Nadal can still easily surpass/match Federer's Slam count

AceSalvo

Legend
No one could have ever predicted there really would be no valid Next Gen to challenge Djoko and Nadal after 30+. The depth of the tour in the last two years has been the worst ever. Thats why there is still hope for Fed regardless of all the catching up Nadal does.
 

BGod

Legend
Well Fed choking away 2 championship points on serve at Wimbledon coupled with playing Kevin Anderson & Daniil Medvedev for USO is a measure of luck.

Now watch Nadal not win the French next season and everyone loses their mind. Like winning 4 Slams in a row is still damn hard people:

Borg 76-80 Wimbledon
Borg 78-81 French
Sampras 97-00 Wimbledon
Federer 03-07 Wimbledon
Nadal 05-08 French
Federer 04-08 USO
Nadal 10-14 French
 

Sport

Legend
No one could have ever predicted there really would be no valid Next Gen to challenge Djoko and Nadal after 30+. The depth of the tour in the last two years has been the worst ever. Thats why there is still hope for Fed regardless of all the catching up Nadal does.
If Federer had defeated Safin at the AO 2005, Del Potro at the US Open 2009 and Cilic at the US Open 2014 we would not be having this conversation. Don't blame the Next Gen if your guy was unable to win more Slams earlier.
 

Sport

Legend
Well Fed choking away 2 championship points on serve at Wimbledon coupled with playing Kevin Anderson & Daniil Medvedev for USO is a measure of luck.

Now watch Nadal not win the French next season and everyone loses their mind. Like winning 4 Slams in a row is still damn hard people:

Borg 76-80 Wimbledon
Borg 78-81 French
Sampras 97-00 Wimbledon
Federer 03-07 Wimbledon
Nadal 05-08 French
Federer 04-08 USO
Nadal 10-14 French
Yes, facing Medvedev in the USO final, the most in form player post-Wimbledon with 6 consecutive finals, "a measure of luck". Because facing Federer (who has not won the USO since 2008) would be tougher no?

Also, you forgot to mention that Nadal faced Del Potro in the USO 2017, the same opponent Djokovic had in the USO 2018 final. Del Potro is a solid rival.
 

BGod

Legend
Yes, facing Medvedev in the USO final, the most in form player post-Wimbledon with 6 consecutive finals, "a measure of luck". Because facing Federer (who has not won the USO since 2008) would be tougher no?

Also, you forgot to mention that Nadal faced Del Potro in the USO 2017, the same opponent Djokovic had in the USO 2018 final. Del Potro is a solid rival.
Medvedev had not made a Slam QF beforehand. And as we know from Zverev, non-Slam success is irrelevant for younger players right now.

As far as 2017, Potro was the only DECENT opponent Nadal got that entire draw and was coming back from years out due to injury. In general he had a good tournament but wasn't yet at that level plus having a tougher opponent prior. Weren't you making light of his drubbing of Nafal in 2018 because of the Thiem match?

Nadal's 2017 & 2019 USO draws are objectively weaker than 90% of previous champions.
 

Sport

Legend
Medvedev had not made a Slam QF beforehand. And as we know from Zverev, non-Slam success is irrelevant for younger players right now.

As far as 2017, Potro was the only DECENT opponent Nadal got that entire draw and was coming back from years out due to injury. In general he had a good tournament but wasn't yet at that level plus having a tougher opponent prior. Weren't you making light of his drubbing of Nafal in 2018 because of the Thiem match?

Nadal's 2017 & 2019 USO draws are objectively weaker than 90% of previous champions.
So? Only because it was his first Slam final it does not follow that he was a weak rival. Federer won the first Slam final he played at. Nadal won the first Slam final he played at. Does it mean Federer was a weak rival in the Wimbledon 2003 final and Nadal a weak rival in the RG 2005 final?
 
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DSH

Hall of Fame
Well Fed choking away 2 championship points on serve at Wimbledon coupled with playing Kevin Anderson & Daniil Medvedev for USO is a measure of luck.

Now watch Nadal not win the French next season and everyone loses their mind. Like winning 4 Slams in a row is still damn hard people:

Borg 76-80 Wimbledon
Borg 78-81 French
Sampras 97-00 Wimbledon
Federer 03-07 Wimbledon
Nadal 05-08 French
Federer 04-08 USO
Nadal 10-14 French

Another wishful thinking.
People never learn about their mistakes!
:rolleyes:
 
So? Only because it was his first Slam final it does not follow that he was a weak rival. Federer won the first Slam final he played at. Nadal won the first Slam final he played at. Does it mean Federer was a weak rival in the Wimbledon 2003 final and Nadal a weak rival in the RG 2005 final?
Lol, this guy is truly pathetic. I'm sure he never watched USO final anyway.
 

DSH

Hall of Fame
Medvedev had not made a Slam QF beforehand. And as we know from Zverev, non-Slam success is irrelevant for younger players right now.

As far as 2017, Potro was the only DECENT opponent Nadal got that entire draw and was coming back from years out due to injury. In general he had a good tournament but wasn't yet at that level plus having a tougher opponent prior. Weren't you making light of his drubbing of Nafal in 2018 because of the Thiem match?

Nadal's 2017 & 2019 USO draws are objectively weaker than 90% of previous champions.
And Cilic was the only "decent" opponent Federer had at the the AO 2018.
And no forget his Wimbledon draw in 2017 is so overrated.
The only player who played well was Berdych!, who we know, in the end, ceased to be a threat in the Majors for several years.
Why you do not open your mouth in those cases, too?
The reason is pretty obvious: You are biased like everyone else.
:censored:
 
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BGod

Legend
So? Only because it was his first Slam final it does not follow that he was a weak rival. Federer won the first Slam final he played at. Nadal won the first Slam final he played at. Does it mean Federer was a weak rival in the Wimbledon 2003 final and Nadal a weak rival in the RG 2005 final?
Power of hindsight. If Medvedev wins like 3 Slams of the next 6, your argument gets stronger, if he loses in 3rd, 4th rounds like Zverev your argument gets weaker. Right now Medvedev has 1 deep Slam run.

And Cilic was the only "decent" opponent Federer had at the the AO 2018.
And no forget his Wimbledon draw in 2017 is so overrated.
The only player who played well was Berdych!, who we know, in the end, ceased to be a threat in the Majors for several years.
Why you do not open your mouth in those cases, too?
The reason is pretty obvious: You are biased like everyone else.
:censored:
Federer's 2018 AO is weaker than 90% of Slam champions. I wasn't asked specifically about him. The 2017 Wimbledon draw is on the weaker end too yes. This thread is talking about Nadal's chances and I point out winning 4 consecutive Slams is hard.
 

DSH

Hall of Fame
Power of hindsight. If Medvedev wins like 3 Slams of the next 6, your argument gets stronger, if he loses in 3rd, 4th rounds like Zverev your argument gets weaker. Right now Medvedev has 1 deep Slam run.



Federer's 2018 AO is weaker than 90% of Slam champions. I wasn't asked specifically about him. The 2017 Wimbledon draw is on the weaker end too yes. This thread is talking about Nadal's chances and I point out winning 4 consecutive Slams is hard.
I have never seen a thread of yours that constantly diminishes the achievements of Federer and Djokovic.
With Nadal, on the contrary...
:censored::sick:
 

BGod

Legend
I have never seen a thread of yours that constantly diminishes the achievements of Federer and Djokovic.
With Nadal, on the contrary...
:censored::sick:
Have you seen the threads out there? Do I have a single one where I'm making an agenda berating Nadal? I don't believe so. I ask for rankings of which mine are my own opinion.
 
Well Fed choking away 2 championship points on serve at Wimbledon coupled with playing Kevin Anderson & Daniil Medvedev for USO is a measure of luck.
Sorry, that's not luck. That's on him. Please stop being so jealous of Nadal, it's painful, it's embarrassing. You realise no guy has missed championship points on serve at Wimbledon since the 1940s or something? Nadal had his hands full with Medvedev and he found a way. And he has beaten both Federer and Djokovic on THEIR turf (which Fed NEVER has to him on clay and Djokovic only once in Nadal's worst year at the RG) so he has earned the right to some luck.

Gad, never thought I would have to advocate so much for Nadal. We don't know yet if Nadal will bag the record or not but at least be patient until then and stop trying to prematurely manufacture objections. A slam is a slam is a slam.
 
Sorry, that's not luck. That's on him. Please stop being so jealous of Nadal, it's painful, it's embarrassing. You realise no guy has missed championship points on serve at Wimbledon since the 1940s or something? Nadal had his hands full with Medvedev and he found a way. And he has beaten both Federer and Djokovic on THEIR turf (which Fed NEVER has to him on clay and Djokovic only once in Nadal's worst year at the RG) so he has earned the right to some luck.

Gad, never thought I would have to advocate so much for Nadal. We don't know yet if Nadal will bag the record or not but at least be patient until then and stop trying to prematurely manufacture objections. A slam is a slam is a slam.
Yes, and also Medvedev was a tougher opponent than anybody Federer faced in Wimbledon 2017 or AO 2018. If Nadal was "lucky" to win his last few slams, then what can we say about Federer?
 
Yes, and also Medvedev was a tougher opponent than anybody Federer faced in Wimbledon 2017 or AO 2018. If Nadal was "lucky" to win his last few slams, then what can we say about Federer?
I MIGHT rate Cilic in AO 2018 higher, considering that he also beat Nadal en route. But Wimbledon 2017 was a cupcake draw. Players of decent pedigree but none of whom played to potential. Berdych played well for a set and a half at best. It was ridiculous that Fed in 3rd gear actually won Wimbledon without dropping a set for the first time.
 

Sport

Legend
I MIGHT rate Cilic in AO 2018 higher, considering that he also beat Nadal en route. But Wimbledon 2017 was a cupcake draw. Players of decent pedigree but none of whom played to potential. Berdych played well for a set and a half at best. It was ridiculous that Fed in 3rd gear actually won Wimbledon without dropping a set for the first time.
I agree that that version of Cilic was impressive, but I would not rank that as "tougher" than Medvedev, only because he defeated an injured Nadal. Let us not forget that Nadal got injured in the leg in the final part of the fourth set and had to withdrawn in his match against Cilic in the AO 2018. Nadal was unable to play again in 2 months or so. I am not saying "uninjured Nadal is undefeated". That Cilic would have had chances to defeat an even a healthy version of Nadal that day. Even before the injury, Cilic was putting Nadal in trouble.

But Medvedev has made 6 finals in a row, has won 2 Masters 1000... Without a shadow of a doubt, Medvedev was a tougherr rival than Cilic, as Cilic has never won 2 Masters 1000, nor has he ever made 6 finals in a row. Cilic won his only Slam without facing Nadal, with 2014 Federer at the USO and Nishikori waiting in the final. Who said that prime Medvedev (second half of 2019) could not have won USO 2014 with that draw? In fact, with the years to come, and in historical perspecrive, I think Medvedev will be considered a far tougher rival than Cilic, as Cilic merely won 1 Slam while Medvedev is a potential ATG.
 

zep

Hall of Fame
Yes, and also Medvedev was a tougher opponent than anybody Federer faced in Wimbledon 2017 or AO 2018. If Nadal was "lucky" to win his last few slams, then what can we say about Federer?
They disrespected Anderson, and Anderson beat their god at Wimbledon from 2 sets down loool. Funnily if Federer had beaten Anderson, he would have had Isner who's a fairly easy match up for him and then a tired Djokovic in the final, he could have won it all. Anderson stopped it. I call that Karma.
 
I MIGHT rate Cilic in AO 2018 higher, considering that he also beat Nadal en route. But Wimbledon 2017 was a cupcake draw. Players of decent pedigree but none of whom played to potential. Berdych played well for a set and a half at best. It was ridiculous that Fed in 3rd gear actually won Wimbledon without dropping a set for the first time.
Nadal played this match without serve at all (his serve was extremely weak during most of 2018) and still somehow won the third set. Even though Cilic ended up winning the match but he again showed mental weakness, like he usually does. Even in the fifth set it took him lots of break points until the broke an injured Nadal.

As for the final, the first and fifth sets were total beatdowns. Cilic did well to win 2 sets, but Federer owned him mentally, and once he started playing a bit better in the fifth set Cilic went down really fast. Medvedev on the other hand was mentally strong during the whole tournament in USO 2019, including the final. Even in the fifth set he fought until the last point. If you rewatch the last game you will see Med didn't really do anything wrong in it, Nadal had to go for his shots and win every point himself. So I definitely rate Med's performance higher than Cilic's.
 
I agree that that version of Cilic was impressive, but I would not rank that as "tougher" than Medvedev, only because he defeated an injured Nadal. Let us not forget that Nadal got injured in the leg in the final part of the fourth set and had to withdrawn in his match against Cilic in the AO 2018. Nadal was unable to play again in 2 months or so. I am not saying "uninjured Nadal is undefeated". That Cilic would have had chances to defeat an even a healthy version of Nadal that day. Even before the injury, Cilic was putting Nadal in trouble.

But Medvedev has made 6 finals in a row, has won 2 Masters 1000... Without a shadow of a doubt, Medvedev was a tougherr rival than Cilic, as Cilic has never won 2 Masters 1000, nor has he ever made 6 finals in a row. Cilic won his only Slam without facing Nadal, with 2014 Federer at the USO and Nishikori waiting in the final. Who said that prime Medvedev (second half of 2019) could not have won USO 2014 with that draw? In fact, with the years to come, and in historical perspecrive, I think Medvedev will be considered a far tougher rival than Cilic, as Cilic merely won 1 Slam while Medvedev is a potential ATG.
Medvedev had only won Cincy at that point. That he would continue his run into Shanghai wasn't known at the time. So we cannot retrospectively apply it to call Medvedev the stronger opponent. As things stood when he reached the USO final, he had one masters final and a win and while that is great, that cannot compare to Cilic already being a slam winner when he reached the AO final in 2018.
 
Nadal played this match without serve at all (his serve was extremely weak during most of 2018) and still somehow won the third set. Even though Cilic ended up winning the match but he again showed mental weakness, like he usually does. Even in the fifth set it took him lots of break points until the broke an injured Nadal.

As for the final, the first and fifth sets were total beatdowns. Cilic did well to win 2 sets, but Federer owned him mentally, and once he started playing a bit better in the fifth set Cilic went down really fast. Medvedev on the other hand was mentally strong during the whole tournament in USO 2019, including the final. Even in the fifth set he fought until the last point. If you rewatch the last game you will see Med didn't really do anything wrong in it, Nadal had to go for his shots and win every point himself. So I definitely rate Med's performance higher than Cilic's.
You're talking about how the MATCHES panned out. That doesn't say much about who was the tougher opponent. As said above to Sport, Cilic already had the experience of having been in slam finals, had won before too. So he was certainly a strong opponent, however you want to spin it, and stronger than somebody playing his first slam final.
 
You're talking about how the MATCHES panned out. That doesn't say much about who was the tougher opponent. As said above to Sport, Cilic already had the experience of having been in slam finals, had won before too. So he was certainly a strong opponent, however you want to spin it, and stronger than somebody playing his first slam final.
I don't get all that talk about "first slam final". So Del Potro was a weak opponent in USO 2009 final? Or we can take it farther...Federer, Nadal and Djokovic were all weak opponents in their first slam finals? I never had the impression Federer fans thought of Djokovic as of a weak opponent in USO 2007. Who was a tougher opponent should be based on how they played in their matches, not based on ideas like "it is impossible to play well in your first slam final".
 
I don't get all that talk about "first slam final". So Del Potro was a weak opponent in USO 2009 final? Or we can take it farther...Federer, Nadal and Djokovic were all weak opponents in their first slam finals? I never had the impression Federer fans thought of Djokovic as of a weak opponent in USO 2007. Who was a tougher opponent should be based on how they played in their matches, not based on ideas like "it is impossible to play well in your first slam final".
I didn't say an opponent in his first slam final is WEAK, I did say and maintain that an opponent who already has the experience of winning a slam(s) is stronger. And Cilic hit right through Fed when he won that first slam.

Also, Fedal won their first slam finals and Medvedev didn't. He may or may not be a future great but it is premature to start rating him above Cilic or Delpo and Fedalovic simply don't have to be brought into the conversation.
 
I didn't say an opponent in his first slam final is WEAK, I did say and maintain that an opponent who already has the experience of winning a slam(s) is stronger. And Cilic hit right through Fed when he won that first slam.

Also, Fedal won their first slam finals and Medvedev didn't. He may or may not be a future great but it is premature to start rating him above Cilic or Delpo and Fedalovic simply don't have to be brought into the conversation.
Experience doesn't give anything. I rate players by how they play in a specific match. Some players keep playing bad even in their 10th final. Murray is a great example.

If experience would guarantee you will play better next time then we have to agree Cilic was also an extremely dangerous opponent in Wimbledon 2017 final.
 
Experience doesn't give anything. I rate players by how they play in a specific match. Some players keep playing bad even in their 10th final. Murray is a great example.

If experience would guarantee you will play better next time then we have to agree Cilic was also an extremely dangerous opponent in Wimbledon 2017 final.
Fine, I don't mind that as long as you or other Nadal fans will therefore also accept that Baghdatis 06, Gonzalez 07 or Roddick 04/09 were tough opponents, Roddick in particular being tougher than either Medvedev or Cilic. You can't have it both ways.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
I never had the impression Federer fans thought of Djokovic as of a weak opponent in USO 2007. .
Then you would be mistaken. Though Djokovic had beaten Fed in a barn burner the month previously, he was already retiring from matches with "exhaustion" and was totally unproven in long matches. He quit when the going got tough in 2007 (and continued to do so for several years thereafter). The 2007 USO final had Fed as the overwhelming favorite because of Djoker's known fitness issues at the time. I regarded him as a moderately weak opponent in 2007 in slams. I regarded Del Po in 2009 as a far weaker opponent, but we all know what happened there.

In any case, the Djokovic of 2007 is light years away from the 2011 or 2015 edition.
 

BGod

Legend
Medvedev could turn out to be a blip. Hope people realize that's very much a possibility.

Zverev held 3 of 9 Masters and won WTF last year. This year he made 1 Masters Final and made no improvement at Slams.
 
Fine, I don't mind that as long as you or other Nadal fans will therefore also accept that Baghdatis 06, Gonzalez 07 or Roddick 04/09 were tough opponents, Roddick in particular being tougher than either Medvedev or Cilic. You can't have it both ways.
My point is that everything should be based on the level of play, not on the number of finals the player reached before. And I never said the opponents you mentioned were weak.
 
Then you would be mistaken. Though Djokovic had beaten Fed in a barn burner the month previously, he was already retiring from matches with "exhaustion" and was totally unproven in long matches. He quit when the going got tough in 2007 (and continued to do so for several years thereafter). The 2007 USO final had Fed as the overwhelming favorite because of Djoker's known fitness issues at the time. I regarded him as a moderately weak opponent in 2007 in slams. I regarded Del Po in 2009 as a far weaker opponent, but we all know what happened there.

In any case, the Djokovic of 2007 is light years away from the 2011 or 2015 edition.
Fair enough.
 
Medvedev could turn out to be a blip. Hope people realize that's very much a possibility.

Zverev held 3 of 9 Masters and won WTF last year. This year he made 1 Masters Final and made no improvement at Slams.
And? Zverev playing bad this year doesn't mean he wasn't a strong player when he won that masters or WTF. He used to play very well and deserved to win these titles.
 

mightyjeditribble

Hall of Fame
Medvedev could turn out to be a blip. Hope people realize that's very much a possibility.

Zverev held 3 of 9 Masters and won WTF last year. This year he made 1 Masters Final and made no improvement at Slams.
Absolutely possible. But he has been very impressive recently, with a consistent and sustained run that we hadn't really seen from the NextGen so far. He'll have some dips undoubtedly. But there are more and more signs that there are more and more players who can give the Big 3 a run for their money. Even at slams. Djoko and Nadal can still threaten, no doubt. But next year might be the last year that they will be considered the favourites - possibly even Nadal at RG. :O

Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk
 

mightyjeditribble

Hall of Fame
As for the thread, wish people would stop with the GOAT talk. It's very unlikely that any one of the three will end their career as undisputed GOAT. I think there would need to be at least 2-3 slams more in order for one to surpass another. Even as things are now, as a Fed fan I can't put him above Nadal. Neither could I put Nadal above Fed if he got to 21 or 22. They both have their own amazing achievements. Same for Djokovic, assuming he wins at least 1-2 more.

Three goats.



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ark_28

Legend
Yes, facing Medvedev in the USO final, the most in form player post-Wimbledon with 6 consecutive finals, "a measure of luck". Because facing Federer (who has not won the USO since 2008) would be tougher no?

Also, you forgot to mention that Nadal faced Del Potro in the USO 2017, the same opponent Djokovic had in the USO 2018 final. Del Potro is a solid rival.
Also Nadal faced Del Potro in 2017 tournament after Del Po had already dispatched Federer in the quarter finals
 
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