MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
If you say so, it's not a big deal to me what people think about this really, but Nadal has cost Djokovic more than Federer has where it really matters. If this thread is about best of 3 matches, then Roger.
Nadal calls Djokovic his toughest opponent; Federer thinks the same about Nadal. Who is Novak's?
- Thread starter Levi_Ackerman
- Start date
If you say so, it's not a big deal to me what people think about this really, but Nadal has cost Djokovic more than Federer has where it really matters. If this thread is about best of 3 matches, then Roger.
Druss
Hall of Fame
2007 to 2010 Federer vs Djokovic 11-6
2007 to 2010 Nadal vs Djokovic 15-7
2011 to 2013 Djokovic vs Nadal 10-6
2011 to 2013 Djokovic vs Federer 9-3
2014-2015 Djokovic vs Federer 7-5
2014-2015 Djokovic vs Nadal 5-1
It is clear that both Nadal and Federer gave Djokovic a hard time prior to 2011.
2011 to 2013 Nadal would have been the tougher for Djoko.
2014-2015 Federer was the tougher and appears to have been Djoker's main rival.
Overall: it's hard to call who was Djokovic's toughest throughout his career. Perhaps once you look closer at the H2Hs and the surfaces they played on, it would be fair to say Nadal was the tougher on clay and Federer on fast courts.
2007 to 2010 Nadal vs Djokovic 15-7
2011 to 2013 Djokovic vs Nadal 10-6
2011 to 2013 Djokovic vs Federer 9-3
2014-2015 Djokovic vs Federer 7-5
2014-2015 Djokovic vs Nadal 5-1
It is clear that both Nadal and Federer gave Djokovic a hard time prior to 2011.
2011 to 2013 Nadal would have been the tougher for Djoko.
2014-2015 Federer was the tougher and appears to have been Djoker's main rival.
Overall: it's hard to call who was Djokovic's toughest throughout his career. Perhaps once you look closer at the H2Hs and the surfaces they played on, it would be fair to say Nadal was the tougher on clay and Federer on fast courts.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
this is true. I must admit
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
As a novak fan, I have to say nadal has been tougher in slams
Druss
Hall of Fame
Federer doesn't exactly have a very good record at best of 5 slam finals and SFs, as opposed to Nadjo.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Exactly. Nadal has been tougher for novak in slams and the head to head is proof
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
And so has ultron to rafaRafa has given Ultron enough silverware for a badass wing night.
D
Deleted member 716271
Guest
Rafa has given Ultron enough silverware for a badass wing night.
nothing like super hot flats, could eat 100 of those about now
Levi_Ackerman
Legend
Has he really?
Let's take track from 2011, because let's face it, prior to 2011, Rafa clearly owned Djokovic wherever it really mattered, i.e. grand slams.
2011: Djokovic may have beaten Rafa at the RG Final. Lord knows he had put the fear of God in Rafa. But, Roger ruined those plans.
2012: Rafa stopped Djokovic at RG
2012: Roger stopped Djokovic at Wimbledon.
2013: Rafa stopped Djokovic at RG
2013: Rafa stopped Djokovic at USO
2014: Rafa stopped Djokovic at RG - where Djokovic was favourite.
Jeez! That's 4-2. MN is right. Even After Djokovic's rebirth in 2011, Rafa has been the one costing Djokovic more where it really matters.
Druss
Hall of Fame
Yes up until 2005 Hewitt and Roddick where as you say, however after 2005 Hewitt 'fell off a cliff' and Roddick gradually started to decline, so from 2005 to 2010 Nadal was Federer's main rival.
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
Damn you Rafa!
Levi_Ackerman
Legend
I still think Federer is tougher for Djokovic. Post-2011, Rafa is only tougher for Djokovic when he is being aggressive - as he was during the RG 2012, 2013, 2014 and USO 2013. However, aggressiveness does not come naturally for Rafa, as it does for Roger. Rafa's go-to game is defence, which Nole loves, as it allows him to be the aggressive player. Nole hates playing aggressive players, because like Rafa, defence is also his natural game, so it really rattles him when the other guy is aggressive. That's why he lost the USO 2012 and Wimby 2013, against one of the most defensive players in tennis - Andy Murray, because Andy Murray was uncharacteristically aggressive in those matches. It's the same reason why he lost to Wawa at RG 15; Wawa was so aggressive that it reduced Nole to the role of counter-puncher.Damn you Rafa!
Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
In a slam nadal is tougher than Federer. Over 5 sets if a had to choose between nadal and Federer I would choose Federer. We are talking about peak rafa btw not this rafa. But yes you right about the fact that rafa only beats Djokovic when he is uncharacteristically aggressive. Nadal explain something perfectly in this video:
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Again I have clearly stated that in the minds of many it was mental warfare, that was the opinion of many here at the time. Opinion, get it? But here you are saying that if he said that it was certainly directed at Federer. Again you are stating it as if it is fact. You can state your opinion that he meant it as genuine, but if others think he said it to get inside Nadal's head, who are you to say otherwise? Their opinion.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Amen! You speak my language.
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
Karlovic.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Only for 1 year though
Roger and Rafa are greater than Novak for now.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
I know you really believe that, but I also know it makes it a lot easier to admit knowing that that probably won't be the case for much longer. Being a Novak fan must be the business these days.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Even if he doesn't, I have nothing to complain about. He is already an ATG, for me that is good enough, and no matter what happens it doesn't diminish what Roger and Rafa have done. They deserve to be ahead of him, in my mind, he has a long way to go yet.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Spoken like a true fan, that's why I like you. Some people "need" way too much from their guys.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Thanks, you are a good fan too. You know me well enough now. I like my tennis, it just happens that Novak is the player I enjoy the most. I am not watching tennis to see who gets what position is some GOAT race, all of that is done to spice up the sport, but it's not really why most people choose to watch the sport in the first place. You watch the sport, because you like it, and want to be entertained, get an escape from your own life for a moment, have fun...when it starts to become about stats and numbers, then you need to take a step back and ask exactly why you are watching the sport now. I said many times that some of the best matches I have seen are ones that Novak has actually lost, Madrid 09, RG 2011, RG 2013 etc.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I agree. And I think Djoko's toughest opponent is still to come... A guy against whom he'll struggle to find a solution.
Yes, Djoko can lose matches vs the big triad but since 2011, he has dominated those 3 in the head to head by quite a margin. The closest has been vs Nadal on clay, which won't surprise anyone surely...
DRII
G.O.A.T.
don't hold your breath...Here's hoping for another seven match winning streak soon. 
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Well, what can I say? In his case, almost impossible still doesn't equate to impossible, does it? I think Djokovic currently better fits the description almost impossible to beat!
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Prob nadal close second federer. However Djokovic Has Had To face nadal in enemy territory clay the majority of times at the majors. Might be different if they were meeting more at the other 3 majors. Fed might be first then.
DerekNoleFam1
Hall of Fame
One would think the 1st statement is inevitable, provided a player steps up to become a dominant Number 1 etc.
This is the normal cycle of events, esp if Djoker wants to keep playing to Agassi or Federer type of ages.
On the OP, of course Nadal has been the toughest opponent.
Nadal did find a solution to Djoker after that 2012 AO, winning 6 out of 7 after that, and up to the 2013 USO.
Djoker has since turned this rivalry on it's head again, but still lost the 2014 French - so Nadal has always been the biggest hurdle.
Wawrinka has also been difficult since 2013 AO, but only goes into a Stanimal role at Slams, at Masters and even WTF's he is not in that mode.
Gary20
Banned
You are not answering the point? How can it be mental warfare against the guy you call GOAT? Their relationship soured for a couple of years after Rafa blanked Djokovic after he lost on clay to him. didnt see Djokovic call him GOAT at that point!! He was silent on the issue.
D
Deleted member 716271
Guest
It doesn't matter the reasons why. What matters is Rafa leads 9-4 in slams and has cost Novak more where it counts than Fed. Fed does have a style that naturally troubles Novak more, but so what? That's not the question. And Roger's age might be somewhat a valid reason for putting his performances into a context that's fair to him, but again not the question.
Bottom line: Novak has been hurt the most where it counts by his contemporary Rafael Nadal, just as Nadal has been hurt most by Djokovic. Again, no knock on Federer.
mattosgrant
Banned
I think that is definitely Federer. Yes his head to head with Federer is marginally better than Nadal. However you sense Nadal had to play out of his mind and face Djokovic subpar to have any chance of winning from 2011 onwards, and even then sometimes it wasnt enough. Federer you sense can play his normal game and have a chance, even past his prime.
Djokovic is definitely Nadal's toughest opponent, moreso than Federer or anyone else (I know Federer fans will dispute that but they are deleusional on many levels). Nadal is definitely Federer's toughest opponent, no question on that. I would say Federer is Djokovic's toughest opponent. So indeed amongst those 3 the circle is complete.
While Murray isnt any of those 3 guys toughest opponent over each other, he presents another interesting question. Which of Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, is Murray the toughest for and the biggest threat too? I would say not Federer despite leading the head to head in the early going. Probably Djokovic I would guess.
Djokovic is definitely Nadal's toughest opponent, moreso than Federer or anyone else (I know Federer fans will dispute that but they are deleusional on many levels). Nadal is definitely Federer's toughest opponent, no question on that. I would say Federer is Djokovic's toughest opponent. So indeed amongst those 3 the circle is complete.
While Murray isnt any of those 3 guys toughest opponent over each other, he presents another interesting question. Which of Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, is Murray the toughest for and the biggest threat too? I would say not Federer despite leading the head to head in the early going. Probably Djokovic I would guess.
sportsfan1
Legend
From that same link that OP posted
He said: "Djokovic reckons the Spaniard is the toughest opponent he has ever come across and beating him represents the biggest challenge in sport."
“Facing Rafa is always the biggest challenge that you can have in our sport now."
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/tennis/open-rafael-nadal-insists-novak-2260955
Given that article is from 2013, Wawrinka this year has been Djo's toughest oppponent at the slam, taking him to 5 sets at AO, and beating him at RG.
He said: "Djokovic reckons the Spaniard is the toughest opponent he has ever come across and beating him represents the biggest challenge in sport."
“Facing Rafa is always the biggest challenge that you can have in our sport now."
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/tennis/open-rafael-nadal-insists-novak-2260955
Given that article is from 2013, Wawrinka this year has been Djo's toughest oppponent at the slam, taking him to 5 sets at AO, and beating him at RG.
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
Actually the AO match was 5 sets
A terrible 5-setter, but still - I understand the confusion as that 6-0 5th set just whizzed by!
Mainad
Bionic Poster
I agree. Djokovic has lost more Slam and Masters finals against Murray than either Federer or Nadal.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Actually the AO match was 5 sets
Yeah, I realised I had confused it with the RG match which is why I deleted my post but you got in too quick for me to get away!
mavsman149
Hall of Fame
Novak's toughest opponent, that's easy.
Spaniard! Spaniard! Spaniard!
Spaniard! Spaniard! Spaniard!
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
In fairness Mainad, Nadal probably would've done too if he and Murray had faced each other when Andy was at his very best in 2012-13.
mattosgrant
Banned
That is right. Murray directly denied Djokovic 2 slams (and he won both matches fair and square regardless the array of excuses from some). He also came very close to foiling his RG dream before Stan did it anyway, and almost denied him the 2012 AO title before Nadal did likewise (the almost part that is). Add to that all the Masters finals he beat him, and foiling his Olympic Gold dream (I am pretty sure he beats fatigued and badly out of form Federer in final, so he was the difference between 1st and 4th there) and he has done the most damage to Djokovic out of any of the 3. Heck if Djokovic falls short of Federer's record (or perhaps even doesnt pass Nadal) it will likely be because of Murray. Not only the 2 slams he pretty clearly took away, but any possible future ones he might.
Murray did beat Nadal in 2 slams which was very impressive. However in retrospect it doesnt seem likely Nadal would have won either anyway. He probably doesnt beat Djokovic and Federer back to back at the 08 U.S Open, nor does he likely beat Federer at the 2010 Australian open.
Murray denied Federer alot of potential Masters titles. He beat him in the Olympics final. He didnt really deny him a slam though. Federer wasnt ever beating Djokovic at the 2013 Australian Open and that is the only slam Murray beat Federer at. Maybe denied him the 2008 WTF title, but that is a pure guess with no way of knowing.
Mainad
Bionic Poster
AngryBirds
Semi-Pro
An in-form Wawrinka is capable of beating Djokovic at any slam. Whenever Djokovic faces Wawrinka in slams these days, you can feel it's going to be a dog fight.
Nadal has no respect for Federer
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
True, but I do think the Muzzdal H2H would look a little more respectable if the Lendlized version had actually got to play Nadal whilst at his very peak. Mind you, it wouldn't be the first time in his career that the Spaniard's dodged a couple of bullets.Oh, quite possibly but we can only go on what has actually happened, can't we?
HipRotation
Hall of Fame
Livedeath
Professional
Both Roger and Rafa present different set of problems to Novak, if the former brings in variety which the latter can handle, but disturbs Novaks rhythm, then the latter brings in a never-say-die attitude which corrodes Novak's confidence in due course of the match.
They both have had their fair share of success against him and have taken away many a title from him, whether it was a grand slam, masters or Olympics medal.
I always was of the opinion that he could impose his HC game more on them than his clay or grass game, and his record substantiated this. His improved game on grass and clay has given him success in recent years against them, but they will continue to pose serious threat to him on their favourite surfaces.
They both have had their fair share of success against him and have taken away many a title from him, whether it was a grand slam, masters or Olympics medal.
I always was of the opinion that he could impose his HC game more on them than his clay or grass game, and his record substantiated this. His improved game on grass and clay has given him success in recent years against them, but they will continue to pose serious threat to him on their favourite surfaces.
Livedeath
Professional
A juvenile Novak lost to Safin in 2005, Safin was not be denied this year.
In Wimbledon 2008 Safin gave his best performance of his career, he had never ever reached Semi Final before and he always considered grass his worst surface. Bad luck again for Djokovic, he again met a goating or peaking Safin
.I have always found it weird that Safin with his height, serve and game had a poor record on grass.
