Nadal close to surpassing Federer's time in the top 2

[veroniquem]

I think vero's a great poster and I always enjoy reading her posts. Very fair and objective(though admittedly not always fair to Fed :wink.

Thank you my friend. You're making me blush
I usually attempt to be fair about stats, results, records, that type of stuff.

 

[cknobman]

 

[RF-18]

Who is anyone? Federer, Djokovic and Murray? If so in a slam final, yes.

I would say that Nadal vs Murray in any slam final on any surface--Nadal
Nadal vs Federer--Nadal except maybe at Wimbledon these days.
Nadal vs Djokovic--Very slight edge to Djokovic at AO, Wimbledon is a draw if Nadal could make it to the final stage, everywhere else--Nadal.

The hell is going on here.

Slight edge to Novak on his favourite tournament/surface!? 4-1 in titles vs nadal there and has a win over him in the final. This is not slight, he would be a clear favourite.

Djokovic is a favourite since his breakthrough in 2011 against nadal on any surface in slams EXCEPT clay. The same can be said in other tournaments.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Djokovic would beat Nadal in 4 max at the AO these days.

Nadal would beat Djokovic at RG still, and always will.

Djokovic would beat Nadal at Wimbledon (although this would not be a significant feat, Djoko sucks on grass too, but relatively speaking, he sucks less than Nadal does these days).

Nadal has the edge at USO. Call it heat, wind, whatever you like, Djoko still isn't that great there. Nadal, for whatever reason, has done well there the last few years, particularly against Djokovic.

At no point did I think Nadal would lose their 2010 or 2013 USO matches.

 

[RF-18]

AO: Djokovic Clear favourite
FO: Nadal clear favourite
W: Djokovic favourite
USO: Djokovic slight favourite as Nadal does sursprisingly well there. But still, HC is Djokos fav surface, you can't give nadal the edge. They are 1-1 since 2011 when Djokovic reached his peak.

With how Djokovic has developed and coming out as a totally different player in 2011, he simply is a better tennis player than nadal. When Nole goes into a match except clay against him, nadals main goal is to prevent djokovic from reaching his high level and consistency, if he is not able to do this, djokovic wipes the floor with him in seconds and nadal knows it. And nadal has indeed done these things quite well, but djokovic has still come out from the matches as the winner majority of the times since their peaks/primes/whatever you wanna call it faced eachother in 2011.

 

[cc0509]

RF-18;8883619The hell is going on here.

Slight edge to Novak on his favourite tournament/surface!? 4-1 in titles vs nadal there and has a win over him in the final. This is not slight, he would be a clear favourite.

I guess you must have missed the AO 2012 final where it took "the clear favorite" Djokovic six hours to beat Nadal. :???:

Djokovic is a favourite since his breakthrough in 2011 against nadal on any surface in slams EXCEPT clay. The same can be said in other tournaments

.

Djokovic might be the clear favorite since 2011 over Nadal in slams but he sure has failed to get the job done after 2011 vs Nadal in slams.

 

[RF-18]

Before you attack me on the nadal 2011 prime thing. Just take a look at this:

He made it to the final of 4 masters in the beginnig of the year, followed up with three consecutive GS finals. This guy could have completed three slams in a year and also one more in the beginning 2012 if peak djokovic hadn't turned up.

This was an incredibly good nadal in 2011 and you know it. He has never done something like that or been that consistent for a whole year, if my memory isn't failing

 

[veroniquem]

The USO is a tricky situation. Yes Nadal has 2 titles and Djoko has 1 BUT one of the titles happened during Djoko's worst season, a season when he didn't win a single tier 1 event (the only time it happened since he became a top player). It's also an event where he has 5 finals overall vs 3 for Nadal. So imo any person who claims to be able to give a massive edge to either of the 2 is bluffing.
Anything could happen depending on their respective form of the moment.
+ they have other things to worry about than each other (Nadal has had to skip half of the last 4 USO due to physical issues and Djoko stills seems to whither away when weather is muggy or stormy and with global warming, the weather is not likely to get less hectic in storm prone NY in September any time soon!!)

 

[BHud]

Yippee! Another stat just reconfirming that Rafool is the best #2 man of all-time. He has surpassed Andre as best passenger.

 

[reaper]

With all of the above you wonder how Nadal has won 3 of the past 8 slams to Djokovic's 2, despite Nadal being MIA from 2 of those tournaments. Is there a person alive who thinks Nadal wouldn't have beaten Nishikori in the USO semi last year, a tournament that was practically gift wrapped for Djokovic.

 

[veroniquem]

With all of the above you wonder how Nadal has won 3 of the past 8 slams to Djokovic's 2, despite Nadal being MIA from 2 of those tournaments. Is there a person alive who thinks Nadal wouldn't have beaten Nishikori in the USO semi last year, a tournament that was practically gift wrapped for Djokovic.

2 of the 3 were RGs. Nadal at RG is a different animal.
I agree that his summer hard 2013 was (gasp, wot? ) but it was also pretty unique. I can't remember another summer when he played at such a level including in 2011 when somebody here clains that his level was "most excellent" (but when he botched both summer masters before USO). So there is no telling whether Nadal can reproduce such a high level in 2015. I hope he can but it isn't a given by any means.

 

[Mr.Snrub]

Djokovic's skill at AO has been drastically overrated. If he didn't get so lucky his results there wouldn't be much better than at the USO

2012: Almost beaten by Murray. Should have lost to Nadal
2013: Almost beaten by Wawrinka. Joke draw otherwise
2014: Luck runs out and Wawrinka beats him

 

[veroniquem]

Same for AO. I see people claim: of course adv Djoko, of course adv Nadal. Give me a break. They've only played there once and it took like 6 hours +.
How would you know? No way to tell other than maybe current form once event starts.

 

[Djokovic2011]

.

Djokovic might be the clear favorite since 2011 over Nadal in slams but he sure has failed to get the job done after 2011 vs Nadal in slams.

But again cc0, 3 of those 4 matches since the 2012 AO have been at RG where Nadal's close to unbeatable and where you yourself have said you never expect Nole to win anyway. :|

 

[Djokovic2011]

Djokovic's skill at AO has been drastically overrated. If he didn't get so lucky his results there wouldn't be much better than at the USO

2012: Almost beaten by Murray. Should have lost to Nadal
2013: Almost beaten by Wawrinka. Joke draw otherwise
2014: Luck runs out and Wawrinka beats him

 

[cc0509]

Same for AO. I see people claim: of course adv Djoko, of course adv Nadal. Give me a break. They've only played there once and it took like 6 hours +.
How would you know? No way to tell other than maybe current form once event starts.

Right. Yet some people here are saying that Djokovic is the clear favorite when the last and only time they played at the AO vs each other it took Djokovic six hours to beat Nadal. The fact that Djokovic has 4 AOs to Nadal's 1 does not mean much. It is more about match-ups and these two have a tight match-up on all surfaces generally.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Djokovic would beat Nadal in 4 max at the AO these days.

Nadal would beat Djokovic at RG still, and always will.

Djokovic would beat Nadal at Wimbledon (although this would not be a significant feat, Djoko sucks on grass too, but relatively speaking, he sucks less than Nadal does these days).

Nadal has the edge at USO. Call it heat, wind, whatever you like, Djoko still isn't that great there. Nadal, for whatever reason, has done well there the last few years, particularly against Djokovic.

At no point did I think Nadal would lose their 2010 or 2013 USO matches.

Not true at all. It's his weakest surface and the one he feels less comfortable on but I really think he's a better grass courter than most people give him credit for. You don't ever win 2 Wimbledon titles by "sucking on grass".

 

[cc0509]

But again cc0, 3 of those 4 matches since the 2012 AO have been at RG where Nadal's close to unbeatable and where you yourself have said you never expect Nole to win anyway. :|

So? What about their six hour battle at Novak's best slam, the AO? Don't you think Djokovic should have put Nadal away much easier at his best slam?

 

[Djokovic2011]

So? What about their six hour battle at Novak's best slam, the AO? Don't you think Djokovic should have put Nadal away much easier at his best slam?

IIRC he was a couple of points away from winning the match in 4 so yes, he should really have put Nadal away easier.

 

[veroniquem]

But again cc0, 3 of those 4 matches since the 2012 AO have been at RG where Nadal's close to unbeatable and where you yourself have said you never expect Nole to win anyway. :|

The irritating thing is not even that, it's the fact they insist on leaving 2011 out because, you know, Djoko was in such great form that it shouldn't count. That is quite extravagant. Then let's forget about 2013 because Nadal was in oustanding form too. And then what? That's ridiculous.

The true stat is: careerwise in slams:
Head to head: 9-3 Nadal divided as follows:
clay: 6-0 Nadal
hard: 2-2
Grass: 1-1

(Basically a tie except for clay)

Headtohead before 2011 (before Djoko's 1st prime year):
clay: 3-0 Nadal
hard: 1-0 Nadal
grass: 1-0 Nadal

Djoko didn't win a single match! and that's where you can tell that 2011 constituted a power shift between the 2 on other surfaces than clay because from 2011 onwards it became:
clay: 3-0 Nadal (no change)
hard: 2-1 Djoko
grass: 1-0 Djoko

In terms of slam titles won, it's (careerwise)
clay: 9-0 Nadal
hard: 5-3 Djoko
grass: 2-2

Before 2011:
clay: 5-0 Nadal
hard: 2-1 Nadal
grass: 2-0 Nadal

The power shift is quite striking there too on hard and grass:
From 2011:
clay: 4-0 Nadal
hard: 4-1 Djoko
grass: 2-0 Djoko




What does that mean? That means that Nadal has won 9 out of the last 10 RG (90% haaaaa, 100% out of the last 5). It also means that Djoko has won 6 out of the last 12 slams played off clay (50%) and Nadal 1 (8.3%)

Those are the facts, trolling aside.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Not true at all. It's his weakest surface and the one he feels less comfortable on but I really think he's a better grass courter than most people give him credit for. You don't ever win 2 Wimbledon titles by "sucking on grass".

Djokovic doesn't suck on grass. This year it was his best surface actually.

 

[veroniquem]

He sucked on grass until 2010. He made his first W final in 2011 and since then has reached final every year except for 2012 when he lost to Fed in semi.