Nadal 'bending rules again'
- Thread starter kostak
- Start date
:shock:Um, Djokovic hit a screaming winner on match point and won the other one purely on his own without any help from Roger. That had nothing to do with Roger choking or folding, just that Djokovic outplayed Roger on the match points.
Murrayfan31
Hall of Fame
Well the cheating didn't help him this time. Vamos. 
falkenburg
Banned
In the US Open, both he and Noel were warned for time violations, and, guess what, they sped things up a bit. When the 2nd warning is the loss of a point, it's amazing how attitudes can change. Of course, Nadal was warned for illegal coaching in that final, as well, and the puny fines he has received for that aren't much of a deterrent. But the officials in this tournament evidently have no balls, he should be docked a point and wasn't.
falkenburg
Banned
Oh, yeah, hitting a deep first serve that gets hit for an outright winner by the world's top player, that just SCREAMS "incredible failure," LOL... What, no "ghastly" pelvic thrusts from Widdle **** today?
Since both Nole/Nadal likes to play at a slow pace, I wonder if they were forced to play at a faster rate, who is more at a disadvantage. Couple of years back I would say Nole b/c of his breathing problem, but today I have to say Nadal...he doesn't have that same level energy in him.
Murrayfan31
Hall of Fame
yellowoctopus
Professional
He is not playing that badly, certainly not the 2010 form but not indicative of his decline at all, if that's what you are implying.
Mr. Djokovic has been a significant factor in his decreased confidence level. It would be somewhat uplifting to see Mr. Nadal figure out Djokovic, but also equally exciting to see Djokovic becomes what Mr. Nadal is to Mr. Federer.
Clarky21
Banned
He is not playing that badly, certainly not the 2010 form but not indicative of his decline at all, if that's what you are implying.
Mr. Djokovic has been a significant factor in his decreased confidence level. It would be somewhat uplifting to see Mr. Nadal figure out Djokovic, but also equally exciting to see Djokovic becomes what Mr. Nadal is to Mr. Federer.
Really? I think this is some of the worst tennis I have seen nadal play since the second half of 2009. He is really a mess from top to bottom,and his game has lost any sting it once had. If he had any sense at all he would not play anymore tournaments for the rest of the year and just work on his entire game. I smell another 2009-esque WTF performance from Nadal with the way things are going. I can assure you it will not be pretty.
I can't see him having the same result as the 2009 WTF. That year he didn't win a single set, let alone a match. He can't get any worse than that.
Forehand Avenger
Banned
Yes, and Roger complained afterwards that what Djoker did (go for a desperate winner) wasn't something he would have done. That's part of the problem. Roger hasn't been up to par mentally (as hasn't Nadal) this past year against Djoker.
so the question remains. if calling it out and threatening with point losses works then why dont they do it?
i mean the rule is there, the rule is clear. its very simple. if they want this endless discussion to end they have to either drop the rule or keep it but then just have every umpire apply it properly in every match. just chose either way and go through with it. problem solved.
footfaulting is on its way to becoming a similar issue i think. and thats only because people just arent strict with it. you see more and more people whos every other serve youd have to seriously consider calling a footfault. but how does that develop? its cause altho the rule is very clear its just not applied properly. so ppl start to slowly go over the edge of whats allowed in their service motions since no one calls it fault. if theyd just call it every time the players wouldnt do that because it would just be stupid to risk losing points like that. so theyd rather give their feet 1-2 mm more air. but they dont. and then all of a sudden you go the tiny bit too far and get a footfault call on matchpoint, go crazy all over it and kim clijsters wins the us open :/
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
I am a Novak fan, however a Novak fan call Nadal on anything is moronic at best.
Finally...some logic! :wink:
DjokovicForTheWin
Banned
Nah, you're no Novak fan, you're just another ********* jumping ship.
No one knows what you are for sure, since you say things that are nonsensical.
Like Nadal about euros.... Novak has his residency in Monaco because of the low tax rates. So does Caroline Wozniacki..... Tsonga and Monfils have their's in Switzerland that it also has low tax rates. So don't call Rafa out for keeping residency in his country with it's tax rates, that no non Spaniard calls their residency, where as Novak does claim residency in Monaco, while having businesses in Serbia. No doubt the bulk of his income is attributed to his Monaco address.
Big_Dangerous
Talk Tennis Guru
Forehand Avenger
Banned
You are wasting your breath with this one I'm afraid. There is no reasoning that will make any difference.
frankly I find the whole taking an age between points and bouncing the ball endless times extremely boring and frankly puts me off watching the sport, it has got progressively worse and I think puts a lot of people off watching the sport. Might even explain the lower viewing figures that tennis gets these days
who is doing it etc I could not care less just that it has to be sorted, it is not Nadal's or Djoker's fault because if a rule is not enforced properly then it becomes a 'non-rule'
they should dock a point or two, that would sort it our immediately but they don't so I blame the officlas and umpires
who is doing it etc I could not care less just that it has to be sorted, it is not Nadal's or Djoker's fault because if a rule is not enforced properly then it becomes a 'non-rule'
they should dock a point or two, that would sort it our immediately but they don't so I blame the officlas and umpires
abmk
Bionic Poster
yes, he did get some help from roger on the 2nd point. fed went for a bit too much, it clipped the net and went out.
he also DFed on BP to hand the break back
Last year was more about Novak saving those MPs with daring forehands, and it was on Novak's serve.
This time it was on fed's serve and Novak had some luck.
W
woodrow1029
Guest
There was not a foot fault called on match point in that match.
CDestroyer
Professional
Wow they really cleaned house lately. Some trolls got popped.
ok well.. technically the footfault wasnt on match point but it gave match point and then the penalty point against serena ended it. but still.. ;P
W
woodrow1029
Guest
That also was not the first foot fault called on her in that match, or in the tournament.
Additionally, Serena has been called for many foot faults in her career. I have called several on her.
tenniselbow1
Rookie
His most disgusting move this year was the medical time out at Wimbi prior to the 3rd set tiebreak against Delpo in my opinion. Totally throwing off an opponent's rhythm is what he does best. He did it against another player in Wimbi 2010. He'll use every tactic imaginable to try to win a match and it needs to be stopped. Point violations need to be handed out to this cheat, and the ATP are definitely who is to blame for this. He's getting spanked/owned now like no tomorrow, so not to concerned what the cheater does at this point
W
woodrow1029
Guest
His most disgusting move this year was the medical time out at Wimbi prior to the 3rd set tiebreak against Delpo in my opinion. Totally throwing off an opponent's rhythm is what he does best. He did it against another player in Wimbi 2010. He'll use every tactic imaginable to try to win a match and it needs to be stopped. Point violations need to be handed out to this cheat, and the ATP are definitely who is to blame for this. He's getting spanked/owned now like no tomorrow, so not to concerned what the cheater does at this point
So the ATP is responsible for him taking a medical timeout within the rules at a non-ATP event? How do you figure that one?
angler
Rookie
I am with you on this one. Thou, using expression "Djoker" for a player, doesn't sounds right.
So true. I'm sure Novak would himself be disgusted reading how his "fans" defend him insulting others. This is not his way and surely not the way he would like or agree on. Novak is great guy, great player, one that already earned his place in tennis history and doesn't need such supporters. Worshiping a player is OK, but insulting others is not a way to stand by your player. By posting so ironical on others you are not helping his profile. On the contrary! Instead, be like Novak, be correct and respect others.
Just to be fair, the same may be applied for many of Nadal/Fed fans cruising this forum. Sad it is so. Fans are, in huge number, far bellow the level their faves are.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
You're a brave man! :wink:
woodrow1029 is not afraid of a ball shove down his throat.
chrischris
G.O.A.T.
He is breaking the rules and in doing so the balls of the opponent and the viewers. It stinks.
Crisstti
Legend
His most disgusting move this year was the medical time out at Wimbi prior to the 3rd set tiebreak against Delpo in my opinion. Totally throwing off an opponent's rhythm is what he does best. He did it against another player in Wimbi 2010. He'll use every tactic imaginable to try to win a match and it needs to be stopped. Point violations need to be handed out to this cheat, and the ATP are definitely who is to blame for this. He's getting spanked/owned now like no tomorrow, so not to concerned what the cheater does at this point
Once again, someone showing how all of this "Nadal uses gamesmanship/fakes injuries to throw opponents off their rhythm" is complete BS.
Clarky21
Banned
His most disgusting move this year was the medical time out at Wimbi prior to the 3rd set tiebreak against Delpo in my opinion. Totally throwing off an opponent's rhythm is what he does best. He did it against another player in Wimbi 2010. He'll use every tactic imaginable to try to win a match and it needs to be stopped. Point violations need to be handed out to this cheat, and the ATP are definitely who is to blame for this. He's getting spanked/owned now like no tomorrow, so not to concerned what the cheater does at this point
Come on,dude. Why would Nadal fake an injury right after hitting a fantastic fhdlt to set up not only break point,but set point? He would have purposefully killed his own momentum by faking an injury at that moment. He also must have loved the fact that faking that injury also caused to him to get into a 0-3 hole in the tie break before Delpo choked,and handed him the set. It was clear Nadal was not faking that injury. It was written all over his face.
vernonbc
Legend
Boy, you really know what you're talking about. It was Delpo that took the medical time out in the third set at Wimbledon. :roll:
i think he has been using it tactically at times. i remember the wimbledon 2010 match against petzschner and all the time outs really seemed to come when petzschner had a good rhythm especially on his serve.
but he didnt violate any rules. you cant blame him for trying everything he can to win a close match. its tough for the opponent but as long as its by the rules its part of the game and you have to try to adapt to it. just like you have to live with rain delays or other stuff that can break your rhythm.
bottom line is nadal didnt do anything that violated the rules there.
but he didnt violate any rules. you cant blame him for trying everything he can to win a close match. its tough for the opponent but as long as its by the rules its part of the game and you have to try to adapt to it. just like you have to live with rain delays or other stuff that can break your rhythm.
bottom line is nadal didnt do anything that violated the rules there.
gamesmanship does not equate to violation, but it does have an advantage over the other player.
Remember in soccer, a referee can issue a yellow card to the player trying to fake a foul(or injury) by diving into the ground when wasn't even been touch. That is gamesmanship thus trying to gain an advantage for his team. They try to prevent all of these faking foul/injury in soccer by punishing them. Maybe if tennis start punishing players for faking injury then players will think twice, thus cutting down gamesmanship.
Remember in soccer, a referee can issue a yellow card to the player trying to fake a foul(or injury) by diving into the ground when wasn't even been touch. That is gamesmanship thus trying to gain an advantage for his team. They try to prevent all of these faking foul/injury in soccer by punishing them. Maybe if tennis start punishing players for faking injury then players will think twice, thus cutting down gamesmanship.
that is not the same thing. diving is against the rules because it is considered cheating and thus punished by a yellow card.
calling a medical time out in tennis is NOT against the rules. no matter during which situation in a match it is called. it is not against any rule and so it is not to be punished
youd have to put up a new rule that prevents players from taking medical time outs if there is doubt about if its a real medical problem. but who would you suppose to make that call? who is to decide if a player is faking an injury? youre not in the other persons body so you cant know for sure if he really has a physical problem or not.
this rule would be impossible to carry out properly
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tenniselbow1
Rookie
It was the first set tiebreak. delpo was pissed off as were many people. Two years in a row with these tactics for the cheater as I mentioned earlier. Of note Momentum was clearly on Delpo's side prior to that tiebreak
vernonbc
Legend
So why did you say it was the third set? And why would you or anyone be pissed off when Rafa was obviously injured? Momentum was clearly on Delpo's side? Revisionist history. They were on serve, Delpo was trying to get it to a tie break, and Rafa had set point at 30-40 when he was injured.
Why aren't people just as outraged at Delpo's MTO? Rafa was up 40-15 so did he clearly have momentum. Delpo was off court every bit as long as Rafa was so was Delpo cheating too?
This cheating nonsense is just that - nonsense. Pro tennis at its highest level imposes immense strain on the body and it's surprising there aren't more injuries. If an MTO can mitigate the injury enough to get the player back out on the court so they can continue playing fantastic, crowd pleasing tennis, then it's a reasonable conclusion that MTO's are a good thing.
What's with all this Nadal apologism again? And all its irrelevant arguments like what happened in the scoreline after the MTO; or like dragging the Del Potro MTO into it, which is probably not entirely justified either, but was no doubt partly done in revenge - and the man doesn't have a history like Nadal, of course.
The Wimbledon case was pure gamesmanship, and there are no two ways about it. Intimidation was only a factor in this; what happened was that Nadal took abuse of and 'bended' the rules to ask for an MTO when clearly there was no grounds for one. Before woodrow comes charging in, yes, everything was within the rules - because the officials then made it legitimate (because they didn't have any other choice, did they - with the number 1 asking for it at a GS match - hence the phrase 'bending the rules').
He may have put his foot in the wrong place, but was not injured - and there were no physical grounds for the MTO: the hypochondriac Nadal wanted to put his mind straight again. Intimidation was perhaps a welcome plus.
Oh, and how can we know it was not a legitimate 'MTO to ask', again? 1) The kine already had something like, it shouldn't hurt there; 2) He ran around fresh as a daisy for the rest of the match (to the extent that even the commentators - normally never allowed to raise suspicion - commented upon it); and 3) Nadal's camp said literally it was nothing - there was even nothing to see on a scan.
Hence, no legitimate reason to ask for an MTO. Hence, gamesmanship (at a crucial point in the match).
Nadal is a great player, but there are limits where you can take your fanboyism; and I draw the line, just like should be done with any other player, at all his gamesmanship with MTOs and other time issues. It's not like you cannot be a fan of the man's style even if you are critical of certain aspects.
The Wimbledon case was pure gamesmanship, and there are no two ways about it. Intimidation was only a factor in this; what happened was that Nadal took abuse of and 'bended' the rules to ask for an MTO when clearly there was no grounds for one. Before woodrow comes charging in, yes, everything was within the rules - because the officials then made it legitimate (because they didn't have any other choice, did they - with the number 1 asking for it at a GS match - hence the phrase 'bending the rules').
He may have put his foot in the wrong place, but was not injured - and there were no physical grounds for the MTO: the hypochondriac Nadal wanted to put his mind straight again. Intimidation was perhaps a welcome plus.
Oh, and how can we know it was not a legitimate 'MTO to ask', again? 1) The kine already had something like, it shouldn't hurt there; 2) He ran around fresh as a daisy for the rest of the match (to the extent that even the commentators - normally never allowed to raise suspicion - commented upon it); and 3) Nadal's camp said literally it was nothing - there was even nothing to see on a scan.
Hence, no legitimate reason to ask for an MTO. Hence, gamesmanship (at a crucial point in the match).
Nadal is a great player, but there are limits where you can take your fanboyism; and I draw the line, just like should be done with any other player, at all his gamesmanship with MTOs and other time issues. It's not like you cannot be a fan of the man's style even if you are critical of certain aspects.
vernonbc
Legend
I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply to someone who is so irrational but two things:
(1) you obviously don't know tennis history because Delpo is one of the most injured players on tour, and I'm not just talking about his serious wrist injury. From the day he started playing on tour he has been besieged with injuries and if they kept track of MTO's he'd be near the top of the list. He has missed, withdrawn, retired, skipped more tournaments than anyone his age.
And (2) Rafa was injured. Again, if you knew your tennis history, you'd know that he has a congenital problem in his left foot that nearly derailed his tennis career completely when he was 19 years old and which has caused him grief to this day and he often has to have his foot numbed with a shot to enable him to play without pain. He was unable to practice for several weeks after Wimbledon due to the injury. Nadal's camp didn't say there was nothing on the scan - they said there was no break, but the doctor said there was swelling and inflammation which are the normal signs of injury.
namelessone
Legend
Same false points brought over and over again.
We are supposed to believe that Nadal would fake a leg problem(even going so far as to grimace upon landing on his foot after earning that SP with a monster forehand), preferring to take the set to a tiebreak and go down 3-0 in the tie to delpo. This all just to get into delpo's head instead of actually focusing on that one point(the SP he earned) and winning the set. Seems overtly complicated.
And as it has said a gazzilion times, you don't actually have to limp to the bench and come out as superman for your injury to be a valid one. Not to mention that most MTO's don't deal with major injuries, they are a way for the player to get some professional analysis and treatment on the spot for MINOR PROBLEMS, you know, the ones that can be fixed in that 5 minute window they have for treatment. If it is a MAJOR problem, the player knows right away and he will retire from the match most times in this scenario.
Relying on the scan as evidence for Nadal's "gamesmanship" is pretty weak, it proves what I said, that the inconvenience for Nadal was minor but the player in question felt it bad enough at the moment to take a MTO. Do you think that every MTO needs a scan of some sort to make it legitimate?
And since Nadal uses MTO's as tactics(and Nadal's MTO's are so famous), I would like to ask you the same thing I've asked of other proponents of this theory:
how many MTO's did Nadal take in 2011? He already has 13 defeats or something like that so according to the "Nadal takes MTO's when in a losing position/crucial moments in matches" logic, he should EASILY have 13 fake MTO's right now.
Or let's say, how many MTO's did Nadal take in slams this year(easier question)? Nadal had his share of close calls/defeats(isner match, being 5-1 to Andujar in a set, being 2-5 in the first set against Federer and losing the third set after being rebroken, DelPo match in WB, Djokovic final in WB, Golubev match in USO, Djokovic final in USO) in the 25 or so matches he's played in slams this year so you would expect MTO's left and right(at least 5).
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