed John McEnroe in number of tour level matches won.

McEnroe: 881 matches
Nadal: 882 matches

After winning monte carlo masters he then eclipsed McEnroe in total number of weeks spent at no.1.

McEnroe: 170 weeks
Nadal: 171 weeks

By winning Rome Nadal (4th all time) also have now won more ATP titles than McEnroe (5th all time).

McEnroe: 77 titles
Nadal: 78 titles

So if you ask where does Nadal stand at this point in time in his career, he just surpassed John McEnroe in greatness

Side note: in madrid he also beats McEnroe's long standing consecutive sets won on a single surface. Nadal 50 on clay to Mac's 49 on carpet.

Retribution for when McEnroe called the nedl the best volleyer on tour and received the nonstop ire of TTW NTRP 3.0 armchair pundits.

McEnroe said many times on tv matches commentatory that to him Rafa is the greatest of all time

For sure a leftist conspiracy, no?

 

[TheFifthSet]

And who are you to say that McEnroe was the second most talented player in the history of tennis? Just a throwaway statement that has no backup whatsoever. Talent is extremely subjective- did McEnroe strike the ball as clean as Nadal from the back of the court? No ****in way

People tend to think that if it doesn’t pertain to shotmaking, it’s not ‘talent’.

In reality, even if McEnroe worked 10x as hard as Nadal did, he could never have been as successful on clay as Nadal has been. Give him a hundred lifetimes and he still doesn’t approach Nadal’s body of work on clay in any of them. What does that say?


I don’t necessarily even consider Nadal the more talented player, but this is too much hyperbole.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

I sometimes wonder where the notion comes from that Mac was so unbelievably talented. First of all talent cannot be really measured anyways but apart from that, what make people believe Mac was so superior to everyone else in that department? Your sentence:”more talent in his little finger than (insert name of player)” is something I have read a lot in these boards. Mc Enroe had great touch and GOAT level volleys as well as a good serve (not Sampras like however) but what else exactly made him so special. He had very ugly looking groundstokes, average Fitness and movement and his return and passing shots weren’t out of this world either. So I don’t get why people are always blowing his talent way out of proportion?? A guy like Sampras was better in almost every department except volleying and even there it is closer than many people think. However, Sampras is never praised here as exceptionally talented.

 

[Bender]

Nadal has more innate talent than Mac, the second most talented player in the history of tennis? Once more with emphasis: Nadal is the greater player without question. Nothing to argue about.

And what is your barometer for measuring talent exactly?

 

[Deon Sanders]

Perhaps it's the hardwork as you say.

Or perhaps he was hitting with Maria Tha Cheata the other day for another hook up for some good good

 

[vanioMan]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

How exactly did you measure both John's and Rafa's talent and came to the conclusion that Mac is more talented?

Rafa is by far one of the most talented players ever, not too far of from Roger (even Federer himself said that Nadal might even be more talented).

Do you think the shot at 3:33 is a product of little talent and only hard work?

People who claim Nadal has little talent just showcase their lack of tennis knowledge.

 

[TheGhostOfAgassi]

How exactly did you measure both John's and Rafa's talent and came to the conclusion that Mac is more talented?

Rafa is by far one of the most talented players ever, not too far of from Roger (even Federer himself said that Nadal might even be more talented).

Do you think the shot at 3:33 is a product of little talent and only hard work?

People who claim Nadal has little talent just showcase their lack of tennis knowledge.

Rafa started to win slams as a teen. If youre born w talent you do that. Ill say Rafa got more talent than Federer himself.

 

[Deleted member 756486]

Rafa started to win slams as a teen. If youre born w talent you do that. Ill say Rafa got more talent than Federer himself.

I would say Federer is more talented but Rafa has incredible talent and he had much better attitude than Federer did when they were younger.

 

[kevaninho]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

Nadal only won titles because of fitness I see . Maybe we should throw in Mo Farah to Wimbledon. Im sure his fitness and hard work would secure him the title in this weak era.

 

[Zebrev]

Federer most talented in the history.

 

[Phoenix1983]

Best ever list as of now:
1. R. Federer
2. R. Nadal
3. N. Djokovic
4. R. Laver
5. P. Sampras

So I'd say Nadal is doing quite well at this point in his career.

Nadal is by no means greater than Laver.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Kind of epic how each event he took something else from Mac lol

 

[ScottleeSV]

I only saw Mac at the back end of his career but he looked way worse at 32 than Nadal does, I'll say that. Mac looked ready for a wheelchair when I saw him battered by Agassi at Wimbledon 92.

 

[Tennisanity]

He did say he wanted to win the AO , Why would he go to the tourney then? He just wasn’t good enough , Did you saw his facial expressions after losing the 1984 RG F?

Uh yeah because he was up two sets to zero at the FO.

 

[Tennisanity]

What's actually amazing is that Mac's entire career slam count is only one ahead of Nadal without even one RG title being accounted for. Mac also failed to win RG or AO. Nadal has one all four - it is a no-contest.

Exactly, clay court monkey.

 

[Hawaiian grip]

It's amazing that Mac still leads Nadal at 50% of the slams having won only 7 slams!!! LOL

It is also amazing to think that Nadal has the same amount of non-clay slams as the likes of Stefan Edberg and Boris Becker, one more than Lendl, two more than Wilander and only one less than McEnroe and Agassi. Mind you, that's the guy you folks call 'clay specialist'.

I wonder if you'll ever get tired of making a fool of yourself around here.

 

[clout]

As anyone who ever saw Johnny Mac play will attest: he had more talent in his little finger than Rafa has in his whole body. But Rafa was an extremely fit and hard worker with mental toughness Mac could only dream about post-1985. So their careers (Mac 7 slams, Rafa more than twice that) clearly shows who was the "greater" (albeit vastly less talented) player.

Cant' say I agree with the fact that Mac was a "better" or "more talented player" simply for the fact that athletes (including tennis players) get better overtime. Players nowadays are much stronger, faster, more athletic, and have better stamina than any era before them.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

It is also amazing to think that Nadal has the same amount of non-clay slams as the likes of Stefan Edberg and Boris Becker, one more than Lendl, two more than Wilander and only one less than McEnroe and Agassi. Mind you, that's the guy you folks call 'clay specialist'.

I wonder if you'll ever get tired of making a fool of yourself around here.

A player who has won the career slam, has multiple Wimbledon titles, has more USO titles than the likes of Djokovic and Agassi, lets not forget has 13 non-clay slam finals to his 10 on clay...in others words, a clay specialist has played more non-clay slam finals than clay slam finals. He has won olympics on a fast HC, won the summer slam in 2013 being only one of three men to do that - something even Sampras, Agassi and Federer couldn't do....Has won on fast grass at Queens...is anything but a clay court specialist. Take away Nadal's clay wins, and he still has an ATG career.

Only on TTW do you get negative marks for being extremely dominant at something.

 

[Tennisanity]

It is also amazing to think that Nadal has the same amount of non-clay slams as the likes of Stefan Edberg and Boris Becker, one more than Lendl, two more than Wilander and only one less than McEnroe and Agassi. Mind you, that's the guy you folks call 'clay specialist'.

I wonder if you'll ever get tired of making a fool of yourself around here.

It means off clay he's no better than Becker, Edberg and the like, and probably worse.

 

[clout]

A player who has won the career slam, has multiple Wimbledon titles, has more USO titles than the likes of Djokovic and Agassi, lets not forget has 13 non-clay slam finals to his 10 on clay...in others words, a clay specialist has played more non-clay slam finals than clay slam finals. He has won olympics on a fast HC, won the summer slam in 2013 being only one of three men to do that - something even Sampras, Agassi and Federer couldn't do....Has won on fast grass at Queens...is anything but a clay court specialist. Take away Nadal's clay wins, and he still has an ATG career.

Only on TTW do you get negative marks for being extremely dominant at something.

I highly doubt any real tennis fan actually believes Nadal is still a clay specialist (hell u can argue that he was never a clay specialist at any point in his career). If u look at each ATG's resume away from their favourite surface, Nadal sits 3rd all time in terms of slams won off their fav surface. Only Federer and Sampras have more, and Sampras could only win on one other surface besides his favorite.