duaneeo
G.O.A.T.
Are you saying Nadal isn't of the same generation as Nole?
Nadal confirmed AO 2024 comeback
- Thread starter leodevlin
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Are you saying Nadal isn't of the same generation as Nole?
octobrina10
Bionic Poster
The writer drew an incorrect conclusion from Toni's reply to an ElDesmarque (a Spanish sports website) interview question.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
They are one year apart. Each had a 3 Slam season one year apart.
Why is one of these seasons "normal order", but not the other?
Omega_7000
Legend
How many times has Sinner defeated Nadal or Djokovic? If he beats Alcaraz that much, imagine what he will do to Sinner lol
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
While we are at it, how come Federer's own results from are valid, and not part of an abnormal order? Anyone can pick an arbitrary date cutoff and declare any results since then as "inflation".
For example:
Federer/Roddick/Hewitt/Safin/Davydenko/Nalbandian were still NextGens in 2002. 2003 was the first year of the takeover. Therefore, none of the Slams Fed won since 2004 were part of the normal order.
It's a stupid argument that doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny
Federev
G.O.A.T.
What a gift to get Rafa back in good form. Even if it’s only a short while.
Rafael Nadal's proposed comeback date appears to have been confirmed
Toni Nadal has suggested his nephew is progressing well in his comeback and hopes to play at the Australian Open in January.www.tennis365.com
I know it's a tall order but If he manages to win AO 2024 and RG 2024, things can get interesting again.
I can’t wait.
A man among boys.
duaneeo
G.O.A.T.
2010 is the transition year. Federer began as #1 and won the first slam, and the NextGens took over.
Regardless, even if 2009 is considered the end of the Normal Order, Nadal had earned ATG status with 6 slams (3 different tournaments), #1 ranking, and YE#1 .
Talk about a stupid argument. NextGen Nadal had developed to the point of being #2 and a slam/Masters champion by 2005, and had even beaten Federer at a Masters in 2004. NextGen would Nole be #3 by 2007 and slam champion by 2008. I can also include the progression of many other NextGens during Federer's peak/prime.
Now, let's see you do the same for peak/prime Nole's NextGens.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
Why is Nadal a bigger challenge as a teenager (as he was in 2004-05) than a 24/25 year old Nadal in 2011? What is more impressive? Beating 24/25 year old Fed (2006 Fed) or 18/19 year old Fed (2000 Fed)?
What your post actually shows is the dearth of talent in the early 1980s cohort that allowed Fed to dominate in the 04-07 period. Teenagers Nadal and Djokovic were the ones to take up #2 and #3 in 2007, not Federer's contemporaries. Now this was actually abnormal.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
Nothing is actually confirmed yet. I think Australia is probably to soon for him to be fair.
CoolCoolCool
Hall of Fame
Rafa's team said it would take about 5 months for him to recover and the surgery happened in June, so he should be able to play the AO if everything goes well for him.
Djokovic_is_the_best#1
Bionic Poster
We will see. A brutal tournament for him to return after so long out. He will need a warm up event or 2 to be ready.
It will be good to have in back though for the sport.
duaneeo
G.O.A.T.
I'm still awaiting for you to show the progression of the NextGens of peak/prime Djokovic. In Normal Order tennis, the NextGens end the slam runs of the aging CurrentGens.
octobrina10
Bionic Poster
Rafa's doctors said it will take 5 months to recover after the surgery (on June 2):
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
5 months from June would mean he would be recovered by early November, so theoretically the 2024 AO would be in the cards
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
The immediate problem is that the conception of "generation" in tennis is incredibly flawed to begin with. How many years are even in a generation? How do you define the boundaries of a generation? How do you account for players born in the same year(s) but maturing at different rates?
It's all arbitrary, and one can draw the lines wherever they want to suit their particular agenda.
DogInSpace
Semi-Pro
yeah but after such a break it's not like 5 months pass and he's good to go lol
In my opinion he can try to be in Australia but nobody should expect from him to be even semi competitive and athletic enough.
duaneeo
G.O.A.T.
Just admit it for heavens sakes: That was no progression among the NextGens during Nole's peak/prime. Heck, they couldn't even snag a Masters title!
CoolCoolCool
Hall of Fame
What difference does that make? Rafa or his spokeperson said it on his twitter account, so it counts as Rafa's team saying it. I didn't say they made the diagnosis. You don't have to be so nitpicky about every news that involves Rafa lol.
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jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
The field doesn't consist only of NextGen players. It's harder to beat established ATG players in their prime than green teenagers
Razer
G.O.A.T.
It was a reward by God to Novak (& Rafa) by sending a weak generation of 90s without ATG for their trouble in the beginning of their careers.
And yes, Nole got rewarded more because he was further behind Nadal & Federer in 2010 by being 8 and 15 slams behind, so he chased them mercilessly
Fortune favors the brave, the guy who enjoyed bums in 02-07 to mature without any ATG and won slams in a vacuum eventually suffered
Your man deserved to end up on the losing side. Deal with it.
duaneeo
G.O.A.T.
Nadal became a non-factor after the 2014 clay season, and 90s-borns were beyond being "green teenagers" by then.
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
L4S10s
Hall of Fame
Yup like the greatest mythical tennis player of All time - hypothetical uninjured Ned
If by CGS you mean calendar Grand slam he has never won the Calendar GS in fact he has never even had a shot at it as he has only won Aussie open in 2009 where he then loss to Soderling at RG and then last year he did win first 2 and make Wimbledon S/F before having to withdraw. However, i think vast majority of tennis fans know he was not beating Novak in final even if he had made it.
If you mean career GS i.e all 4slams yes he had achieved that by 2010. However, Novak has won all 4 slams three times which again Rafa has never managed. The fact is he has not beaten Novak off clay for 10 yrs that in itself tells a huge story.
Rafa is an awesome player as is Roger but in grand scheme of things they have fallen just that bit short of Novak and they both know it
If you mean career GS i.e all 4slams yes he had achieved that by 2010. However, Novak has won all 4 slams three times which again Rafa has never managed. The fact is he has not beaten Novak off clay for 10 yrs that in itself tells a huge story.
Rafa is an awesome player as is Roger but in grand scheme of things they have fallen just that bit short of Novak and they both know it
Lauren_Girl'
Hall of Fame
Can't he use a protected ranking? He was still ranked #2 at AO last year. If guys like Delien and Balazc can still play slams with a PR, I don't see why someone like Nadal can't.
Topspin_80
Hall of Fame
You're a cold blooded dude.
You're bursting the bubble of all the folks with reading issues.
LMAO
joshuayuan
Professional
Reclaim his throne from McDonald
duaneeo
G.O.A.T.
Nole winning only 11 slams during his peak/prime (even with the benefit of no strong young guns) wasn't because of the other ATG, but because of Murray (2), Wawrinka (3), Nishikori, and Querrey.
octobrina10
Bionic Poster
Rafa can use a protected ranking (PR) for entry into the main draw, but the PR cannot be used for seeding purposes.
The ATP website:
“What is a protected ranking and who is eligible?
A player may petition the ATP CEO or his designee for an Entry Protection when he is physically injured and does not compete in any tennis event for a minimum period of six months. The written petition must be received within six months of his last tournament.
The Entry Protection shall be a position in the Pepperstone ATP Rankings, as determined by the player's average Pepperstone ATP Rankings position during the first three months of his injury. The Entry Protection shall be for entry into the main draw or qualifying competition or for special exempt consideration. The Entry Protection shall not be used for seeding purposes, Lucky Loser consideration or for entry into the Nitto ATP Finals.
The Entry Protection shall be in effect for either the first nine tournaments that the player competes in using the Entry Protection (excluding wild cards and entries as a Direct Acceptance with his current position in the Pepperstone ATP Rankings) or for the period up to nine months beginning with the first tennis event that the player competes in, whichever occurs first. …”
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Only 11 ? That is such a foolish thing to say.
11 Slams are a lot of Slams considering the 7 finals & 3 SF he lost in his peak was to Nadal (4 times), Murray (2 times), Wawrinka (1 time) and Federer (2 times) who are all better than Roddick/Hewitt/Gonzales/Baghdatis type players, thats why Nole has 11 slams "only" ... lol @ 11 slams only, here 11 is the career of someone like Borg and yet you have the audacity of spewing nonsense. Novak even beat Federer at AO08 and a zoning Tsonga.... So that freakin 12 slams earned before he got to enjoy some so called weak stuffs....
Your Federer won most of his slams in a weak era...... Thats why he was not battle hardened enough to tackle ATGs when they arrived and when the field got tighter due post 07.
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duaneeo
G.O.A.T.
You can trash Roger's contemporaries all you want. It's nothing but your opinion. But it's a fact that peak/prime Djokovic's next generations of players are weak. Simply look at the numbers: 0 slams (only 2 finals!), 0 Masters, and 0 WTFs won from 2011-2016. It couldn't get any easier for Nole than that, more so with Nadal being hampered and absent so often.
But it's also a fact that he won only 11 slams because he suffered 7 losses to players a peak/prime ATG shouldn't lose to...especially on his favorite surface.
And for whatever reason, the tennis gods then gave Nole a 2nd generation of 90s-born NextGens to play with!!
Razer
G.O.A.T.
No Federer's prime being a weak era is not an opinion, it is a well documented opinion by former players like Kuerten, Wilander, Cash, Agassi and many people who said that Fed's era had a talent vacuum and thats why Federer was winning. Roddick, Medvedev are similar players, Hewitt won nothing after 2002, he was past his prime by the time Roger entered his prime. Nalbandian and Safin were not motivated enough to work hard. Blake, Davy and the other inferiors were just target practice for Federer at that time. All this is a well know fact, not an opinion!
03W to 08USO
Federer - 13 slams
Field - 9 slams (27 finals - Out of these only 5 guys made final of a slam multiple times)
Masters in this period ... 13 won by Federer, 12 won by Nadal, 22 won by others
18W to 23USO
Nole 12 slams
Field - 9 slams (27 finals - Out of these 6 guys made final of a slam multiple times)
Masters in this period .... 9 won by Djokovic, 5 won by (federer+nadal) .... 25 won by others
Everyone is wining slams and masters in eras, who is weak here ?
It is 1 generation, not 2nd generation. 90s is 1 generation. Except trolls I've never heard anyone say 4-5 years is a generation. In simple terms a generation is always 10+ ..... players, coaches and all professionals say 10+ is a generation ....Only people like you who never held a racquet in your life (you confessed this a few weeks ago in this forum itself ...remmeber? ) have this ill informed notion of a generation being 4-5 years. Upgrade yourself with realities of life. A generation is minimum 10 years.
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