Nadal 'bending rules again'

[fms]

I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply to someone who is so irrational but two things:
(1) you obviously don't know tennis history because Delpo is one of the most injured players on tour, and I'm not just talking about his serious wrist injury. From the day he started playing on tour he has been besieged with injuries and if they kept track of MTO's he'd be near the top of the list. He has missed, withdrawn, retired, skipped more tournaments than anyone his age.

Once again, completely irrelevant. If it was cheating, then it's as despicable as the Nadal case. But there's not enough evidence with Del Potro, probably. And even if it was as much cheating as the Nadal case, you can't fault someone who's pulling just the same crap as the other guy did before. And before that other Nadal fan comes to your rescue - the whole argument of statistically listing every MTO with Nadal and other guys on tour is also entirely irrelevant. It's the critical moments in which Nadal does this, and does this repeatedly. I really have a hard time believing how Nadal's fans are even after all these years still in denial. There's no doubt about the man's great achievements, but there's no shame in acknowledging that he goes to extra lengths for a couple of those achievements.

And (2) Rafa was injured. Again, if you knew your tennis history, you'd know that he has a congenital problem in his left foot that nearly derailed his tennis career completely when he was 19 years old and which has caused him grief to this day and he often has to have his foot numbed with a shot to enable him to play without pain. He was unable to practice for several weeks after Wimbledon due to the injury. Nadal's camp didn't say there was nothing on the scan - they said there was no break, but the doctor said there was swelling and inflammation which are the normal signs of injury.

No, it was repeatedly said it was nothing, and certainly no injury. I can't remember the details, but I do know that anything on swelling and inflammation was either the normal state of Nadal's foot (as he takes shots before each match or something), or something that was not a physical ground for an MTO (read the requirements again).

 

[fms]

This all just to get into delpo's head

No. Just read the post again.

the inconvenience for Nadal was minor but the player in question felt it bad enough at the moment to take a MTO.

Exactly, thank you. The inconvenience was not of such a physical nature to warrant a legitimate MTO before a tie-break.

 

[namelessone]

the whole argument of statistically listing every MTO with Nadal and other guys on tour is also entirely irrelevant. It's the critical moments in which Nadal does this, and does this repeatedly. I

How is it irrelevant? If your theory is that Nadal does these MTO's REPEATEDLY, you need to prove what the hell repeatedly means and with FACTS, in this case MTO's in crucial moments of matches. You can't pick and choose the few moments when Nadal takes MTO's(a shocker, a guy renowed for his physical style might feel some pain and ask for a doc on the court) and make it a freaking axiom.

The 13 matches that Nadal lost this year(not to mention other tight ones that he won) all had their crucial moments. Nadal SHOULD have taken a MTO in each and every one of them, right? Since he REPEATEDLY does this, no?

 

[namelessone]

No. Just read the post again.

I did. What's easier for Nadal(if we are going on the premise that he was fine and dandy at the moment he gets SP)?

Focus on the SP situation and try to take the set.

Act like you are injured the moment you get the SP, blow the SP away, take a MTO, get behind 0-3 in the tiebreak, then come back to win the set since DelPo has obviously succombed to your mind games.

Exactly, thank you. The inconvenience was not of such a physical nature to warrant a legitimate MTO before a tie-break.

No, it wasn't major(as in muscle or tendon tears), but not all MTO's are taken for major things, in fact most of them are taken for small things that might affect your performance in the match. But try harder next time with the trolling.

 

[fms]

I still haven't seen any valid argument countering the obvious evidence that it was gamesmanship to ask for an MTO.

But I would love to see you guys defending the Wimbledon 2010 case as well.

(PS: with critical moments, I obviously mean critical moments in critical matches, mostly in grand slams. I doubt Nadal is going to pull this in a 250 tournament.)

(PS 2:

I did. [...] if we are going on the premise that he was fine and dandy at the moment he gets SP?

You clearly didn't.)

 

[tenniselbow1]

So why did you say it was the third set? And why would you or anyone be pissed off when Rafa was obviously injured? Momentum was clearly on Delpo's side? Revisionist history. They were on serve, Delpo was trying to get it to a tie break, and Rafa had set point at 30-40 when he was injured.

Why aren't people just as outraged at Delpo's MTO? Rafa was up 40-15 so did he clearly have momentum. Delpo was off court every bit as long as Rafa was so was Delpo cheating too?

This cheating nonsense is just that - nonsense. Pro tennis at its highest level imposes immense strain on the body and it's surprising there aren't more injuries. If an MTO can mitigate the injury enough to get the player back out on the court so they can continue playing fantastic, crowd pleasing tennis, then it's a reasonable conclusion that MTO's are a good thing.

Clear shift in momentum in how the match was played out, dynamics of the points etc. Watch it again, the MTO is completely bogus, classic Rafa. This is what he does time in and time out. When Rafa is pressured or not comfortable as to how things are playing out, a mosquito bite is enough to disrupt his rhythm. He demands a certain element of control at will and in doing so affects another players game. This is as close to cheating as you can get, bending the rules to the extreme. Delpo was furious even after the tiebreak was concluded over the MTO, as i'm sure many thousands were. An eerie silence developed after the set in the stands and with the commentators. Rafa was "clearly injured" ? Are you kidding me? Those words should never be used together, in the same sentence. Have you even seen the 2010 match people are referencing here? He did the exact same crap, problem here was he did it against a marque player in Delpo which in my view takes guts. We could have a whole new thread on this so called "clearly injureed" topic with Rafa's history. Delpo who is 6-6 , took an obvious bad spill on his hip, and needed to adjust when he took his time out.

 

[JSummers]

Isn't it the Shanghai "ROLEX" masters? The clock is supposed to be measured by Rolex timepieces and more strictly enforced, no?

 

[Magnus]

Seriously, even Nadal fans have come to realize how their hero acts. Nadal has always been a cheater, and will keep being one as long as umpires are letting him. One point penalty on SP or BP and Nadal will be much, much faster. But all are afraid of the bully.

 

[TMF]

*******s should be the ones to decide whether an injury is legit or not, or if a player is really in pain. They always know better, no?

No, the umpire should. In every sports, there's always involved with gamesmanship. Unfortunately umpire/referee are human and the players sometime can fool them and some get caught. Give you an examples of gamesmanship that a player help him and his team....

A baseball batter pretend that he got hit by a pitcher so he can be awarded to 1st base. They pretend to get hurt so the home plate umpire believe that they got hit. Gamesmanship !

A basketball player flop when there's hardly any contact. The flop is to try to sell the referee the opposing player foul him. Offensive and defensive, many of them get away with it. Gamesmanship !

A tennis players usually call MTO when he's either down or when the opposing player is in a hot streak. One way to weather the storm is delay the match, taking the momentum away, causes a let down, etc. The problem is tennis umpire doesn't do anything despite he/she knows the injury is BS. Gamesmanship !

I've already mentioned about soccer.

Notice I'm not saying all of these fake acts are violation, but it's gamesmanship, and the sole purpose is trying to gain an edge. I've watched many sports, and tbh, no fans/experts/commentators respect players faking. And it's no secret that many tennis fans don't like Nadal.

 

[purge]

but still all you have as an argument that you think nadal was faking an injury there. but you just cannot prove that. how can you be sure?

in all those examples in other sports you can clearly prove if the players faked or not. maybe the ref cant in that very situation but afterwards in replays and slow-mos and stuff you can see if there was a contact or if the football player just took a dive. you can tell whether the baseball batter got hit or not.

but you can NOT tell if a tennis player has any sort of physical problem that he would like to be taken care of. no umpire could EVER rightfully make that call and say "dude, youre not fooling me, youre just taking this time out because youre 2-5 down in this set."

this wont work

 

[TMF]

And since Nadal uses MTO's as tactics(and Nadal's MTO's are so famous), I would like to ask you the same thing I've asked of other proponents of this theory:
how many MTO's did Nadal take in 2011? He already has 13 defeats or something like that so according to the "Nadal takes MTO's when in a losing position/crucial moments in matches" logic, he should EASILY have 13 fake MTO's right now.

Or let's say, how many MTO's did Nadal take in slams this year(easier question)? Nadal had his share of close calls/defeats(isner match, being 5-1 to Andujar in a set, being 2-5 in the first set against Federer and losing the third set after being rebroken, DelPo match in WB, Djokovic final in WB, Golubev match in USO, Djokovic final in USO) in the 25 or so matches he's played in slams this year so you would expect MTO's left and right(at least 5).

A player don't have to be consistently taking MTO to be question about his sincere. Nadal has done sufficiently enough for fans to believe he's faking. Notice Henin retired in 2007 AO final b/c of her stomach pain, but she get accused all the time for her faking an injury. And her history of calling MTO isn't even remotely close to Nadal. We have gave Nadal the benefit of the doubt, but his MTO 2010 W incident makes no sense, and he lost many fans' trust. Just b/c you claimed he's clean in 2011 doesn't erase all of his past years. Capiche ?

 

[CDestroyer]

He is not taking MTO's anymore because he knows it still wont save him from Novak of Serbia and others.

You can see the hopeless look on Nadals face. Defeated.

 

[TMF]

but still all you have as an argument that you think nadal was faking an injury there. but you just cannot prove that. how can you be sure?

in all those examples in other sports you can clearly prove if the players faked or not. maybe the ref cant in that very situation but afterwards in replays and slow-mos and stuff you can see if there was a contact or if the football player just took a dive. you can tell whether the baseball batter got hit or not.

but you can NOT tell if a tennis player has any sort of physical problem that he would like to be taken care of. no umpire could EVER rightfully make that call and say "dude, youre not fooling me, youre just taking this time out because youre 2-5 down in this set."

this wont work

But how could a player played even better, move better after the MTO ? As much as PMAC respect Nadal, he even suspect nadal's MTO in 2010, not just the fans. You don't have to read one's mind, but pay attention to details and that should give you a clue that a player isn't sincere. The same thing happened to Fed in Hamburg, where Nadal called the MTO after getting owned in the early match, but after the MTO, he was playing god mode tennis. Injury should hindered your movement and playing level, not the opposite.

Remember 2008 NBA champion final Paul Pierce was carried off court b/c of his injury? He return later in the game and play like an MVP. No fans believe he was injured except he was faking. Again, it doesn't take a person to read someone's mind, but his action afterward should give you the answer. Capiche ?

 

[CMM]

No, the umpire should. In every sports, there's always involved with gamesmanship. Unfortunately umpire/referee are human and the players sometime can fool them and some get caught. Give you an examples of gamesmanship that a player help him and his team....

A baseball batter pretend that he got hit by a pitcher so he can be awarded to 1st base. They pretend to get hurt so the home plate umpire believe that they got hit. Gamesmanship !

A basketball player flop when there's hardly any contact. The flop is to try to sell the referee the opposing player foul him. Offensive and defensive, many of them get away with it. Gamesmanship !

A tennis players usually call MTO when he's either down or when the opposing player is in a hot streak. One way to weather the storm is delay the match, taking the momentum away, causes a let down, etc. The problem is tennis umpire doesn't do anything despite he/she knows the injury is BS. Gamesmanship !

I've already mentioned about soccer.

Notice I'm not saying all of these fake acts are violation, but it's gamesmanship, and the sole purpose is trying to gain an edge. I've watched many sports, and tbh, no fans/experts/commentators respect players faking. And it's no secret that many tennis fans don't like Nadal.

LOL. Angry much? What you're saying makes no sense. The umpire can't decide whether a player is feeling pain or not. If the player starts playing and moving better after the MTO then it means the doctor/trainer did his job right.

 

[CDestroyer]

Nadal is an obnoxious cheater. Everyone know this.

 

[Wolfman Jack]

Nobody in the ATP tour ever complained that Nadal "stole" his trophy by cheating. The only people to ever complain about this are angry ****s.

Here is the way things work:
- Rules exist.
- Players play.
- Judges enforce the rules.

Nadal and many others get penalties every once in a while. If you don't like the way the rules are enforced send a letter to the ATP.

In other words, everybody is subject to the same rules, and it's the judge's responsibility to enforce them.

 

[Diagoras]

Nobody in the ATP tour ever complained that Nadal "stole" his trophy by cheating. The only people to ever complain about this are angry ****s.

Here is the way things work:
- Rules exist.
- Players play.
- Judges enforce the rules.

Nadal and many others get penalties every once in a while. If you don't like the way the rules are enforced send a letter to the ATP.

In other words, everybody is subject to the same rules, and it's the judge's responsibility to enforce them.

Watch out. Rational arguments don't seem to be too popular on these boards.

Why people get so worked up over nothing is beyond me. I have quickly come to the impression that most of the people here are bitter, insecure children.

Anyways, thanks for trying to inject some maturity into this thread. Some of us appreciate it.

 

[CDestroyer]

2 brand new users who seem oddly familiar. Bullshilla maybe?

 

[PrinceMoron]

Before long some of these players will not be on Centre or Court 1 at peak times, and the tournaments will be less keen to please them. Having the rules enforced might be a bit of a shock to them.

Incidentally, I saw Navratilova (on a pushbike) being refused admission to Wimbledon, unrecognised and had left her pass at home.

 

[purge]

But how could a player played even better, move better after the MTO ? As much as PMAC respect Nadal, he even suspect nadal's MTO in 2010, not just the fans. You don't have to read one's mind, but pay attention to details and that should give you a clue that a player isn't sincere. The same thing happened to Fed in Hamburg, where Nadal called the MTO after getting owned in the early match, but after the MTO, he was playing god mode tennis. Injury should hindered your movement and playing level, not the opposite.

Remember 2008 NBA champion final Paul Pierce was carried off court b/c of his injury? He return later in the game and play like an MVP. No fans believe he was injured except he was faking. Again, it doesn't take a person to read someone's mind, but his action afterward should give you the answer. Capiche ?

an MTO can be called for alot of things. it doesnt have to be something so severe that you cant even walk or hit anymore. it can even be just somewhat preventive treatment.

again since it is not against the rules it is not cheating. i think petzschner might have won that wimbledon match last year but what nadal did was within the rules and i cant blame him for trying everything thats within the rules to stay in the match.

i do wish they would start to actually enforce the time between points rule however. the rule is there so it should either be applied properly or dropped alltogether. just one penalty point would already be enough to speed nadal and others up im sure.

same with the foot faults. just start calling them consequently and no one will ever foot fault on an important point.
and serena will have only herself to blame for losing matches in the future

 

[Mustard]

Nobody in the ATP tour ever complained that Nadal "stole" his trophy by cheating. The only people to ever complain about this are angry ****s.

Here is the way things work:
- Rules exist.
- Players play.
- Judges enforce the rules.

Nadal and many others get penalties every once in a while. If you don't like the way the rules are enforced send a letter to the ATP.

In other words, everybody is subject to the same rules, and it's the judge's responsibility to enforce them.

Good first post

 

[Polaris]

Nobody in the ATP tour ever complained that Nadal "stole" his trophy by cheating. The only people to ever complain about this are angry ****s.

Here is the way things work:
- Rules exist.
- Players play.
- Judges enforce the rules.

Nadal and many others get penalties every once in a while. If you don't like the way the rules are enforced send a letter to the ATP.

In other words, everybody is subject to the same rules, and it's the judge's responsibility to enforce them.

Very interesting. Your easy familiarity with the language of TW suggests that you are a returning user who was previously banned.

One hole in your argument: You imply that if judges don't enforce the rules, then it is fair for a player to break them, .i.e., if the judges do not discharge their responsibility, a player has no obligation to discharge his. Coz that's just the way things work.

Nice going.

 

[falkenburg]

so the question remains. if calling it out and threatening with point losses works then why dont they do it?

i mean the rule is there, the rule is clear. its very simple. if they want this endless discussion to end they have to either drop the rule or keep it but then just have every umpire apply it properly in every match. just chose either way and go through with it. problem solved.

footfaulting is on its way to becoming a similar issue i think. and thats only because people just arent strict with it. you see more and more people whos every other serve youd have to seriously consider calling a footfault. but how does that develop? its cause altho the rule is very clear its just not applied properly. so ppl start to slowly go over the edge of whats allowed in their service motions since no one calls it fault. if theyd just call it every time the players wouldnt do that because it would just be stupid to risk losing points like that. so theyd rather give their feet 1-2 mm more air. but they dont. and then all of a sudden you go the tiny bit too far and get a footfault call on matchpoint, go crazy all over it and kim clijsters wins the us open :/

Obviously they are reluctant to be defaulting, or even getting close to defaulting, players, let alone top players. McEnroe admitted that he did a lot of the stuff he did because of that very fact, and when he finally DID get defaulted, it was when they had tightened up the rules and he thought he had one more step than he had (and, perhaps not coincidentally, he was no longer the game's top player). In basketball, baseball, or football, one player still leaves several teammates, tennis officials are gutless, by and large, but thankfully that attitude may be changing. Look at their cover up of Agassi's meth use: if a top player, say was caught for juicing, which helps his play, covering THAT up is disgraceful, but at least one could argue they didn't want to taint the game with a player's enhanced performance, but Agassi didn't even use something that could help his tennis, and they STILL couldn't bring themselves to do the right thing and reveal it (and punish him, of course).

 

[falkenburg]

Nobody in the ATP tour ever complained that Nadal "stole" his trophy by cheating. The only people to ever complain about this are angry ****s.

Here is the way things work:
- Rules exist.
- Players play.
- Judges enforce the rules.

Nadal and many others get penalties every once in a while. If you don't like the way the rules are enforced send a letter to the ATP.

In other words, everybody is subject to the same rules, and it's the judge's responsibility to enforce them.

Who are these "many others" that you speak of? If there are ANY other players on the men's tour who have been fined more than once for cheating, like Nadal has, I'm all ears as to who they are.

 

[chrischris]

Rafa should work on Wall St.

 

[RF20Lennon]

this right hear is one of the reasons I HATE NADAL (fantastic player wont take anyting away from him) but such a rule breaker everytime illegal coaching, taking too much time i mean come on why dont the umpires do something!!!!!!!!

 

[Clarky21]

this right hear is one of the reasons I HATE NADAL (fantastic player wont take anyting away from him) but such a rule breaker everytime illegal coaching, taking too much time i mean come on why dont the umpires do something!!!!!!!!

He is not the only one,so why don't the umpires do something about everyone else,too?

And why aren't there threads like this about Cvac,Delpo,Wawrinka,Fish,etc... Why is Nadal the only one singled out for this stuff? Why is he picked on when others do the same things? I've yet to get a solid,reasonable answer to that question anytime it's been asked.

 

[falkenburg]

this right hear is one of the reasons I HATE NADAL (fantastic player wont take anyting away from him) but such a rule breaker everytime illegal coaching, taking too much time i mean come on why dont the umpires do something!!!!!!!!

There are people who think he uses PED, but there is no proof, at least not yet. There are people who think he uses gamesmanship and strategic MTOs, but, again, there is no proof. He is a constant time abuser, and of that, there IS proof, he did so several times, for as much as FIFTY seconds, in his loss a few days ago-but his apologists whine, many people abuse time, which is a)irrelevant and b) untrue, he is the worst in that regard, even worse than Nole. And, the completely bone crushing refutation, he has been fined more than once for illegal coaching, and has ADMITTED to doing so in his autobiography, which not a single one of his apologists that I have noticed will acknowledge. With him being warned for cheating in this year's US Open Final-which I don't recall happening with him in a Slam final before-the overall attitude towards that, hopefully, is changing.

 

[Diagoras]

I don't hate any of the players.

I hate the fans.

 

[Diagoras]

I don't hate any of the players.

I hate the fans.

Oops, wrong thread.

Well, I guess it applies here just as well. ;-)

 

[NamRanger]

Nobody in the ATP tour ever complained that Nadal "stole" his trophy by cheating. The only people to ever complain about this are angry ****s.

Here is the way things work:
- Rules exist.
- Players play.
- Judges enforce the rules.

Nadal and many others get penalties every once in a while. If you don't like the way the rules are enforced send a letter to the ATP.

In other words, everybody is subject to the same rules, and it's the judge's responsibility to enforce them.

So if the ATP/ITF does not enforce their anti-doping policies, it means it is ok to dope? Because your argument is a really, really slippery slope.


Basically, Nadal **** logic is essentially what enabled something terrible like the holocaust to occur. You should be ashamed of yourself really thinking like that. Just because no one enforces the rules properly, doesn't give you or anyone else the right to just violate the rules. It's about giving another human being respect, which obviously Nadal has none of when he steps onto the court against his opponents.

 

[bullfan]

He is not the only one,so why don't the umpires do something about everyone else,too?

And why aren't there threads like this about Cvac,Delpo,Wawrinka,Fish,etc... Why is Nadal the only one singled out for this stuff? Why is he picked on when others do the same things? I've yet to get a solid,reasonable answer to that question anytime it's been asked.

There's different ways that players can be disruptive. FIsh is kinda like his good bud Roddick. I was pretty disgusted by all the tactics that Fish tried against Nadal in their last match.

 

[falkenburg]

So if the ATP/ITF does not enforce their anti-doping policies, it means it is ok to dope? Because your argument is a really, really slippery slope.


Basically, Nadal **** logic is essentially what enabled something terrible like the holocaust to occur. You should be ashamed of yourself really thinking like that. Just because no one enforces the rules properly, doesn't give you or anyone else the right to just violate the rules. It's about giving another human being respect, which obviously Nadal has none of when he steps onto the court against his opponents.

Outstanding post...

 

[Diagoras]

Basically, Nadal **** logic is essentially what enabled something terrible like the holocaust to occur. You should be ashamed of yourself really thinking like that. Just because no one enforces the rules properly, doesn't give you or anyone else the right to just violate the rules. It's about giving another human being respect, which obviously Nadal has none of when he steps onto the court against his opponents.

Likening Nadal defenders to the Holocaust? Really? You didn't stop and think before you posted that? Godwin, anyone?

Look, Nadal may be wrong in taking too much time, but I find this seething hatred against him to be far more disturbing. It seems that a lot of people on here have really let their emotion get in the way of anything even resembling rationality.

Is there some way to block certain sections of this forum from my view? At this point, this Pro Player discussion section just seems like an awful place to visit.

 

[bullfan]

Likening Nadal defenders to the Holocaust? Really? You didn't stop and think before you posted that? Godwin, anyone?

Look, Nadal may be wrong in taking too much time, but I find this seething hatred against him to be far more disturbing. It seems that a lot of people on here have really let their emotion get in the way of anything even resembling rationality.

Is there some way to block certain sections of this forum from my view? At this point, this Pro Player discussion section just seems like an awful place to visit.

Shoot, haven't you realized that any post is disguised as an anti-Nadal post? And that a post about Nadal is just meant as a hater's post against Nadal?

It's pretty laughable.... it's like Nadal is responsible for global warming! It doesn't matter what Nadal does, he's wrong.

 

[Diagoras]

Shoot, haven't you realized that any post is disguised as an anti-Nadal post? And that a post about Nadal is just meant as a hater's post against Nadal?

It's pretty laughable.... it's like Nadal is responsible for global warming! It doesn't matter what Nadal does, he's wrong.

Yeah, I just don't get the extreme hostility.

While I am not a follower of Nadal, he seems to me like the least offensive of the top four. He's really pretty harmless. While I don't care all that much for Fed or Murray, and I certainly don't like Djoker's on-court attitude, I could never imagine devoting so much energy to foaming at the mouth over them. It just seems so unhealthy.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Yeah, I just don't get the extreme hostility.

While I am not a follower of Nadal, he seems to me like the least offensive of the top four. He's really pretty harmless. While I don't care all that much for Fed or Murray, and I certainly don't like Djoker's on-court attitude, I could never imagine devoting so much energy to foaming at the mouth over them. It just seems so unhealthy.

Tell me about it, the hate is STRONG when it comes to Rafa.

 

[kingdaddy41788]

Yeah, I just don't get the extreme hostility.

While I am not a follower of Nadal, he seems to me like the least offensive of the top four. He's really pretty harmless. While I don't care all that much for Fed or Murray, and I certainly don't like Djoker's on-court attitude, I could never imagine devoting so much energy to foaming at the mouth over them. It just seems so unhealthy.

I wouldn't devote any time to hating any of them. But he's not the least offensive of the top four, Fed is. Name one offensive thing Fed has done.

And Nadal isn't the worst either. Has to be Murray or Djoker. They're both asses, but Djokovic at least has some reason to be arrogant.

 

[OTMPut]

Tell me about it, the hate is STRONG when it comes to Rafa.

if it is so prevalent, then it cannot be unusual.
if it is not unusual, it may have some basis. at this stage i get confused.

 

[falkenburg]

It's strange how wrapped up some people are about why and how much other people don't like Nadal-even entering into a thread which a reasonable person could infer was not going to be a positive one about him. All this hand wringing about hostility and having to read those awful things about Widdle ****! I would think that a novel solution to the extreme discomfort of being subjected to such unpleasantness is, don't read such posts, and ESPECIALLY don't enter threads where you're likely to be face such negativity...but that's just me.

 

[Diagoras]

I wouldn't devote any time to hating any of them. But he's not the least offensive of the top four, Fed is. Name one offensive thing Fed has done.

And Nadal isn't the worst either. Has to be Murray or Djoker. They're both asses, but Djokovic at least has some reason to be arrogant.

Yeah, I guess.

Regarding Fed, I didn't care for his USO presser comments about Djoker's return on match point... it was like a Phil Hellmuth moment: criticizing your opponent for how they beat you. I just think he could have been cooler about that, and a few other things in the past.

Still, I can understand that he had a rough day, and it's not that bad in the big picture. You're right, he's not a bad guy.

I would think that a novel solution to the extreme discomfort of being subjected to such unpleasantness is, don't read such posts, and ESPECIALLY don't enter threads that where you're likely to be face such negativity...but that's just me.

Yeah, well I won't bother you much longer, then.

Sorry to briefly get in the way of the hate. My bad.

 

[CMM]

Yeah, I just don't get the extreme hostility.

While I am not a follower of Nadal, he seems to me like the least offensive of the top four. He's really pretty harmless. While I don't care all that much for Fed or Murray, and I certainly don't like Djoker's on-court attitude, I could never imagine devoting so much energy to foaming at the mouth over them. It just seems so unhealthy.

Some of the Federer fans are really obsessed with Rafa. And if there's already a lot of hate now, I don't even want to imagine how they would react if Rafa would get close to 16 Slams.

 

[purge]

So if the ATP/ITF does not enforce their anti-doping policies, it means it is ok to dope? Because your argument is a really, really slippery slope.


Basically, Nadal **** logic is essentially what enabled something terrible like the holocaust to occur. You should be ashamed of yourself really thinking like that. Just because no one enforces the rules properly, doesn't give you or anyone else the right to just violate the rules. It's about giving another human being respect, which obviously Nadal has none of when he steps onto the court against his opponents.

wow.. talk about going way out of line there man

back on tooic:
obviously anyone who comes here will have to try and differ between the people who just try to make their idol look good against any odds and in turn bash his rival at every possible chance (no matter if theyre fed, rafa, or djoker fans) and those who actually try to discuss relevant things.

for me the constant violation of an existing rule (time between points) IS a relevant thing id like to discuss and not just because its nadal who excels at it and im a federer fan myself.

someone just asked woodrow about this in his own thread and im curious to see what his response will be like as to why the rule just isnt being applied the way it should be and nadal or djokovic have never gotten penalty points for ignoring this rule.

 

[falkenburg]

Originally Posted by falkenburg View Post
I would think that a novel solution to the extreme discomfort of being subjected to such unpleasantness is, don't read such posts, and ESPECIALLY don't enter threads that where you're likely to be face such negativity...but that's just me.


Yeah, well I won't bother you much longer, then.

Sorry to briefly get in the way of the hate. My bad.[/QUOTE]

It's no bother, it's just kinda strange, you mention you "... could never imagine devoting so much energy to foaming at the mouth over them. It just seems so unhealthy." "Foaming at the mouth" is a bit melodramatic, no? And for such an advocate of energy conservation, who is "briefly" getting in the way, you'd piled up 7 posts in this thread, which you went out of your way to enter despite presumably knowing it wasn't likely to be a Nadal lovefest. You've defended him and/or questioned people who don't like him, not to mention saying you don't understand the degree of dislike for him. I suspect you simply don't WANT to understand, some people simply don't like inveterate cheaters, what's so hard to understand about that?

 

[diggler]

What other sport has athletes running and hitting a ball with such intensity for 20 stroke rallies and then expects them to do it all again 20 seconds later? Then last for 4 hours. Then do it 6 more times to win a tournament. Then get complained about by guys who wouldn't last 5 minutes out there.

(To be fair, boxing and MMA are more physically intense and ironman triathlon is pretty brutal.)

 

[Wolfman Jack]

Watch out. Rational arguments don't seem to be too popular on these boards.

Why people get so worked up over nothing is beyond me. I have quickly come to the impression that most of the people here are bitter, insecure children.

Anyways, thanks for trying to inject some maturity into this thread. Some of us appreciate it.

Thank you, I appreciate your words.

It's very simple. If you don't like Nadal, you are predisposed to find fault with anything he does (from his bottle arranging ritual, to his celebrations, to his English, to the "cheating".) This thread is just another example of the regularly scheduled "minute of hate" against Nadal.

To me, a few seconds which will never affect the outcome of a match is meaningless. The word cheating is understood far too liberally by the haters. Of course he's "cheating". He's "cheating" in front of thousands of people in a stadium, including ATP officials, former legendary players (often), and a worldwide TV audience. That's some cheating right there.

 

[Wolfman Jack]

Good first post

Thank you, sir.

 

[Wolfman Jack]

Very interesting. Your easy familiarity with the language of TW suggests that you are a returning user who was previously banned.

One hole in your argument: You imply that if judges don't enforce the rules, then it is fair for a player to break them, .i.e., if the judges do not discharge their responsibility, a player has no obligation to discharge his. Coz that's just the way things work.

Nice going.

The time limit is a guideline which is given to ATP officials which is meant as a discretionary rule to ensure the course of a match is not hurdled by extreme pauses between points that might affect the course of the match. Have you heard of any player ever say that Nadal won because of the pauses he took between points? Maybe Koellerer would do that, but otherwise I think taking an extra 10-20 seconds (sometimes, not always) is meaningless.

Can you show me a player who has never, ever exceeded the time limit and prove it?

My point is you don't like this from Nadal because you hate Nadal to start with (as everybody who starts this kind of threads does.) This is a non-issue exacerbated by frustrated ****s, nothing more.

As for your first sentence, if you are saying that I am a banned user, what do you expect to accomplish by the accusation? It looks like a regular ad-hominem fallacy to me.

 

[woodrow1029]

Have you heard of any player ever say that Nadal won because of the pauses he took between points? Maybe Koellerer would do that,

Not anymore. LOL.

 

[woodrow1029]

someone just asked woodrow about this in his own thread and im curious to see what his response will be like as to why the rule just isnt being applied the way it should be and nadal or djokovic have never gotten penalty points for ignoring this rule.

Answered..