I think analysts should start putting more value on the nr.1 ranking and not trying to earn money to please fans and media hype about the slams.
Nadal close to surpassing Federer's time in the top 2
- Thread starter timnz
- Start date
I think analysts should start putting more value on the nr.1 ranking and not trying to earn money to please fans and media hype about the slams.
Yes, Nadal has been abysmal at W the last three years but Djokovic has underperformed at the USO on hc which is clearly his best surface. Nadal should not be leading the h2h vs Djokovic at the USO.
And yes I know Nadal leads the h2h vs Federer at the AO. That too is cringeworthy.
This just proves how useless h2h is. Roddick leads Djokovic lol.
Also Davy 6-1 vs Rafa on HC. The HC great that Davy is
. It's not the problem that Davy leads. But h2h is just skewed, Davy totally owns, also 7 matches is quite a large sample size too. It's not like it's 2-1.
Also Davy is a lesser player, which is much worse.
If you were a pro, would you rather have a losing h2h vs Federer or Davy?
.So, let me think. Only Fed can beat me or Davy can beat me. Meaning If Davy can beat me, all guys above Davy are better than me.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Number 1 is so underrated in TTW.
It is the same as saying no one values consistency on a day in day out manner.
It is the same as saying no one values consistency on a day in day out manner.
I got them from a TMF post. I have asked TMF where got his figures from.
D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
so Fed is better than Nadal even at being the second?
lol.... fartobrina must be eating her socks right now!!!
lol.... fartobrina must be eating her socks right now!!!
It's not h2h at USO that is the problem for Nole, but only 1 USO title.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Yup, thats the difference between a champion and pigeon
D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
to be honest i dont even care for Fed, but to see Nardines rolling on the floor in spasm of anger for their Raymond Poulidor getting owned in medieval style is just hilarious
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
That may be so but in any slam battle between Novak and Nadal if I am betting my house I go with Nadal.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Yes, Nadal has been abysmal at W the last three years but Djokovic has underperformed at the USO on hc which is clearly his best surface. Nadal should not be leading the h2h vs Djokovic at the USO.
Yeah but if you look at both hard court slams, then it's a tie 2-2. And that matters even less in the face of hard court slams won where Djoko leads 5-3.
I do agree, however, that Djoko has underperformed at USO. 1 out of 5 finals won is a really ugly stat for a hard court player of Djoko's caliber. Not sure what went wrong there but I would say this will go down as Djoko's main career disappointment (even worse than RG as noone has ever beaten Nadal in an RG final anyway).
SLD76
G.O.A.T.
No. It's called nadal consistently dominates clay..so much so that when the weaker part of the tour for him comes up, he has enough points to stay number 2. It's a reverse Sampras. Sampras needed his grass and hc points to keep him afloat because he was weak on clay.
If nadal had been stronger off clay, Federer would not have broken pete's record at number 1
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
That will never happen. It will always be mostly about the slams.
chjtennis
G.O.A.T.
I guess we all here are just lazy. We think showing up for work 3 days a weak and own is special. Then you have guys who grind day in day out every day even when sick and tired. Sure, they maybe aren't 100% every day, but they are 99% every day never missing. The grinders.
Ironically Rafa is called the grinder, that is totally wrong. Federer is the real grinder here.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
I can't wait for them to meet in a slam again off clay! It happened in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 but not in 2014. Bring it back!!!!
ETA: hey maybe in AO semi now that Nadal is #3...
You don't know what people will value in the future. Consistency is very important everywhere, not just in tennis.
But, I guess, Nadal was nr.2 so long and we can argue Pete would be nr.2 more too with Fed around, so I think they take notice of this.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
This just proves how useless h2h is. Roddick leads Djokovic lol.
Also Davy 6-1 vs Rafa on HC. The HC great that Davy is
It's not the problem that Davy leads. But h2h is just skewed, Davy totally owns, also 7 matches is quite a large sample size too. It's not like it's 2-1.
Also Davy is a lesser player, which is much worse.
If you were a pro, would you rather have a losing h2h vs Federer or Davy?
So, let me think. Only Fed can beat me or Davy can beat me. Meaning If Davy can beat me, all guys above Davy are better than me.
Seriously, imo when Nadal haters use the theory that Davydenko is better than Nadal because Davy leads the h2h, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Number one, they have never met at the slams where it matters most and number two, Davydenko is not Nadal's main rival so who cares.
That argument is desperation by the Fed-lovers/Nadal-haters imo (sorry Fed fans.) Seriously, you are not doing yourself any favors with that argument.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Really cc0? So you obviously don't agree with those consider the Rafole rivalry as being 50/50 every time they play?
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Seriously, imo when Nadal haters use the theory that Davydenko is better than Nadal because Davy leads the h2h, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Number one, they have never met at the slams where it matters most and number two, Davydenko is not Nadal's main rival so who cares.
That argument is desperation by the Fed-lovers/Nadal-haters imo (sorry Fed fans.) Seriously, you are not doing yourself any favors with that argument.
Davy is definetly a superior player to nadal, more talented and has a better career. Look at the h2h wich tells the whole story.
This means nadal is out of the goat discussion, davy replaces him!
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Give it a rest.
Reminds you of another poster on here eh cco? :wink:
SLD76
G.O.A.T.
Not injury, just weaker off clay.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, the Djokovic-Nadal rivalry is a good one even though their styles have a lot of similarities (Chico would love that comment!) It will be interesting to see what happens between them moving forward in off-clay slams.
If we reverse and make Fed 25 and Rafa and Nole 30 and 31 I bet everything on Federer at any event
.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Head to head is interesting to analyze a rivalry between 2 players. It is never a substitute for achievement. If a player loses x times to another player at a slam but still ends up with more titles overall, then that player is the best at that slam regardless of who he lost to when he lost. For instance, Nadal beating Fed at AO 3 times doesn't make him a better AO player than Fed. 4-1 Fed in titles is what matters in the end.
Give it a rest.
Maybe for you, but I'm open minded, there is at least a chance that I can change my mind
. You are gone though.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Exactly. You nailed it and thats what we are trying to say.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, their match-up is a tight one and you are never sure exactly how it will go (unless it is on indoor hc) but I am only saying that if somebody said I HAD to bet my house on their slam outcome based on their slam h2h to date I would have a hard time going with Djokovic. Now, that may change in the future.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
In Roland Garros yes, Nadal is the clear favourite, but at AO and Wimbledon I would bet my life on Djokovic. US Open is a tougher (considering their history there) one but I would give nole the edge there also cause of HC, 60/40, but it would be harder to bet something big on Nole there.
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cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
So would you bet your house on Nadal winning any Slam match against anyone?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
What happened to you?
Yes, I agree with this post.
I think vero's a great poster and I always enjoy reading her posts. Very fair and objective(though admittedly not always fair to Fed :wink
.Peak Fed, Nole are safe bet vs Rafa on any surface, yes even on clay.
Those guys have higher peaks everywhere. When they are on, they can't miss.
I mean Fed bageled Kuerten, Rafa on clay for gods sake. Rafa didn't win a set off peak Nole on clay.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Who is anyone? Federer, Djokovic and Murray? If so in a slam final, yes.
I would say that Nadal vs Murray in any slam final on any surface--Nadal
Nadal vs Federer--Nadal except maybe at Wimbledon these days.
Nadal vs Djokovic--Very slight edge to Djokovic at AO, Wimbledon is a draw if Nadal could make it to the final stage, everywhere else--Nadal.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
No, I just meant any single player irrespective of ranking.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
I think vero's a great poster and I always enjoy reading her posts. Very fair and objective(though admittedly not always fair to Fed :wink
Have you seen her posts since the WTF SF? She was on a rampage there for a while. I think she has toned it down again because the hammer has been out.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
It can't be Laver. He played on two different surfaces for his Grand Slam, not 3.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
NO. I am talking about slam finals. He hasn't been able to make it past nobodies at W the past three years.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
What are you talking about? That has clearly not been the case.
How can somebody take that comment seriously.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Ah, ok. I thought you were talking about slam matches in general, not specifically slam finals.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
I think you forgot 2011.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
2011 was almost four years ago!
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
What happened to you?
Yes, I agree with this post.
People only give me credit when I'm being objective about their favorite player
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
2011 Uso was 3 years ago. At AO and Wimb, Novak has been the better player and would have won had they faced each other.
It is not as bad as we think.
The 2013 loss was the blip.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
that's putting it extremely mildly for anyone who's read her posts since the withdrawal (and in general, but it's been far worse the past week)I think vero's a great poster and I always enjoy reading her posts. Very fair and objective(though admittedly not always fair to Fed :wink
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