Nadal 'bending rules again'

diggler said:
What other sport has athletes running and hitting a ball with such intensity for 20 stroke rallies and then expects them to do it all again 20 seconds later? Then last for 4 hours. Then do it 6 more times to win a tournament. Then get complained about by guys who wouldn't last 5 minutes out there.

(To be fair, boxing and MMA are more physically intense and ironman triathlon is pretty brutal.)
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sorry but thats completely irrelevant here.
any kind of sport is played by certain rules and the rules have to be applied.
in tennis there is a rule that states how long a player can take to catch his breath or do whatever between 2 serves. and he has to follow that rule. and if that means he cannot fully regain his breath after an extremely tiring rally before going into the next one then that is part of the game. thats the price you pay for hitting that exgausting rally before. and if the other player recovers from it in time and you dont then he deserves to have that advantage over you. those are the rules

by your argument a defender in football should have a right to say "no man, this aint cool, that goal doesnt count cause i just wasnt ready to sprint for that ball.. i mean come on i was just running all the way to the opponents goal for that corner and then all the way back i didnt have time to catch my breath.."
sorry but thats not how it works

or do you want athletes in any sport to be able to just raise a hand when they feel like theyre out of breath so play is suspended until everyone feels like theyre at 100% again and able to continue? then you might as well stop doing sports alltogether.

the rule is there. as long as its there it should be followed. anything else is just a joke
 
Wolfman Jack said:
The second one didn't seem to carry a fine, but that's meaningless. Unless you think that "cheating" is OK as long as you don't get fined by it (which you seem not to, given you hate Nadal's behavior so much.)
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You've got pretty poor reading skills for somebody who is so smug: first of all, you said "many," and that's "many who are fined" but you produced ZERO (the 2nd one dawned on you in this post). Even if Nole had been fined BOTH times, one other player is not "many," see how that works? But he was NOT fined for the first one. The article claims that such violations are usually, but not always, accompanied by a fine, but I don't believe that's accurate. They ANNOUNCE such things(just like they announced that Fed was fined for cursing the ump a few years ago at the Open, and that Serena was fined for this year's, not to mention l'affaire foot fault), which is why I know that Nadal has been fined more than once. Comparing Nole-or anybody else, for that matter-to Nadal when it comes to illegal coaching is absolutely ludicrous: Nadal's cheating is continuous, ongoing, and often referred to by commentators, as happened in this year's US Open, when he was warned yet again-and evidently, he has NOT been fined for that transaction, still more evidence that the article's claim that warnings are "usually" accompanied by a fine is incorrect. Then, there is the crushing refutation that Nadal himself admitted to cheating, something that neither you or any other NNN is eager to address for some strange reason. So, again, use your finger and show me "many" players who have been fined for illegal coaching, instead of breezily-and evasively-deciding what cheating is "meaningless" and what isn't.
 
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Code Violations at Grand Slams ARE usually accompanied by a fine, especially coaching, verbal abuse of an official, and unsportsmanlike.

Racket abuse and ball abuse also often come with a fine as well, but are a bit more discretionary depending on if anyone was hurt/endangered, and other circumstances.
 
woodrow1029 said:
Code Violations at Grand Slams ARE usually accompanied by a fine, especially coaching, verbal abuse of an official, and unsportsmanlike.

Racket abuse and ball abuse also often come with a fine as well, but are a bit more discretionary depending on if anyone was hurt/endangered, and other circumstances.
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The number of fines that I've heard or read about is miniscule compared to the number of code violations I've heard or seen, so that statement would seem to be in dispute, but what is NOT in dispute is that Nadal has been fined more than once for illegal coaching, was warned for it in this year's US Open, and has admitted to cheating during the 2010 US Open as well.
 
falkenburg said:
The number of fines that I've heard or read about is miniscule compared to the number of code violations I've heard or seen, so that statement would seem to be in dispute, but what is NOT in dispute is that Nadal has been fined more than once for illegal coaching, was warned for it in this year's US Open, and has admitted to cheating during the 2010 US Open as well.
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Believe me, you have not heard or read about anywhere near close to the number of fines that are handed out. The statement is not in dispute.
 
Clarky21 said:
He is not the only one,so why don't the umpires do something about everyone else,too?

And why aren't there threads like this about Cvac,Delpo,Wawrinka,Fish,etc... Why is Nadal the only one singled out for this stuff? Why is he picked on when others do the same things? I've yet to get a solid,reasonable answer to that question anytime it's been asked.
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He is picked on because he takes much more time than all of the other players consistently. He is the worst offender and abuses the rule the most.
 
woodrow1029 said:
Believe me, you have not heard or read about anywhere near close to the number of fines that are handed out. The statement is not in dispute.
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And you know this how? And, even if you DID have some "inside source," what's the point? That everybody cheats but only poor Widdle Waffa gets publicly fined for it because they want to make an example out of him?
 
falkenburg said:
And you know this how? And, even if you DID have some "inside source," what's the point? That everybody cheats but only poor Widdle Waffa gets publicly fined for it because they want to make an example out of him?
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First of all, Rafa is not the only one that gets publicly fined. Secondly, when one of the higher profile players do something that warrants a fine, yes you will hear more about it than if someone outside of the top 20 or so does something, first maybe to try to set an example, secondly because it makes for better news.

How do I know this? Oh that's right, you are a new user, so you think you can come on here and make those stupid kind of childish comments without knowing anything about the people that you are talking to because it's so easy to act like a child behind a computer screen isn't it?

Believe me, I know which kind of code violations are going to carry a higher likelihood of a fine than others. And at the Grand Slams, there are not many code violations at all that are not fined. At the tour events and challengers, more are let go without a fine, but coaching, verbal abuse and unsportsmanlike conduct ALWAYS get fined.

And I'm not going to tell you how I have an inside source other than to say I am my own inside source. You can figure it out if you want to go back and read about my inside source.
 
woodrow1029 said:
First of all, Rafa is not the only one that gets publicly fined. Secondly, when one of the higher profile players do something that warrants a fine, yes you will hear more about it than if someone outside of the top 20 or so does something, first maybe to try to set an example, secondly because it makes for better news.

How do I know this? Oh that's right, you are a new user, so you think you can come on here and make those stupid kind of childish comments without knowing anything about the people that you are talking to because it's so easy to act like a child behind a computer screen isn't it?

Believe me, I know which kind of code violations are going to carry a higher likelihood of a fine than others. And at the Grand Slams, there are not many code violations at all that are not fined. At the tour events and challengers, more are let go without a fine, but coaching, verbal abuse and unsportsmanlike conduct ALWAYS get fined.

And I'm not going to tell you how I have an inside source other than to say I am my own inside source. You can figure it out if you want to go back and read about my inside source.
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"First of all, Rafa is not the only one that gets publicly fined." Ok, so what other player has been fined more than once for illegal coaching? I've asked that question repeatedly, and always been met with stony silence, for reasons that are obvious. It's awfully convenient to say lots of players get fined for something with no proof, and, heaven forbid that somebody on an internet forum makes a claim that isn't true, right? It is, indeed easy to act like a child from behind a computer screen; it's also easy to act like a Big Shot from behind one, as well: you know, I make beaucoup bucks, I got a yacht, on which I service 3 or 4 super models per night, every night, all night long, and, oh, yes, I have "inside sources" who know about players on Secret Double Probation in the ATP. So, in response to your kind request to "Believe me," no, I don't think I will.
 
falkenburg said:
"First of all, Rafa is not the only one that gets publicly fined." Ok, so what other player has been fined more than once for illegal coaching? I've asked that question repeatedly, and always been met with stony silence, for reasons that are obvious. It's awfully convenient to say lots of players get fined for something with no proof, and, heaven forbid that somebody on an internet forum makes a claim that isn't true, right? It is, indeed easy to act like a child from behind a computer screen; it's also easy to act like a Big Shot from behind one, as well: you know, I make beaucoup bucks, I got a yacht, on which I service 3 or 4 super models per night, every night, all night long, and, oh, yes, I have "inside sources" who know about players on Secret Double Probation in the ATP. So, in response to your kind request to "Believe me," no, I don't think I will.
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Gaudio, Coria, Hingis, Sharapova. There are 4 off the top of my head. Both Lapentti's. There's another 2.
 
woodrow1029 said:
Gaudio, Coria, Hingis, Sharapova. There are 4 off the top of my head. Both Lapentti's. There's another 2.
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When I brought all this up, I SPECIFICALLY said, "the men's tour." Why, then,are you bringing up members of the ATP????????? And, let's look at the men you brought up: Gaudio. Retired. Coria. Retired. Nick Lapenti, Retired. Ahhh, wait, with Giovanni Lapenti, we have a winner:

Lapentti was once again eliminated in the first round of 2006's Pacific Life Open, that time by Mardy Fish.In June 2008 Lapentii won the Manta Open.

Giovanni is currently planning his comeback.


Wow. Good for him, wish him the best of luck. It shows him as # 175 as of 3/21/11, 6 months ago, I assume it's not more up to date because he's "planning his comeback," but, out of curiosity, when were these fines? And, you'll pardon me if I don't believe any behind-closed-door fines that you might bring up.

I didn't think I had to specify this (but, when I say men's tour and you can't even keep that straight, in retrospect, what was I thinking?!?!), but what currently active players on the men's tour have been fined, more than once, for illegal coaching, publicly, other than Rafael Nadal? And, for bonus points, what players (I'll even go for either sex for this one) have publicly admitting cheating during a Grand Slam final?

I await your response with breathless anticipation...
 
falkenburg said:
When I brought all this up, I SPECIFICALLY said, "the men's tour." Why, then,are you bringing up members of the ATP?????????
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Ok, first of all I missed the memo when the members of the ATP World Tour did not play on the men's tour.

99% of fines given in professional tennis are not put in news articles. The people I mentioned in my last response were players that I have personally given code violations for coaching as a chair umpire and know that they were fined.

And the question you asked that I specifically addressed only said, "Ok, so what other player has been fined more than once for illegal coaching?" So, actually, how many times they were specifically fined I don't know. But I know they were fined at least once.
 
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woodrow1029 said:
Ok, first of all I missed the memo when the members of the ATP World Tour did not play on the men's tour.

99% of fines given in professional tennis are not put in news articles. The people I mentioned in my last response were players that I have personally given code violations for coaching as a chair umpire and know that they were fined.

And the question you asked that I specifically addressed only said, "Ok, so what other player has been fined more than once for illegal coaching?" So, actually, how many times they were specifically fined I don't know. But I know they were fined at least once.
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That first sentence was a typo, I meant the WTA, in other words, why would you mention Hingis and Pova when I clearly said "the men's tour?" And, again, I'd thought it was obvious I was talking about current players, but, as they say, anything that CAN be misunderstood, WILL be misunderstood. Even given that, you now say that you know of players-all retired or "planning a comeback"-who were fined "at least once." Do I need to point out that "at least once" is not necessarily more than once? And, if you knew of any CURRENT players who were fined for the offense, I'm guessing you would have mentioned it, so, bottom line, my (amended) statement that no other active players other than Nadal have been fined more than once for illegal coaching is accurate. Factor in the fact that he has been fined only a fraction of the time that he committed the offense-by the numerous times he has been shown or seen being coached, the frequent times commentators openly discuss that he is coached, and, most damningly, the fact that he, himself, has admitted to cheating ,makes all these desperate attempts to dig up other players who may have committed the offense once or "at least once" are pathetic: nobody cheats as often, as brazenly, or with as little consequence-$2,000 dollar fines while playing the final of the US Open, where the winner gets over a million, is a joke-as Butt Picker. But, again, I'd never seen him warned in a Grand Slam final until this year's US Open, so hopefully the spineless officials who run tennis will start to do their do. We can only hope....
 
Some people don't have a life and need to convince themselves of the pathetic nature of other people's lives which, let's face it, is better than they will ever know.

Anybody tell me how many titles Nadal has stolen through cheating, and I'll do my best fo start a website asking for signatures so that that SOB Nadal finally returns the trophy to its rightful owner. LOL.
 
falkenburg said:
That first sentence was a typo, I meant the WTA, in other words, why would you mention Hingis and Pova when I clearly said "the men's tour?" And, again, I'd thought it was obvious I was talking about current players, but, as they say, anything that CAN be misunderstood, WILL be misunderstood. Even given that, you now say that you know of players-all retired or "planning a comeback"-who were fined "at least once." Do I need to point out that "at least once" is not necessarily more than once? And, if you knew of any CURRENT players who were fined for the offense, I'm guessing you would have mentioned it, so, bottom line, my (amended) statement that no other active players other than Nadal have been fined more than once for illegal coaching is accurate. Factor in the fact that he has been fined only a fraction of the time that he committed the offense-by the numerous times he has been shown or seen being coached, the frequent times commentators openly discuss that he is coached, and, most damningly, the fact that he, himself, has admitted to cheating ,makes all these desperate attempts to dig up other players who may have committed the offense once or "at least once" are pathetic: nobody cheats as often, as brazenly, or with as little consequence-$2,000 dollar fines while playing the final of the US Open, where the winner gets over a million, is a joke-as Butt Picker. But, again, I'd never seen him warned in a Grand Slam final until this year's US Open, so hopefully the spineless officials who run tennis will start to do their do. We can only hope....
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Wow. You seem to have it all figured out. Lol. If you truly believe the nonsense you are spewing out then I guess nobody can help you. Have fun on your yacht.
 
i do think it might make more sense to change the rule and up the time limit a bit. maybe 10 seconds more or so. ive said that all along.

but for now the rule stands as it is. and should be applied this way until it is changed or dropped. so maybe after an intense rally the next one would not be as intense cause one player may not be able to run down the 5th shot of that rally. maybe it wouldve gone to the 25th shot had he been given 50 seconds between the serves. i dont see how this would be oh so unmerciful.
as i see it its part of the game that you get exhausted and maybe cant hit every single shot the way you might if youd just stepped onto the court.

my point is if you start ignoring rules then where do you draw the line? you cant just say "ok the rules say so and so but i think this is stupid this just prevents me from playing my best". then someone else might say "yeah my shot was 3 meters long but come on it was such an awesome forehand with so much pace we should call that a winner". i know im being sarcastic to the max here but you see where this is going.

ignoring this particular rule seems fine most of the time but as soon as one player feels being disadvantaged by doing so (söderling in wimby 08 vs nadal maybe) and the rules actually support his protest then youre gonna be in a very tough situation to solve this. so as long as the rule stands as it is people like söderling will have a point when they complain.

and besides after a really amazing point the crowd will cheer and take time to settle down and this will most likely not get taken away from your time between serves so in that case you would easily get your 50 seconds or whatever and no one will complain. but after a regular rally with the crowd not going wild there is no valid reason to go over the time limit other than trying to give yourself an advantage that according to the rules you shoudl not have
 
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falkenburg said:
You've got pretty poor reading skills for somebody who is so smug: first of all, you said "many," and that's "many who are fined" but you produced ZERO (the 2nd one dawned on you in this post). Even if Nole had been fined BOTH times, one other player is not "many," see how that works? But he was NOT fined for the first one. The article claims that such violations are usually, but not always, accompanied by a fine, but I don't believe that's accurate. They ANNOUNCE such things(just like they announced that Fed was fined for cursing the ump a few years ago at the Open, and that Serena was fined for this year's, not to mention l'affaire foot fault), which is why I know that Nadal has been fined more than once. Comparing Nole-or anybody else, for that matter-to Nadal when it comes to illegal coaching is absolutely ludicrous: Nadal's cheating is continuous, ongoing, and often referred to by commentators, as happened in this year's US Open, when he was warned yet again-and evidently, he has NOT been fined for that transaction, still more evidence that the article's claim that warnings are "usually" accompanied by a fine is incorrect. Then, there is the crushing refutation that Nadal himself admitted to cheating, something that neither you or any other NNN is eager to address for some strange reason. So, again, use your finger and show me "many" players who have been fined for illegal coaching, instead of breezily-and evasively-deciding what cheating is "meaningless" and what isn't.
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You asked literally: "If there are ANY other players on the men's tour who have been fined more than once for cheating, like Nadal has, I'm all ears as to who they are."

I managed to find two instances in which even the current #1 of the world was caught "cheating". In one of them, he was fined. I just don't feel like wasting my time doing this research. Take a few minutes and google it. Of course Nadal is not the only one, are you that insane?
 
falkenburg said:
When I brought all this up, I SPECIFICALLY said, "the men's tour." Why, then,are you bringing up members of the ATP????????? And, let's look at the men you brought up: Gaudio. Retired. Coria. Retired. Nick Lapenti, Retired. Ahhh, wait, with Giovanni Lapenti, we have a winner:
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So just because a player is retired that means all his "cheating" is irrelevant?

Man, you sure have some weird way of thinking.
 
diggler said:
Yes, they are the current rules and should be enforced. Should we change the rules? Do you honestly believe it is reasonable what we are demanding of the players? Do you think the high rate of injuries may be because of unreasonable demands on them? Do you see a fantastic rally and then think, hurry up, get to the next one? Sounds like what a nymphomaniac in a gang bang might say.
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Very good point. Maybe that's why the umpires don't enforce the rules religiously. Because perhaps they have some more common sense than all the idiots idiots that complain about this crap.
 
diggler said:
Yes, they are the current rules and should be enforced. Should we change the rules? Do you honestly believe it is reasonable what we are demanding of the players? Do you think the high rate of injuries may be because of unreasonable demands on them? Do you see a fantastic rally and then think, hurry up, get to the next one? Sounds like what a nymphomaniac in a gang bang might say.
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It most certainly is reasonable, there's a lot of money at stake, get fit, or get out. The season is too long, and the players don't arrange their schedules very intelligently, but that has nothing to do with how much rest players should get between points. As has been pointed out in his loss, Nadal was taking up to FIFTY SECONDS when 20 or 25 are allowed. And he isn't doing it to catch his breath a lot of the time, he's doing it because of the importance of the point. A few years ago at the US Open, he was warned, against Monfils, if memory serves, and whined, "But, I'm down love 40!" to which the umpire, in a perfect blend of reproach and scorn, replied, "I don't care."
 
I have to agree 100% with falkenburg here. Nadal's cheating is way out of hand and it's embarrassing given how highly ranked he is. He should be a model for other players, and yet he's just the opposite.
 
Wolfman Jack said:
You asked literally: "If there are ANY other players on the men's tour who have been fined more than once for cheating, like Nadal has, I'm all ears as to who they are."

I managed to find two instances in which even the current #1 of the world was caught "cheating". In one of them, he was fined. I just don't feel like wasting my time doing this research. Take a few minutes and google it. Of course Nadal is not the only one, are you that insane?
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Thanks for pointing out what I literally said, and, literally, Nole wasn't fined AT ALL, let alone twice. It doesn't say he was fined, it says such transgressions USUALLY result in fines, so, you've already lied. Plus, you said "many" other players are fined, and you've produced zero. You "...don't feel like wasting (your) time doing this research.." because it doesn't exist. And, btw, even if another player IS found to have been fined at least twice-and despite all kinds of half truths, naming retired players and such, not a single such player HAS been found-would that make Nadal any less of a cheater? How come all the Nadal apologists won't comment on the fact that he has publicly ADMITTED to cheating? The hypocrisy of some people is unbelievable, and the notion that my guy shouldn't be ripped for cheating because others cheat shows a lack of moral character.
 
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Wolfman Jack said:
So just because a player is retired that means all his "cheating" is irrelevant?

Man, you sure have some weird way of thinking.
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Try and follow: cheaters shouldn't be tolerated. They should be penalized by loss of points and (significant) sums of money, and, if the cheating persists, suspended. But if a player is retired, that's kind of a moot point. See how that works?
 
falkenburg said:
Try and follow: cheaters shouldn't be tolerated. They should be penalized by loss of points and (significant) sums of money, and, if the cheating persists, suspended. But if a player is retired, that's kind of a moot point. See how that works?
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What if it's their first offense of a match, do you think the umpires should skip the warning and immediately penalize a point?
 
falkenburg said:
Thanks for pointing out what I literally said, and, literally, Nole wasn't fined AT ALL, let alone twice. It doesn't say he was fined, it says such transgressions USUALLY result in fines, so, you've already lied. Plus, you said "many" other players are fined, and you've produced zero. You "...don't feel like wasting (your) time doing this research.." because it doesn't exist. And, btw, even if another player IS found to have been fined at least twice-and despite all kinds of half truths, naming retired players and such, not a single such player HAS been found-would that make Nadal any less of a cheater? How come all the Nadal apologists won't comment on the fact that he has publicly ADMITTED to cheating? The hypocrisy of some people is unbelievable, and the notion that my guy shouldn't be ripped for cheating because others cheat shows a lack of moral character.
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Is smashing a racket against the rules (and hence cheating?)

Another fine for Djoker: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/sport...edon-fine-after-racket-abuse-115875-23228772/

It took me 1 minute to find (more time than I'd like to waste on this stupid subject.)
 
woodrow1029 said:
What if it's their first offense of a match, do you think the umpires should skip the warning and immediately penalize a point?
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The issue is not the penalty, the issue is that no one even calls the first offense half the time.


The problem is that Nadal continuously violates the time violation rules (him particularly the most because he knows he can get away with alot more than other players can), without any kind of penalty. He hasn't been given one point penalty at all as far as I know. The best example of this was when Nadal was already given a time violation in a match against Roddick, and proceeded to still waste time anyways in the tiebreaker. The umpire didn't give any kind of point penalty, when he obviously should have because it was CLEAR that Nadal was wasting time, but it didn't happen because Nadal would throw the biggest tantrum the world has ever seen if you did.
 
NamRanger said:
The issue is not the penalty, the issue is that no one even calls the first offense half the time.


The problem is that Nadal continuously violates the time violation rules (him particularly the most because he knows he can get away with alot more than other players can), without any kind of penalty. He hasn't been given one point penalty at all as far as I know. The best example of this was when Nadal was already given a time violation in a match against Roddick, and proceeded to still waste time anyways in the tiebreaker. The umpire didn't give any kind of point penalty, when he obviously should have because it was CLEAR that Nadal was wasting time, but it didn't happen because Nadal would throw the biggest tantrum the world has ever seen if you did.
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First of all, the issue being debated here was about coaching, not time violations.

Additionally, that issue against Roddick was during the change of ends. Players routinely take too much time during the end change in a tiebreak. While there are several examples where Nadal should have received a second time violation in a match, that is not a good example of it.
 
woodrow1029 said:
What if it's their first offense of a match, do you think the umpires should skip the warning and immediately penalize a point?
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Of course not, they get a warning-just like both Nadal and Nole got in the US Open final for slow play, as they should have, and they sped up somewhat, knowing the next warning would result in the loss of a point-but, even with that, the final set, which was 6-1 on hard courts, took 42 minutes. I'm glad that long ago the eliminated one of the steps in the escalating process, which McEnroe discovered to his chagrin at the AO. The problem is, they need to have the backbone to actually enforce it, and not be afraid of the players that their box was just yelling "Vamos!" And why, "Mr. Umpire," do you continue to not address the fact that Nadal has admitted to cheating?
 
falkenburg said:
I'm glad that long ago the eliminated one of the steps in the escalating process, which McEnroe discovered to his chagrin at the AO.
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Do you know how many steps are now in the point penalty schedule for code violations, and what the steps are? Also, do you know what steps are involved for time violations
 
TBH, the umpire in tennis are wimps. They are afraid to make a call b/c the players might provoke. I like the NBA referee...they are tough and are not intimidated by anyone, even the baddest boy like Ron Artest. They don't hestitate to call anything they feel it's necessary. The umpire in tennis should man up...show them who's boss, take full control of the match and not let the players have any leverage.
 
TMF said:
TBH, the umpire in tennis are wimps. They are afraid to make a call b/c the players might provoke. I like the NBA referee...they are tough and are not intimidated by anyone, even the baddest boy like Ron Artest. They don't hestitate to call anything they feel it's necessary. The umpire in tennis should man up...show them who's boss, take full control of the match and not let the players have any leverage.
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Oh come on. The NBA are the WORST of any professional sports with letting the stars showboat with traveling and fouls not being called. You can say that NFL or NHL referees are more consistent, but you can't seriously say that the NBA referees call everything. That's absurd.
 
woodrow1029 said:
Do you know how many steps are now in the point penalty schedule for code violations, and what the steps are? Also, do you know what steps are involved for time violations
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I'm done answering your questions, since you won't answer one I've asked you more than once: why, do you continue to not address the fact that Nadal has admitted to cheating?
 
falkenburg said:
I'm done answering your questions, since you won't answer one I've asked you more than once: why, do you continue to not address the fact that Nadal has admitted to cheating?
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Nobody is denying that he admitted to it. I just want to know if you know the rules now, since you mention that the rules changed before McEnroe was defaulted. Do you even know what the current steps are as of today? Do you think they are the same as they were then?
 
woodrow1029 said:
Nobody is denying that he admitted to it. I just want to know if you know the rules now, since you mention that the rules changed before McEnroe was defaulted. Do you even know what the current steps are as of today? Do you think they are the same as they were then?
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That's not addressing the question, and I see you've now sunk to a lie of omission by quoting me and leaving out the little detail that I said that about YOU, with the left out part being, I'm a tennis umpire and have fined many players in my illustrious career. YOU'RE the one who has made claims about your job, knowledge of unpublicized fines, and doling out fines on an internet forum, not I.
 
falkenburg said:
That's not addressing the question, and I see you've now sunk to a lie of omission by quoting me and leaving out the little detail that I said that about YOU, with the left out part being, I'm a tennis umpire and have fined many players in my illustrious career. YOU'RE the one who has made claims about your job, knowledge of unpublicized fines, and doling out fines on an internet forum, not I.
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How do you want the rules to be enforced, when you don't even know what the current rules are?

Additionally, as you can see from this link, you completely misquote. Copy and Paste works much better than just typing random things as quotes that never happened. As you can see, what I said was, "The people I mentioned in my last response were players that I have personally given code violations for coaching as a chair umpire and know that they were fined."

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=6073945&postcount=165

That is a lot different than what you posted as my quote.
 
Wolfman Jack said:
Is smashing a racket against the rules (and hence cheating?)

Another fine for Djoker: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/sport...edon-fine-after-racket-abuse-115875-23228772/

It took me 1 minute to find (more time than I'd like to waste on this stupid subject.)
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for that list of the "many" players currently active on the men's tour who have been fined more than once for illegal coaching. Try and focus. Here's a little help to answer your brilliant question, an encyclopedia definition of cheating:

Cheating refers to the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation. The rules infringed may be explicit, or they may be from an unwritten code of conduct based on morality, ethics or custom, making the identification of cheating a subjective process. Cheating can refer specifically to marital infidelity. Someone who is known for cheating is referred to as a cheat in British English, and a cheater in American English.

Is there a competitive advantage to be gained by being coached illegally? Yes, there is.

Is there a competitive advantage to be gained by breaking a racquet? No, there is not.

Does that answer your question? I hope it does. Still waiting for that list, btw...
 
The times it is stretching the rules to gain an advantage aren't necessarily the times Nadal takes a long time toweling off and recovering between points.

It is the times he goes over the limit standing on the base line doing a long routine and freezes the returner.

If anyone watched the last Nadal-Giraldo match he used this tactic often.
He actually caused Giraldo to wait and sometimes have to shuffle his feet twice because he was standing on the line waiting to receive serve for too long.

This is how Nadal gains an advantage using this tactic. It is being done to annoy the other player and get them to think about how long he is taking instead of concentrating on the return.

I remember one Tsonga-Nadal match, Tsonga complained about it to the umpire saying Nadal was making him hurt his back waiting bent over in the receiving position too long. :)
 
Lsmkenpo said:
The times it is stretching the rules to gain an advantage aren't necessarily the times Nadal takes a long time toweling off and recovering between points.

It is the times he goes over the limit standing on the base line doing a long routine and freezes the returner.

If anyone watched the last Nadal-Giraldo match he used this tactic often.
He actually caused Giraldo to wait and sometimes have to shuffle his feet twice because he was standing on the line waiting to receive serve for too long.

This is how Nadal gains an advantage using this tactic. It is being done to annoy the other player and get them to think about how long he is taking instead of concentrating on the return.

I remember one Tsonga-Nadal match, Tsonga complained about it to the umpire saying Nadal was making him hurt his back waiting bent over in the receiving position too long. :)
Click to expand...



BULLS EYE!
 
Lsmkenpo said:
The times it is stretching the rules to gain an advantage aren't necessarily the times Nadal takes a long time toweling off and recovering between points.

It is the times he goes over the limit standing on the base line doing a long routine and freezes the returner.

If anyone watched the last Nadal-Giraldo match he used this tactic often.
He actually caused Giraldo to wait and sometimes have to shuffle his feet twice because he was standing on the line waiting to receive serve for too long.

This is how Nadal gains an advantage using this tactic. It is being done to annoy the other player and get them to think about how long he is taking instead of concentrating on the return.

I remember one Tsonga-Nadal match, Tsonga complained about it to the umpire saying Nadal was making him hurt his back waiting bent over in the receiving position too long. :)
Click to expand...

I was watching that tsonga match live. He walked to umpire saying he's kept wating so long he doesnt know what to do..bend over, stand...wtf

Giraldo though was not affected by his tactics, he had no problem breaking him..he just couldnt hold his serve.

Nadal could be as unpopular in locker rooms as he is in these boards.
 
Lsmkenpo said:
The times it is stretching the rules to gain an advantage aren't necessarily the times Nadal takes a long time toweling off and recovering between points.

It is the times he goes over the limit standing on the base line doing a long routine and freezes the returner.

If anyone watched the last Nadal-Giraldo match he used this tactic often.
He actually caused Giraldo to wait and sometimes have to shuffle his feet twice because he was standing on the line waiting to receive serve for too long.

This is how Nadal gains an advantage using this tactic. It is being done to annoy the other player and get them to think about how long he is taking instead of concentrating on the return.

I remember one Tsonga-Nadal match, Tsonga complained about it to the umpire saying Nadal was making him hurt his back waiting bent over in the receiving position too long. :)
Click to expand...

Quite true, but there are people who barely know which end of the racquet should be gripped saying the extra time provides no benefit for Nadal, nor detriment. Some of those same geniuses often whine, "What's the big deal with the coaching? It doesn't make any difference!" When asked, if it makes so little difference, that scum like Nadal and Henin insisted on getting it practically non stop despite it being illegal, they don't have a lot to say.
 
falkenburg said:
Quite true, but there are people who barely know which end of the racquet should be gripped saying the extra time provides no benefit for Nadal, nor detriment. Some of those same geniuses often whine, "What's the big deal with the coaching? It doesn't make any difference!" When asked, if it makes so little difference, that scum like Nadal and Henin insisted on getting it practically non stop despite it being illegal, they don't have a lot to say.
Click to expand...

The problem is that it's a no win situation. For every one person that gets mad when time violations and code violations are not given out, there is also one person that gets furious when a time violation or code violation is given out because they think the umpire shouldn't get involved when he does. But the thing is, it is a discussion board. The practicality of it is a lot different. Not one person plays within 20-25 seconds every single point of every single match. What would be the point of stepping in every time? There has to be a pattern, and each match starts with a clean slate, so the umpire can't go out in the first game of a Nadal match and give a time violation warning at 15-0 just because he has a reputation of being slow. A lot of times, Nadal doesn't slow down until late in the set, and even then, a time violation won't be issued right away. Unfortunately, that's why a lot of his time violations come at 5-4, 5-5 or 6-5 in a set.

In 15 years of being an official, and in 9 years of being a chair umpire in professional matches, I think I gave 2 time violation point penalties, because 99% at least of the time the player speeds up after the warning and it's not an issue later in the match. And even then, if they do slow down, but it's a set or so later, we may caution them to speed up again before issuing a point penalty.
 
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