Nadal destroys two-handed backhands as well

T

thomasferrett

Hall of Fame
Just a thread to remind you that one-handed backhands don't have it especially rough against Nadal, because Nadal destroys two-handed backhands equally.

It is just because Federer is so famous and otherwise successful, that people associate Nadal's backhand destruction with one-handed backhands, and forget that he destroys two-handed backhands as well.

Other than Djokovic, which guys have the best 2hbh's in the entire business?

A lot of people would point to Gulbis and Nishikori.

Yet neither of these two have ever beaten Nadal.

Who else has a world-class 2hbh, rivaling Djokovic's? Murray. He has lost, proportionally, far more matches than even Federer has against Nadal.

If you say 'these guys lose against Nadal for reasons other than their backhands', bear in mind that opens the door for me to say that 'Almagro and Wawrinka lose to Nadal for reasons other than their backhands as well'.
 
Djokovic troubles Nadal not just because of his BH. It is obviously a huge factor, but his overall game works really well. He can pin Nadal on the BH side with his FH or stretch Nadal wide on the FH side using his own inside put FH, something Federer has never been able to do with his so called "GOAT" forehand. Nadal even wins many BH to FH exchanges with Federe, but generally not against Djokovic.
 
zep said:
Djokovic troubles Nadal not just because of his BH. It is obviously a huge factor, but his overall game works really well. He can pin Nadal on the BH side with his FH or stretch Nadal wide on the FH side using his own inside put FH, something Federer has never been able to do with his so called "GOAT" forehand. Nadal even wins many BH to FH exchanges with Federe, but generally not against Djokovic.
Click to expand...

Your bias is seeping through…
 
zep said:
Djokovic troubles Nadal not just because of his BH. It is obviously a huge factor, but his overall game works really well. He can pin Nadal on the BH side with his FH or stretch Nadal wide on the FH side using his own inside put FH, something Federer has never been able to do with his so called "GOAT" forehand. Nadal even wins many BH to FH exchanges with Federe, but generally not against Djokovic.
Click to expand...

post-31074-J-Jonah-Jameson-laughing-gif-S-NWLY.gif
 
MichaelNadal said:
Good point OP. He even does it to Djokovic at times.
Click to expand...

Would you say this if it was about another player?

You would probably act like a cop again and say something about how these threads are tiring and wants just to make people fight.

MichaelNadal :)
 
I think Nadal doesn't really destroy the 2HBH but what he does is destroying the movement (to the left for a right handed player), it gets exhausting after a while, especially for tall players like Berdych, Gulbis, etc
 
tipsa...don'tlikehim! said:
I think Nadal doesn't really destroy the 2HBH but what he does is destroying the movement (to the left for a right handed player), it gets exhausting after a while, especially for tall players like Berdych, Gulbis, etc
Click to expand...

What, so you think it's the same case for the 1hbh, or is he actually destroying the 1hbh?
 
thomasferrett said:
Just a thread to remind you that one-handed backhands don't have it especially rough against Nadal, because Nadal destroys two-handed backhands equally.

It is just because Federer is so famous and otherwise successful, that people associate Nadal's backhand destruction with one-handed backhands, and forget that he destroys two-handed backhands as well.

Other than Djokovic, which guys have the best 2hbh's in the entire business?

A lot of people would point to Gulbis and Nishikori.

Yet neither of these two have ever beaten Nadal.

Who else has a world-class 2hbh, rivaling Djokovic's? Murray. He has lost, proportionally, far more matches than even Federer has against Nadal.

If you say 'these guys lose against Nadal for reasons other than their backhands', bear in mind that opens the door for me to say that 'Almagro and Wawrinka lose to Nadal for reasons other than their backhands as well'.
Click to expand...

I actually think the bolded part is true. Nadal doesn't win solely by breaking down the opponents backhand. He also puts a ton of balls in play, and keeps the opponent on the run, so they can't attack him. He also can crank it up when he needs to with the IO forehand and DTL forehand. All the players you mention can't out rally him (nobody except Djokovic can), which means they have to hit through him which is very difficult.
 
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Nalbandian used to have Nadal's number. Most of Nadal's win over Nalby when Nalby past his prime. Davydenko had Nadal's number as well.

Djokovic is the best player in this category. Nadal will have more advantage with them on Clay, but on hard, not so much.
 
thomasferrett said:
Just a thread to remind you that one-handed backhands don't have it especially rough against Nadal, because Nadal destroys two-handed backhands equally.

It is just because Federer is so famous and otherwise successful, that people associate Nadal's backhand destruction with one-handed backhands, and forget that he destroys two-handed backhands as well.

Other than Djokovic, which guys have the best 2hbh's in the entire business?

A lot of people would point to Gulbis and Nishikori.

Yet neither of these two have ever beaten Nadal.

Who else has a world-class 2hbh, rivaling Djokovic's? Murray. He has lost, proportionally, far more matches than even Federer has against Nadal.

If you say 'these guys lose against Nadal for reasons other than their backhands', bear in mind that opens the door for me to say that 'Almagro and Wawrinka lose to Nadal for reasons other than their backhands as well'.
Click to expand...

There are other reasons a player can lose to Rafael Nadal besides the damage he can to from the forehand wing to the backhand.
 
SpinToWin said:
far from it. Unless you started watching tennis in 2011, but even then your comment shows extreme bias.

Just a short reminder:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6az62bmV5hM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iryUizqJtM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR7do5BFgzA

Try again troll.
Click to expand...

Ha ha why am I not surprised that all three of your videos are from indoor hard courts? I am ready to accept that Federer has a clear advantage over Nadal on indoor hard courts, partly because he is extremely good and partly because Nadal himself is not very good.

Indoor hard courts form only a small percentage of the tour. There are only 2 tournaments worth mentioning now. I was obviously talking about the outdoor surfaces where Nadal leads 22-6. If you think Federer loses to Nadal just because because of his single handed BH you are delusional. It is a major factor but not the only one. Let me point it out to you what Novak does better than Federer against Nadal--

1) Return of serve from both the wings, keeping Nadal uncomfortable on his service games.
2) Inside out FH attacking Nadal's FH. To come out of that exchange Nadal needs his FH DTL working.
3) Top spin FH to Nadal's BH pushing him back and once Novak gets a short reply he pounces on it.
4) Nadal even reads the Federer serve better than the Djokovic serve IMO.
5) Federer has been tactically dumb against Nadal in most of their matches. Initially he thought he could beat Nadal just by playing his best tennis (see his FO 2011 interview). That is not true, he needed to play differently something he failed to do. I have seen him getting passed so many times by Nadal's FH, why not hit the approach shot to BH more?

There are many things Federer could have done differently. Please don't try to label everyone as troll because the person can find fault in Fed's game. :neutral:
 
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zep said:
Ha ha why am I not surprised that all three of your videos are from indoor hard courts? I am ready to accept that Federer has a clear advantage over Nadal on indoor hard courts, partly because he is extremely good and partly because Nadal himself is not very good.

Indoor hard courts form only a small percentage of the tour. There are only 2 tournaments worth mentioning now. I was obviously talking about the outdoor surfaces where Nadal leads 22-6. If you think Federer loses to Nadal just because because of his single handed BH you are delusional. It is a major factor but not the only one. Let me point it out to you what Novak does better than Federer against Nadal--

1) Return of serve from both the wings, keeping Nadal uncomfortable on his service games.
2) Inside out FH attacking Nadal's FH. To come out of that exchange Nadal needs his FH DTL working.
3) Top spin FH to Nadal's BH pushing him back and once Novak gets a short reply he pounces on it.
4) Nadal even reads the Federer serve better than the Djokovic serve IMO.
5) Federer has been tactically dumb against Nadal in most of their matches. Initially he thought he could beat Nadal just by playing his best tennis (see his FO 2011 interview). That is not true, he needed to play differently something he failed to do. I have seen him getting passed so many times by Nadal's FH, why not hit the approach shot to BH more?

There are many things Federer could have done differently. Please don't try to label everyone as troll because the person can find fault in Fed's game. :neutral:
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRqQ78RE49g

Get real. Djokovic's forehand is a joke in comparison to Federer's in his prime. Djokovic has two things which help him beat Nadal.:
1) Awesome return
2) Solid backhand with which he can neutralize Nadal's forehand consistently
 
SpinToWin said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRqQ78RE49g

Get real. Djokovic's forehand is a joke in comparison to Federer's in his prime. Djokovic has two things which help him beat Nadal.:
1) Awesome return
2) Solid backhand with which he can neutralize Nadal's forehand consistently
Click to expand...

Yeah that is exactly the next video I was expecting from you. Probably the only time Federer was able to beat Nadal convincingly outdoors. That one exception does not prove anything when I can post 15+ videos in return. It was a very windy day and Federer adjusted better than Nadal.

What you said is correct but against Nadal Djokovic's forehand works much better than Federer FH because Djokovic knows how to play Nadal better than Federer.

"Djokovic's forehand is a joke in comparison to Federer's in his prime. "
-- LOL and you were accusing me of bias? Joke really? I agree that Fed's was better.
 
zep said:
Yeah that is exactly the next video I was expecting from you. Probably the only time Federer was able to beat Nadal convincingly outdoors. That one exception does not prove anything when I can post 15+ videos in return. It was a very windy day and Federer adjusted better than Nadal.

What you said is correct but against Nadal Djokovic's forehand works much better than Federer FH because Djokovic knows how to play Nadal better than Federer.

"Djokovic's forehand is a joke in comparison to Federer's in his prime. "
-- LOL and you were accusing me of bias? Joke really? I agree that Fed's was better.
Click to expand...

I am not disagreeing with you, but why do you think it is that Djokovic's forehand is better at attacking Nadal's backhand than Federer's forehand?
 
thomasferrett said:
I am not disagreeing with you, but why do you think it is that Djokovic's forehand is better at attacking Nadal's backhand than Federer's forehand?
Click to expand...

I don't know if Djokovic's forehand is better overall at attacking Nadals backhand than Federer is, but I do think Nadal's backhand often throws up loopy high balls that Djokovic can crush with his full western forehand; Federer's eastern forehand isn't quite as good at pummeling the high ball.
 
zep said:
Yeah that is exactly the next video I was expecting from you. Probably the only time Federer was able to beat Nadal convincingly outdoors. That one exception does not prove anything when I can post 15+ videos in return. It was a very windy day and Federer adjusted better than Nadal.

What you said is correct but against Nadal Djokovic's forehand works much better than Federer FH because Djokovic knows how to play Nadal better than Federer.

"Djokovic's forehand is a joke in comparison to Federer's in his prime. "
-- LOL and you were accusing me of bias? Joke really? I agree that Fed's was better.
Click to expand...

Dear oh dear. If you want, post the videos of Federer's defeat. In the vast majority of them you will see Federer doing the damage he is doing with his forehand. Djokovic mostly does the real damage with his backhand. You were saying the following:

zep said:
Djokovic troubles Nadal not just because of his BH. It is obviously a huge factor, but his overall game works really well. He can pin Nadal on the BH side with his FH or stretch Nadal wide on the FH side using his own inside put FH, something Federer has never been able to do with his so called "GOAT" forehand. Nadal even wins many BH to FH exchanges with Federe, but generally not against Djokovic.
Click to expand...

Federer has managed to pin Nadal on his backhand side, the problem is that Nadal is so much better at pinning Federer on his backhand side. Furthermore, Federer wins the majority of pure forehand to backhand exchanges when he is hitting his forehand. You were spouting a lot of nonsense, hence my and others' reactions.

Watch the whole Australien Open 2009 match for the first 4 sets and you may be enlightened.
 
When you talk about Novak its not all about his backhand ofcourse.
His serve is good, his retern is EXCELENT, he has decent mental and physical strenght.He can stay in ralies long enough, he can defend and attack.He is consistent!!!
On all of that add great 2h bh which is controling Rafas spin beter and its enough to beat Rafa very often, more often than anybody else.

Btw, i think when Rafa is playing his apsoult best(some mixture of this newer and agresive Rafa + healty and full of strenght) that he is better than anybody on CLay(by far) and even on HC where only Novak can do a damge by playing perfect match too, plus he is not allowed to choke even once.And whe know that choking is part of players quality, of how good player is.
Not choking is mental strenght and mental strenght has the same valuable as tehnical or pyshical strenght.Novak even had his choke periods during 2011-AO12 finals with Rafa.He was lucky that Rafa was, lets say, unprepared for Nole v2.0.His tacticts were bad, he wasnt agresive enough and was going on BH too much.

I would realy like to see "2013 US open Rafa(rested and full healty)" vs Novak on grass.We saw how it ended on HC and clay :D
 
Not just saying this cause im canadian.
But Milos BH is a serious weapon.Not too many other pros can get there weight positioned on there front leg,driving through the ball.With that kind of power.None.Raonic gets his knees down and the weight transfered it over.
If he wasnt so early in his strokes and flayling at them and lets the ball come to him.He'dd have lots more BH winners.
If nadal hit his two hand BH the same way I hit my TH FH not even god could stop him.Less spin. more drive. and like OUR missile weight transferd to his front foot.Just sayin
2015 the year of the Missile
once he learns to return.and not hit every FH inside out.lol
 
Tennisknowledge99 said:
Nalbandian used to have Nadal's number.
Click to expand...
He had two HC wins in 2007, when Nadal was 21. He was not yet close to dominant on HC a age 21. After than Nalbandian never beat him again. So much for him "having his number".
Davydenko had Nadal's number as well.
Click to expand...
That is 100% true. It's 7/1 on HCs. Davydenko should be coaching all the rest of them on how to beat Nadal on HCs. ;)
 
Gary Duane said:
He had two HC wins in 2007, when Nadal was 21. He was not yet close to dominant on HC a age 21. After than Nalbandian never beat him again. So much for him "having his number".
Click to expand...

Most of nadal's win over Nalby came when Nalby past his prime. After his last best performance in 2007, he declined a lot, plus Nadal was getting mature on hard court. If both of them were in their prime, Nalby would give Nadal a lot of problems.
 
RF-18 said:
Would you say this if it was about another player?

You would probably act like a cop again and say something about how these threads are tiring and wants just to make people fight.

MichaelNadal :)
Click to expand...

Would you be in the phantom zone if you weren't a basic troll?

giphy.gif


:)
 
zep said:
Ha ha why am I not surprised that all three of your videos are from indoor hard courts? I am ready to accept that Federer has a clear advantage over Nadal on indoor hard courts, partly because he is extremely good and partly because Nadal himself is not very good.

Indoor hard courts form only a small percentage of the tour. There are only 2 tournaments worth mentioning now. I was obviously talking about the outdoor surfaces where Nadal leads 22-6. If you think Federer loses to Nadal just because because of his single handed BH you are delusional. It is a major factor but not the only one. Let me point it out to you what Novak does better than Federer against Nadal--

1) Return of serve from both the wings, keeping Nadal uncomfortable on his service games.
2) Inside out FH attacking Nadal's FH. To come out of that exchange Nadal needs his FH DTL working.
3) Top spin FH to Nadal's BH pushing him back and once Novak gets a short reply he pounces on it.
4) Nadal even reads the Federer serve better than the Djokovic serve IMO.
5) Federer has been tactically dumb against Nadal in most of their matches. Initially he thought he could beat Nadal just by playing his best tennis (see his FO 2011 interview). That is not true, he needed to play differently something he failed to do. I have seen him getting passed so many times by Nadal's FH, why not hit the approach shot to BH more?

There are many things Federer could have done differently. Please don't try to label everyone as troll because the person can find fault in Fed's game. :neutral:
Click to expand...

I will add to #5 by saying that every time Fed does play a winning style against Nadal, after he wins a set he goes back to the old mindset thinking he can beat anyone with his normal style. He just never seems to keep his foot on the gas, which is what everyone else that has beat Nadal did (Djoker, Krygios, Rosol, etc.) TBH, he does the same with Djoker, causing him to lose matches he never should have lost.
 
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