Nadal can beat Federer to win Wimbledon!?!?

slal1984

Semi-Pro
Here is my theory:

If Nadal can incorporate 40-60% serve and volley, take the ball earlier, go for broke more often on grass:

it will allow him to end matches faster, preserve his body (knees), and hopefully with an easy draw make the final.

Once he reaches the final, much healthier and less wear and tear on his body, he could have what it takes to beat Fed and win Wimbledon.!! (If it rains and the roof is closed)

But can Nadal and old DAWG learn new tricks?
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
If Nadal can incorporate 40-60% serve and volley, take the ball earlier, go for broke more often on grass:
Literally insane. When has Nadal incorporated even 5% serve and volley in ANY match he has ever played? I will almost guarantee you he's never played one match in his entire career where he has S & V'ed more than 10%. The one exception might be the year he won Queens, when he came in maybe 11% of the time. Otherwise, he comes in on sitter volleys or comes in to retrieve a drop shot.

Also watch this, he has no natural serve and volley approach. He serves, then plants his feet, then comes in, which is egregiously poor and ineffective form. He's tentative and doesn't commit at all to coming in. Edberg, Pete, Boris and Mac would cringe at this:
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Literally insane. When has Nadal incorporated even 5% serve and volley in ANY match he has ever played? I will almost guarantee you he's never played one match in his entire career where he has S & V'ed more than 10%. The one exception might be the year he won Queens, when he came in maybe 11% of the time. Otherwise, he comes in on sitter volleys or comes in to retrieve a drop shot.

Also watch this, he has no natural serve and volley approach. He serves, then plants his feet, then comes in, which is egregiously poor and ineffective form. He's tentative and doesn't commit at all to coming in. Edberg, Pete, Boris and Mac would cringe at this:
saw that video. only the 1st one was where he didn't plant his feet.
Rest all he did.
 

stephenclown

Professional
saw that video. only the 1st one was where he didn't plant his feet.
Rest all he did.
Also he doesn't have a great backhand volley, ball is hit too far in front, limits his play making ability and shot selection. He chops under to counter this issue rather than letting the stroke mechanics do the work with the ball not as far in front.

Federer used to do the same thing on his forehand. This is evident among nearly all modern singles players but was corrected by Edberg and assisted by Ljubicic. Nadal does not place the same importance on his volley so he has never tried to fix it. Federer's backhand was always very natural and classic, so didn't require the same work, just his mentality at the net on that side. Hence Federer's net game has improved quite a lot in recent years and helped save his body.
 

Sentinel

Bionic Poster
I think it's very unfair that Wimbledon, the premier tennis event, is held every year on grass, and at Wimbledon.
As the most prestigious event, it should be rotated on clay every other year, and it should be held in Barcelona, Monte Carlo, Lammorca, Valencia, Zaragoza, Seville, etc too.
 
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Deleted member 716271

Guest
If he's good enough to make the final, he would IMO.

Consider AO 17 was 5th set comeback win for Fed on low bouncing fast HC.

Wimbledon 2nd week would kick up higher.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
If he's good enough to make the final, he would IMO.

Consider AO 17 was 5th set comeback win for Fed on low bouncing fast HC.

Wimbledon 2nd week would kick up higher.
that was with Federer still overcoming his mental demons.

after that, Federer has beaten Nadal in straight sets thrice, without getting broken and without a single tie-break set, losing 5 games, 7* games, 7 games respectively.
two of the 3 were on slow, higher bouncing HCs - IW & Miami.

4 sets tops for Federer if he's playing well. current Nadal would be rushed too much on grass from the ground+doesn't return as well as he did on grass from 06-11.

* - corrected.
 
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Deleted member 716271

Guest
that was with Federer still overcoming his mental demons.

after that, Federer has beaten Nadal in straight sets thrice, without getting broken and without a single tie-break set, losing 5 games, 5 games, 7 games respectively.
two of the 3 were on slow, higher bouncing HCs - IW & Miami.

4 sets tops for Federer if he's playing well. current Nadal would be rushed too much on grass from the ground+doesn't return as well as he did on grass from 06-11.
wel lets hope we find out
 
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Deleted member 716271

Guest
I would hope so too, except Nadal would get 1200 points atleast if he made the final, putting him in a stronger position to end YE#1.
If a clear Nadal dip/decline is assured after Wimbledon so Federer can have a good shot at YE#1, I'll take that Wimby final.;)
Nadal always sucks in the fall though after USO, I think Fed would still get 1
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Nadal always sucks in the fall though after USO, I think Fed would still get 1
that's what many of us thought last year after Wimbledon. Fed ended up getting injured in Montreal, ruining his Cincy+USO chances.
and that SoB(;)) Nadal won the USO in a cakewalk draw + picked up sufficient points at beijing(500)+ shanghai (600)
 
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Deleted member 716271

Guest
that's what many of us thought last year after Wimbledon. Fed ended up getting injured in Montreal, ruining his Cincy+USO chances.
and that SoB(;)) Nadal won the USO in a cakewalk draw + picked up sufficient points at beijing(500)+ shanghai (600)
Would you take Fed vs Rafa Wimbledon final with Fed winning vs. Rafa losing in R1 and Fed beating a no name in the final, if the extra points Rafa got from making the final meant he'd be 1 instead of Fed at YE?

I know you think H2H is rubbish, but wouldn't that Fed Wimbledon win over Rafa before their careers were over be sweet? Admit it ;)
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Would you take Fed vs Rafa Wimbledon final with Fed winning vs. Rafa losing in R1 and Fed beating a no name in the final, if the extra points Rafa got from making the final meant he'd be 1 instead of Fed at YE?

I know you think H2H is rubbish, but wouldn't that Fed Wimbledon win over Rafa before their careers were over be sweet? Admit it ;)
I doubt a no name would reach the Wimbledon final. Unless the draw is really, really easy (ala USO 2017) for Fed, I'll take the W win without Nadal+ YE #1.
Fed is 2-1 vs Nadal at Wim anyways.
If it is the USO final, I might be tempted, hmm. :D
I don't think H2H is rubbish btw. I just think it has to be taken in context. And while it is a factor, it is hyped up too many times over other more important factors and talked about many a times without context.

Its why I think Fed not winning one of Wim 08/AO 09 (AO 09 more so) is a -ve for him. (since he was still in his prime, though not peak). AO 2017 sorta made up for it though.
A lesser -ve being not being able to beat Nadal once at RG.

But the 6-9 slam h2h vs Djoker is not a big deal since majority of those matches were vs past his prime Federer.

that's what I mean by taking the h2h in context.

and yes, Fed Wimbledon win over Rafa would be sweet. No doubt. ;)
 
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Literally insane. When has Nadal incorporated even 5% serve and volley in ANY match he has ever played? I will almost guarantee you he's never played one match in his entire career where he has S & V'ed more than 10%. The one exception might be the year he won Queens, when he came in maybe 11% of the time. Otherwise, he comes in on sitter volleys or comes in to retrieve a drop shot.

Also watch this, he has no natural serve and volley approach. He serves, then plants his feet, then comes in, which is egregiously poor and ineffective form. He's tentative and doesn't commit at all to coming in. Edberg, Pete, Boris and Mac would cringe at this:
Some thing i can not work out why Rafa Nadal trails Roger Federer in the point score when Rafa has won Monte Carlo,Madrid ,Rome and the French and still trails Roger Federer. TW
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Some thing i can not work out why Rafa Nadal trails Roger Federer in the point score when Rafa has won Monte Carlo,Madrid ,Rome and the French and still trails Roger Federer. TW
Nadal did not win Madrid, he lost in QF to Thiem.

Nadal has 2 slams. Federer has 2 slams. Equal.

Nadal has one slam QF (AO), Federer has one slam QF(USO). Equal.

Nadal has 2 Masters 1000 (monte carlo+rome) +2 500s (barcelona+beijing) +1 masters final (shanghai)= 2000+1000+600 = 3600
Federer has 1 Masters 1000(shanghai)+ 2 masters finals (IW, Canada)+ 3 500s (Halle, Rotterdam, Basel) = 1000+1200+1500 = 3700

rest are all < 300 points and almost balance themselves out.

Federer is ahead by only 150 points.
 
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sbengte

G.O.A.T.
I think it's very unfair that Wimbledon, the premier tennis event, is held every year on grass, and at Wimbledon.
As the most prestigious event, it should be rotated on clay every other year, and it should be held in Barcelona, Monte Carlo, Lammorca, Valencia, Zaragoza, Seville, etc too.
'Tis also fair that Nadal's draws at Wimby should match his USO draws too..
 

sbengte

G.O.A.T.
that's what many of us thought last year after Wimbledon. Fed ended up getting injured in Montreal, ruining his Cincy+USO chances.
and that SoB(;)) Nadal won the USO in a cakewalk draw + picked up sufficient points at beijing(500)+ shanghai (600)
This. Nadal will play a full season. Now that the field is crapola, there is no point bringing up imaginjuries to rest , vulturedal gonna vulture ;) Fed on the other hand could break something in his body any time and he is guaranteed a couple of injuries at least from now till the end of season.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
This. Nadal will play a full season. Now that the field is crapola, there is no point bringing up imaginjuries to rest , vulturedal gonna vulture ;) Fed on the other hand could break something in his body any time and he is guaranteed a couple of injuries at least from now till the end of season.
don't think the AO injury was an imaginjury.
But yeah, he extended the break to IW+Miami , which tells me he ain't doing as well (or as confident) as last year off clay. He could've played atleast one of them tbh.
Except for final, he wasn't serving that well at RG, from what I saw. Plus got hand cramps in the 3rd set out of nowhere in the final.

can't say when either of these guys get injured/pull out of events. its just not that predictable.
 
Here is my theory:

If Nadal can incorporate 40-60% serve and volley, take the ball earlier, go for broke more often on grass:

it will allow him to end matches faster, preserve his body (knees), and hopefully with an easy draw make the final.

Once he reaches the final, much healthier and less wear and tear on his body, he could have what it takes to beat Fed and win Wimbledon.!! (If it rains and the roof is closed)

But can Nadal and old DAWG learn new tricks?
This means attacking game..
If nadal tries playing attacking game, he is playing Roger's style...
And naturally, who is attacking player?? Roger, thats it..
The outcome will be worse for nadal than expected
Because you can not beat me with my own made weapons
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Wouldn't bet on it but anything's possible. Never write off the Nadal or his draw making powers, I expect to see Gasquet and Anderson in his quarter. Wimbledon grass was pretty high bouncing last year, will probably the same this year (or worse).
 

Krish872007

G.O.A.T.
While I do think Rafa could potentially go all the way and even beat Federer, the tactics recommended by the OP would be the WORST way to go about doing it.

S&V? More aggression and taking the ball early? A closed roof?? Surely a troll. All of these things favour Fed
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
don't think the AO injury was an imaginjury.
But yeah, he extended the break to IW+Miami , which tells me he ain't doing as well (or as confident) as last year off clay. He could've played atleast one of them tbh.
Except for final, he wasn't serving that well at RG, from what I saw. Plus got hand cramps in the 3rd set out of nowhere in the final.

can't say when either of these guys get injured/pull out of events. its just not that predictable.
Don't think IW/MIami had to with confidence or his game on HC, it was just strategic break to save his body for the CC season. Now that that's done with I expect Nadal to play full calendar for the rest of the season.

He wants another YE#1 and has a decent chance to defend USO which was tailored to his taste last year.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Don't think IW/MIami had to with confidence or his game on HC, it was just strategic break to save his body for the CC season. Now that that's done with I expect Nadal to play full calendar for the rest of the season.

He wants another YE#1 and has a decent chance to defend USO which was tailored to his taste last year.
good point.
 
Nadal did not win Madrid, he lost in QF to Thiem.

Nadal has 2 slams. Federer has 2 slams. Equal.

Nadal has one slam QF (AO), Federer has one slam QF(USO). Equal.

Nadal has 2 Masters 1000 (monte carlo+rome) +2 500s (barcelona+beijing) = 3000
Federer has 1 Masters 1000(shanghai)+ 1 masters final (IW)+ 3 500s (Halle, Rotterdam, Basel) = 1000+600+1500 = 3100

rest are all < 300 points and almost balance themselves out.

Federer is ahead by only 150 points.
Fed also made the Canada final.
 

Prabhanjan

Professional
If Fed can do something which he could never do, beat Nadal beyond Wimbledon, I fully trust Nadal to do something that he has already done.
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
Wouldn't bet on it but anything's possible. Never write off the Nadal or his draw making powers, I expect to see Gasquet and Anderson in his quarter. Wimbledon grass was pretty high bouncing last year, will probably the same this year (or worse).
Don't forget Nadal's powers to manipulate the weather at will too...
 

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
The only reason I'm over the Maestronian empire.
They are the worst sporting supporter group I've ever encountered in my life. That includes the Essendon football club supporters which is REALLY saying something.

EDIT: I'll just add that there are some decent Federer fans too. Talking about the masses.
 
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